Madeleine McCann [Police 'looking at eight important new leads']

[Bigbrotherin]

Aparantly alot of portugeise press are blaming her parents for her disapperance. Because they left her alone in a ground floor apartment that wasn't locked, because of their lack of interest in the case and because they've had open patio doors. So.. are they right? wrong? or a bit of both?

Personally I don't know, I'd like to think it wasn't them. But.. who knows?

[Billy]

Apparently the police were blaming them aswell, they found blood on the wall that had been scraped off

[Bigbrotherin]

Originally posted by OfficialSuperstar
Apparently the police were blaming them aswell, they found blood on the wall that had been scraped off
Do you agree though?

[spitfire]

Originally posted by Bigbrotherin
Originally posted by OfficialSuperstar
Apparently the police were blaming them aswell, they found blood on the wall that had been scraped off
Do you agree though?
TBH i kind of suspected that all along.I really,really hope im wrong.
Im hoping that they are terrible parents and she gets found safe and sound.

[Wasted]

If the parents were more sensible and didn't take it for granted that their children were perfectly safe, then Madeline never would have disappeared. So the parents are to blame because they left their children alone, and unsupervised. I'm not being mean, but that was a seriously idiotic thing to do. Anything could've happened, and it did.

I just hope that now, Madeline will be found safe and sound, because that's the important thing.

[sarahtheangel]

as a parent my self i would not have left my babies alone let alone a 3 year old going on 4 , what if one of the babies had choked or suddenly had a fit through a high tempreture ie: febrile convultion , they should not have left them alone . as they were offered a baby sitting service when they booked the hols . they will have to live with that quit now untill maddie is found . i just pray that she will be found safe and well . unfortuntaly we are living in a very sick society , and untll the goverments get tougher on pedophiles . ie castrate them or put them on an island away from society we will here about more and more children being abused . bt i do not belive people should be sending them hate mail if there inocent then imagine how they must feel , i just hope they are only they will no.

[Loukas]

well what they did was wrong leaving there kid but i see where there coming from...

the hotel they were staying was a good hotel and very respectful hotel

but was still wrong i dont think you shoulde't blame the parents they know they did wrong and there being punished enouf with maddie gone

but the main thing is that they find her safe and healthy.

[~Kizwiz~]

Ok, I think blaming them is not an opinion at this stage. The tourture that both parents are feeling is more that we could ever know and pointing the blame just makes its worse.

They have to live with the fact that she was left, even if they had dinner on the patio someone could have still sneeked in the front and took her.

They have lost their daughter and that is a just incomprehendable.

They have to live with that mistake and that is punishment enough

[Ruth]

To be honest, I do think they were careless in leaving the children. I can't imagine that they had anything deliberate to do with Madeleine's disappearance though. But placing blame is not going to help them now, and it's certainly not going to help that little girl - besides which they will no doubt be blaming themselves for the rest of their lives.

I truly hope that she will be found safe and sound, but sadly, I don't see it happening...I hate to say it, but I think she is probably dead.

[spacebandit]

I suspect that there are a lot of people, especially parents, who found the McCanns story "iffy" - but would never say so for fear of being attacked, as those who did raise such suspicions initially were.

Personally I found something "wrong" about them leaving their other children with babysitters, in a foreign country, near to where their sibling was "abducted" while they jetted off to rome and madrid are anywhere a foregin "leader" would be willing to meet them.

but for me the real eye-opener was the alleged sighting of the kid in Belgium - where the police even DNA tested a glass held by the child - came back negative but the police are not sure they tested the right glass -but what struck me was that whilst all the newspapers here in Britain and elsewhere in Europe, inluding Portugal, focussed on that as a real possibility while the results of the test were being waited for - the McCanns didn't exactly rush there did they ?,
rush off to see the police investigation for themselves, in fact they didn't go at all.

the only sighting of any voracity - and despite them jetting off to every other city that would have them just to shake a few hands - they show no interest at all in that sighting.

and I'm sorry but you have to ask - why ??
Would it be too cynical to suggest that - why bother going to Belgium, perhaps Rome and Madrid are much more exciting [they went there, not for a sighting - just to shake some hands] , and if you know already the sighting is false....why bother ?

I'd like to know why a proper crime scene investigation team didn't go over that room from top to bottom and collect and scrape everything that may be needed at the time.

IMO I think that the reason the room was trace checked now was after the Belgium episode, I cannot be the only one who noticed that they showed no interest in that "sighting".

I hope my suspicions turn out to be unfounded - as that is the most sad and disturbing end to a childs life imaginable, at the hands of its own parents.

I'd like to know why the finger of suspicion was pointed elsewhere without any questions- after all if your wife is murdered or goes "missing" the husband is ALWAYS considered as suspect no.1 until there is cast iron certainty of his innocence, and vice versa on the case of a murdered/"missing" husband.

