Crimewatch,The McCanns

[Vanessa]

i think it's possible that maddie was kidnapped, just like Maria and Ben were. I hope they find these kids. They should be with their parents.

[the truth]

if you have information on the case, give it to the police,
don't read thru evidence that they already have and claim you have proof.

what in heavens name are you talking about?

Have I claimed anything? Nope. and don't tell me what to do. ta

[the truth]

This is hilarious to me because Chuff is the one getting arsey with everyone else for not swallowing everything she says or daring to question some of her points.

Instead of responding with an answer, she throws passive aggressive comments insulting you.

No point engaging on a discussion forum unless you want to actually discuss and not just dictate.

shes not dictating anything, youre being very disingenuous saying that. she just giving her opiniuon and as much evidence and links as she can think of, also she is showing passion for the topic not aggression. totally different things.....maddie mcann and the tax paying brits who part fund this circus, deserve to have all sides looked at and should not be intimidated into silence by you or the money men

[Marsh.]

shes not dictating anything, youre being very disingenuous saying that. she just giving her opiniuon and as much evidence and links as she can think of, also she is showing passion for the topic not aggression. totally different things.....maddie mcann and the tax paying brits who part fund this circus, deserve to have all sides looked at and should not be intimidated into silence by you or the money men

Who said I want her silenced? Don't put words into my mouth.

When I'm personally insulted for daring to question her posts then I take issue with her "I'm right, you're wrong" arrogance.

As she said, she has no interest in discussing anything. She puts everyone into boxes and takes offence if you ask her to elaborate.

[Cherie]

If only people would come off of playing silly quizzes and take a day or 2 to read the police files ,witness statement as thousands of people have, they would see the larger picture, but some folk are more then happy to plod on believe the red tops and not giving a flying one for an innocent child ,as long they are ok ,sod the rest, gladly thats not my attitude or thousands of others, since Crimewatch aired 7 days ago,one group alone that I am in has had 11,000 new members who HAVE read files etc ,and are now also fighting for justice for Maddie


Finally, in a roundabout way you have answered my question as to the purpose of the internet group. To my mind if the group really wanted justice for Maddie they would keep an open mind as to all the possibilities not hinder the search by smearing the McCanns. It seems to me some of these groups are baying for blood and are focussing solely on the McCanns as suspects rather than looking at the bigger picture. People who claim they are going to ring up the police with duff information and people who have done it have no interest at all in Justice for Maddie imo.

[thesheriff443]

what in heavens name are you talking about?

Have I claimed anything? Nope. and don't tell me what to do. ta

of course I will tell people to go to the police if they have information.
and of course you know nothing!

in your previous post you where trying to be a smart arse with the professionals reference, in which you quoted david beckham and the pope.

the simple facts of this case are
there is not enough evidence in this case in that the person/persons responsible for this crime can be traced.

[chuff me dizzy]

[/B]


Finally, in a roundabout way you have answered my question as to the purpose of the internet group. To my mind if the group really wanted justice for Maddie they would keep an open mind as to all the possibilities not hinder the search by smearing the McCanns. It seems to me some of these groups are baying for blood and are focussing solely on the McCanns as suspects rather than looking at the bigger picture. People who claim they are going to ring up the police with duff information and people who have done it have no interest at all in Justice for Maddie imo.

I will ask you the same question I asked Jesus ,how many of these groups are you a member of ,or are you just making it up as you go along and talking blind ?

[Cherie]

I will ask you the same question I asked Jesus ,how many of these groups are you a member of ,or are you just making it up as you go along and talking blind ?

making it up as I go along? in what way am I doing that?

[chuff me dizzy]

Chuff, what do you think actually happened that day in Portugal? I'm not being arsey, I'm genuinely interested.

What i think happened is the same as the Portugese policeman they are now trying to silence, his book is based entirely on the police files ,the things that first sent warning bells flashing for me was
From night one Kate,Gerry claimed the shutters were smashed,they clearly were NOT

The first interview when neither had a tear in sight ,no eye contact

Setting up a search fund" within days (why did they think she was not coming back ? )

The Smith sighting ,now being claimed by SY as a new breakthrough ,its not its 6 years old

Why did Gordon Brown straight away send his spokesman Clarence Mitchell to Pdl ? did they do the same with any other missing child case ?

Why was Yvonne Martin (social worker) get sent away when she went to ask if she could be of help, but was seen talking to McCanns by David Payern who she recognised from a case she had worked on, he clearly saw her, shouted Kate,Gerry over, they went back and told Martin they didnt need her help



Gaspar statements where Leis police were told of paedo tendency in the tapas group ,and the fact Leic police decided to hold onto these statments for 7 months before handing them over to the Portuguese police working on the case

The most telling thing to me and countless others is the dog evidence

The rescheduled trip to Huelva on a bank holiday when everywhere is closed ,to hand out leaflets ,the lost hours and milage they refused to clarify ,the fact Maddies cadaver was in the car boot,which Gerry claimed was seabass? and the statement of a witness who said for days and nights following the Huelva trip McCanns kept the boot lid open

The making a list (with loads of crossing outs) BEFORE they rang the police ,they also deleted phone records too in the time before they rang police

Another ,now proven lie was Tanner witness statement claiming she saw the abductor, SY have dropped that ,so is she going to be charged with perjury?

Lots in Kates book is different to statements were made ,the vile page 129 in the book where Kate talks of "thinking of Maddies perfect,torn genitals" Im sorry but no Mother would think this way never mind put it in print in a book she wrote for her twins

Another damning thing is why did Kate refuse to answer 48 out of 49 police questions ?


Why would a group of intelligent adults not conserve a crime scene? when police arrived they had filled 5a with all Tapas group and Warner staff

I could go on,but I wont ,but everything I have quoted can be found in police files on the case

[Jesus.]

I don't think you've actually answered the question, you've just repeated stuff you posted earlier in the thread.

[chuff me dizzy]

I don't think you've actually answered the question, you've just repeated stuff you posted earlier in the thread.

my reply is to Lee

[Kazanne]

I don't think you've actually answered the question, you've just repeated stuff you posted earlier in the thread.

Jesus,do none of these things make you question what happened to Madeline or do you think it's as cut and dry as an abduction?I think Chuff has put forward some thought provoking questions and I do think people have the right to query their actions.I admire Chuffs passion and I do think she has some very valid points,it certainly made me think.

[chuff me dizzy]

Jesus,do none of these things make you question what happened to Madeline or do you think it's as cut and dry as an abduction?I think Chuff has put forward some thought provoking questions and I do think people have the right to query their actions.I admire Chuffs passion and I do think she has some very valid points,it certainly made me think.

Thank you Kaz Glad someone cares about MADDIE and not the McCanns, for 6 years its all been about THEM, while they spend the money donated on the pretence of it being used to "search" when 87% of it to date has used to fund Gnr Pinochette extradition lawyers( In a child abduction case?) and is used to pay Pr and media advisers(again in a child abduction case ?) and for lawyers to sue everyone who questions their fairytale.the ongoing case in Lisbon courts against Goncarlo Amaral is the 4th time they have tried to ban his book (lost 1st 3 cases,losing this one too) yet there are several other books out there which dispute the Mcs lies, but they have never sued those authors ,but the difference being is Amarals book is FACTS from the police files ,both Pj and Uk

[Cherie]

Thank you Kaz Glad someone cares about MADDIE and not the McCanns, for 6 years its all been about THEM, while they spend the money donated on the pretence of it being used to "search" when 87% of it to date has used to fund Gnr Pinochette extradition lawyers( In a child abduction case?) and is used to pay Pr and media advisers(again in a child abduction case ?) and for lawyers to sue everyone who questions their fairytale.the ongoing case in Lisbon courts against Goncarlo Amaral is the 4th time they have tried to ban his book (lost 1st 3 cases,losing this one too) yet there are several other books out there which dispute the Mcs lies, but they have never sued those authors ,but the difference being is Amarals book is FACTS from the police files ,both Pj and Uk


It's not a question of caring more about one or the other, it is a question of getting to the truth, even if this book does contain the "real! story there obviously isn't enough of a case to bring charges, so innocent until proven guilty. Focussing on the McCanns alleged guilt is detracting from finding Maddie or what happened to her in my view.

