Female Olympic Boxer Hit by "Man" Gets Nose Smashed

[Ninastar]

I have never understood ppl thinking that woman v man in boxing would even be okay. Like when people were saying Rhonda Rousey could take on FloYd Mayweather

Like I know women are badass and strong and incredible - I love women in all the ways you can love them… but to sit there and say that Rousey could probs take Mayweather is mind boggling to me

[GiRTh]

I genuinely hope that a stage light or something will fall on Jake PaulHe's an idiot. Its not good for the sport.

[Swan]

He's an idiot. Its not good for the sport.

He is though, as much of a wanker as he is, he's a draw. He's a mega heel. People buy/sub to the PPV in the hope he gets his comeuppance. He's actually brilliant for the sport, financially.

[GiRTh]

He is though, as much of a wanker as he is, he's a draw. He's a mega heel. People buy/sub to the PPV in the hope he gets his comeuppance. He's actually brilliant for the sport, financially.I agree he get bums on seats but its not good for the image of the sport and also the sport itself. The best but, also worse depending on how you lo at it, thing to happen to boxing is the Saudi money., This could give the fighters the income they need for this gruesome, brutal sport. There are the human rights issue that make boxing in Saudi so dodgy.

The youtubers and influencers who box give nothing to the sport, for me. They make it more of a spectacle but they make people think the sport is easy. ITs not, its the hardest sport of all. Youtubers and influencers are no good for the sport of boxing

[GiRTh]

I have never understood ppl thinking that woman v man in boxing would even be okay. Like when people were saying Rhonda Rousey could take on FloYd Mayweather

Like I know women are badass and strong and incredible - I love women in all the ways you can love them… but to sit there and say that Rousey could probs take Mayweather is mind boggling to meYes, its ridiculous.

The rules would have be incredibly specific to the point where it would'nt be entertaining.

I have few issues with men and women sparring and hard sparring - if the rules are strict and adhered to - but not a fight that might end in knockout.

[Swan]

I agree he get bums on seats but its not good for the image of the sport and also the sport itself. The best but, also worse depending on how you lo at it, thing to happen to boxing is the Saudi money., This could give the fighters the income they need for this gruesome, brutal sport. There are the human rights issue that make boxing in Saudi so dodgy.

The youtubers and influencers who box give nothing to the sport, for me. They make it more of a spectacle but they make people think the sport is easy. ITs not, its the hardest sport of all. Youtubers and influencers are no good for the sport of boxing

I agree with you wholeheartedly. It's killed/killing the sport. But it's the modern age, these yters rule, bums in seats, money in pockets. It's sad. I hate both Paul's, equally. But, they both draw. And they're quite good tbf.

Mike Tyson is one of my hero's, such an interesting, brave, unique person. A true warrior of our time. As a fan, im so glad he didn't fight that petulant **** Jake Paul. His would have lost, his legacy would have been shattered.

[Mystic Mock]

Imane Khelif

https://media2.giphy.com/media/YNEpBZC0Ly08M/giphy.gif?cid=6c09b952muq814w9c4u5hy3mktbrka2lln8r 403f8cc4cd50&ep=v1_gifs_search&rid=giphy.gif&ct=g

Come on LT.

There are good points to be made here without resorting to this.

[Mystic Mock]

So she very obviously doesn’t have an overt advantage over her opponents then does she if her record isn’t perfect and her opponents who aren’t babies can put up a fight against her so I ask, what exactly is the issue with her competing as the woman she is

Having an advantage doesn't make her unbeatable, it just means that it'll be harder for her opponents to win than average for those athletes.

[Niamh.]

Ireland's Kellie Harrington in line to win gold or silver

[Niamh.]

I hope there's a future where girls think that could be them some day

[Ninastar]

Ireland's Kellie Harrington in line to win gold or silver

I hope she does!!

[Zizu]

I hope there's a future where girls think that could be them some day


It’s surely gonna get harder at the very top with the growing influx of whatever these fighters are ( not women)


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[Zizu]

.

[Livia]

Imane Khelif is a biologically born woman


she is BORN a WOMAN


Imane looks very much more like a man than a woman ;)



if it looks like a man, fights like a man, it must've been a man

Can I just ask, how did we get from exhibit A to exhibit B?

[Benjamin]

Can I just ask, how did we get from exhibit A to exhibit B?

I was thinking this too.

[Ninastar]

Can I just ask, how did we get from exhibit A to exhibit B?

I was thinking this too.

The wheel is still spinning but the hamster is dead

[arista]

The wheel is still spinning but the hamster is dead


Must be a Ghost
then.

[Quantum Boy]

Can I just ask, how did we get from exhibit A to exhibit B?

I was thinking this too.

...

Ignore them. You’re not being transphobic.

Today. You have to be careful with Nicky, he'll legit do a mid-air 180 and jumpscare you tomorrow :umm2:.

Love it when the crystal ball kicks in this quickly :joker:

[Livia]

The wheel is still spinning but the hamster is dead

This made me LOL....

[Zizu]

Can I just ask, how did we get from exhibit A to exhibit B?


I noticed a ‘subtle’ change of track also ..


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[Ammi]

…there is an article in one of the tabloids written by someone who grew up with Imane Khelif in her village from when she was a child…he obviously is in full support of her and for me she’s female…she was assigned female at birth and has been brought up and ‘socialised and conditioned’ as a female and I imagine that the socialising and conditioning so male children and female children would differ maybe quite substantially in her home country…so for me, she is female but there are obviously some complexities that are more unique…in terms of competing in a female sport category, though…and especially a contact sport has higher levels of safety concerns…Im not totally sure that she isn’t an ‘advantaged athlete’..I’m also not sure that she is…:laugh:…but that is something that she just can’t be as it has to be that skill levels may differ but it has to be a ‘fair fight’…

[Zizu]

…there is an article in one of the tabloids written by someone who grew up with Imane Khelif in her village from when she was a child…he obviously is in full support of her and for me she’s female…she was assigned female at birth and has been brought up and ‘socialised and conditioned’ as a female and I imagine that the socialising and conditioning so male children and female children would differ maybe quite substantially in her home country…so for me, she is female but there are obviously some complexities that are more unique…in terms of competing in a female sport category, though…and especially a contact sport has higher levels of safety concerns…Im not totally sure that she isn’t an ‘advantaged athlete’..I’m also not sure that she is…:laugh:…but that is something that she just can’t be as it has to be that skill levels may differ but it has to be a ‘fair fight’…


The thing is … its alright having and using physical advantages in life and sport but we have to draw the line at one v one.combat sports where someone will get badly hurt or killed


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[Ammi]

…I think I just said that…:laugh:..

[Ammi]

…levels of skill will vary but for all athletes, it must be a ‘fair fight’ in this particular category but in all categories…it has to be assessed if there are any ‘advantaged athletes’…

[Zizu]

…I think I just said that…:laugh:..


I only skimmed through it tbh
Not keen on huge blocks of text


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[Ammi]

I only skimmed through it tbh
Not keen on huge blocks of text


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…that’s fair enough and fine…it was just one of those things when I thought…did I not just say that, maybe I didn’t say what I thought I did…:laugh:…it’s fine/it’s cool…if it sounded snappy, I apologise…it’s not how I intended it…

[Quantum Boy]

I agree Ammi I'm leaning heavily toward this not being a "gender politics" issue but a much more complicated situation involving a potential intersex condition. With that being the case, I actually would generally consider it to be legitimate for her to compete in women's sports generally; it's a rare example, and she is not and has never been male, which makes it very different to someone who has chosen to transition. I would not, for example, take issue with her competing in a running event, or any other non contact event, even if she was totally dominating that event.

BUT...

My caveat here would be, in physical contact sport and especially combat sport the primary consideration should always be safety... and if there's found to be a disproportionate strength advantage (that is, a level of strength that would not normally be achievable by others fighting in the same category without hormonal/chemical enhancement) then I think it's ultimately fair to say that unfortunately they can't safely and fairly fight in that category.

The regulator's balance always should skew to what's safe over and above what's fair, if we're being sensible. That's the case in all areas IMO.

[Zizu]

…that’s fair enough and fine…it was just one of those things when I thought…did I not just say that, maybe I didn’t say what I thought I did…:laugh:…it’s fine/it’s cool…if it sounded snappy, I apologise…it’s not how I intended it…


It’s all gooood


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[Zizu]

I agree Ammi I'm leaning heavily toward this not being a "gender politics" issue but a much more complicated situation involving a potential intersex condition. With that being the case, I actually would generally consider it to be legitimate for her to compete in women's sports generally; it's a rare example, and she is not and has never been male, which makes it very different to someone who has chosen to transition. I would not, for example, take issue with her competing in a running event, or any other non contact event, even if she was totally dominating that event.

BUT...

My caveat here would be, in physical contact sport and especially combat sport the primary consideration should always be safety... and if there's found to be a disproportionate strength advantage (that is, a level of strength that would not normally be achievable by others fighting in the same category without hormonal/chemical enhancement) then I think it's ultimately fair to say that unfortunately they can't safely and fairly fight in that category.

The regulator's balance always should skew to what's safe over and above what's fair, if we're being sensible. That's the case in all areas IMO.


Its not just increased punching power its increased punch resistance , stamina and aggressive


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[Quantum Boy]

Its not just increased punching power its increased punch resistance , stamina and aggressive


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"Aggressive" is debatable it's not a natural advantage, it's a choice/tactic that anyone could use, or not use. The rest of it all comes under physical advantage so isn't really relevant. For the record I am against actual trans women taking part in any women's sport professionally but it's increasingly looking like that's not the situation here.

[Ammi]

I agree Ammi I'm leaning heavily toward this not being a "gender politics" issue but a much more complicated situation involving a potential intersex condition. With that being the case, I actually would generally consider it to be legitimate for her to compete in women's sports generally; it's a rare example, and she is not and has never been male, which makes it very different to someone who has chosen to transition. I would not, for example, take issue with her competing in a running event, or any other non contact event, even if she was totally dominating that event.

BUT...

My caveat here would be, in physical contact sport and especially combat sport the primary consideration should always be safety... and if there's found to be a disproportionate strength advantage (that is, a level of strength that would not normally be achievable by others fighting in the same category without hormonal/chemical enhancement) then I think it's ultimately fair to say that unfortunately they can't safely and fairly fight in that category.

The regulator's balance always should skew to what's safe over and above what's fair, if we're being sensible. That's the case in all areas IMO.

…I do think this is sadly another time when we’ve seen ‘the worst of the internet/social media’ in discussions of her genitalia etc…and in her country also, I imagine so many things are not discussed publicly in any way…but on the ‘athlete’ side, which is what I personally want to focus on…I’m not sure whether her more elevated levels of testosterone would be comparable in any way to someone who had taken performance enhanced drugs…but safety has to be ensured in a ‘fair fight’…none of this is her fault and it hasn’t helped, I don’t think…that there seems to have been some inconsistencies in the past in terms of her competing…such a mess all round, really…

[Niamh.]

…I do think this is sadly another time when we’ve seen ‘the worst of the internet/social media’ in discussions of her genitalia etc…and in her country also, I imagine so many things are not discussed publicly in any way…but on the ‘athlete’ side, which is what I personally want to focus on…I’m not sure whether her more elevated levels of testosterone would be comparable in any way to someone who had taken performance enhanced drugs…but safety has to be ensured in a ‘fair fight’…none of this is her fault and it hasn’t helped, I don’t think…that there seems to have been some inconsistencies in the past in terms of her competing…such a mess all round, really…There's a lot of conflicting information about the whole thing online.