Why when it comes to murdered children, or as in this case, probably murdered, do the police get a politically correct hamstringing if they dare even suggest the parents "may" be responsible ?

The police should have gone in there and collected everything if only to rule out the parents for certain instead of letting speculation fester.

In a survey of murder cases carried out in 1998 16% of murder victims were members of the murderers family and 64% where friends and acquaintances - strangers accounted for the remaining 20%.

Why were family members ruled out so conclusively in this case ?, except to appease the newspapers who did not want to run with that story.

[Sunny_01]

great post spacebandit. I have been one of those that have long felt that something just doesnt feel right about this whole mess surrounding Madeline's dissapearance.

The investigation from beginning to end has focused on someone other than the Mcanns being responsible. Why is that? Now I am not saying they are responsible I just wonder why they were never formally ruled out by means of investigation.

I could not believe that the Mcanns jetted off to meet the pope at the beginning of this nightmare. I could no sooner have left them twins after losing one child already.

As for them and responsibility, well when you look at the ariel views of where they were staying compared to where they were the night Madeline went missing it was certainly further than being in their own back garden as some have suggested. I have NEVER left my children alone on holiday. When they were toddlers they came with us on an evening in their buggies, we only went places we could take them with us.

As for the sighting in Belgium, well nothing would have kept me away from there, I would have had to go even if it meant dragging my backside all over the world, if someone thought they had spotted my missing child I would HAVE to be there. I do question why they felt it ok to leave their 3 young children in a strange country without supervision.

As a mother I do feel for them, I just dont understand them if that makes sense. I will continue to pray for the safe return of Madeline but sadly I just cant see them ever finding her, but this is one of those times I would so love to be wrong.

[xSammyx]

I don't think you can blame the parents at all about how Madeleine dissapeared that evening, although leaving Madieleine and the twins alone that night was a big mistake and the McCann's have to live with that guilt for the rest of their life.

I think it is wrong how after all the pain and guilt the McCann's have been though already, that they are now being possible blamed as the supects of Madeleine's dissapearance.

[~Kizwiz~]

Originally posted by Sunny_01

I could not believe that the Mcanns jetted off to meet the pope at the beginning of this nightmare. I could no sooner have left them twins after losing one child already.


I have to admit that I agree with you, if any of my children had been taken from me, god forbid, but you wouldnt be able to drag the others away from me. I would find comfort being near them and making sure they were safe and keep them close.


As for the sighting in Belgium, well nothing would have kept me away from there, I would have had to go even if it meant dragging my backside all over the world, if someone thought they had spotted my missing child I would HAVE to be there.


Again, I feel the same, just the thought of maybe being closer to my child would make a difference. I wouldnt be able to keep away. I understand that there are sitings everywhere BUT you wouldnt be able to stop me from going

I just hope that she is safe somwhere but sadly, I dont think she will be returned to her parents

[Emilee]

Absolutley!! Since when do you leave a 4 year old child alone with siblings younger than them, even coming to check on them every 30 mins.. anything could have happened!

[Ruth]

Let's face it - the press have given them an easy ride, because they are a respectable, middle class couple, with white collar jobs. If it was a single parent, or unemployed parents, the press would have torn them to shreds.

I never thought that the parents themselves had anything to do with disappearance of Madelaine - and I hope that they didn't, but somehow I doubt we will ever know. I do find it odd that they went jetting off to Rome to meet the Pope - sorry, but whether they are Catholic or not, there's no way I would want to leave my other two children, in their situation.

And would a single parent, or working class parents have received the same treatment? Highly unlikely.

[Sunny_01]

Thats so true Ruth, how vilified would some single parent have been had she been in this tragic position, or some not quite as high on the social scale as the Mcanns.

I think that people forget like spacebandit says so many children are victims at the hands of their own parents, so why shouldnt we discuss the possibility that they could be involved. Is it purely because of their class that they should not be investigated? is it because they look so sad they should not be investigated? do they not look the type? well I remind you all to look at many cases in the UK where parents have been involved in exactly this type of thing.

I am not for one minute saying they are involved I am just questioning why people think it couldnt possibly have been them, I just think a more thorough investigation at the very beginning might well have shed more light onto this case.

I still like I said pray for Madelines safe return home to her family.

[Billy]

I dont think seh is dead, if she was dead they would have found her by now surely

[Sunny_01]

not necessarily, they may never find a body, the longer she is gone the more likely it is she is dead. Most abductors would by now be panicking as it is still so full on in the media surrounding her, but that said abducted children have turned up after years and years so lets all hope and pray she is alive.