[Kizzy]

Thanks for that chuff, it's not hard to believe the fund is being mismanaged at all, it was on the news that not one penny will be made available to Ben Needhams family.
They wish to look into the case again in Greece due to the case of the child found in the gypsy camp.

[chuff me dizzy]

Thanks for that chuff, it's not hard to believe the fund is being mismanaged at all, it was on the news that not one penny will be made available to Ben Needhams family.
They wish to look into the case again in Greece due to the case of the child found in the gypsy camp.

It is not a charity it is a Ltd Co, with Kate,Gerry the 2*who decided where its spent ,it is now used to "Support extended family" is THIS what pensioners and children thought their money was going to be used for ?

[chuff me dizzy]

Maddie abducted 4th May 2007 ,fund up and running by 13th

http://www.mccannfiles.com/id58.html

[Kizzy]

So are they using this as income, as in taking a 'wage' from it?
That is odd!

[chuff me dizzy]

So are they using this as income, as in taking a 'wage' from it?
That is odd!

Kate retired from her job to work on the case ( lol) im not sure,but I would expect she takes a wage ,I will ask if anyone has the last company receipts ,I know on older accounts they even took the money for stamps out of the "search fund"

[chuff me dizzy]

In October 2007 it leaked that they has used the money to pay the mortgage


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-490415/Row-McCanns-use-1million-Madeleine-fund-pay-mortgage.html

[Cherie]

Kate retired from her job to work on the case ( lol) im not sure,but I would expect she takes a wage ,I will ask if anyone has the last company receipts ,I know on older accounts they even took the money for stamps out of the "search fund"


So you don't know for sure, but hey lets just spread it round anyway.

So what are we saying now that they accidentally killed Maddie and seized on this as an opportunity to start a fund so that Kate could give up her job?

[Lee.]

What i think happened is the same as the Portugese policeman they are now trying to silence, his book is based entirely on the police files ,the things that first sent warning bells flashing for me was
From night one Kate,Gerry claimed the shutters were smashed,they clearly were NOT

The first interview when neither had a tear in sight ,no eye contact

Setting up a search fund" within days (why did they think she was not coming back ? )

The Smith sighting ,now being claimed by SY as a new breakthrough ,its not its 6 years old

Why did Gordon Brown straight away send his spokesman Clarence Mitchell to Pdl ? did they do the same with any other missing child case ?

Why was Yvonne Martin (social worker) get sent away when she went to ask if she could be of help, but was seen talking to McCanns by David Payern who she recognised from a case she had worked on, he clearly saw her, shouted Kate,Gerry over, they went back and told Martin they didnt need her help



Gaspar statements where Leis police were told of paedo tendency in the tapas group ,and the fact Leic police decided to hold onto these statments for 7 months before handing them over to the Portuguese police working on the case

The most telling thing to me and countless others is the dog evidence

The rescheduled trip to Huelva on a bank holiday when everywhere is closed ,to hand out leaflets ,the lost hours and milage they refused to clarify ,the fact Maddies cadaver was in the car boot,which Gerry claimed was seabass? and the statement of a witness who said for days and nights following the Huelva trip McCanns kept the boot lid open

The making a list (with loads of crossing outs) BEFORE they rang the police ,they also deleted phone records too in the time before they rang police

Another ,now proven lie was Tanner witness statement claiming she saw the abductor, SY have dropped that ,so is she going to be charged with perjury?

Lots in Kates book is different to statements were made ,the vile page 129 in the book where Kate talks of "thinking of Maddies perfect,torn genitals" Im sorry but no Mother would think this way never mind put it in print in a book she wrote for her twins

Another damning thing is why did Kate refuse to answer 48 out of 49 police questions ?


Why would a group of intelligent adults not conserve a crime scene? when police arrived they had filled 5a with all Tapas group and Warner staff

I could go on,but I wont ,but everything I have quoted can be found in police files on the case


Yes, but what do you personally think happened on the day Madeleine disappeared? What was the series of events?

[Josy]

In October 2007 it leaked that they has used the money to pay the mortgage


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-490415/Row-McCanns-use-1million-Madeleine-fund-pay-mortgage.html

It states on that article that the mortgage payments were met by another fund

That has been met by a separate fund, using donations from wealthy benefactors including Sir Richard Branson.


I don't see a problem with it tbh if that fund was set up solely to help them with living costs because they were both on unpaid leave from work.

[Kizzy]

Yes, but what do you personally think happened on the day Madeleine disappeared? What was the series of events?

How could anyone know that?

[Lee.]

How could anyone know that?

I'm not saying chuff knows, I'm asking her what she thinks happened that day. She's obviously done enough research of the "facts" to have come up with a theory?

[AnnieK]

How could anyone know that?

This answers the question....no one really knows what happened, everything is supposition.

[Cherie]

This answers the question....no one really knows what happened, everything is supposition.

32 pages and you have summed it up in one sentence Annie.

[Kizzy]

Of course it's supposition, this is a discussion forum not a courtroom, although with the dogmatism you would think someone was on trial.

[Lee.]

Of course it's supposition, this is a discussion forum not a courtroom, although with the dogmatism you would think someone was on trial.

Yeah.. The McCanns :idc:

[AnnieK]

Yeah.. The McCanns :idc:

You beat me to it Lee.

[AnnieK]

Of course it's supposition, this is a discussion forum not a courtroom, although with the dogmatism you would think someone was on trial.

Who is it that you think is being dogmatic here?

[chuff me dizzy]

Yes, but what do you personally think happened on the day Madeleine disappeared? What was the series of events?

Im sorry, I was explaining what leads to my opinion by compiling a list of facts ,My OPINION is ,Maddie died the 2nd May ,accidently,Amaral believes ,and i agree with his theory, she was drugged and woke up ,climbed on the sofa to look out of window to see if she could see her parents and fell behind ,this accounts for the blood particals found behind and explains why Kate washed the curtains
I also think they hid her body in the wardrobe ,the reasons cadaver dogs found scent in them ,then cleaned 5a thinking they had got rid of all evidence ,but they didnt
I think the 3rd of May was spent concocting alibis and the night time they made sure tapas staff saw them keep checking on the children ,
I think when Smiths saw Gerry carrying Maddie body he was taking it to a safe place, until it was moved finally 26 days after they hired the car on the trip to Huelva ,the body fluids found in hire car was consistent with a body being kept in a freezer or very cold fridge

[Niamh.]

Kate washed the curtains in the apartment, really?

Why would they hide her body if she died accidentally though? Why not just tell the truth? I mean is it because they left her alone? and if so isn't your child having been abducted because you left her alone just as bad as your child having an accident and dying because you left them alone?

[Lee.]

Madeleine was seen at the hotel pool on the 3rd may?

[AnnieK]

Yeah I thought she been seen on the day?

[Niamh.]

For the record I do think there's something dodgy about the McCanns story but that accidental death doesn't make alot of sense to me

[Kizzy]

Who is it that you think is being dogmatic here?

Objection! leading the witness...
:joker: let's not start all this 'he said she said' it's very boring.
Some just have a different perception than is currently the 'norm' can that not just be accepted?

[Lee.]

Yeah I thought she been seen on the day?

So did I.. Although I think there were claims that the photos that had been taken on the day had been photoshopped to make it look like Madeleine was there..