[GiRTh]

For my opinion, she is an advantaged athlete but, she seems to lack the ability to take advantage of her advantage. She still has an advantage though. I dont think she should be competing. Yesterday in the fight, every time the fighters came together she pushed or threw her opponent to the canvas.

I'm now starting to resent that she is getting more press than much more talented athletes. I hope she goes out soon.

[Ninastar]

Okay I dooo hate to be that person I swear I just saw a pic of XY homie wearing a crotch pad? Is that common for women?

[Liam-]

There's a lot of conflicting information about the whole think online.

Purposefully spread misinformation to push a bigoted agenda of harassment and hatred towards this poor woman and gullible, easily manipulated and easily triggered morons are falling for it

[Liam-]

https://twitter.com/irishwomens/status/1820015788591321551?s=46&t=-V1HH0UJyce-tDsLnymASQ

[Crimson Dynamo]

"bigoted children's author"


great source Liam...

Sound

[Beso]

Do any of them take part in sports that their conditioned wouldnt give them an advantage, like bowls or something.

[Zizu]

Do any of them take part in sports that their conditioned wouldnt give them an advantage, like bowls or something.


I don’t know but I have noticed one thing in these Olympics and that is there’s an awful lot of female competitors who look like young guys facially .

There was always the odd dodgy looking female athlete but now it’s far more noticeable in basketball , swimming and even cycling etc etc

Maybe they are just more comfortable looking boyish with shorter , more masculine hairstyles

Just today I was watching a cycle road race and was looking at a close up .. I thought they looked like young teenage boys and I was amazed that they weren’t even slightly out if breath … then the guy explained it was the women’s race and shocked me



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https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20240804/4569d50f4455411ec09669f1d2b964e9.jpg


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[Glenn.]

They all look like women…

[Zizu]

They all look like women…


You mustn’t get out much


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[Glenn.]

You mustn’t get out much


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Could say the same to you?

You can clearly see they’re women :joker:

[Zizu]

Could say the same to you?

You can clearly see they’re women :joker:


Well the one in white looks like Michael Cera the comic actor from Juno

:)


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[GoldHeart]

Well the one in white looks like Michael Cera the comic actor from Juno

:)


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You're going down a slippery slope now ,is every female athlete going to get her gender questioned now :rolleyes: .

[Glenn.]

Well the one in white looks like Michael Cera the comic actor from Juno

:)


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Nope :)

[Ninastar]

Pics that spread out the whole layout of a thread should be BANNED imo

[Zizu]

Pics that spread out the whole layout of a thread should be BANNED imo


I think that sometimes I’m the culprit so apologies in advance

If someone can tell me the acceptable size of photos it would be ever so helpful


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[Mystic Mock]

The wheel is still spinning but the hamster is dead

:joker:

[Mystic Mock]

They all look like women…

Controversially I'm with Zizu on this one.

But I can be terrible sometimes at telling people's gender or sex.:joker:

Like on BBUSA this season, I initially thought that Quinn was a woman, so my eyesight is probably not the best.:laugh:

Edit... Just to clarify, I can tell on picture that the Italian Cyclist is a woman.

[Mystic Mock]

You're going down a slippery slope now ,is every female athlete going to get her gender questioned now :rolleyes: .

You know that's going to happen.

The Cyclists in the picture look butch imo, but I don't think that any of them are Trans or Intersex, because the Media would've reported it.

[Barry.]

You mustn’t get out much


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Go to specsavers my dear

[Quantum Boy]

The Cyclists in the picture look butch imo

FFS guys, I'm starting to suspect you think women pop into existence wearing a full face of make-up :facepalm:. They don't look like your stereotypical expectations of what a female should look like because they're cycling in the olympics, wearing cycling helmets, sports bras and no lippy. They're more muscular than most women because they're athletes competing in the olympics who have been training for years. They're not on their way to a night out.

[Mystic Mock]

FFS guys, I'm starting to suspect you think women pop into existence wearing a full face of make-up :facepalm:. They don't look like your stereotypical expectations of what a female should look like because they're cycling in the olympics, wearing cycling helmets, sports bras and no lippy. They're more muscular than most women because they're athletes competing in the olympics who have been training for years. They're not on their way to a night out.

I have no issues with it personally, in fact I respect their commitment to their Sport.

I'm just also agreeing with Zizu that they're not very feminine looking, because tbf they're not even trying to be.

I would prefer a GB athlete to look like Susan Boyle and get us a gold medal, than to look like Margot Robbie and get us no medal at all.

[Zizu]

FFS guys, I'm starting to suspect you think women pop into existence wearing a full face of make-up :facepalm:. They don't look like your stereotypical expectations of what a female should look like because they're cycling in the olympics, wearing cycling helmets, sports bras and no lippy. They're more muscular than most women because they're athletes competing in the olympics who have been training for years. They're not on their way to a night out.


You would expect female athletes to at least look ‘slightly’ feminine overall though , surely


I was watching the road race presuming they were blokes ..

That isn’t something that happened in previous games .,

It’s more noticeable this time across all sports

Its basically reflecting society maybe ?

Walking down our high streets it’s fairly common to see young women who are comfortable/confident in looking boyish

Often I’m left wondering ..

I’m not saying it’s a bad thing as it doesn’t effect me at all of course


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[Zizu]

I have no issues with it personally, in fact I respect their commitment to their Sport.

I'm just also agreeing with Zizu that they're not very feminine looking, because tbf they're not even trying to be.

I would prefer a GB athlete to look like Susan Boyle and get us a gold medal, than to look like Margot Robbie and get us no medal at all.


Na

Give me Margot Robbie lookalikes all day

Sod the medal count

:)


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[Mystic Mock]

Na

Give me Margot Robbie lookalikes all day

Sod the medal count

:)


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You'd prefer us to do ****?:laugh:

[Quantum Boy]

I would prefer a GB athlete to look like Susan Boyle and get us a gold medal, than to look like Margot Robbie and get us no medal at all.

I mean Susan Boyle is 63 so that might be slightly ambitious.

I do genuinely think this has all raised a bit of an issue though, people (with an agenda) are going to be looking at every female athlete and saying "Is THAT one secretly a man :oh: " because yes, in a lot of sports, and in full sports gear, the women are going to be bigger/more muscular/more androgenous looking than what people are "used to" as the societal expectation of women.

It's one area where games/tv/movies also doesn't help with the expectation because they're usually going for aesthetic over realism. Take Tifa as a good example I guess - her clothes actually make sense given her fighting style... her HAIR on the other hand is wildly unrealistic and would be a disaster, and if they were going for any sort of realism, Tifa's hair would be either cropped short or tied up tight.

I can think of countless similar examples from both gaming and Hollywood but I do think it can skew expectations of "what women look like", and these days that quickly slides into "well, what it they're actually a man then".

[Quantum Boy]

You would expect female athletes to at least look ‘slightly’ feminine overall though , surely


I was watching the road race presuming they were blokes ..

That isn’t something that happened in previous games .,

It’s more noticeable this time across all sports

Its basically reflecting society maybe ?

Walking down our high streets it’s fairly common to see young women who are comfortable/confident in looking boyish

Often I’m left wondering ..

I’m not saying it’s a bad thing as it doesn’t effect me at all of course


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They do look feminine. You said they look like teenage boys. I guess that's where the confusion lies.

Teenage boys in general, look slightly feminine.

What you're seeing perhaps, is women feeling less inclined to bow to the social pressure of "making sure they look feminine" and content to just look however they look, while engaging in a sport.

[Mystic Mock]

I mean Susan Boyle is 63 so that might be slightly ambitious.

I do genuinely think this has all raised a bit of an issue though, people (with an agenda) are going to be looking at every female athlete and saying "Is THAT one secretly a man :oh: " because yes, in a lot of sports, and in full sports gear, the women are going to be bigger/more muscular/more androgenous looking than what people are "used to" as the societal expectation of women.

It's one area where games/tv/movies also doesn't help with the expectation because they're usually going for aesthetic over realism. Take Tifa as a good example I guess - her clothes actually make sense given her fighting style... her HAIR on the other hand is wildly unrealistic and would be a disaster, and if they were going for any sort of realism, Tifa's hair would be either cropped short or tied up tight.

I can think of countless similar examples from both gaming and Hollywood but I do think it can skew expectations of "what women look like", and these days that quickly slides into "well, what it they're actually a man then".

No offense to modern Hollywood, but a lot of the men and women coming from that industry these days can look scary as ****.:joker:

Unless of course they take from Australia or Israel it seems.

I agree with you on Tifa's realism btw.:laugh:

But I wouldn't have Tifa's look be any different.

[Zizu]

This is what we want ..

https://youtube.com/shorts/cuiz6iZ6VA0?si=H8g0tpu6mVe5siyk


wDIaINAkZL4


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[Quantum Boy]

No offense to modern Hollywood, but a lot of the men and women coming from that industry these days can look scary as ****.:joker:
I do have to be fair and say it's "not just women" when it comes to Hollywood (or games, for that matter) - unrealistic body standards are rife, all of the big Hollywood guys are juicing (steroids and testosterone) and a lot of game characters are designed with that same look as well. No one can look like that without ... erm ... "chemical enhancement". Worth noting I think that the male olympic athletes also don't look like Thor...

[Quantum Boy]

This is what we want ..

https://youtube.com/shorts/cuiz6iZ6VA0?si=H8g0tpu6mVe5siyk


wDIaINAkZL4


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Gross and objectifying as ever Zizu it's good to see you really leaning into it these days.

[Zizu]

Gross and objectifying as ever Zizu it's good to see you really leaning into it these days.


Ta


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[Mystic Mock]

I do have to be fair and say it's "not just women" when it comes to Hollywood (or games, for that matter) - unrealistic body standards are rife, all of the big Hollywood guys are juicing (steroids and testosterone) and a lot of game characters are designed with that same look as well. No one can look like that without ... erm ... "chemical enhancement". Worth noting I think that the male olympic athletes also don't look like Thor...

I would say that a lot of Hollywood Actors these days are unattractive imo, I mean yeah they're still more attractive than people like myself, Wayne Rooney, and Susan Boyle, and probably the odd other person.

But I can honestly count on my one hand genuinely attractive people in Hollywood at the moment, that hasn't been in the industry for decades at this point.

Tbh the western world likes to promote unattractive people these days, again it's not the end of the world, but it's something that I have definitely noticed.

I mean I'll probably get an Aftershave Advert soon with Wayne Rooney and Steve Cooper.:joker:

[Mystic Mock]

This is what we want ..

https://youtube.com/shorts/cuiz6iZ6VA0?si=H8g0tpu6mVe5siyk


wDIaINAkZL4


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She didn't win the event though.

[Zizu]

She didn't win the event though.


She’s always happy and makes everyones day though


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[Mystic Mock]

She’s always happy and makes everyones day though


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I'm gathering that she makes your day.:joker:

Tbf though, there's nothing wrong with fancying her tbh.

We all have people that we fancy, god I've really fancied Reality TV contestants in the past, and that's definitely sad.:joker:

[Quantum Boy]

I would say that a lot of Hollywood Actors these days are unattractive imo, I mean yeah they're still more attractive than people like myself, Wayne Rooney, and Susan Boyle, and probably the odd other person.

But I can honestly count on my one hand genuinely attractive people in Hollywood at the moment, that hasn't been in the industry for decades at this point.

Tbh the western world likes to promote unattractive people these days, again it's not the end of the world, but it's something that I have definitely noticed.

I mean I'll probably get an Aftershave Advert soon with Wayne Rooney and Steve Cooper.:joker:

:shrug: I wouldn't say I necessarily agree, more that there aren't many "up and comers" at all in Hollywood or the entertainment industry in general at the moment. The industry is in a very strange place at the moment.