[InTheFade]

Originally posted by spacebandit
I suspect that there are a lot of people, especially parents, who found the McCanns story "iffy" - but would never say so for fear of being attacked, as those who did raise such suspicions initially were.

Personally I found something "wrong" about them leaving their other children with babysitters, in a foreign country, near to where their sibling was "abducted" while they jetted off to rome and madrid are anywhere a foregin "leader" would be willing to meet them.

but for me the real eye-opener was the alleged sighting of the kid in Belgium - where the police even DNA tested a glass held by the child - came back negative but the police are not sure they tested the right glass -but what struck me was that whilst all the newspapers here in Britain and elsewhere in Europe, inluding Portugal, focussed on that as a real possibility while the results of the test were being waited for - the McCanns didn't exactly rush there did they ?,
rush off to see the police investigation for themselves, in fact they didn't go at all.

the only sighting of any voracity - and despite them jetting off to every other city that would have them just to shake a few hands - they show no interest at all in that sighting.

and I'm sorry but you have to ask - why ??
Would it be too cynical to suggest that - why bother going to Belgium, perhaps Rome and Madrid are much more exciting [they went there, not for a sighting - just to shake some hands] , and if you know already the sighting is false....why bother ?

I'd like to know why a proper crime scene investigation team didn't go over that room from top to bottom and collect and scrape everything that may be needed at the time.

IMO I think that the reason the room was trace checked now was after the Belgium episode, I cannot be the only one who noticed that they showed no interest in that "sighting".

I hope my suspicions turn out to be unfounded - as that is the most sad and disturbing end to a childs life imaginable, at the hands of its own parents.

I'd like to know why the finger of suspicion was pointed elsewhere without any questions- after all if your wife is murdered or goes "missing" the husband is ALWAYS considered as suspect no.1 until there is cast iron certainty of his innocence, and vice versa on the case of a murdered/"missing" husband.

Why when it comes to murdered children, or as in this case, probably murdered, do the police get a politically correct hamstringing if they dare even suggest the parents "may" be responsible ?

The police should have gone in there and collected everything if only to rule out the parents for certain instead of letting speculation fester.

In a survey of murder cases carried out in 1998 16% of murder victims were members of the murderers family and 64% where friends and acquaintances - strangers accounted for the remaining 20%.

Why were family members ruled out so conclusively in this case ?, except to appease the newspapers who did not want to run with that story.

That's kind of what I thought about the whole thing, I think you just worded it better than I would have. Maybe it's because everyone reacts to shock in different ways but if my child was abducted, god forbid, I'd be so distraught, I'd be on the police force's case 24/7. It seems awful to make this speculation but from what I have seen of them on TV and what-not, something seems weird.

[InTheFade]

Originally posted by Ruth
Let's face it - the press have given them an easy ride, because they are a respectable, middle class couple, with white collar jobs. If it was a single parent, or unemployed parents, the press would have torn them to shreds.

I never thought that the parents themselves had anything to do with disappearance of Madelaine - and I hope that they didn't, but somehow I doubt we will ever know. I do find it odd that they went jetting off to Rome to meet the Pope - sorry, but whether they are Catholic or not, there's no way I would want to leave my other two children, in their situation.

And would a single parent, or working class parents have received the same treatment? Highly unlikely.

Definitely not. If the child of a single parent or working class parents has a simple accident and goes to A&E, health workers will speculate...

[Freddy111]

It's odd to me how the mother has done an interview for Grazia and how the parents have been jetsetting to all the nice parts of Europe to meet and greet people unrelated to the case, and that a whole specially designed site was set up in less than two days with pictures, videos, audio, and pages upon pages of content for the girl.That they have never been suspected and that they have shown little interest in the investigation. It kind of makes me suspicious as to whether this isn't their doing or a scam to make them some extra dosh (the site has raised 900 odd thousand, but what's it going towards? You cannot donate to the police? They are not paying the searchers. How do we know they are not keeping it? How do we know that once they've made a few million that she won't just magically reappear. It's just so odd how the night that they decided to leave their kids alone was in an apartment in portugal that was not locked properly and without taking up the hotel on their offer of free baby-sitting and how her siblings weren't also kidnapped. I'm not saying they did it, but it's looking more and more suspicious and the more I research it the more suspicious I grow.