But that aside, I think witnesses claimed to have seen her on the day.

[AnnieK]

Objection! leading the witness...
:joker: let's not start all this 'he said she said' it's very boring.
Some just have a different perception than is currently the 'norm' can that not just be accepted?

I wasn't starting anything, I was simply asking the question. Your response about dogmatism was quite patronising so I was simply querying who you were talking about, that's all. Of course I can accept different perceptions..

[chuff me dizzy]

So did I.. Although I think there were claims that the photos that had been taken on the day had been photoshopped to make it look like Madeleine was there..

But that aside, I think witnesses claimed to have seen her on the day.

Jane Tanner little girl and Maddie were very similar in looks and same age ...the creche records are all wrong too

[Lee.]

Jane Tanner little girl and Maddie were very similar in looks and same age ...the creche records are all wrong too

So the crèche staff were in on it too?? What about the photos that were taken of Madeleine on that day?

[chuff me dizzy]

Kate washed the curtains in the apartment, really?

Why would they hide her body if she died accidentally though? Why not just tell the truth? I mean is it because they left her alone? and if so isn't your child having been abducted because you left her alone just as bad as your child having an accident and dying because you left them alone?

IMO (And Im expecting to get shot down for it as per usual,but past caring to be honest) I dont think they were left as often as they say ,IMO they left them that night and made sure lots of witnesses that they had, because without admitting neglect they could not claim abduction

[Kizzy]

I wasn't starting anything, I was simply asking the question. Your response about dogmatism was quite patronising so I was simply querying who you were talking about, that's all. Of course I can accept different perceptions..

You can take exception to my choice of words if you wish, that is not the context in which that was meant however.
As I've said before it's better to remain objective.

[chuff me dizzy]

So the crèche staff were in on it too?? What about the photos that were taken of Madeleine on that day?

No of course not ,Im not saying that ,the photos as you say were not genuine

[Niamh.]

IMO (And Im expecting to get shot down for it as per usual,but past caring to be honest) I dont think they were left as often as they say ,IMO they left them that night and made sure lots of witnesses that they had, because without admitting neglect they could not claim abduction

I'm not looking to shoot you down Chuff, I'm genuinely curious about the case and about what might have happened :love:

But why do you think they wanted to claim abduction if she died accidentally? I don't get the reasoning

[Lee.]

Im sorry, I was explaining what leads to my opinion by compiling a list of facts ,My OPINION is ,Maddie died the 2nd May ,accidently,Amaral believes ,and i agree with his theory, she was drugged and woke up ,climbed on the sofa to look out of window to see if she could see her parents and fell behind ,this accounts for the blood particals found behind and explains why Kate washed the curtains
I also think they hid her body in the wardrobe ,the reasons cadaver dogs found scent in them ,then cleaned 5a thinking they had got rid of all evidence ,but they didnt
I think the 3rd of May was spent concocting alibis and the night time they made sure tapas staff saw them keep checking on the children ,
I think when Smiths saw Gerry carrying Maddie body he was taking it to a safe place, until it was moved finally 26 days after they hired the car on the trip to Huelva ,the body fluids found in hire car was consistent with a body being kept in a freezer or very cold fridge

I'm sorry.. But I can't believe this was how it happened. Not a word of it.

I mean... Where would somebody first of all find somebody willing to loan Gerry a freezer to hide his dead daughter.. Then how exactly would they dispose of her body? (I'm presuming they're novices)

[Lee.]

No of course not ,Im not saying that ,the photos as you say were not genuine

So as well as a loan of a freezer, they also managed to borrow a printer and a computer secretly and photoshopped maddie into a few photos??

[chuff me dizzy]

I'm not looking to shoot you down Chuff, I'm genuinely curious about the case and about what might have happened :love:

But why do you think they wanted to claim abduction if she died accidentally? I don't get the reasoning

Ive puzzled about that too, but I think a lot of it is because they were Drs and they had a lot to lose if Maddie had died due to their neglect and with being given something to make her sleep they would both be struck off

[chuff me dizzy]

So as well as a loan of a freezer, they also managed to borrow a printer and a computer secretly and photoshopped maddie into a few photos??

They used Warners printer (see police files)

[chuff me dizzy]

I'm sorry.. But I can't believe this was how it happened. Not a word of it.

I mean... Where would somebody first of all find somebody willing to loan Gerry a freezer to hide his dead daughter.. Then how exactly would they dispose of her body? (I'm presuming they're novices)

Tell you what Lee ,lets agree to disagree, people with closed minds never want to think for themselves ,they prefer to follow and think "Not on my doorstep"

[Niamh.]

Ive puzzled about that too, but I think a lot of it is because they were Drs and they had a lot to lose if Maddie had died due to their neglect and with being given something to make her sleep they would both be struck off

ah right ok, that makes a bit more sense actually. God though you'd want to be pretty cold to think that way after your child died, wouldn't you?

[Niamh.]

Tell you what Lee ,lets agree to disagree, people with closed minds never want to think for themselves ,they prefer to follow and think "Not on my doorstep"

Chuff don't accuse people having "closed minds" just because they don't agree with your theory please.

[Lee.]

They used Warners printer (see police files)

Yeah, to print off photos .. Now, if they'd used Warner's computers to photoshop their snaps I reckon somebody would have seen them doing it (it's not a 2 minute job) and a computer keeps track of everything you have done.. Did the investigation find evidence of a photo editing programme being used?

[chuff me dizzy]

ah right ok, that makes a bit more sense actually. God though you'd want to be pretty cold to think that way after your child died, wouldn't you?

Yes but to be honest I think they are both so cold and callous people

[chuff me dizzy]

Yeah, to print off photos .. Now, if they'd used Warner's computers to photoshop their snaps I reckon somebody would have seen them doing it (it's not a 2 minute job) and a computer keeps track of everything you have done.. Did the investigation find evidence of a photo editing programme being used?

THIS was posted on Gerry blog he wrote online most days during the early days ,believe or not its upto you


For those of you who still suport the McCanns I would like to ask whether you knew about the fridge?

Long ago, shortly after the McCanns hired their car, Gerry reported in his blog that he had taken the fridge from the rented apartment to the dump because it wasnt working.
Gerry himself wrote this and mentioned that people had been supportive at the dump site.
This was of course before they were declared suspects, when the fund was bringing in money everyday and the wave of global sympathy was at its height. Gerry must have felt very relaxed and confident that he didnt need to hide this rather strange action.

But it is a strange thing to do isnt it?
You rent an apartment, the fridge breaks, and instead of getting the owner to replace or repair it you take it upon yourself to remove the fridge and dump it?
How do you know the owner hasnt got a brother who is a fridge repair expert??

[Lee.]

Tell you what Lee ,lets agree to disagree, people with closed minds never want to think for themselves ,they prefer to follow and think "Not on my doorstep"

I've not got a closed mind! I'm merely questioning your theory as it doesn't make sense to me.

I think the freezer question is perfectly acceptable tbh?

[Kizzy]

Chuff don't accuse people having "closed minds" just because they don't agree with your theory please.

To be fair niamh some have pushed chuff on her view as she doesn't share their view... It's a vicious circle isn't it?

[chuff me dizzy]

Screenshots of all Gerry blogs ,fridge is in there if anyone cares to look, this is not composed by Maddie supporters it is the true screenshot of Gerry OWN blogs

http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/BLOGS_SCREENSHOTS.htm

[Lee.]

THIS was posted on Gerry blog he wrote online most days during the early days ,believe or not its upto you


For those of you who still suport the McCanns I would like to ask whether you knew about the fridge?

Long ago, shortly after the McCanns hired their car, Gerry reported in his blog that he had taken the fridge from the rented apartment to the dump because it wasnt working.
Gerry himself wrote this and mentioned that people had been supportive at the dump site.
This was of course before they were declared suspects, when the fund was bringing in money everyday and the wave of global sympathy was at its height. Gerry must have felt very relaxed and confident that he didnt need to hide this rather strange action.