[Quantum Boy]

god I've really fancied Reality TV contestants in the past, and that's definitely sad.:joker:

I would say it's more normal if anything, attraction to people isn't just about what they look like and with reality telly you get more of an idea of "who someone is" as an actual person not just them physically.

Have to say I'm pretty much 100% like that with attraction in general, if you show me a picture of someone and say "is this person attractive" my usual thought is "I don't know I haven't seen them say or do anything". Likewise, with scripted media I can tell you if I find a character attractive - I have no idea if I think the actor is attractive though, unless I've seen them give interviews, etc... and sometimes the answer is yes to the character, no to the actor, or vice versa.

I think there's a name for it somewhere on the LGBTQ identity spectrum but I don't remember what that is :joker:.

[Crimson Dynamo]

��HAPPENING NOW��

The International Boxing Association is holding a press conference in Paris to address the issues surrounding Algerian boxer Imane Khelif and Taiwanese boxer Lin Yu-Ting.

Highlights so far:

*Both boxers were initially subjected to a chromosomal test by an independent laboratory in Istanbul after the IBA received complaints from coaches and competitors during the 2022 Women's World Boxing Championships.

*Both boxers were re-tested in India again during the 2023 Women's World Boxing Championships to clarify and confirm prior results.

*Both boxers were found to have XY chromosomes.

*Both boxers were informed of the results of the tests in writing.

*Both boxers were given the opportunity to appeal the findings to the Court of Arbitration for Sport.

*The IBA offered to pay for the majority of the costs to allow both boxers to appeal.

*Lin Yu-Ting did not appeal the decision.

*Imane Khelif appealed the decision, and then withdrew the appeal.

[Nicky91]

��HAPPENING NOW��

The International Boxing Association is holding a press conference in Paris to address the issues surrounding Algerian boxer Imane Khelif and Taiwanese boxer Lin Yu-Ting.

Highlights so far:

*Both boxers were initially subjected to a chromosomal test by an independent laboratory in Istanbul after the IBA received complaints from coaches and competitors during the 2022 Women's World Boxing Championships.

*Both boxers were re-tested in India again during the 2023 Women's World Boxing Championships to clarify and confirm prior results.

*Both boxers were found to have XY chromosomes.

*Both boxers were informed of the results of the tests in writing.

*Both boxers were given the opportunity to appeal the findings to the Court of Arbitration for Sport.

*The IBA offered to pay for the majority of the costs to allow both boxers to appeal.

*Lin Yu-Ting did not appeal the decision.

*Imane Khelif appealed the decision, and then withdrew the appeal.

so they are transwomen after all


and they keep denying and lying about this, VILE


kick both men out of the tournament i say but the woke IOC won't do that of course

[Niamh.]

They're not trans Nicky, they have a DSD, I'm not sure anyone was ever disputing that?

[Glenn.]

��HAPPENING NOW��

The International Boxing Association is holding a press conference in Paris to address the issues surrounding Algerian boxer Imane Khelif and Taiwanese boxer Lin Yu-Ting.

Highlights so far:

*Both boxers were initially subjected to a chromosomal test by an independent laboratory in Istanbul after the IBA received complaints from coaches and competitors during the 2022 Women's World Boxing Championships.

*Both boxers were re-tested in India again during the 2023 Women's World Boxing Championships to clarify and confirm prior results.

*Both boxers were found to have XY chromosomes.

*Both boxers were informed of the results of the tests in writing.

*Both boxers were given the opportunity to appeal the findings to the Court of Arbitration for Sport.

*The IBA offered to pay for the majority of the costs to allow both boxers to appeal.

*Lin Yu-Ting did not appeal the decision.

*Imane Khelif appealed the decision, and then withdrew the appeal.

Old news that turns out to be fake news

[Zizu]

��HAPPENING NOW��

The International Boxing Association is holding a press conference in Paris to address the issues surrounding Algerian boxer Imane Khelif and Taiwanese boxer Lin Yu-Ting.

Highlights so far:

*Both boxers were initially subjected to a chromosomal test by an independent laboratory in Istanbul after the IBA received complaints from coaches and competitors during the 2022 Women's World Boxing Championships.

*Both boxers were re-tested in India again during the 2023 Women's World Boxing Championships to clarify and confirm prior results.

*Both boxers were found to have XY chromosomes.

*Both boxers were informed of the results of the tests in writing.

*Both boxers were given the opportunity to appeal the findings to the Court of Arbitration for Sport.

*The IBA offered to pay for the majority of the costs to allow both boxers to appeal.

*Lin Yu-Ting did not appeal the decision.

*Imane Khelif appealed the decision, and then withdrew the appeal.


Both have XY chromosomes … ‘generally’ meaning they were born male - you can see why everyone is either up in arms or just simply confused

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20240805/787079f6a44697c5880d5cb6d42f58f3.jpg





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[Quantum Boy]

Both have XY chromosomes … ‘generally’ meaning they were born male - you can see why everyone is either up in arms or just simply confused

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20240805/787079f6a44697c5880d5cb6d42f58f3.jpg






Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
Because real intersex conditions exist, which is why this is totally separate to (yet of course, overshadowed by) the "trans debate".

In short, people who are genetically male can be born with a vagina and may-or-may-not undergo male puberty (increased testosterone, increased muscle mass and bone density).

Its not a cut and dry issue at all, it's a very complicated one and it's unfortunate that the whole thing is now 100x more difficult because of the current issues around transgenderism (again, a totally different thing, though some may disagree even there).

[Nicky91]

ok fair enough Niamh.

but it's still sort of advantage over the other women, however should you make her ineligible to compete just because of having some disorder to your body she can't help having, no, because she can't compete in the men's events either



sorry its just making me too stressed out

[Beso]

Paralympic Games. Maybe they would be best competing there. In their own categories.

[Niamh.]

ok fair enough Niamh.

but it's still sort of advantage over the other women, however should you make her ineligible to compete just because of having some disorder to your body she can't help having, no, because she can't compete in the men's events either



sorry its just making me too stressed outLots of people can't compete in the Olympics Nicky for lots of different reasons, safety for the other competitors should be the very top priority here. If these two have gone through male puberty they shouldn't be able to compete in the female category

[Glenn.]

Paralympic Games. Maybe they would be best competing there. In their own categories.

:facepalm:

[Nicky91]

as if any female boxer looks any feminine with all honesty

i mean Lucia Rijker, in my nation back in the day was considered most dangerous woman in the world, even won a oscar in a film alongside Clint Eastwood about boxing, Million Dollar Baby


as if Ms Rijker looked any feminine


but honestly, in a sport like boxing, regardless of gender, you just need to have a good amount of muscle, masculine figure to have a chance at doing well

[Liam-]

They're not trans Nicky, they have a DSD, I'm not sure anyone was ever disputing that?

The media headlines and viral tweets calling her transgender would disagree

[Zizu]

Paralympic Games. Maybe they would be best competing there. In their own categories.


Great idea … because as soon one of them seriously hurts an opponent there will be valls to ban boxing and UFC for good


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[Mystic Mock]

:shrug: I wouldn't say I necessarily agree, more that there aren't many "up and comers" at all in Hollywood or the entertainment industry in general at the moment. The industry is in a very strange place at the moment.

That's a fair point.

And tbf having said what I'd said in my previous post, Shogun did have Mariko and Fallout did have Lucy MacLean (as the Show always loved to refer to her as) so I suppose there are still some attractive people in Hollywood that haven't been super famous in the industry for multiple decades.

And I do agree with you that the industry is lacking any breakthrough talent at the moment, where someone is making it big off one major role, and then landing a huge acting career off of it.

[Mystic Mock]

I would say it's more normal if anything, attraction to people isn't just about what they look like and with reality telly you get more of an idea of "who someone is" as an actual person not just them physically.

Have to say I'm pretty much 100% like that with attraction in general, if you show me a picture of someone and say "is this person attractive" my usual thought is "I don't know I haven't seen them say or do anything". Likewise, with scripted media I can tell you if I find a character attractive - I have no idea if I think the actor is attractive though, unless I've seen them give interviews, etc... and sometimes the answer is yes to the character, no to the actor, or vice versa.

I think there's a name for it somewhere on the LGBTQ identity spectrum but I don't remember what that is :joker:.

Personality can definitely help with attraction I do agree with you on that.

But personally for me there has to be some level of physical attraction there too.

[Zizu]

Personality can definitely help with attraction I do agree with you on that.

But personally for me there has to be some level of physical attraction there too.


Its a complex issue..

I am a sucker for a pretty face and regularly fall immediately in love with a gorgeous face online or on holiday or whatever


I jest .. not in love but certainly something happens that muddles my brain for a few moments


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[The Slim Reaper]

I thought the "what is a woman" question was really easy to answer. Interesting to see, in real time, some people realising that might not be the case. Hmmm :think:

[Mystic Mock]

Its a complex issue..

I am a sucker for a pretty face and regularly fall immediately in love with a gorgeous face online or on holiday or whatever


I jest .. not in love but certainly something happens that muddles my brain for a few moments


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

I get that looks alone isn't necessarily going to lead to a good romantic relationship.

But I do believe that there has to be some physical attraction there, because I doubt that most people hookup with each other thinking that their partner looks physically repulsive.

[Livia]

Well this conversation has moved on swiftly from women having to fight biological men.

[Quantum Boy]

I thought the "what is a woman" question was really easy to answer. Interesting to see, in real time, some people realising that might not be the case. Hmmm :think:

It's still not all that complicated in terms of the trans debate. Intersex conditions exist but are extremely rare, and if anything, I find it problematic, sad & very unfortunate that a genuinely intersex individual, it seems, may have been caught up in the politics of gender identity. When it has little if anything to do with gender identity in the modern context whatsoever. Intersex is not trans.

[Livia]

What is a man?

[Quantum Boy]

What is a man?

Sheriff! :flutter:

[Mystic Mock]

Well this conversation has moved on swiftly from women having to fight biological men.

:laugh:

I think Khelif is boxing today isn't she?

[Livia]

:laugh:

I think Khelif is boxing today isn't she?

I have no interest in it any more. I won't watch unfairness at this level.

[Niamh.]

Kellie Harrington is fighting for Gold for Ireland tonight, thankfully she's in a different weight class to all the controversy

[Livia]

Kellie Harrington is fighting for Gold for Ireland tonight, thankfully she's in a different weight class to all the controversy

Good luck to her. Thank God she's not affected.

[Zizu]

Kellie Harrington is fighting for Gold for Ireland tonight, thankfully she's in a different weight class to all the controversy


Yes her opponent seems like a nice girl https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20240806/a35c4f838bf9b806e90acd3b7363036c.jpg


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[The Slim Reaper]

It's still not all that complicated in terms of the trans debate. Intersex conditions exist but are extremely rare, and if anything, I find it problematic, sad & very unfortunate that a genuinely intersex individual, it seems, may have been caught up in the politics of gender identity. When it has little if anything to do with gender identity in the modern context whatsoever. Intersex is not trans.

Remind me, how has this person been caught up in the politics of gender identity?

[Quantum Boy]

Remind me, how has this person been caught up in the politics of gender identity?

In my opinion?

1) Because people are (in general) not all that capable of nuanced thinking and can't conceptualise that "sports and intersex conditions" and "sports and transgenderism" are similar, but entirely separate, discussions.

2) The issues around transwomen in women's sports should have been sensibly and reasonably examined before now -- long before now -- and decisions made on the grounds of research and safety, not what "feels right and seems fair".

3) That has not been able to happen because of the public discourse around gender ideology and gender politics. It's not a safe arena for study, and it's almost impossible to filter out the good faith, unbiased results from the flood of agenda-driven chaff from both angles.