[sexy_leigh]

the parents should not have left the children by themselves regardless if they were sleeping or not, some one should have been looking after them whether it's a parent or another member of the family i would NEVER leave my child/children ALONE in a foreign country even if i was in the hotel but not in the room, and to make it seem even more stupid is that there were other people on the trip too such as aunties and cousins(don't know who exactly) who could've looked after the children while the parents have a little me time, OR the parents could've used room service so it makes me wonder did they have something to do with this??? as when you look at them you don't see a shed of tear cos i know if that were my child i would be all over the place i would be crying until there's no more tears left for me to cry AND the parents are roaming across countries like noone's business they should be with their other children

[☺♥BB5♥☻&]

yes definitely if they weren't so stingy to not put her in a nursery that was just a couple of yards down the road then she wouldn't have been abducted

[Jackie]

Originally posted by kizwiz
Ok, I think blaming them is not an opinion at this stage. The tourture that both parents are feeling is more that we could ever know and pointing the blame just makes its worse.

They have to live with the fact that she was left, even if they had dinner on the patio someone could have still sneeked in the front and took her.

They have lost their daughter and that is a just incomprehendable.

They have to live with that mistake and that is punishment enough


yes i agree no one knows what it feels like to lose a daughter we losted our daughter in a road accident she was 15 at least the mccanns have hope on their side of turning up alive.

[Sunny_01]

jackie I feel so terrible for you, it must be so hard.

I dont think that your terrible experience can be compared to that of the Mcanns though. Yours was a tragedy that could not have found you guilty in an investigation, they are still in my opinion under suspicion as no-one knows what happened to their little girl.

I think that the money raised is funding the Mcanns stay in Portugal while the search for Madeline continues, so they dont have to return to their jobs while they wait.

All these weeks down the line I would be now looking to return home and try to get some kind of normal routine established for my other 2 children who need to live a normal life also.

I hate the fact that I question their behaviour, it makes me feel judgmental which is not something I generally consider myself to be but I just cant help it. I never think I am a perfect parent but I do consider myself to have common sense and parental instincts and all of them senses and instincts would have stopped me leaving 3 young children alone while I sat and enjoyed a meal away from them. A holiday is a family thing after all.

[Sunny_01]

I thought that some of you might find this interesting reading, at least one reporter is asking the same questions as many of us are.

http://my.telegraph.co.uk/ww/may_2007/madeleine_mccann.htm

[Billy]

oo there on ITV News telling everyone there not involved

[Freddy111]

My mother just mentioned to me, without me mentioning this topic that I started here that she saw Madelines mother on sky news and the reporter called out to her "If your daughter is watching, what message would you like to give her?" and without looking at the camera, without any emotion and without even stopping she said "I love you" and moved on past the other cameras taking pictures, my mum who saw it said "it was like she was at a film premiere" and I'm sorry but that just sounds way too dodgy for my likeing.

[Bigbrotherin]

Originally posted by Freddy111
My mother just mentioned to me, without me mentioning this topic that I started here that she saw Madelines mother on sky news and the reporter called out to her "If your daughter is watching, what message would you like to give her?" and without looking at the camera, without any emotion and without even stopping she said "I love you" and moved on past the other cameras taking pictures, my mum who saw it said "it was like she was at a film premiere" and I'm sorry but that just sounds way too dodgy for my likeing.
That is a bit dodgy :shocked:

[Billy]

I feel bad for thinkinh this but I cant help but think the parents are involved, even today on teh tv they showed no emotion, but I suppose thats how some people deal with things

[Matt]

I normally wouldn't think the parents are involved, but this has dragged on so long that I am beginning to think they are.

It's a shame, I really don't want to think that...

[Callum]

I'm starting to think they have something to do it..

Something's definitly not right there.

[x_mel_x]

I know this sounds horrible, but if a single parent or a couple who live in a council estate had left their child on their own then they would have been blamed straight away and their probably wouldnt be as much publicity surrounding it. I really hope she is found but the longer she isnt found the less likely it looks that she is alive.

[Billy]

I agree Mel. Also, they were SO quick to get the publics money, I mean other children go missing and the mothers and fathers dont want collections and stuff.

[Matt]

Originally posted by OfficialSuperstar
I agree Mel. Also, they were SO quick to get the publics money, I mean other children go missing and the mothers and fathers dont want collections and stuff.

They also don't milk publicity as much as the McCanns.

I mean, I would never wish what happened to them upon any person, but come on...

[Billy]

I knoww

[Dr43%er]

My and the McCann's local rag (Leicester Mercury) have been getting some flack as they have been removing any negative comment towards the McCann's from their message boards. People have been questioning how free the press is when they are censoring public opinion and not allowing valid questions.

[Sunny_01]

I think more and more people are now questioning their actions. People somehow felt it was wrong to say they could be involved at first as they are such a "respectable" family. Now when they are saying things like we will not be bullied into returning to the UK, why? why would they want to stay there any longer. Even if Madeline is alive it is highly unlikely that she is still in Portugal. Get home, get some kind of normal routine going for those 2 kids you still have with you.

[Jackie]

yeah i know they wont come home but getting into a routine at home is what i would do home is where i would feel safe any news and they will be cotacted striaght away.