But it is a strange thing to do isnt it?
You rent an apartment, the fridge breaks, and instead of getting the owner to replace or repair it you take it upon yourself to remove the fridge and dump it?
How do you know the owner hasnt got a brother who is a fridge repair expert??

That didn't come directly from his blog.. Is there an actual quote ?

[Kizzy]

THIS was posted on Gerry blog he wrote online most days during the early days ,believe or not its upto you


For those of you who still suport the McCanns I would like to ask whether you knew about the fridge?

Long ago, shortly after the McCanns hired their car, Gerry reported in his blog that he had taken the fridge from the rented apartment to the dump because it wasnt working.
Gerry himself wrote this and mentioned that people had been supportive at the dump site.
This was of course before they were declared suspects, when the fund was bringing in money everyday and the wave of global sympathy was at its height. Gerry must have felt very relaxed and confident that he didnt need to hide this rather strange action.

But it is a strange thing to do isnt it?
You rent an apartment, the fridge breaks, and instead of getting the owner to replace or repair it you take it upon yourself to remove the fridge and dump it?
How do you know the owner hasnt got a brother who is a fridge repair expert??

Is there a link to that on here? that's the creepiest thing I ever heard... :eek:

Edit: I see the link now ta.

[Niamh.]

To be fair niamh some have pushed chuff on her view as she doesn't share their view... It's a vicious circle isn't it?

Sorry what's your point exactly?

[Lee.]

That blog doesn't start until 23rd of May.. Where's the days before that?

[Kizzy]

Sorry what's your point exactly?

Not getting drawn into discussing something that has nothing to do with the thread, what I said was understandable.

[Niamh.]

Not getting drawn into discussing something that has nothing to do with the thread, what I said was understandable.

You're not getting drawn into something you started? Alrighty then good for you

[MTVN]

Fridge stuff sounds like rubbish to me, googling about it only finds that claim that's been posted on anti-McCann sites but no reliable source and no link to Gerry saying anything like that on his blog

[chuff me dizzy]

That blog doesn't start until 23rd of May.. Where's the days before that?

It starts days 1-50 and so on ,I will see if I can find out what day he wrote about taking fridge to tip

[chuff me dizzy]

Fridge stuff sounds like rubbish to me, googling about it only finds that claim that's been posted on anti-McCann sites but no reliable source and no link to Gerry saying anything like that on his blog

All in the screenshots Ive have posted

[Niamh.]

That would be a really bizarre thing to do in a rented apartment, if it's true

[chuff me dizzy]

David Paynes police statement where he also talks of fridge http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/DAVID-PAYNE-ROGATORY.htm

[Lee.]

It starts days 1-50 and so on ,I will see if I can find out what day he wrote about taking fridge to tip

So if he took her out the fridge on the 3rd of May and carried her down the road to somewhere "safe", where could he possibly hide her? I'm imagining Portugal would be hot at that time of year, so where could a man, in strange surroundings conceal a dead body so well that it wouldn't be found during an extensive search of the area? And why wouldn't somebody have smelt a decomposing body within the next 26 days?

I'm not trying to argue with you chuff.. I'm interested.

[MTVN]

David Paynes police statement where he also talks of fridge http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/DAVID-PAYNE-ROGATORY.htm

The only mention of a fridge is here:

1485 "Yeah. Was there anybody around the resort or you know your, the Ocean Club in general that you weren't happy with''
Reply "Err we, you know we did obviously retrospectively question you know who'd been in, in to the resort to actually work there. They, on one of the days they had some err gardening people which we hadn't you know seen before and we you know we just wondered, you know, after Madeleine had gone err you know who they were and what their you know validity was if you like. Err the, I know that again, you know Kate and Gerry had had problems err with I think it was the blinds in their flat and the fridge and they'd had people in err you know into the flat, you know which obviously retrospectively was a concern as well. Err yeah that, you know who were those people, had they been checked out.

Which doesn't sound that suspicous to me really

[chuff me dizzy]

The only mention of a fridge is here:



Which doesn't sound that suspicous to me really

No it is a longer thing than that I will see if I can find it

[Jesus.]

Jesus,do none of these things make you question what happened to Madeline or do you think it's as cut and dry as an abduction?I think Chuff has put forward some thought provoking questions and I do think people have the right to query their actions.I admire Chuffs passion and I do think she has some very valid points,it certainly made me think.

The truth is Kaz, I have absolutely no idea what happened to Maddie. What we do know is that the Portuguese police wanted it to be the parents, or tried to make a case for it at least, and they didn't move them past suspects to a point where they could ever be charged, and that can only be for one reason - lack of evidence.

If a highly motivated police force in a high profile case had absolutely nothing on them being involved in her murder/accidental death (depending on individual point of views), then I fail to see how anyone of us can start implying that we know more, or be amazed at a series of links provided in this thread, when quite often the links are from biased sources and can be discredited. Those dogs are the biggest standout example of that to me.

Josy posted a link a couple of days ago to some information I asked her about, and that seems very suspicious on the surface, but the link was down and I haven't had chance to read it yet, so I will go back, look at that information, but then I'll follow that up by trying to find another perspective.

I have no skin in this game, I don't know them and I never will. This situation could theoretically happen to any of us, be it directly, or through siblings or friends, and I'd like to think that the rule of innocent until proven guilty still stands.

I wouldn't want any of my family or friends being tried on twitter or the internet. They may well turn out to be guilty, I don't know. It wont be because of any information provided in this thread though, as far as I can tell.

If it does turn out to be them, then I can hold my hands up and say I was wrong - it's a lot easier to do that because I haven't been "researching" for 6 years. I think people on the internet have invested so much energy into the cover up/murder/accidental death angle, that I'm not sure what evidence could ever convince them otherwise.

So yeah, it is a suspicious case and I really understand that, but if you take a step back, and work out exactly what needs to have gone into the cover up for it to happen successfully, then I don't see how that is possible in a foreign country with a frenzied search going on. It defies basic logic to me.

[Kizzy]

Whether you think others research or interest is logical or not is irrelevant though.
We are entitled to our own interpretations based on what we personally consider to be logical only.
I was convinced that they were innocent and yet the more I read the less convinced of that I become.
I don't suggest anyone else draws this conclusion however.

[Lee.]

But the suggested series of events aren't logical kizzy. Surely you don't agree with the theory that PC whateverhisnameis came up with? It doesn't make sense?

[Kizzy]

But the suggested series of events aren't logical kizzy. Surely you don't agree with the theory that PC whateverhisnameis came up with? It doesn't make sense?

I don't know who PC whateverhisnameis is lee, so it's hard to say.
In many cases those related to or closely associated with missing children are implicated, so the feeling that this may be the case here is not altogether illogical is it in fairness?

[Jesus.]

Whether you think others research or interest is logical or not is irrelevant though.


That's not what I said, and when someone asks you a direct question about your opinion, then your opinion, for no other reason than to answer the question, sort of becomes relevant.

[Lee.]

I don't know who PC whateverhisnameis is lee, so it's hard to say.
In many cases those related to or closely associated with missing children are implicated, so the feeling that this may be the case here is not altogether illogical is it in fairness?

To me it is.. None of it makes sense. I think the McCanns are right in suing PC whateverhisnameis for defamation (sorry I cba looking up his name) and I really hope they win their case against him next month .

I also hope that if they do, something is also done about these dreadful websites where people are allowed to make completely unfounded allegations. I find them very distasteful and it must be very upsetting for the McCanns and their families.