4) Thus there is no room for any actual discussion around intersex conditions and equality/safety in sports because of 1).

[The Slim Reaper]

In my opinion?

1) Because people are (in general) not all that capable of nuanced thinking and can't conceptualise that "sports and intersex conditions" and "sports and transgenderism" are similar, but entirely separate, discussions.

2) The issues around transwomen in women's sports should have been sensibly and reasonably examined before now -- long before now -- and decisions made on the grounds of research and safety, not what "feels right and seems fair".

3) That has not been able to happen because of the public discourse around gender ideology and gender politics. It's not a safe arena for study, and it's almost impossible to filter out the good faith, unbiased results from the flood of agenda-driven chaff from both angles.

4) Thus there is no room for any actual discussion around intersex conditions and equality/safety in sports because of 1).

My mistake, I thought it was because of a massive pile on from the same childrens authors, tv stations, and social media personalities as always.

In relation to 3, I was pleased to see that the BMA have recently picked up the cass report for a proper medical/scientific review.

[Quantum Boy]

My mistake, I thought it was because of a massive pile on from the same childrens authors, tv stations, and social media personalities as always.

In relation to 3, I was pleased to see that the BMA have recently picked up the cass report for a proper medical/scientific review.

As with the riots thread the mechanism and the reason isn't the same thing - and again I'd use the metaphor of seeing a flood and blaming the rain. Where we're at is a disaster but the path to getting here is an awful lot more complicated than "people are just bigots who don't like trans". And that's not even to say that a lot of those people don't exist. Sort of like... woodlice exist... and they're going to start crawling out from under your skirting board if you don't keep the floorboards dry, and they'll keep coming.

I'm not feeling very charitable about people after this weekend apparently :umm2:.

[The Slim Reaper]

As with the riots thread the mechanism and the reason isn't the same thing - and again I'd use the metaphor of seeing a flood and blaming the rain. Where we're at is a disaster but the path to getting here is an awful lot more complicated than "people are just bigots who don't like trans". And that's not even to say that a lot of those people don't exist. Sort of like... woodlice exist... and they're going to start crawling out from under your skirting board if you don't keep the floorboards dry, and they'll keep coming.

I'm not feeling very charitable about people after this weekend apparently :umm2:.

Come on dude. No one has talked more about the nuance around these issues than we have, but there is no nuance about how this happened. It's not her first Olympics, yet this is the first problematic one. JK Rowling and her merry band of far right affiliates haven't shown a single curious thought on this.

I don't doubt that you see it as a complex issue, but you weren't the one screaming about her to begin with.

[Quantum Boy]

Come on dude. No one has talked more about the nuance around these issues than we have, but there is no nuance about how this happened. It's not her first Olympics, yet this is the first problematic one. JK Rowling and her merry band of far right affiliates haven't shown a single curious thought on this.

I don't doubt that you see it as a complex issue, but you weren't the one screaming about her to begin with.

I don't deny at all that a door has been left wide open to the "right", I just don't think that spawned out of thin air, nor do I think it's the "fault" of anyone in particular, other than anti-intellectualism as a broad concept that spans the entire political spectrum. They don't have a single curious thought about anything whatsoever, that's my point really. Woodlice. They're just "there", and stomping on them might be satisfying but there'll just be more tomorrow. And JK Rowling might be extremely famous and a billionaire but she's at the end of the day just as reactionary as the rest of them, with a bigger platform. I genuinely believe she started out well-meaning. I think there are clear indications that at this point she's unwittingly become marginally radicalised.

Remember when Gove said that the British public are "tired of hearing from experts"? He wasn't wrong, other than the part where it's not just the UK. Very angry, very loud progressives fought (and still fight, hard) against academics concerned with anything resembling reasonable compromise. It's a tactic that can be traced directly to Stonewall.

There's no nuance in describing WHAT has happened in this case but of course there's nuance and complexity in trying to examine how we got here and dividing the issue neatly into goodies and baddies is a huge oversimplification.

[Ammi]

Kellie Harrington is fighting for Gold for Ireland tonight, thankfully she's in a different weight class to all the controversy

…yeah, was Kellie in the same class weight previously…as she has fought…(…and beaten Imane Khelif in the past, hasn’t she…)…

[Niamh.]

…yeah, was Kellie in the same class weight previously…as she has fought…(…and beaten Imane Khelif in the past, hasn’t she…)…

She won in 2020 yeah, Imane barely landed a punch on her

[Niamh.]

Come on dude. No one has talked more about the nuance around these issues than we have, but there is no nuance about how this happened. It's not her first Olympics, yet this is the first problematic one. JK Rowling and her merry band of far right affiliates haven't shown a single curious thought on this.

I don't doubt that you see it as a complex issue, but you weren't the one screaming about her to begin with.

tbf from what I've read that's because in between this and the last Olympics both of the boxers in question failed tests under IBA and were not allowed to compete in the World Championships in 2023, obviously that would then raise questions

[Ammi]

She won in 2020 yeah, Imane barely landed a punch on her

…yeah, I watched (…some …)…of that bout when I read that Imane had, had what seemed like some convincing losses as well…Katie looked great in the bit I saw so hopefully that hold is hers…so one of the ladies has gone down a weight or gone up a weight in the last 4 years as they’re not fighting together…?..

[Niamh.]

…yeah, I watched (…some …)…of that bout when I read that Imane had, had what seemed like some convincing losses as well…Katie looked great in the bit I saw so hopefully that hold is hers…so one of the ladies has gone down a weight or gone up a weight in the last 4 years as they’re not fighting together…?..

Kellie has always fought at lightweight I think so must be Imane changed weight? (I'm not 100% sure on that though)

[Ammi]

tbf from what I've read that's because in between this and the last Olympics both of the boxers in question failed tests under IBA and were not allowed to compete in the World Championships in 2023, obviously that would then raise questions

…it’s more layers of complications on that as well, I think…in that the IBA is a body that were banned from the Olympics in 2019 because of continued disputes about decisions/type thing…so nothing about this seems entirely clear with the ‘elevated levels’ also…

[Ammi]

Kellie has always fought at lightweight I think so must be Imane changed weight? (I'm not 100% sure on that though)

…Imane Khelif…(…I’m just reading atm…)…is fighting at welterweight but I’m not up on all of the different weight categories…

[Niamh.]

…it’s more layers of complications on that as well, I think…in that the IBA is a body that were banned from the Olympics in 2019 because of continued disputes about decisions/type thing…so nothing about this seems entirely clear with the ‘elevated levels’ also…

Yeah that's true, there was some shocking ref decisions in the 2016 Olympics especially, Michael Conlan getting beat by a Russian fighter was one of the worst and also Katie suffered from a bad decision that year, both of them went pro after that (probably because of that)

[Niamh.]

…Imane Khelif…(…I’m just reading atm…)…is fighting at welterweight but I’m not up on all of the different weight categories…

Yeah, that's the weight above Lightweight

[Ammi]

Yeah that's true, there was some shocking ref decisions in the 2016 Olympics especially, Michael Conlan getting beat by a Russian fighter was one of the worst and also Katie suffered from a bad decision that year, both of them went pro after that (probably because of that)

…the IBA are a Russian body…(…I believe, but I might be incorrect about that…)…and have had ‘bias’ levelled at them…and yeah, it just all adds to the confusion of it all…

[The Slim Reaper]

tbf from what I've read that's because in between this and the last Olympics both of the boxers in question failed tests under IBA and were not allowed to compete in the World Championships in 2023, obviously that would then raise questions

From what I've read, the IBA is supposed to be extremely corrupt, with lots of Russian money flowing through it. The initial complaint against her was made by a beaten Russian boxer. I can't be 100% on the validity of this, as obviously this is the age of misinformation, but it seems to check out.

[Beso]

She will be able to fight in both weights, depending on the level of excitement shes experiencing.

[Niamh.]

…the IBA are a Russian body…(…I believe, but I might be incorrect about that…)…and have had ‘bias’ levelled at them…and yeah, it just all adds to the confusion of it all…

Ah that would explain a few things alright

[Ammi]

Yeah, that's the weight above Lightweight

…so Imane must have gone up a weight since the last Olympics, then… good luck to Katie for later, she’s an excellent athlete from the bit I saw of her fight…

[Ammi]

From what I've read, the IBA is supposed to be extremely corrupt, with lots of Russian money flowing through it. The initial complaint against her was made by a beaten Russian boxer. I can't be 100% on the validity of this, as obviously this is the age of misinformation, but it seems to check out.

…yeah, I just couldn’t think of that word I was searching for…’corrupt’…:laugh:…so I said bias, but yeah…I would say that ‘corrupt’ in the decision as an equal possibility as ‘elevated testosterone levels..’…that’s the thing, it feels so messy all through, doesn’t it…

[Niamh.]

From what I've read, the IBA is supposed to be extremely corrupt, with lots of Russian money flowing through it. The initial complaint against her was made by a beaten Russian boxer. I can't be 100% on the validity of this, as obviously this is the age of misinformation, but it seems to check out.

Cheeky considering some of horrific decisions favouring Russian fighters back in 2016. Yeah, I know, there's so much conflicting information floating around out there on this.

[Niamh.]

…so Imane must have gone up a weight since the last Olympics, then… good luck to Katie for later, she’s an excellent athlete from the bit I saw of her fight…

It's Kellie fighting not Katie. Katie went pro a few years ago :love:

[Ammi]

It's Kellie fighting not Katie. Katie went pro a few years ago :love:

…yep, sorry…good luck to Kellie…(…and to Katie when she fights next, I’ll be the first to wish her good luck…)

[Niamh.]

…yep, sorry…good luck to Kellie…(…and to Katie when she fights next, I’ll be the first to wish her good luck…)

:laugh:

[Ammi]

…for me, it’s all about whether there was an ‘advantaged athlete’ in the event and competing because that would be equivalent surely to someone having taken performance enhanced drugs and it being allowed…?…and I’m honestly not qualified enough to say whether Imane could be classified as an advantaged athlete…I do understand though that another competitor can’t be seriously harmed while that’s uncertain…so it really is a mess of a thing for all ladies and the competition in general…

[The Slim Reaper]

…yeah, I just couldn’t think of that word I was searching for…’corrupt’…:laugh:…so I said bias, but yeah…I would say that ‘corrupt’ in the decision as an equal possibility as ‘elevated testosterone levels..’…that’s the thing, it feels so messy all through, doesn’t it…

The thing is, world class athletes pretty much all have these anomalies. Michael Phelps has double jointed ankles and his muscles produce only half the amount of lactic acid as his competitors, and loads of other things I can't remember or be bothered to look up, but there is zero controversy around him being the most successful winner of all time.

Lebron James is 6'9, around 280lbs, but can sprint down the basketball court faster than anyone else.

Anomalies like these crop up in all competitive sports.

[Ammi]

…I do feel, though…while the controversies and culture wars rage on around them, women themselves are the ones getting lost in it all…

[Niamh.]

…for me, it’s all about whether there was an ‘advantaged athlete’ in the event and competing because that would be equivalent surely to someone having taken performance enhanced drugs and it being allowed…?…and I’m honestly not qualified enough to say whether Imane could be classified as an advantaged athlete…I do understand though that another competitor can’t be seriously harmed while that’s uncertain…so it really is a mess of a thing for all ladies and the competition in general…

Absolutely

[Ammi]

The thing is, world class athletes pretty much all have these anomalies. Michael Phelps has double jointed ankles and his muscles produce only half the amount of lactic acid as his competitors, and loads of other things I can't remember or be bothered to look up, but there is zero controversy around him being the most successful winner of all time.