[Dr43%er]

Leicester has posters everywhere. I don't see the point. She is hardly going to be in her home town. I was asked to put up a poster. I politely refused and was made to feel like a bad man for not wanting her to be found. (well thats how they made me feel) bet what happens when the next child goes missing? Do I take one down and replace it with another, leave both up? And then when the next child goes missing?

[Jackie]

yeah at my daughters school they were giving out yellow ribbon badges, i didnt get one i dont need a badge to show how i feel its to publicised.

[gracie24]

Originally posted by x_mel_x
I know this sounds horrible, but if a single parent or a couple who live in a council estate had left their child on their own then they would have been blamed straight away and their probably wouldnt be as much publicity surrounding it.

I couldn't agree with you more on that point.
It's because of the profession of the parents that things have been taken differently. Which we've seen recently with certain terrorist attacks that people with the professions which seem to be of the highest standard still, as people, can do wrong.

I can't understand how they could have gone out for a meal and left their child alone, with two other children and have been fine with it.
Checking every half an hour isn't good enough. You would check every half an hour even when your child was sleeping and in the room next to you!
There was also a baby sitting option available and they chose not to take it and surely one the family members they were on holiday with could have looked after the children.

To me, they're just getting an extended holiday in Portugal.
There's no need for them to be out there! They've explained that they can't stand the Portuguese media so why are they staying there because they know the media will continue to talk about them over there.

Never have I known so much publicity to be focused on one missing child when it certainly isn't a rare occurance. Many children go missing and are never found but nobody hears about it.

In my eyes, the parents definitely are to blame.

Sorry if I offended anyone, I didn't mean to, I'm just expressing my opinion.

[Sunny_01]

Gracie your opinion is a one shared by many others. People are asking why would they leave their children, why are they still in Protugal, why did they jet off to see the Pope but not to Belgium when their child was possibly sighted.

They say the rumours about them are untrue but are doing little to convince people that they are innocent parents who have lost a child.

They need to get home, and get on with life for the rest of the family, staying in Portugal is doing nothing to help Madeline, it is doing nothing to help the other kids either. They could fly anywhere from the UK if Madeline is found or spotted.

[Ruth]

Nothing you said was offensive Gracie. I believe the reason that this case is getting so much publicity is because the parents are white, middle class, and what is generally classed as 'respectable'. Also, Maddie is a very pretty little girl - and as sad as it is to say it, I don't believe this much effort would have been focussed on a child who was not considered so pretty.

And it's so right that the press are giving these people a far easier ride than they would have given a single parent, or a council estate dweller.

[Dr43%er]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missing_white_woman_syndrome

I honestly believe that if Holly and Jessica had not had that photo of them in there Man U top and been average looking the general public at large would not got so emotionally involved. It is the Dianafication of grief.

[GlitterEyes]

This case has gone on for so long now I just hope the parents get some closure and are not left wondering and hoping. The parents could of easily stopped/prevented it from happening by keeping a closer eye on their kids more so in foreign places. Being docters themselves I do feel they should of known better leaving children alone in the first place.

[x_mel_x]

By leaving them in a hotel room they probably didnt think their children would be abducted but any one of them could have got up and found something sharp or fallen over. I dont think the parents have anything to do with it and I'm not gonna say they should go home because I dont know how i would react to something like this but they have to think about the two 2 year old children they have and their future as well.

[spacebandit]

Originally posted by GlitterEyes
This case has gone on for so long now I just hope the parents get some closure and are not left wondering and hoping.

Sorry if this causes anyone offence, and as awful as it sounds - but I don't believe the parents are wondering and hoping.
In this case I would love to be wrong but do not think I am

What about the other two kids, is it true that they were returned to England and are living with their grandparents ?

and again I return to the Belgium question :

The one sighting serious enough for a DNA test and they didn't fly off to Belgium to get information from the police.
But they fly off to shake famous peoples hands and have their photo's taken.

Something is not right

[Bigbrotherin]

UPDATE - http://www.thisisbigbrother.com/forum/viewthread.php?goto=lastpost&tid=69212
So, if the headlines are right Madeleine has died and the police 'know' the killers. The question still remains, are the parents to blame?

I'm not sure, but either way my thoughts are with them.

[Jackie]

For leaving them alone YES.

[spitfire]

Originally posted by jackie46
For leaving them alone YES.
Thats why i think 100% the parents are to blame.

[Freddy111]

Isn't it wierd how the parents want to come home now that blood has been found in THEIR apartment. But when there was 'evidence' elsewhere they were willing to stay out there? I reckon their getting cold feet. If this is madelines blood and it is from the night she left. Then there are some questions that need answering.