[Kizzy]

Yes well we're going round in circles now that's all been said before in about 6 different ways hasn't it?
It's screamingly obvious that your view and mine don't tally so there's not much else to say is there?
I respect your right to think how you wish.

[chuff me dizzy]

To me it is.. None of it makes sense. I think the McCanns are right in suing PC whateverhisnameis for defamation (sorry I cba looking up his name) and I really hope they win their case against him next month .

I also hope that if they do, something is also done about these dreadful websites where people are allowed to make completely unfounded allegations. I find them very distasteful and it must be very upsetting for the McCanns and their families.

I doubt very much they will lose the case, this is the 4th case they have spent the search fund money on and to date 3 fails and this will be the 4th ,truth will out

[Vicky.]

Portuguese are reopening case. They said they wouldn't unless there was new evidence, wonder whats happened in the past few weeks.

Does this mean Kate, Gerry and Murat are all arguidos again? IIRC they weren't actually 'cleared', the case was just shelved.

Also, I wonder if the Tapas 9 will go back to Portugal for the reconstruction now, after declining last time. PJ wanted that but T9 said it was pointless.

[Niamh.]

Portuguese are reopening case. They said they wouldn't unless there was new evidence, wonder whats happened in the past few weeks.

Does this mean Kate, Gerry and Murat are all arguidos again? IIRC they weren't actually 'cleared', the case was just shelved.

Also, I wonder if the Tapas 9 will go back to Portugal for the reconstruction now, after declining last time. PJ wanted that but T9 said it was pointless.

Oh that is an interesting development. Bit weird that they wouldn't cooperate with the police as well for a reconstruction, although tbh I do find it hard to believe that they were all somehow in on it (whatever it may be)

[Vanessa]

Portuguese are reopening case. They said they wouldn't unless there was new evidence, wonder whats happened in the past few weeks.

Does this mean Kate, Gerry and Murat are all arguidos again? IIRC they weren't actually 'cleared', the case was just shelved.

Also, I wonder if the Tapas 9 will go back to Portugal for the reconstruction now, after declining last time. PJ wanted that but T9 said it was pointless.

They must have found some new evidence. :shocked:

[Vicky.]

Oh that is an interesting development. Bit weird that they wouldn't cooperate with the police as well for a reconstruction, although tbh I do find it hard to believe that they were all somehow in on it (whatever it may be)

They said they didnt think it would help, and would be traumatizing..etc

I kinda get that, however you would put that aside if there was even a small chance that the girl was found. IMO anyway

[Niamh.]

They said they didnt think it would help, and would be traumatizing..etc

I kinda get that, however you would put that aside if there was even a small chance that the girl was found. IMO anyway

Absolutely, God you'd think anything at all that might help you would do, wouldn't you?

[Vicky.]

Also some of the friends thought if they went back to Portugal they would also be made arguidos.

[Niamh.]

Also some of the friends thought if they went back to Portugal they would also be made arguidos.

Very weird. I hope whatever the Portuguese Police have is good, I would love for this case to be solved once and for all

[Vicky.]

Indeed. As Andy Redwood said..this has gone on for far too long.

Never a truer word spoken tbh

[Kizzy]

The fact that some refused is strange and may have more to do with the fact some darn't go back, wonder who it was?

[Marsh.]

That "it may be traumatising" reason is a tad strange because Kate and Gerry have kept the search going, kept the media interest in the case and for all intents and purposes are determined to find there daughter. So, a reconstruction isn't going to make it any more or less traumatic for them.

It would be what they want surely?

[Cherie]

Just watched this on the news the PJ it seems have reopened to case following new leads, and also presumably because of the British Police reopening the files. The new focus of the PJ is on abduction, apparently this was not the initial focus of the investigation when Madeline first went missing.

[chuff me dizzy]

IMO the only way justice will ever be done is if one of tapas group breaks their pact of silence, Do they all want dragging back into papers,news ,internet ? they were never very close friends before this happened(apart from Mcs and Paynes) , and as far as i know have never holidayed together since ,Tanner has been outed as the liar we knew she was for the last 6 .5 yrs,the whole case has hinged on her statement of seeing "eggman" so in that case the whole case is a total lie ,Im hoping they have done a deal with Tanner that if she speaks out they will not charge her with perjury and hindering a police case as the are able to do now ,Then it would be classed as new evidence ,Kate IMO will HAVE to answer police questions this time or Sy will wonder why she refused ,Im no optimist Im not expecting anything out of this but we can but hope ,I love how in news Mcs are"delighted" its getting reopened, ? Kate could have had it reopened on the same day it was shelved ,if she answered the police questions ,did recon that would be new evidence, she chose not to ,Dont believe this "Its what they wanted" because this is NOT what they wanted this is their worst nightmare come back to bite them on the arse

[chuff me dizzy]

Just watched this on the news the PJ it seems have reopened to case following new leads, and also presumably because of the British Police reopening the files. The new focus of the PJ is on abduction, apparently this was not the initial focus of the investigation when Madeline first went missing.

British police are re VIEWING ,they cannot re OPEN it, its not their case its a Portuguese case ,they cannot arrest anyone in connection to it

[fingers]

Gawd! that startled looking Llama on the left does my nut in!

[chuff me dizzy]

Gawd! that startled looking Llama on the left does my nut in!

And mine shes one ugly munter Fingers lol ... im looking for a new one, but not sure what to have

[Cherie]

British police are re VIEWING ,they cannot re OPEN it, its not their case its a Portuguese case ,they cannot arrest anyone in connection to it

Okay thanks, why would the British Police review the files unless they were asked to do so by someone?

[Marsh.]

Tanner has been outed as the liar we knew she was for the last 6 .5 yrs,the whole case has hinged on her statement of seeing "eggman" so in that case the whole case is a total lie ,Im hoping they have done a deal with Tanner that if she speaks out they will not charge her with perjury and hindering a police case as the are able to do now ,Then it would be classed as new evidence

She saw a man carrying a child away from the apartments, wrapped in a blanket.

How on earth was that a lie?

It's not her fault that it took six years for this man to think it was him and come forward so that he can be eliminated from the investigation.

[Nedusa]

No apparently both British and Portuguese police forces are re-opening the McCann case, perhaps it was an abduction after all and new evidence has come to light and re-ignited the case.

Does this development put the McCanns in the clear ??

[the truth]

IMO the only way justice will ever be done is if one of tapas group breaks their pact of silence, Do they all want dragging back into papers,news ,internet ? they were never very close friends before this happened(apart from Mcs and Paynes) , and as far as i know have never holidayed together since ,Tanner has been outed as the liar we knew she was for the last 6 .5 yrs,the whole case has hinged on her statement of seeing "eggman" so in that case the whole case is a total lie ,Im hoping they have done a deal with Tanner that if she speaks out they will not charge her with perjury and hindering a police case as the are able to do now ,Then it would be classed as new evidence ,Kate IMO will HAVE to answer police questions this time or Sy will wonder why she refused ,Im no optimist Im not expecting anything out of this but we can but hope ,I love how in news Mcs are"delighted" its getting reopened, ? Kate could have had it reopened on the same day it was shelved ,if she answered the police questions ,did recon that would be new evidence, she chose not to ,Dont believe this "Its what they wanted" because this is NOT what they wanted this is their worst nightmare come back to bite them on the arse
everyone should be grilled thoroughly
in particular everyone at that table. who was the last person to check maddie before kate found her? wasn't there another doctor there who went to see her half an hour earlier? he needs to be regrilled

[Kizzy]

everyone should be grilled thoroughly
in particular everyone at that table. who was the last person to check maddie before kate found her? wasn't there another doctor there who went to see her half an hour earlier? he needs to be regrilled

Funny you say that as from what I read about him it unnerves me, think his name is David Payne but not sure.

[Marsh.]

Funny you say that as from what I read about him it unnerves me, think his name is David Payne but not sure.