Lebron James is 6'9, around 280lbs, but can sprint down the basketball court faster than anyone else.

Anomalies like these crop up in all competitive sports.

…absolutely there is always going to be specifics and differences/peculiarities etc that can impact a performance and make exceptional athletes …with testosterone levels, though…it does have to be looked at more closely as it’s something more specific that we know tips that balance of ‘unfair’ at certain ‘enhanced’ levels ….

[Niamh.]

The thing is, world class athletes pretty much all have these anomalies. Michael Phelps has double jointed ankles and his muscles produce only half the amount of lactic acid as his competitors, and loads of other things I can't remember or be bothered to look up, but there is zero controversy around him being the most successful winner of all time.

Lebron James is 6'9, around 280lbs, but can sprint down the basketball court faster than anyone else.

Anomalies like these crop up in all competitive sports.

It's not the same thing though to actually having a Y chromosome (which is what IBA claimed their testing showed) and competing in the female category, the differences between males and females are just too great, it's the whole reason why the sports are separated by sex in the first place. For me the issue is if these tests were accurate or were the tampered with/lied about by IBA. There seems to be no clarity around that

[The Slim Reaper]

It's not the same thing though to actually having a Y chromosome (which is what IBA claimed their testing showed) and competing in the female category, the differences between males and females are just too great, it's the whole reason why the sports are separated by sex in the first place. For me the issue is if these tests were accurate or were the tampered with/lied about by IBA. There seems to be no clarity around that

Imane is not a male though. She has been cleared to fight by the Olympic committee, not pride.

Genetic advantages are genetic advantages. They may manifest in totally different variations, but they absolutely exist, and give one competitor a massive advantage over another. She has lost 9 fights - she does not have any kind of advantage. This happened because an Italian woman gave up, and because she was probably embarrassed went on the attack (pity she didn't do that in the ring, but hey), and was fortunate enough to have found solace in the arms of Joanne.

I don't want to see a man fighting women, and so it's good that it isn't happening.

[Glenn.]

It's not the same thing though to actually having a Y chromosome (which is what IBA claimed their testing showed) and competing in the female category, the differences between males and females are just too great, it's the whole reason why the sports are separated by sex in the first place. For me the issue is if these tests were accurate or were the tampered with/lied about by IBA. There seems to be no clarity around that

Well I think the IBA are corrupt. I’ve read that they are not allowed any part of the Olympics.

[Niamh.]

Imane is not a male though. She has been cleared to fight by the Olympic committee, not pride.

Genetic advantages are genetic advantages. They may manifest in totally different variations, but they absolutely exist, and give one competitor a massive advantage over another. She has lost 9 fights - she does not have any kind of advantage. This happened because an Italian woman gave up, and because she was probably embarrassed went on the attack (pity she didn't do that in the ring, but hey), and was fortunate enough to have found solace in the arms of Joanne.

I don't want to see a man fighting women, and so it's good that it isn't happening.

There's no need for the sarcasm. It was IBA who claimed that both the fighters in question had the Y chromosome in that recent press conference. I'm not saying that it's true but one of the organisations here are wrong (or their testing is wrong), it could very well be IBA but it is also possible that its the IOC testing that's flawed. IBA also claim that neither fighter appealed the decisions when they were ruled out by the tests (actually Imane did originally but later withdrew the appeal)

[Liam-]

So now we just blindly believe a Russian corporation that had their olympics right stripped from them due to corruption do we? Where’s the evidence of these ‘gender tests’ ever taking place? Or the results?

[Niamh.]

Well I think the IBA are corrupt. I’ve read that they are not allowed any part of the Olympics.

Quite possibly, but neither of these fighters appealed the decision at the time (Imane did but then withdrew the appeal).

[The Slim Reaper]

There's no need for the sarcasm. It was IBA who claimed that both the fighters in question had the Y chromosome in that recent press conference. I'm not saying that it's true but one of the organisations here are wrong (or their testing is wrong), it could very well be IBA but it is also possible that its the IOC testing that's flawed. IBA also claim that neither fighter appealed the decisions when they were ruled out by the tests (actually Imane did originally but later withdrew the appeal)

Out of respect for you, I'll exit this conversation. .

[Ammi]

Claus Højbjerg Gravholt, a professor of genetic endocrinology, said it is impossible to state everyone with a Y chromosome is a male and everyone with an X chromosome is a female.

Professor Højbjerg Gravholt, who is based at Aarhus University in Denmark and works with patients who have differences in sex development, added: “If I showed you pictures of my patients without any clothes on, you would say, well, these are females that I'm looking at.

“But, in fact, they actually have a Y chromosome. And so it’s really coming back to, what is sex? Is sex something you can see out of the chromosomes? No, it’s not. Is sex something that you can see depending on which hormone, estrogen, or testosterone you preferentially produce? No, it’s not. Sex is much more complicated.”



…for me she’s definitely a female and I don’t know whether I’m completely off base in thinking in terms of ‘advantaged athlete’ and elevated testosterone levels but……ughhhhh, this is a contact sport and it would be careless and lacking in safety to consider there may be an advantage that would make for an ‘unfair fight’…I don’t know if that could be said or not with this case because I have been considering that she’s had losses as well and some really quite convincing ones…/…and that’s part of what makes this all so layered in confusion….

[The Slim Reaper]

Claus Højbjerg Gravholt, a professor of genetic endocrinology, said it is impossible to state everyone with a Y chromosome is a male and everyone with an X chromosome is a female.

Professor Højbjerg Gravholt, who is based at Aarhus University in Denmark and works with patients who have differences in sex development, added: “If I showed you pictures of my patients without any clothes on, you would say, well, these are females that I'm looking at.

“But, in fact, they actually have a Y chromosome. And so it’s really coming back to, what is sex? Is sex something you can see out of the chromosomes? No, it’s not. Is sex something that you can see depending on which hormone, estrogen, or testosterone you preferentially produce? No, it’s not. Sex is much more complicated.”



…for me she’s definitely a female and I don’t know whether I’m completely off base in thinking in terms of ‘advantaged athlete’ and elevated testosterone levels but……ughhhhh, this is a contact sport and it would be careless and lacking in safety to consider there may be an advantage that would make for an ‘unfair fight’…I don’t know if that could be said or not with this case because I have been considering that she’s had losses as well and some really quite convincing ones…/…and that’s part of what makes this all so layered in confusion….


Just in relation to testosterone - I'm not an expert, but we all have very different levels. Take Joe Rogan - looks like a shaved chimp. Stocky, and built like a bulldog. He's a really good fighter (he may even have a chance against sheriff. Maybe.), looks like a "real man" (apart from the height - no offence to the short kings out there), yet he has to dose himself up on testosterone because his levels are so low.

There is absolutely no one size fits all rule, when it comes to our T levels.

[Ammi]

Just in relation to testosterone - I'm not an expert, but we all have very different levels. Take Joe Rogan - looks like a shaved chimp. Stocky, and built like a bulldog. He's a really good fighter (he may even have a chance against sheriff. Maybe.), looks like a "real man" (apart from the height - no offence to the short kings out there), yet he has to dose himself up on testosterone because his levels are so low.

There is absolutely no one size fits all rule, when it comes to our T levels.

…yeah, I’m totally taking on board what you’re saying and I always feel that one size fits all rarely applies to things in general because we have to look at the specific differences and variations etc as well as the similarities that are being compared, you know…

…an elevated testerone level in females can be caused by varying things and polycystic ovary syndrome is quite a main one, I think…for example…I guess I’m also factoring in that testerone levels or ‘elevated’ testerone levels specifically in sport/competition have always had that strong link to performance enhancement drugs also, hence it all being monitored quite closely…but yeah, absolutely those levels do vary but the complication or confusion with Imane’s specific case as well has become a bit blurry by the thing that one sporting body did ban her from competing…yeah, possibly quite a dubious/corrupt sporting body but it still leaves that haze of thought…

[Quantum Boy]

Just in relation to testosterone - I'm not an expert, but we all have very different levels. Take Joe Rogan - looks like a shaved chimp. Stocky, and built like a bulldog. He's a really good fighter (he may even have a chance against sheriff. Maybe.), looks like a "real man" (apart from the height - no offence to the short kings out there), yet he has to dose himself up on testosterone because his levels are so low.

There is absolutely no one size fits all rule, when it comes to our T levels.

With Rogan that's more likely to be an age thing, I think it's unlikely he's always had low T. I'm also a touch skeptical that his natural levels are as low as he says - I'd be entirely unsurprised if he was just doing a bit of juicing. It's increasingly common even in local gyms, and even moreso stateside/with male celebrities. All of 'em are on TRT and most of them a little bit of anabolic steroids for some seasoning.

Much harder to build muscle with low testosterone and basically impossible to get "big"/jacked.

Overall strength/muscle and bone density are more to do with the process of male puberty though, than someone's current T levels. Which is why the idea that someone who transitioned post-puberty and went on hormone replacement will always have a biological advantage over females. Though they'll also no longer be able to compete with men. :shrug: my honest thoughts are it just has to be part of the decision making process when considering hormonal transition, if interested in pro sports. It just takes it off the table. Unless they have a "trans league". But I don't think many people would be interested in that (understandably).

[Zizu]

Just in relation to testosterone - I'm not an expert, but we all have very different levels. Take Joe Rogan - looks like a shaved chimp. Stocky, and built like a bulldog. He's a really good fighter (he may even have a chance against sheriff. Maybe.), looks like a "real man" (apart from the height - no offence to the short kings out there), yet he has to dose himself up on testosterone because his levels are so low.

There is absolutely no one size fits all rule, when it comes to our T levels.


Crazy to think that Joe Rogan started off as a stand up comedian !!

Just can’t imagine him cracking jokes

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20240806/06ce0e05a87a768952c5701098b6c26c.jpg


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[Quantum Boy]

Crazy to think that Joe Rogan started off as a stand up comedian !!

Just can’t imagine him cracking jokes


He doesn't need to crack jokes these days, he just gets flat-earthers etc. onto his podcast. They are the joke.

[Mystic Mock]

The thing is, world class athletes pretty much all have these anomalies. Michael Phelps has double jointed ankles and his muscles produce only half the amount of lactic acid as his competitors, and loads of other things I can't remember or be bothered to look up, but there is zero controversy around him being the most successful winner of all time.

Lebron James is 6'9, around 280lbs, but can sprint down the basketball court faster than anyone else.

Anomalies like these crop up in all competitive sports.

The only difference is here is that we are talking about a combat Sport, where any huge Biological advantages could lead to the opponent getting seriously hurt under the wrong circumstances.

[Zizu]

He doesn't need to crack jokes these days, he just gets flat-earthers etc. onto his podcast. They are the joke.


He was supposedly known for his quick wit !!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[The Slim Reaper]

The only difference is here is that we are talking about a combat Sport, where any huge Biological advantages could lead to the opponent getting seriously hurt under the wrong circumstances.

It's two women fighting each other. No more needs to be said. Deontay Wilder is considered the hardest punching heavy weight in history, is that too much of an advantage, so that he should be banned?

She learned to box because she had to fight the boys in her village who all bullied her for her non-conformist appearance. Now, normally, that story in itself would illicit a reaction of solidarity from females in particular, but instead, some people may think the bullies didn't go far enough, it seems.

Maybe her advantage is really the fact she's been boxing boys from a very young age, and probably has at least 4/5 years of extra training on most other women, although that's a guess as I have no idea what age girls generally pick up the sport.

I just don't get where this is coming from. No other woman has cried about her, and even the Italian woman has come back out and apologised. Embarrassment can force people to act in really weird ways, and that shouldn't be pandered to imo.