[Ann]

very true words said there :wink:

[Lauren]

Originally posted by spitfire
Originally posted by jackie46
For leaving them alone YES.
Thats why i think 100% the parents are to blame.

Same here.

I'd hate to pin blame on parents for such a horrific thing happening - but lets be honest here - I know 100% that if I had kids, in a foreign country, I would NOT leave them in a hotel room alone with the window wide open whilst I swanned off for a meal completely out of sight. It wasn't just Maddie they left, they even left two younger twins - what the hell was going through their mind when they turned down the babysitting services? The thing is, they lied about how often they checked on the children, just to save their own backs - thus potentially confusing times that may have led the police to more information.

There's questions that need answering and they're just not answering them. There's time lapses that they're not explaining. Something is not right here.

[Sunny_01]

exactly Lauren. The best thing is as doctors they would both at some point have been involved in neglect cases and will have been judgemental about other people leaving their children un-supervised. They had the option to have their children looked after and CHOSE to leave them alone.

They can still be prosecuted under Portugese law for leaving their children and I doubt after the way they have behaved that the police will have totally ruled that possibility out.

Poor, poor children left in such a vulnerable position, it's so sad for them.

[gracie24]

I read in the paper that Gerry (the father) had admitted that he went back to the apartment during their meal and found that Madeline wasn't in her room, and he just assumed that she'd gone to play with the twins and he never actually bothered to make sure she was there.

The mother was also quoted to have said she hasn't done anything wrong. I find it hard to believe that leaving your children alone and unsupervised whilst going out for a meal was the right thing to do!

[Jack]

It was wrong for them to leave their children unsupervised whilst out for a meal. They know that and are probably ridden with guilt. However, they are not to blame (yes they hold some responsibility), but it's the sick person/people who hold the blame, no one else.

[gracie24]

Surely though if they hadn't of left her alone none of this would have happened?

[spitfire]

Originally posted by Jack
It was wrong for them to leave their children unsupervised whilst out for a meal. They know that and are probably ridden with guilt. However, they are not to blame (yes they hold some responsibility), but it's the sick person/people who hold the blame, no one else. Of course they are to blame.If you go out for the day and leave your windows open,then discover youve been broke into,then thats your fault.I know where your comming from/what your getting at but we all no in this day and age the world aint rosey.

[Jack]

Originally posted by gracie24
Surely though if they hadn't of left her alone none of this would have happened?

Yes, obviously. But then if there were no sickos in the world none of this would have happened. They hold responsibilty, yes, but I feel there is a difference between holding responsibility and being blamed. The McCann's were reckless and irresponsible for leaving their children alone but this just gave the abductors an easy oppurtunity. Even the most responsible parents can be victims to this terrible tragedy: all it takes is for their backs to be turned for one second.

[spitfire]

Originally posted by JackYes, obviously. But then if there were no sickos in the world none of this would have happened. So what if it had been a fire?What if one of the poor kids ate and chocked on something?Wheres there mum and dad to help them?If your a parent you dont leave your child alone.They are crap parents and there other children should be removed for there own saftey.:mad:

[gracie24]

I can see where you're coming from. Like you said the parents were reckless and irresponsible and in my personal opinion I class those 'actions' to be ones that can be blameworthy.
From what I've heard and read I just don't really trust or particularly like the parents. There's just something not right about the whole situation.
I can understand your point further when I look at it hypothetically, but when I look at it in this situation my opinion differs slightly.

[gracie24]

Originally posted by spitfire
Originally posted by JackYes, obviously. But then if there were no sickos in the world none of this would have happened. So what if it had been a fire?What if one of the poor kids ate and chocked on something?Wheres there mum and dad to help them?If your a parent you dont leave your child alone.They are c**p parents and there other children should be removed for there own saftey.:mad:

Social services should seriously consider whether the parents are fit to continue looking after the young children.

[spitfire]

Originally posted by gracie24
Originally posted by spitfire
Originally posted by JackYes, obviously. But then if there were no sickos in the world none of this would have happened. So what if it had been a fire?What if one of the poor kids ate and chocked on something?Wheres there mum and dad to help them?If your a parent you dont leave your child alone.They are c**p parents and there other children should be removed for there own saftey.:mad:

Social services should seriously consider whether the parents are fit to continue looking after the young children. They are not that is blatently obvious.Maddie gets kidnapped after they deserted her,then they fly around europe leaving there other children!somthing wrong there,big time.:mad:

[gracie24]

I want to know who's paying for them to stay out there in Portugal!!
I also read in the paper that they were seen relaxing in a bar.....I got so angry!