Yes, one of the McCann's other friends had some quite disturbing things to say about David Payne and Gerry.

[Niamh.]

Yes, one of the McCann's other friends had some quite disturbing things to say about David Payne and Gerry.

That's right I read about too

[Josy]

Yes, one of the McCann's other friends had some quite disturbing things to say about David Payne and Gerry.

That's right I read about too

What did they say?

[Niamh.]

What did they say?

Well, apparently this couple who were also Doctors had been on holiday abroad with the McCanns and the Paynes a year or maybe a little more before and the woman said she over heard conversations between David Payne and Gerry and they were saying inappropriate things about Maddie and davids daughter. I'll try and find a link

[Niamh.]

Katherina Gaspar: Witness Statement PJ Files

Processos Vol XIII
Pages 3911 to 3915

Last Name: GASPAR
Forenames: KATHERINA ZACHARIAS
Date of Testimony: 16/05/2007
Number of Pages: 8

I give this declaration in relation to the MCCANN family who are currently in Portugal. The MCCANN family is composed of Gerry MCCANN, his wife, Kate MCCANN and their three children, Madeleine, age 4, and Sean and Amelie, who are twins and of 2 years of age.

As it is widely divulged, Madeleine is not with her family presently, and has been missing for the last two weeks.

I will begin by explaining that I am married to Savio Gaspar and that we have two daughters, E*****, who is almost 3 and I***** who is now one year old. I have been married to Savio for 11 years. I am a general practitioner like my husband. I met my husband when we were (page 1) working together in Exeter, around 14 years ago.

To explain in what way we met the MCCANN family, I would like to state that my husband knows Kate, given that both attended Dundee University between 1987 and 1992. At that time, Kate's name was Kate HEALY. I met Kate and Gerry for the occasion of their wedding, around 1998, in Liverpool. Both Savio and I went to the wedding because since Savio was an old friend of Kate, we were both invited to the event.

As far as I know Savio did not know Gerry before the abovementioned wedding. After that time, we met as friends and about three times we spent weekends away together. I would say become close to be intimate friends of Gerry and Kate.

I remember that in 2002 or 2003, Savio and I spent a weekend with Gerry and Kate in Devon. We maintained contact with each others via phone.

In 2002/2003 Savio and I were living in Birmingham and the MCCANNS in Leicester.

In September of 2005, Savio, I and Ellena, who at the time was 1 and a half years old, spent our holidays abroad, in Majorca. We went (page 2) on holidays with Kate, Gerry, and Madeleine, who should have been around 2 and a half years old and with the twins, Sean and Amelie, who were just months old. I remember that I was pregnant with Isabella.

On those holidays, with us, were as well friends of Gerry and Kate.

There was a couple, whose names were Dave and Fiona, and whose family name was PAYNE, I believe. I think that they were married and had one daughter with about 1 year old, named Lilly. I remember that on those holidays, Fiona was pregnant.

There was another couple, whose names were Tara and Stuart, and whose family name I cannot remember who were also on holidays with us. They had two boys, of 1 and 3 years old, whose names I do not remember. I did not know these two families until we went on holidays together. From memory, I think that it was David who organised these holidays and we all stayed together in a big house in Majorca.

We spent a week on holidays, however, the MCCANN family and the PAYNE family stayed for two weeks. I think that Tara and Stuart, and their two children, also stayed for just one week.

Two or three days had gone by, all of us staying in Majorca where, in general terms, we had fun (Page 3) with our children. Possibly around the fourth or fifth day abroad, I remember an incident that stayed recorded in my head. I say this in this way, because I have thought many times about the incident that I am about to describe.

One night, on holidays, the adults, that is, the couples that I mentioned, were on a patio outside of the house where we were staying. We had been eating and drinking.

I was seated between Dave and Gerry who I believe were both speaking about Madeleine. I don't remember the conversation in its entirety, but it seemed they were discussing a possible scenario. I remember Dave telling Gerry something like "she", referring to Madeleine, "would do this".

When he mentioned "this", Dave was sucking on one of his fingers, pushing it inside and outside his mouth, while with the other hand he made a circle around his nipple, in a circulatory movement over his clothes. This was done in a provocative manner and carried an explicit insinuation in relation to what he was saying and doing.

I remember that I was shocked at this, and looked at Gerry, and also at Dave, to see their reactions. I looked around (page 4) as if saying "did anyone else hear this, or was it just me". There was a nervous silence registered in all the conversations and afterwards, everyone began talking again.

I never spoke to anyone about this, but I always felt that it was very strange and it wasn’t something that someone should do or say.

Besides this [incident], I remember that Dave did the same thing once again. When I refer to this, I want to clarify that it was during a conversation in which he was talking about an imaginary situation, though I could not say exactly what about. I believe that he was talking about his own daughter, Lily, though I'm not certain. He put one of his fingers in his mouth and slide it in and out, while the other hand drew a circle around his nipple in a provocative and sexual manner. I believe that he was referring to the way that Lily, would behave or do it.

I believe that he did this later on, during the holidays, but I cannot be sure. The only time, besides this one, that I was with Dave and Fiona was several weeks after the holidays, when Savio and I met up with Gerry, Kate, Dave and Fiona at a restaurant in Leicester.

I am absolutely certain that he said what he said and that he did the gestures that I referred, but that could have occurred in the restaurant in Leicester, though (page five) I believe that it was later on, in Majorca. When I heard Dave doing and making this a second time, I took it more seriously.

I remember thinking whether he looked at the girls in a manner different from me or from the others. I imagined that maybe he had visited Internet sites related to small children. In short, I thought that he was interested child pornography on the internet.

During our holidays I was more attentive at bath time after hearing Dave saying that.

During our vacation in Majorca, it was the fathers who took care of the children's baths. I had the tendency to walk close to the bathroom, if it was Dave bathing the children. I remember telling Savio to be careful and to be there, in case it was Dave helping to bathe the children and, in particular, to my daughter E*****. I was very clear about this, as having heard him saying that had disturbed me, and I did not trust him to give bath to E***** alone.

When I heard Dave say that a second time, it reinforced what I already thought in relation to his thoughts about girls. During our stay in Majorca, Dave and his wife, Fiona, accompanied by this daughter Lily, took Madeleine (page 6) with them to spend the day, in order to give Kate and Gerry a bit of rest and time to be with the twins. When I say this, it is not that I was worried about Madeleine's safety, since she was also with Fiona and Lily, and also with Dave, as far as I know.

As I already mentioned, I was only with Dave and Fiona on one occasion, after Majorca, and I have not spoken to them since that time. In the last two years, we have met, as a family, with the MCCANN, once in a while. That happens mainly at the children's birthdays, a time when we get together.

The first time I had knowledge of the terrible news about Madeleine's disappearance through the radio, my thoughts went immediately to Dave. I asked Savio if Dave was also on holidays with the MCCANN in Portugal but he did not know.

I watched TV meticulously, and watching the coverage of the news, I understood that Dave was there, because I saw him, in the background, on the television images during the first days after the Madeleine's disappearance. Based on that, I believed that he was on holidays with the MCCANN in Portugal. Today, Wednesday, the 16th of May of 2007, at 17:40, I gave DC Brewer an A4 page containing 2 photographic images. I am going to reference these images as (ref KZG/1) (probatory element) that may (page seven) be presented as mean of proof, if necessary. These photographs were taken during the holidays in Majorca. In the photographs, Dave is wearing a white t-shirt and the woman in the photograph corresponds to his wife Fiona. The man who is holding the glass of wine in the photograph is Stuart. These photographs were taken while we were at Majorca.

Signed:

http://www.mccannfiles.com/id236.html

[Josy]

Thanks Nimah.

That's very disturbing.

[Niamh.]

Thanks Nimah.