[GiRTh]

Deontay Wilder is a good example. All he had was that one punch power. He has a more impressive KO records than Mike Tyson, so that power was real, but its all he had. In that respect he is like Khelif.

It looks like the Italian fighter bottled it so I'm not gonna be as harsh on Khelif as in the past.

[The Slim Reaper]

Deontay Wilder is a good example. All he had was that one punch power. He has a more impressive KO records than Mike Tyson, so that power was real, but its all he had. In that respect he is like Khelif.

It looks like the Italian fighter bottled it so I'm not gonna be as harsh on Khelif as in the past.

https://media.tenor.com/6FwBg2HbmKgAAAAM/denzel-training-day.gif

[GiRTh]

She looked good today, but still not a fan.

[Zizu]

She looked good today, but still not a fan.


I think ‘she’ is a dirty fighter .. not content with being stronger and easily able to take punches ‘she’ was manhandling her smaller opponent and even had her in a headlock at one point


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[Mystic Mock]

It's two women fighting each other. No more needs to be said. Deontay Wilder is considered the hardest punching heavy weight in history, is that too much of an advantage, so that he should be banned?

She learned to box because she had to fight the boys in her village who all bullied her for her non-conformist appearance. Now, normally, that story in itself would illicit a reaction of solidarity from females in particular, but instead, some people may think the bullies didn't go far enough, it seems.

Maybe her advantage is really the fact she's been boxing boys from a very young age, and probably has at least 4/5 years of extra training on most other women, although that's a guess as I have no idea what age girls generally pick up the sport.

I just don't get where this is coming from. No other woman has cried about her, and even the Italian woman has come back out and apologised. Embarrassment can force people to act in really weird ways, and that shouldn't be pandered to imo.

I would argue that Khelif is fighting in the wrong weight.

To use your example of Deontay Wilder, would you want him fighting a Welterweight? Because I wouldn't.

[The Slim Reaper]

I would argue that Khelif is fighting in the wrong weight.

To use your example of Deontay Wilder, would you want him fighting a Welterweight? Because I wouldn't.

I can't be sure how the Olympics do their weight categories, but I'm 99.9% certain that weigh-ins would still be required. You don't get to rock up and just fight who you want. It's nonsensical and unbelievable.

Here is a pic of her after winning the following bout after the controversial one, against a Hungarian opponent.

They're the same size.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/content/dam/olympics/2024/08/03/TELEMMGLPICT000388348081_17227013855460.jpeg?imwid th=960

https://www.irishtimes.com/resizer/v2/Y7QXIQHKVIRBLSIQ7OPQP3AIRE.jpg?auth=233932227be020 20250e7f28fc489ec1dd96ea6474ecdcb74de4027278f12dd1&smart=true&width=1024&height=754

[The Slim Reaper]

I absolutely hate posting this, as I despise this paper with every fibre of my being, but if your bigotry is even too much for the sun...

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GUS64MKXcAABdhf?format=jpg&name=small

[Mystic Mock]

I can't be sure how the Olympics do their weight categories, but I'm 99.9% certain that weigh-ins would still be required. You don't get to rock up and just fight who you want. It's nonsensical and unbelievable.

Here is a pic of her after winning the following bout after the controversial one, against a Hungarian opponent.

They're the same size.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/content/dam/olympics/2024/08/03/TELEMMGLPICT000388348081_17227013855460.jpeg?imwid th=960

https://www.irishtimes.com/resizer/v2/Y7QXIQHKVIRBLSIQ7OPQP3AIRE.jpg?auth=233932227be020 20250e7f28fc489ec1dd96ea6474ecdcb74de4027278f12dd1&smart=true&width=1024&height=754

If Khelif has the advantages that the IBA are claiming (which I know that we can't 100% trust the IBA) then Khelif would need to be moved up a weight imo, because most of the other women in the same weight class as Khelif will be disadvantaged.

However, if it turns out that the IBA have been lying about some of her test results (which I wouldn't put it past them) then I do feel really bad for Khelif.

[Mystic Mock]

I absolutely hate posting this, as I despise this paper with every fibre of my being, but if your bigotry is even too much for the sun...

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GUS64MKXcAABdhf?format=jpg&name=small

JK Rowling called Khelif "Trans?"

That is out of order.

[Nicky91]

i've seen her live now, watched last nights semi final match vs the thai lady


she is very much 100% a woman, honestly i would know if someone is trans or not, considering i like quite some trans people



but no, Imane is 100% a woman, she gives me Lucia Rijker vibes, like a lot


another dominant performance from her, i agree with the commentators, she is a definite contender for the gold

[Livia]

JK Rowling called Khelif "Trans?"

That is out of order.

She called her male. Which she is, biologically.

[Livia]

It always amuses me that on threatening trans women or biological men in women's sport, the loudest, and most prolific, the most outraged posters in support of them are men.

[Nicky91]

https://nypost.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2024/08/2024-imane-khelif-algeria-reacts-87168104.jpg?w=1024

:lovedup:


we both have in common, that we are both being discriminated against by the western elites

[Nicky91]

everyone who thinks of her as trans, is cancelled for me personally

:idc:


Don't Believe Evil Russian Pig Umar Kremlev's Lies, pretty sure Kremlev has ties to Putin, all of those russian leaders have tbf, and the IBA basically ignore that and he gets to stay on as president, corruption within IBA that more needs highlighting honestly

[Cherie]

I absolutely hate posting this, as I despise this paper with every fibre of my being, but if your bigotry is even too much for the sun...

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GUS64MKXcAABdhf?format=jpg&name=small

My goodness you are so desperate to be right you will quote the Sun ...some Liverpool Supporter you are, interesting how they landed on JK when there are ex male boxers saying it is not right ...mysogny at its finest


get back the privet drive...what does that even mean, is it like a get back into the kitchen kind of thing?

[Cherie]

https://nypost.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2024/08/2024-imane-khelif-algeria-reacts-87168104.jpg?w=1024

:lovedup:


we both have in common, that we are both being discriminated against by the western elites


oh Nicky :joker: never change

[Livia]

My goodness you are so desperate to be right you will quote the Sun ...some Liverpool Supporter you are, interesting how they landed on JK when there are ex male boxers saying it is not right ...mysogny at its finest


get back the privet drive...what does that even mean, is it like a get back into the kitchen kind of thing?

Pricey Drive is where the tearful Dursleys lived. Come on Cherie, are you not up on your Harry Potter?

[Livia]

https://nypost.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2024/08/2024-imane-khelif-algeria-reacts-87168104.jpg?w=1024

:lovedup:


we both have in common, that we are both being discriminated against by the western elites


oh Nicky :joker: never change

It's his ideal wife, apparently. A match made in heaven...

[Cherie]

Pricey Drive is where the tearful Dursleys lived. Come on Cherie, are you not up on your Harry Potter?

ah....no never a HP fan.....okay so its mind your own business .....how nice of them to be able to opnine but no one else can

[The Slim Reaper]

My goodness you are so desperate to be right you will quote the Sun ...some Liverpool Supporter you are, interesting how they landed on JK when there are ex male boxers saying it is not right ...mysogny at its finest


get back the privet drive...what does that even mean, is it like a get back into the kitchen kind of thing?

It was written by the associate editor, who is also a female.

It's not about me being right, Cherie, because I already believe I am right (as you believe you are right, or anyone else believes they are right. No one goes through life believing they are wrong about everything. No one.). By posting this, I'm trying to highlight exactly how far gone and dangerous this far right affiliated movement has shifted. JK is not the concerned citizen you believe. She's a dangerous radical. Look at how aggrieved you feel, just because Joanne has being called out, with accusations about me, and about misogyny...

I've spoken about that rag numerous times on here and about what they did, and that's why i acknowledged it myself, so that attack falls flat, I'm afraid. An extremist paper calling out another extremist is the only way to show it. If I'd posted a guardian journo, or a morning star journo, it doesn't have anywhere near the same impact.

You're the 3rd person to try the "you just want to be right" line on me, so you're not even original. SB (in the TS days) was first, niamh was second, and now you're backwash at this stage.

[Livia]

ah....no never a HP fan.....okay so its mind your own business .....how nice of them to be able to opnine but no one else can

Privet Drive that should have said, dammit...

[Cherie]

It was written by the associate editor, who is also a female.

It's not about me being right, Cherie, because I already believe I am right (as you believe you are right, or anyone else believes they are right. No one goes through life believing they are wrong about everything. No one.). By posting this, I'm trying to highlight exactly how far gone and dangerous this far right affiliated movement has shifted. JK is not the concerned citizen you believe. She's a dangerous radical. Look at how aggrieved you feel, just because Joanne has being called out, with accusations about me, and about misogyny...

I've spoken about that rag numerous times on here and about what they did, and that's why i acknowledged it myself, so that attack falls flat, I'm afraid. An extremist paper calling out another extremist is the only way to show it. If I'd posted a guardian journo, or a morning star journo, it doesn't have anywhere near the same impact.

You're the 3rd person to try the "you just want to be right" line on me, so you're not even original. SB (in the TS days) was first, niamh was second, and now you're backwash at this stage.

well fortunately for me Slim, I didn't see those posts or when they were posted but it must be going back some as TS has not been TS or a long time, so in my mind I am first, nice to see I am not on my own though, with regard to the associate Editor females can hate other females as well you know, as for you acknowledging it yourself, that doesn't take away from the fact that you posted it, and now you cant take it back I am afraid ....oh I would never normally quote x but here it is anyway because I desperately need to make a point ..for shame :nono:

[The Slim Reaper]

well fortunately for me Slim, I didn't see those posts or when they were posted but it must be going back some as TS has not been TS or a long time, so in my mind I am first, nice to see I am not on my own though, with regard to the associate Editor females can hate other females as well you know, as for you acknowledging it yourself, that doesn't take away from the fact that you posted it, and now you cant take it back I am afraid ....oh I would never normally quote x but here it is anyway because I desperately need to make a point ..for shame :nono:

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRxQqfadkWhVbtjzm_ZBBGAZWLYlbnzU R1uNTGPuFjXIIgCMRFbTP8HcFAKd7wIZ1q9Pv4&usqp=CAU

[Glenn.]

She called her male. Which she is, biologically.

Nope. Wrong again

[Quantum Boy]

TS has not been TS or a long time

TS lives on Cherie. In my heart.

[The Slim Reaper]

In all our hearts.

[Ammi]

…at one with the universe…

https://static.boredpanda.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/yoga-joes-peaceful-green-army-figures-dan-abramson-4.jpg

[Cherie]

Toy Soldier Never Forgotten

[Quantum Boy]

Toy Soldier Never Forgotten

OLTZbJMQiD4

[Mystic Mock]

https://nypost.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2024/08/2024-imane-khelif-algeria-reacts-87168104.jpg?w=1024

:lovedup:


we both have in common, that we are both being discriminated against by the western elites

How are you being discriminated against by the western elites?:laugh:

[Nicky91]

super friday for me tomorrow


my team NAC Breda kick off the eredivisie season in Groningen, and after that, i can tune in to root for Imane for the gold medal match

:cool:

[Cherie]

Alesser-known fact about Daley Thompson is that he is not merely Britain’s finest ever Olympian, but a crucial figure in agitating against the injustice of biological males competing in women’s sport. Long before these Paris Games were scandalised by sex tests revealing two boxers as having XY chromosomes, the male pattern, he was warning of the gathering storm. Quite apart from featuring in a campaign film last year called The Inclusion Delusion, he wrote in a report by think tank Policy Exchange: “We risk alienating a generation of female athletes if we cannot promise them fair and safe play – from the grassroots to the top.”

t 66, Thompson could be forgiven for ducking the toxic blowback this debate unleashes. And yet he feels strongly enough to rebuke the International Olympic Committee for neglecting to protect the female category, prioritising inclusion over fairness. As an illustration, he points to the 33-page “Portrayal Guidelines” document that the IOC have issued to journalists in Paris, advising against the use of such terms as “born male” or “biologically male” on the grounds that such labels are “dehumanising” and constitute “problematic language”.