[Jack]

Originally posted by spitfire
Originally posted by JackYes, obviously. But then if there were no sickos in the world none of this would have happened. So what if it had been a fire?What if one of the poor kids ate and chocked on something?Wheres there mum and dad to help them?If your a parent you dont leave your child alone.They are c**p parents and there other children should be removed for there own saftey.:mad:

I am not at all condoning the parent's actions. I feel they have got off extremely lightly in the media. They definately hold responsibility but "blame" is such a strong word which should only be applied to the sick individuals who abduct children.

50 years ago, a parent could easily have let their child walk to the shops and park unsupervised without fear of them being abducted. I know society has changed and it's down to these sick people. Again, I'm not justifying or condoning the McCann's actions.

[spitfire]

[i]Originally posted by Jack[/i50 years ago, a parent could easily have let their child walk to shops and park unsupervised without fear of them being abducted.
Could they?Tell that to the parents of Brady and Hindleys victims.

[Jack]

Originally posted by spitfire
[i]Originally posted by Jack[/i50 years ago, a parent could easily have let their child walk to shops and park unsupervised without fear of them being abducted.
Could they?Tell that to the parents of Brady and Hindleys victims.

That was an isolated case in the 60s but before that parents were not accused of being irresponsible for letting their child walk to the shops. There just wasn't any risk. My mother used to bike to the other side of the town after school when she was around 10 years old to buy groceries for her mum. Nowadays this would be completely irresponsible but rightly so because society has changed. Paedophilia, which is the route cause of child abduction, has been catalyzed by the internet and media. What used to be isolated and unheard of is now the biggest concern a parent can have.

[spitfire]

Originally posted by Jack What used to be isolated and unheard of is now the biggest concern a parent can have. Which is why her parents are 100% to blame.

[spitfire]

Originally posted by gracie24
I want to know who's paying for them to stay out there in Portugal!! That would be the wee website fund they set up.Which has raised £1ooo's.What else are the £1ooo's being used for?:mad:

[Jack]

Originally posted by spitfire
Originally posted by Jack What used to be isolated and unheard of is now the biggest concern a parent can have. Which is why her parents are 100% to blame.

So the abductors aren't even 1% to blame?

I don't think you understand what I'm trying to say. The parents are responsible, yes, but when it comes to pointing the finger of blame it should be the sick individuals who commit these acts.

[spacebandit]

Originally posted by Jack
Originally posted by spitfire
Originally posted by Jack What used to be isolated and unheard of is now the biggest concern a parent can have. Which is why her parents are 100% to blame.

So the abductors aren't even 1% to blame?

I don't think you understand what I'm trying to say. The parents are responsible, yes, but when it comes to pointing the finger of blame it should be the sick individuals who commit these acts.

I have serious doubts as to wether there was a kidnapping or not. There are so many inconsistencies that I suspect, and still hope I'm wrong, that the kidnap story is just that, a story, and its purpose is to cover up something else.

[gracie24]

Gerry (Madeline's father) is complaining about all the negative side to the media.
Just because things he doesn't like are being said he comes out with an interview about it. Once again showing no emotion, absolutely nothing.
I still have my doubts about the parents.

[spacebandit]

Originally posted by gracie24
Gerry (Madeline's father) is complaining about all the negative side to the media.
Just because things he doesn't like are being said he comes out with an interview about it. Once again showing no emotion, absolutely nothing.
I still have my doubts about the parents.

Watched him give an interview at the edinburgh festival.

Not one inch the grieving parent

Not one inch the worried /distraught parent of a missing child.

Noticeable again that when they travel europe meeting heads of state and gladhanding anyone in front of a camera, they do it as a couple, but to UK they travel singly. I guess personal condolences from family here at home are not as important as the condolence from the pope in a 30 second public square stage managed "meeting" that he probably doesn't remember 5 minutes later.

and once again, while the eyes of the media were awaiting DNA tests in belgium - they showed not one jot of interest.

Political correctness is crippling the media and even the UK police from asking the pertinent questions.

Will be interesting next time a council estate mother leaves her kid to go out for a couple of hours for a few drinks and gets reported to social services.

Then we'll once again see the real depth of hypocrisy of the british media, social institutions and welfare services when they deal with that "incident" - whisking the child off into care and crucifying the mother, or a child is killed or seriously injured in an avoidable accident at home - lets see those parents get pilloried in the press.

the moral of the story of course is you are free to abandon you child to whatever the fates have in store, provided you are a white collar professional who can afford regular holidays abroad.

[Hugo]

I have actually stayed in the smae part of Portugal as the McCanns adn trust me it seems the safest place in the world. It's got such a friendly atmosphere and the parents would have no second thought about leaving their children their.

[gracie24]

Originally posted by {Checkmate}
I have actually stayed in the smae part of Portugal as the McCanns adn trust me it seems the safest place in the world. It's got such a friendly atmosphere and the parents would have no second thought about leaving their children their.