That's very disturbing.

Yeah it really is

[Kizzy]

I've read that before, thats the reason he stuck in my mind.
I bet it's him refusing to return to Portugal.

[Vicky.]

Payne was the last one to see Maddie alive (except her parents) at about 6.30pm ish. The visit lasted 30 minutes according to him, 30 seconds according to kate. And was totally written out of the reconstruction so it seems it didnt happen at all now

The doctor who checked on the kids was Matthew Oldfield. He said he saw the twins, but didnt actually see Maddie. But since everything was quiet he though it was fine.

[chuff me dizzy]

everyone should be grilled thoroughly
in particular everyone at that table. who was the last person to check maddie before kate found her? wasn't there another doctor there who went to see her half an hour earlier? he needs to be regrilled

David Payne was "supposed "to be the last who saw her ,Im gutted to see today the Golden Couple have asked to be told everything that they are doing and planning to do in the case, they seem to forget they are the only real suspects in the case both Uk and Pj ,Murat was pointed out by Tanner so he doesnt count ,if the Pj allow them to be told everything ,but God know why they would do so ,then I will lose any faith I have of the law ,and poor Maddie has lost again, such a shame

[chuff me dizzy]

They said they didnt think it would help, and would be traumatizing..etc

I kinda get that, however you would put that aside if there was even a small chance that the girl was found. IMO anyway

They have been back loads of times, but usually if they think there is a cheque at the other side waiting for them

[chuff me dizzy]

Never heard the like of this .............. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2476728/From-arguido-assistente-McCanns-apply-prosecutor-status-let-Portuguese-case-files-suspects-face-trial.html

[chuff me dizzy]

I cannot believe it ....... NOW they are ok about doing reconstruction ? and dog evidence CAN be used, looking a bit more hopeful ,this is posted by someone on group Im in ,its just been broadcast on tv in Portugal BACK TO BEING ARGUIDOS !!!!!!! :dance::dance::dance:


Video with the dogs will be broadcast later... A few points so far - CMTV states the reconstruction will go ahead and that the parents have showed their availability to attend; - the former Minister of the Interior (MAI) Rui Pereira said the McCanns should be constituted as arguidos until the end of the inquest; - The McCanns have requested to be assistants to the process;

[fingers]

I am still of the opinion that Maddie died from an overdose of a sedative to keep her asleep while her parents enjoyed the high life.

[anne666]

Yeah, if they were from a council state you can bet they'd have had the twins taken away from them.

I said just that at the time. Social Services would have swooped in the minute they got back to England. How can any parent live with that on their conscience

[anne666]

http://www.mccannfiles.com/id236.html[/url]

I'm afraid if I'd witnessed something like that I would have asked him just what it was about.

[arista]

I am still of the opinion that Maddie died from an overdose of a sedative to keep her asleep while her parents enjoyed the high life.



OK


The body is in what place ?

[fingers]

OK


The body is in what place ?

Don't ask me, ask Gerry.

[Kazanne]

For anyone interested this is interesting too
http://jillhavern.forumotion.net/t8322-wow-a-must-read-madeleine-clues-hidden-for-five-years-sunday-times-full-article-now-on-page-1

[Vicky.]

For anyone interested this is interesting too
http://jillhavern.forumotion.net/t8322-wow-a-must-read-madeleine-clues-hidden-for-five-years-sunday-times-full-article-now-on-page-1

Yes, the 'new' suspect is NOT new. Was just pretty much ignored by the parents for years. I think she did acknowledge it in her book but she swears that the smith sighting was the same person as Jane Tanners man. Despite there being nearly an hour between the sightings and such ;)

I suspect the reason it was kept quiet is because Smith said that he was 60-80% sure the guy he saw was Gerry...though he has changed his mind since, after a visit from their spokesperson ;)

Cant believe the times has been allowed to run with that story actually..they should expect to be sued shortly I imagine.

A statement released by the Find Madeleine fund said that “all information privately gathered during the search for Madeleine has been fully acted upon where necessary” and had been passed to Scotland Yard.

Hmm..yeah sure..

[fingers]

This is a 112 page PDF file free to download, purporting to tell the true story of Medeleine's disappearance.

> http://freepdfhosting.com/9099bef539.pdf

[Kizzy]

It says file cannot be loaded on here grrr!
If anyone reads it cut and paste any interesting bits here please.
Have to say it's crazy that gerry blames press intrusion for hampering the case, then withholds eyewitness accounts?....

[fingers]

It says file cannot be loaded on here grrr!
If anyone reads it cut and paste any interesting bits here please.
Have to say it's crazy that gerry blames press intrusion for hampering the case, then withholds eyewitness accounts?....Kizzy what platform are you using?

[Jesus.]

http://get.adobe.com/uk/reader/

[fingers]

Try this one Kizzy

> http://www.promptfile.com/l/DB5589D447-C1102BCE3A it's a PDF file and you need a PDF reader to see it, Jesus has posted a link to a reader.

[Kizzy]

It's ok i'm on a mobile thing will have a look when i'm on a PC though :)

[Vicky.]

I wonder how (other) people who donated to the fund feel that their money was used to hush up vital leads rather than follow all leads as promised..

[chuff me dizzy]

EXACTLY what I said had happened which some laughed at ,eat your words folks ....... http://www.thesundaytimes.co.uk/sto/news/article1332785.ece

[Kizzy]

The full article is in the comments in the link posted by fingers chuff :)

[user104658]

The press have been all over this like flies around ****e for the last month or so, despite there being nothing genuinely new... And a lot of the press attention has gone from being "pro McCann", the generally indifferent, to McCann-skeptical.

My opinion? the mass press has started to realise that it was being hoodwinked by a "simple" story all those years ago, that there's clearly more to it than meets the eye, and they're now slowly softening up the public for more "revelations" to keep outrage to a minimum.

[Josy]

EXACTLY what I said had happened which some laughed at ,eat your words folks ....... http://www.thesundaytimes.co.uk/sto/news/article1332785.ece

Can you stop making such inflammatory posts in here please, members are having a discussion and are learning new things about this case it's not some kind of competition to get one up one people because you think you know more than others.

[Vicky.]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/madeleinemccann/10407664/Madeleine-McCann-critical-new-evidence-is-from-five-year-old-suppressed-report.html

Telegraph running with this now too. Interesting parts..



But the report was sidelined for five years by Gerry and Kate McCann because it was critical of people involved and would have caused a distraction if made public, The Sunday Times reported.

The team of hand-picked former MI5 agents was hired by the McCanns in the spring of 2008, 10 months after their daughter disappeared from the Portuguese resort of Praia da Luz.

A report they produced was “hypercritical” of the McCanns and their friends and the authors were threatened with legal action if it were ever published, the paper reported.

SY had to actually contact the author too..

[Kizzy]

Can you stop making such inflammatory posts in here please, members are having a discussion and are learning new things about this case it's not some kind of competition to get one up one people because you think you know more than others.

I would say I told you so too!
:laugh:
There were some rather rude objections to chuffs views earlier in the thread.
So she's been vindicated as far as I can see.

[MTVN]

Been vindicated in what, the article might cause a bit of suspicion but it still doesn't prove anything and is not unexplainable

[Vicky.]

Been vindicated in what, the article might cause a bit of suspicion but it still doesn't prove anything and is not unexplainable

Can you think of an explanation of why they would willingly conceal valuable info like that if they were serious about finding their daughter? Genuinely curious.

They have had E-fits of the prime suspect for the past 5 years. They have shoved E-fits of Jane Tanners sighting down our throats at every opportunity..ITS STILL ON THEIR SITE (10 days later) DESPITE SY SAYING HE IS INNOCENT. http://www.findmadeleine.com/campaigns/unidentified_people.html

They said they were following all leads, yet buried this.