“You only have to read the statement,” he says. “I don’t understand why they, as the world governing body, don’t take a stance. Instead, they tell everybody else to take a stance and then they chip away at the sides. I don’t understand that.”

I point out how Martina Navratilova, the nine-time Wimbledon champion and a steadfast figure in upholding the integrity of female sport, has accused the IOC of Orwellian tactics by waging a “1984 version of war on women”. “Martina knows this inside out,” Thompson nods. “I would agree with that. I would have thought that the defence of women’s sport should be very high on the IOC’s list.”

Sadly, it is anything but. In their insistence that womanhood can be determined by passport status alone, the IOC have created the astonishing situation where two biologically male boxers, Algeria’s Imane Khelif and Lin Yu-ting of Taiwan, are now guaranteed Olympic medals in the women’s competition. They were disqualified from last year’s world boxing championship by the International Boxing Association, who said the DNA of each fighter “was that of a male consisting of XY chromosomes”. Neither appealed against the findings.

I meet Thompson at the Royal Garden Hotel in Kensington, before the eruption of the boxing scandal. But he leaves no doubt as to his views on the IOC’s spinelessness, presenting their failure to ensure a level playing field for women as an extension of their feeble stance on state-sponsored doping. “The IOC, in their different forms over the last 40 or 50 years, have been negligent in their duty towards the one thing they should be looking after, and that’s sport,” he argues. “They allowed the Eastern bloc countries to get away with it in the Seventies and Eighties. They could have done things about China. They could have done more. They should have done more.”

Having seen the convulsions triggered by the IOC’s gospel of inclusion at all costs, Thompson suggests his great friend Sebastian Coe as the ideal candidate to lead the Olympic movement once Thomas Bach steps down next year. Unlike Bach, Coe has shown decisive leadership on the most vexed of questions. In the women’s 800 metre final at the Rio Olympics in 2016, Caster Semenya took gold in a race where all three medallists had differences in sexual development. In response, Coe introduced a policy where any such athletes would have to reduce their testosterone levels to race as women.

“He would make a good president of the IOC, because I truly believe he has the athletes’ interests at heart,” Thompson says. “He does the things he thinks will be beneficial to them. Plus, he has had issues that nobody else has had to deal with. And he seems to have found a good way through them.”

Thompson has been drawn into his febrile sphere through his enduring bond with Sharron Davies. They dated briefly in the late Seventies and have remained friends ever since, with Davies persuading him to champion the cause closest to her heart. While Thompson took Olympic decathlon gold in Moscow in 1980, Davies had to settle for silver in swimming’s 400m individual medley – beaten by Petra Schneider of the former East Germany, who later admitted to having doped. For her, the spectacle of women being wrongly denied medals cuts deep. Fortunately, her ex-boyfriend has not taken much persuading to lend his support

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/entertainment/music/daley-thompson-interview-time-for-ioc-to-stand-up-and-defend-women-s-sport/ar-AA1or7NH?ocid=msedgntp&pc=LCTS&cvid=59cb5a1660ee400f99fd90a64d03f99f&ei=15

[The Slim Reaper]

No matter where you stand on this issue, I think everyone will appreciate this.

1821299281690816720

[Cherie]

No matter where you stand on this issue, I think everyone will appreciate this.

1821299281690816720

Brilliant

[Niamh.]

Soprano's :love:

[Ammi]

No matter where you stand on this issue, I think everyone will appreciate this.

1821299281690816720

…:laugh:…I liked the impersonation…(…even though The Sopranos isn’t a series I’ve seen so I don’t know how accurate to the characters…)…it’s still easy to get the vein of it, though…

…just being more serious, though…in general…(..because online there has also for real sometimes been that vein of criticism of Angelina in support of Imane…and I hate that ‘team one’ or ‘team another’, type thing, I’m sure that Italy are as proud of Angelina as Algeria are of Imane…

[The Slim Reaper]

…:laugh:…I liked the impersonation…(…even though The Sopranos isn’t a series I’ve seen so I don’t know how accurate to the characters…)…it’s still easy to get the vein of it, though…

…just being more serious, though…in general…(..because online there has also for real sometimes been that vein of criticism of Angelina in support of Imane…and I hate that ‘team one’ or ‘team another’, type thing, I’m sure that Italy are as proud of Angelina as Algeria are of Imane…

It's a great show, you should definitely watch it.

The whole situation is unfortunate, but the way Angelina created this story was appalling petulance. She embarrassed herself, and threw that embarrassment on to her opponent. It's right that she has been criticised, but that's all she received - a bit of criticism. Imane had her life turned upside down. Now that Angelina has apologised, that should be the end of the whole sorry situation and all parties can move on.

[Zizu]

It's a great show, you should definitely watch it.

The whole situation is unfortunate, but the way Angelina created this story was appalling petulance. She embarrassed herself, and threw that embarrassment on to her opponent. It's right that she has been criticised, but that's all she received - a bit of criticism. Imane had her life turned upside down. Now that Angelina has apologised, that should be the end of the whole sorry situation and all parties can move on.


Agreed

The Sopranos is in many people’s top ten Tv series of all time


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[Alf]

Motorcyclist who identifies as a Bicyclist sets new cycling World record.

[Zizu]

Motorcyclist who identifies as a Bicyclist sets new cycling World record.


https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20240808/2320ea09a4995e1eff5ff0a525dec26e.jpg


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[Maru]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20240808/2320ea09a4995e1eff5ff0a525dec26e.jpg


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Beautiful and Brave. Everyone likes trains.

[Jordan.]

1822018242099212295

Delighted for her

[Glenn.]

She earned it

[Zizu]

1822018242099212295

Delighted for her


Bollox


A supposedly mediocre, limited boxer completely dominated last year’s WORLD CHAMPION to win Algeria’s first ever Olympic medal



Thats the equivalent of Jake Paul beating Dmitry Bivol


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[Liam-]

The best woman clearly won

[Zizu]

The best woman clearly won


May the best man win ..

( if only she was called May)

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[Zizu]

I don’t understand how she always looks taller , broader and more muscular if they are all in the same weight class - unless she’s a weight bully

Nothing says female to me at all certainly not her stance nor gait or face https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20240809/e78777963157a0e5a461a09248ac6f2b.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20240809/ce6a14dd989c839aa3b4102663761e01.jpg

Weight bullies explanations below

The fact that a fighter can rehydrate and gain a large weight advantage prior to the fight is an intrinsic pitfall in the "day before" weigh-in system. As long as the loophole exists, guys will take advantage of it. The only way to avoid it is mandatory "day of fight" weigh-ins with an allotted amount of weight a fighter is allowed to put back on, or we go back to same day weigh-ins, which posed enough of a dehydration risk that they were done away with in the first place. "Day before" weigh-ins are perceived to be the lesser of two evils really.

"Weight bullies" are really just guys who are taking advantage of the weigh-in system's deficiency. They are, however, participating in a sport where every possible advantage is extremely valuable, as long as it can be legally obtained. While we as fans want to see these guys compete on an even playing field, in boxing that is definitely not always the case, or even a viable option.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[UserSince2005]

Must be so proud to punch so many women in the face. The gold should be given to the poor Italian princess who got smashed up.

[Cherie]

Meh, mostly men who normally don't support women, celebrating this achievement....no thanks

[Quantum Boy]

I don’t understand how she always looks taller , broader and more muscular if they are all in the same weight class - unless she’s a weight bully


Skinny legs (by under-training) + lower body fat percentage achievable with higher testosterone. Females generally can't retain muscle without retaining body fat, men can.

[edit] Not that I'm calling her a man :umm2: but it is a result of the high T and apparent male puberty.

[Livia]

Watch the women's sports and records fall to biological men. This is just the start.

[Niamh.]

Skinny legs (by under-training) + lower body fat percentage achievable with higher testosterone. Females generally can't retain muscle without retaining body fat, men can.

[edit] Not that I'm calling her a man :umm2: but it is a result of the high T and apparent male puberty.Which should disqualify them from the female category

[UserSince2005]

How can you proudly claim gold.

I mean it would be like me going up against a bunch of paraplegics in the 100 metres and then celebrating my win.

[Zizu]

Watch the women's sports and records fall to biological men. This is just the start.


Then there would be no point in women’s sport at all


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[UserSince2005]

Changed the title because I’m not sure if she did actually get a broken nose. That what she was claiming to her coach in the heat of the moment .

[Zizu]

Changed the title because I’m not sure if she did actually get a broken nose. That what she was claiming to her coach in the heat of the moment .


I know she said she’d never been hit that hard in her life and feared for her safety ( she actually trains against guys sometimes- to put her opponent’s power into perspective


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[Zizu]

This young lady looked fairly suspicious .. ran lile a prop forward .. I thought it was OJ Simpson for a moment

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20240810/3861229ba5d90d77847567f7109a6745.jpg


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[Mystic Mock]

She earned it

That's definitely up for debate imo.:laugh:

[Mystic Mock]

May the best man win ..

( if only she was called May)

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Tbf she's not a man.

But she definitely needs to be sent up to Middleweight, to make her matches more even.

[Mystic Mock]

This young lady looked fairly suspicious .. ran lile a prop forward .. I thought it was OJ Simpson for a moment

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20240810/3861229ba5d90d77847567f7109a6745.jpg


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Tbf some women do look butch.

I saw a female Chinese Shot Put player (or Discus, I mix the two up lol) that looked more butch than the woman in this picture, and she was still a legit woman in every Biological sense from the way that the commentators were speaking about her.

Not every woman will look like Margot Robbie.:laugh:

[Jordan.]

1822071624956272841

Exactly :flutter:

[Zizu]

1822071624956272841

Exactly :flutter:


Bollox


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[Beso]

https://www.facebook.com/share/r/Ru9mj1Dx9APyVWCK/

[Cherie]

https://www.facebook.com/share/r/Ru9mj1Dx9APyVWCK/

mmm

[Black Dagger]

Thrilled for her. That gold looks so good on her.

[Livia]

Tbf she's not a man.

But she definitely needs to be sent up to Middleweight, to make her matches more even.

She has the Y chromosome. Biological women don't. I don't care how she lives her life, I have no Ill will against her, but she doesn't belong in womens boxing.

Let's hope at the next Olympics in LA they get a handle on this or we'll have biological men in every women's sport scooping up gold medals and some men cheering them on.

Still no word about people with xx chromosomes trying to get into men's sports. Why is that...?

[Cherie]

I'm more delighted for Katarina Johnson Thompson, a true example of a woman perserving in sport, 4th Olympics, and missing out on Gold by a whisker



Well done Katarina

[Nicky91]

1822071624956272841

Exactly :flutter:

:clap1: :clap1: :clap1:

you tell em, queen



am so ******* happy she won gold :worship: karma for her cyberbully haters! :clap1: :clap1:

:cheer:

[Livia]

:clap1: :clap1: :clap1:

you tell em, queen



am so ******* happy she won gold :worship: karma for her cyberbully haters! :clap1: :clap1:

:cheer:

Oh calm down.

[Livia]

I'm more delighted for Katarina Johnson Thompson, a true example of a woman perserving in sport, 4th Olympics, and missing out on Gold by a whisker



Well done Katarina

Me too. What an example she is.