[MTVN]

Can you think of an explanation of why they would willingly conceal valuable info like that if they were serious about finding their daughter? Genuinely curious.

They have had E-fits of the prime suspect for the past 5 years. They have shoved E-fits of Jane Tanners sighting down our throats at every opportunity..ITS STILL ON THEIR SITE (10 days later) DESPITE SY SAYING HE IS INNOCENT.

They said they were following all leads, yet buried this.

The Sunday Times article offers some explanations:

So why was such a “crucial” piece of evidence kept under lock and key?

The relationship between the fund and Oakley was already souring by the time the report was submitted — and its findings could only have made matters worse.

As well as questioning parts of the McCanns’ evidence, it contained sensitive information about Madeleine’s sleeping patterns and raised the highly sensitive possibility that she could have died in an accident after leaving the apartment herself from one of two unsecured doors.

There was also an uncomfortable complication with Smith’s account. He had originally told the police that he had “recognised something” about the way Gerry McCann carried one of his children which reminded him of the man he had seen in Praia da Luz.

Smith has since stressed that he does not believe the man he saw was Gerry, and Scotland Yard do not consider this a possibility. Last week the McCanns were told officially by the Portuguese authorities that they are not suspects.

The McCanns were also understandably wary of Oakley after allegations that the chairman, Kevin Halligen, failed to pass on money paid by the fund to Exton’s team. Halligen denies this. He was later convicted of fraud in an unrelated case in the US.

The McCann fund source said the Oakley report was passed on to new private investigators after the contract ended, but that the firm’s work was considered “contaminated” by the financial dispute.

He said the fund wanted to continue to pursue information about the man seen by Tanner, and it would have been too expensive to investigate both sightings in full — so the Smith E-Fits were not publicised. It was also considered necessary to threaten legal action against the authors.

“[The report] was hypercritical of the people involved . . . It just wouldn’t be conducive to the investigation to have that report publicly declared because . . . the newspapers would have been all over it. And it would have been completely distracting,” said the source.

[Vicky.]

LOL at too expensive. Thats a pathetic excuse :D

The rest seems to be..it made the parents look guilty :S

[Vicky.]

Even without the rest of the report..she somehow found the cash to publish efits of various people in her book. Funny how it suddenly ran out for the smith sighting eh?

Also it costs nothing to add a photo to your webpage.

Or they could have passed the photos on to the police. But no, they sat on them until the police had to REQUEST them. NOT the actions of parents who want to find their daughter. By any stretch of the imagination.

[Kazanne]

I am glad Chuff posted those links as it has opened my eyes to the case,I was never overly interested in this case until she posted them,and now I have read some stuff I am confused as to why they were so bloody 'awkward' in helping all they could.

[MTVN]

So publishing the findings of a private investigation implying possible guilt at a time when they are being very highly scrutinised and suspected would harm what they considered to be the real search for the truth (this is obviously presuming their innocence)

And the firm does sound a bit dodgy, it's a private investigation so none of its findings are official or necessarily reliable and there is not as much accountability either, if what they say is true the other private investigators didn't trust the firm and its findings either, and presumably Scotland Yard didn't either if again it is true that all information was passed on to them

Yes it does seem suspicious but it's not as simple as just a blatant attempt to hide the truth and knowingly hinder the search. Easy to say with hindsight that they should have publicised the e fits but it seems that not many people considered the Smith sighting as important at the time, he himself has accused the Portuguese police of not taking it seriously

[Vicky.]

They didnt have to publish the findings, handing them over to the police would have sufficed.

Or at least mentioning it when asking for our police to reassess the case..

[Kizzy]

Been vindicated in what, the article might cause a bit of suspicion but it still doesn't prove anything and is not unexplainable

Vindicated in that there is questions that haven't been answered. That there were things covered up, withheld, and undisclosed that could have impacted on the case at the time.
They do not reopen cases to cause suspicion, it has not been explained for several years so i'm hoping it can be explained now.

[Vicky.]

Surely the libel case must be thrown out now? (not that they would win anyway)

Afterall, their 'problem' with the book is that it hindered the search for Madeleine apparently. However, they themselves have hindered the search more than anyone else, by allowing the police to focus on the wrong person all of these years, and purposely withheld Efits of what has now turned out to be the prime suspect.

I await them suing themselves for hindering the investigation :D

[chuff me dizzy]

Can you think of an explanation of why they would willingly conceal valuable info like that if they were serious about finding their daughter? Genuinely curious.

They have had E-fits of the prime suspect for the past 5 years. They have shoved E-fits of Jane Tanners sighting down our throats at every opportunity..ITS STILL ON THEIR SITE (10 days later) DESPITE SY SAYING HE IS INNOCENT. http://www.findmadeleine.com/campaigns/unidentified_people.html

They said they were following all leads, yet buried this.

McCanns made Maddie a ward of court DAYS after her demise (not expecting her home?) By doing this her medical records can never be shown and McCanns get to see all paperwork from the case ,why would anyone go to these lenghts? whats in her medical records they have got to keep hidden ?Under ward of court law Maddie medical records will not be available to see until 2052 ,a bit drastic in an "abduction "case dont you think ?

[Kazanne]

McCanns made Maddie a ward of court DAYS after her demise (not expecting her home?) By doing this her medical records can never be shown and McCanns get to see all paperwork from the case ,why would anyone go to these lenghts? whats in her medical records they have got to keep hidden ?Under ward of court law Maddie medical records will not be available to see until 2052 ,a bit drastic in an "abduction "case dont you think ?

Really good point Chuff,I for one thankyou for bringing so much of this to light,I never knew half of what happened in this case,so many unanswered questions.:hugesmile:

[Livia]

If only the Portuguese and British police were privvy to the information that some forum members seem to have access to, the case would be cut and dried. If only the police services in both countries were as smart and savvy as some of our amateur detectives and conspiricy theorists. Unless... these theories and this information is awash with conjecture and inaccuracy, of course.

[chuff me dizzy]

Really good point Chuff,I for one thankyou for bringing so much of this to light,I never knew half of what happened in this case,so many unanswered questions.:hugesmile:

Lots more to come Kaz ,Today they have dug up another dead Patsy ,everytime the heat gets hot they drag out another

[Kazanne]

Lots more to come Kaz ,Today they have dug up another dead Patsy ,everytime the heat gets hot they drag out another

It's fascinating Chuff,one day hopefully ,all will be clear.

[chuff me dizzy]

So publishing the findings of a private investigation implying possible guilt at a time when they are being very highly scrutinised and suspected would harm what they considered to be the real search for the truth (this is obviously presuming their innocence)

And the firm does sound a bit dodgy, it's a private investigation so none of its findings are official or necessarily reliable and there is not as much accountability either, if what they say is true the other private investigators didn't trust the firm and its findings either, and presumably Scotland Yard didn't either if again it is true that all information was passed on to them

Yes it does seem suspicious but it's not as simple as just a blatant attempt to hide the truth and knowingly hinder the search. Easy to say with hindsight that they should have publicised the e fits but it seems that not many people considered the Smith sighting as important at the time, he himself has accused the Portuguese police of not taking it seriously

McCanns hired them ,even though they had never worked on a missing child case before and were charged with money laundering ,the firm still owes the"fund" £300,000 ,the McCanns have never sued to get it back ,you have to question why they thought pensioners money should be wasted and not even tried to retrieve it back even when the boss of the firm Kevin Halligen was arrested to be deported on money laundering offences , hush money by any chance

[chuff me dizzy]

It's fascinating Chuff,one day hopefully ,all will be clear.

For the first time Im hopeful it is all going to come out ,and when they win libel case next month(as they will) it will all become so much clearer, IF the Uk press grow a pair in time to print the result of the case, something theyve not done in the other 4 cases they have lost against the same man