[Quantum Boy]

The reaction to the win makes it 10x more likely there'll be a regulatory crackdown IMO. Not really making any comment there on what the reaction should or shouldn't be... it's just my guess at what will happen vs what would have happened with a more humble victory. If the choice is to make a statement and go down swinging, as it were, that's a valid enough choice.

The last thing they want to do (if they actually want to continue fighting, and care about the sport) is create an atmosphere where others will no longer want to compete. In any situation that's game over.

[Zizu]

She has the Y chromosome. Biological women don't. I don't care how she lives her life, I have no I'll will against her, but she doesn't belong in womens boxing.

Let's hope at the next Olympics in LA they get a handle on this or we'll have biological men in every women's sport scooping up gold medals and some men cheering them on.

Still no word about people with xx chromosomes trying to get into men's sports. Why is that...?


Very perceptive !


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[Zizu]

The reaction to the win makes it 10x more likely there'll be a regulatory crackdown IMO. Not really making any comment there on what the reaction should or shouldn't be... it's just my guess at what will happen vs what would have happened with a more humble victory. If the choice is to make a statement and go down swinging, as it were, that's a valid enough choice.

The last thing they want to do (if they actually want to continue fighting, and care about the sport) is create an atmosphere where others will no longer want to compete. In any situation that's game over.


She beat the reigning world champion by 5 to nil .. wasn’t even a contest

So she won the final , semi final and quarter final all by 5:0 !!!

Its total Bollox

The real women haven’t got a chance and probably won’t bother entering id they allow fighters like this to compete .


Why would they ,,, No chance of winning but every chance of getting hurt and embarrassed
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20240810/243a573edfa6a8f998e6ffe88e5430c5.jpg


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[Liam-]

She’s made a start on filing lawsuits against people for defamation and online harassment :love:

[Mystic Mock]

She has the Y chromosome. Biological women don't. I don't care how she lives her life, I have no Ill will against her, but she doesn't belong in womens boxing.

Let's hope at the next Olympics in LA they get a handle on this or we'll have biological men in every women's sport scooping up gold medals and some men cheering them on.

Still no word about people with xx chromosomes trying to get into men's sports. Why is that...?

Khelif's situation is more complicated than the Trans issue due to her being Intersex, she might ironically get disadvantaged if you put her in the men's Boxing.

The best compromise would be to move her up a weight.

[Alf]

Zuckerberg censors Dawkins

If you really stand on Dawkins side on this argument, then you would delete your Facebook account immediately. If you don't then you support this Gold medal in my opinion.


1822166372819853352

[Alf]

Says "tweet not found" obviously some more censoring going on.

Just go on Richard Dawkins twitter page, the tweet is there.

[Beso]

She could have a 12 inch swinging dick and still be able to box solely on the fact her corrupt government diagnosed her as female at birth.


The door has been left wide ajar...for habitual olympic loser countries with jealous rulers.

[Livia]

Khelif's situation is more complicated than the Trans issue due to her being Intersex, she might ironically get disadvantaged if you put her in the men's Boxing.

The best compromise would be to move her up a weight.

Oh, God forfend she should be disadvantaged in the men's group. But it's fine for women to be disadvantaged.

The best compromise is to make a separate group with trans people and intersex people. Women's safety should not be compromised. If it was a sport where their biological sex did not give them an advantage I would not have a problem. I wished well in her life but I will never accept her fighting biological women.

[UserSince2005]

The Taipei one also won the category they were in.

[Livia]

She’s made a start on filing lawsuits against people for defamation and online harassment :love:

Yeah, no one speak the truth for fear of a lawsuit.

[Livia]

The Taipei one also won the category they were in.

Yes, I was not surprised.

[Zizu]

TalkSport has a doctor discussing this topic and the very real issues and concerns as we speak



She said that these ‘women’ with naturally higher testosterone levels will have wider shoulders, narrower waists , denser bone tissue, be naturally stronger ( much bigger biceps) etc etc

All equating to 2.5 ( two and a half) times more powerful punches or a weight advantage on the level of a heavyweight fighting a lightweight !!


The implications are huge for the unfortunate young women taking the punches whereas the stronger ‘women’ have much better punch resistance another huge advantage

Longer arms are an obvious advantage ( Crawford for example has extraordinarily long arms)


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[Mystic Mock]

Oh, God forfend she should be disadvantaged in the men's group. But it's fine for women to be disadvantaged.

The best compromise is to make a separate group with trans people and intersex people. Women's safety should not be compromised. If it was a sport where their biological sex did not give them an advantage I would not have a problem. I wished well in her life but I will never accept her fighting biological women.

My point being that we shouldn't have any athlete being disadvantaged.

I do agree with you that having a Trans & Intersex division would be good if they have enough competitors in those groups.

[Beso]

TalkSport has a doctor discussing this topic and the very real issues and concerns as we speak



She said that these ‘women’ with naturally higher testosterone levels will have wider shoulders, narrower waists , denser bone tissue, be naturally stronger ( much bigger biceps) etc etc

All equating to 2.5 ( two and a half) times more powerful punches or a weight advantage on the level of a heavyweight fighting a lightweight !!


The implications are huge for the unfortunate young women taking the punches whereas the stronger ‘women’ have much better punch resistance another huge advantage

Longer arms are an obvious advantage ( Crawford for example has extraordinarily long arms)


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Do you have a picture of the woman doctor so we can all judge a still image and decide what sex she really is to us all judging from the sides?

[Zizu]

Do you have a picture of the woman doctor so we can all judge a still image and decide what sex she really is to us all judging from the sides?


What ?

Not sure what you are asking/saying

Either way the answer is no . .. it was a discussion on radio as I said


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[Beso]

What ?

Not sure what you are asking/saying

Either way the answer is no . .. it was a discussion on radio as I said


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You got a name?

[Quantum Boy]

She’s made a start on filing lawsuits against people for defamation and online harassment :love:

That should be interesting if any go ahead as they will be a burden of proof involved (she will have to prove medically that she is female, not just legally, or it isn't defamation).

Its also not harassment unless people were messaging her directly.

[Zizu]

You got a name?


No sorry .. I was trying to remember the salient points of the discussion


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[Beso]

No sorry .. I was trying to remember the salient points of the discussion


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I just wanted to know if I could judge if she was a man or a woman without her/his face straining through sporting effort.


Might be a woman pretending to be as knowledgable as a man as far as you know.

[Niamh.]

That should be interesting if any go ahead as they will be a burden of proof involved (she will have to prove medically that she is female, not just legally, or it isn't defamation).



Its also not harassment unless people were messaging her directly.I would have thought that IBA would be the only ones Imane could sue as they were the ones who told everyone about the failed tests and the Y chromosome etc. I hope it happens though as at least the question would be resolved one way or the other before the next Olympics

[arista]

She/He

Goes home with a Gold Medal
That's what her nation wanted.

But she is upset
by all the verbal attacks.

[Zizu]

She/He

Goes home with a Gold Medal
That's what her nation wanted.

But she is upset
by all the verbal attacks.


Well her opponents are all upset by her physical attacks


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[arista]

Well her opponents are all upset by her physical attacks





Sure Tough Fights

[arista]

This is crazy :

[Richard Dawkins announced on August 10
that his Facebook account has been deleted,
allegedly in response to his remarks on
Algerian boxer Imane Khelif.]

1 day ago


I found out on Free Speech Nation
when a Live audience member,
asked was this right?
GBnewsHD

[Nicky91]

This is crazy :

Richard Dawkins announced on August 10
that his Facebook account has been deleted,
allegedly in response to his remarks on
Algerian boxer Imane Khelif.]

1 day ago


I found out on Free Speech Nation
when a Live audience member,
asked was this right?
GBnewsHD


free speech, yes


but cyberbullying and spreading misinformation, no



last time i am gonna mention it

Imane Khelif born a girl, grew up a girl, always been a girl!, as for the y chromosome bull**** story, well very hard to believe the IBA if you can't get your own eyes on actual files something those Kremlev and his minions aren't showing us

[Livia]

Dawkins, probably the most famous biologist in the world, gets his account closed for speaking the truth. Free speech is dead.

[Nicky91]

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/boxer-imane-khelif-france-cyberbullying-probe/


France has launched a cyberbullying investigation following a complaint by Algerian Olympic boxing champion Imane Khelif, prosecutors told CBS News on Wednesday, after the athlete endured backlash over misconceptions about her gender.

Khelif's lawyer, Nabil Boudi, announced on social media last week that the boxing champion had filed a complaint for online harassment, calling it "a new fight: that of justice, dignity and honor."

"The criminal investigation will determine who initiated this misogynistic, racist and sexist campaign, but will also have to focus on those who fueled this digital lynching," Boudi said on social media. "The unfair harassment suffered by the boxing champion will remain the biggest stain on these Olympic Games."

Khelif won the women's 66-kilogram boxing final against China's Yang Liu at the 2024 Paris Olympic Games.

She and Taiwan's Lin Yu-ting were disqualified from last year's boxing world championship after allegedly failing gender eligibility testing, the AFP news agency reported. The Russian president of the IBA, Umar Kremlev, targeted both athletes, claiming they had undergone "genetic testing that shows that these are men," AFP reported.

Paris' public prosecutor's office told CBS News that it had received Khelif's complaint on Monday, which was referred to the city's office for combating crimes against humanity and hate crimes for an "investigation into the counts of cyberbullying due to gender, public insult due to gender, public provocation to discrimination and public insult due to origin."

"I send a message to all the people of the world to uphold the Olympic principles and the Olympic Charter, to refrain from bullying all athletes, because this has effects, massive effects," Khelif said during an interview in Arabic earlier this month. "It can destroy people. It can kill people's thoughts, spirit and mind. It can divide people. And because of that, I ask them to refrain from bullying."

.

[Nicky91]

people who commit cybercrime, also require professional help as they are sick in the head

mental asylums are better suited to them and other creeps online

[Beso]

France has launched a cyberbullying investigation following a complaint by Algerian Olympic boxing champion Imane Khelif


I've seen it all now...

[Beso]

Really really bad when you have a nation bending over backwards for these freaks of nature.

[Oliver_W]

This person's name even starts with I Man, bit of a giveaway.

[Nicky91]

Really really bad when you have a nation bending over backwards for these freaks of nature.

This person's name even starts with I Man, bit of a giveaway.

sexism and racism, the stench :bored:


Imane is a very common name in Algeria and the Middle East :idc:

[Beso]

sexism and racism, the stench :bored:


Imane is a very common name in Algeria and the Middle East :idc:

Oh grow up.

[Mystic Mock]

She's suing people for not liking her involvement in a Sport?

Khelif and the Chinese woman that won a Gold medal in her weight division had a Biological advantage, that has been established due to them being Intersex.

The fact that both of them got gold medals proves that they both had an unfair advantage within the Sport.

But tbh even if they both didn't get Gold, they both still need to be moved from their current level of Boxing.

[Nicky91]

She's suing people for not liking her involvement in a Sport?

Khelif and the Chinese woman that won a Gold medal in her weight division had a Biological advantage, that has been established due to them being Intersex.

The fact that both of them got gold medals proves that they both had an unfair advantage within the Sport.

But tbh even if they both didn't get Gold, they both still need to be moved from their current level of Boxing.

she is born a female, learn to understand it for once


she's suing people who cyberbullied her more like, who disputed her gender, those bunch of ''know it-all'' hater types

[Mystic Mock]

she is born a female, learn to understand it for once


she's suing people who cyberbullied her more like, who disputed her gender, those bunch of ''know it-all'' hater types

They're women, but they're also Biologically Intersex.

[Nicky91]

They're women, but they're also Biologically Intersex.

who says that, that lying vile evil russian pig Kremlev