My friend has also stayed in the same hotel as where they stayed!
No matter how safe you think anywhere is....you still shouldn't leave your children alone!!
Surely you think your own home is safe, right? You still don't leave your children alone in your home for the amount of time they did.

[☺♥BB5♥☻&]

of course there to blaim

[sarahtheangel]

maddies mum now a formal suspect. blood found in higher car 5 weeks after her dispperance , blood in boot . hair and fibres . watch sky news .

[Jackie]

Im watching it now.

[gracie24]

I've said from the very beginning that there was something suspicious with the parents.
Can't watch Sky News right now but hopefully there will be something on the website.

[gracie24]

Kate McCann's has been warned by her lawyer that she could be charged today over her daughter's disappearance.
A family friend said Madeleine's mother has been made a formal suspect in the case.

Kate is back at police stationPortuguese police suggested to Mrs McCann that traces of Madeleine's blood were found in a car the family hired 25 days after the girl went missing, the friend added.

It is thought Kate is being asked more questions linked to the DNA tests on samples taken from the car.

During questioning yesterday, detectives suggested that traces of Madeleine's blood were discovered in the vehicle.

Mrs McCann told them there was "no way" her daughter's blood could have been found inside the car and she continues to protest her innocence, the friend said.

Her lawyer, Carlos Pinto de Abreu, has told her she could be charged in connection with her daughter's disappearance.


Crowd outside the police stationThe McCann family spokesperson Justine McGuiness said: "The police are treating Kate as if she is involved in the death of her daughter.

"That suggestion hasn't been put to Gerry, so they are treating them differently.

"It is a ridiculous suggestion."

A large crowd whistled and shouted as Kate arrived back in Portimao.

Mrs McCann was greeted by a huge crowd of journalists, locals and holidaymakers, many of them whistling and shouting at her.

One British tourist shouted: "We believe you, Kate." But there were apparent jeers from other people in the crowd.


Madeleine went missing on May 3Madeleine's mother has been made an "arguida", a formal suspect, in the case, according to her friend.

An arguida receives more protection under Portuguese law, including the right to remain silent in formal interviews.

Sky News Crime Correspondent Martin Brunt said: "The police are doing this so they can ask her a list of 22 questions about the night Madeleine disappeared."

"There are specific questions they need to ask and they can only do that if she is a suspect."

The friend added: "She is shocked and surprised in several ways. First of all that such an accusation could be made against her.

"And obviously she is concerned that such a line of investigation can become a distraction from further attempts to find Madeleine."

Gerry McCann is due to be re-interviewed at 2pm.

sky news

[Jackie]

I never for once suspected that they have anything to do with it but if theyre found guilt i personally be writing a letter along with millions of others to them.:thumbs:

[sarahtheangel]

i just think its odd that when she first went missing the parents did not seem upset . my daughter went mssing i would be hysterical . yesterday when she was let out of the police station is the first time i seen her upset .

[Razmataz]

Without creating a stir. I believe for some strange reason, they did it.

[sarahtheangel]

your wife is in a police staion a suspect would you bother to go on your blog gerry macann did does not add up at all .

[Jackie]

Oh i hope not all the way through ive been thinking no they could no way be involved in this tragic case .

[sarahtheangel]

your wife is in a police staion a suspect would you bother to go on your blog gerry macann did does not add up at all .

[Jackie]

Gerry mccann is about to arrive in 2 minutes for his interview.

[sarahtheangel]

hes just arrived.

[Sunny_01]

I have said on more than one occasion that their behaviour following the disappearance of Madeline has been odd.

I just hope that this little girl is found soon so that if she is dead she can be laid to rest. If she isnt then she can be given a normal life

[Sunny_01]

Madeleine: Mother 'Has Not Been Charged' - from sky news
Updated: 15:43, Friday September 07, 2007

Police have finished questioning Kate McCann but are not charging her over the disappearance of her daughter Madeleine, according to Sky sources.
The news came as Gerry McCann arrived at the Portuguese police station to be questioned again.

Kate arrives at police stationEarlier it had been suggested that Mrs McCann could be charged with the accidental death of her daughter.

Philomena McCann told Sky News that police have suggested Kate killed Madeleine by mistake.

Before going to the police station Mr McCann, writing on his blog, has dismissed the suggestion that his wife could have been involved in the four-year-old's disappearance as "ludicrous".

He said: "Anyone who knows anything about the 3rd May knows that Kate is completely innocent. We will fight this all the way and we will not stop looking for Madeleine."

Madeleine's aunt Philomena also dismissed the allegations and insisted Kate was innocent. She said: "I have never heard anything so utterly ludicrous in my entire life."

Kate has been made a formal suspect in the case, a family friend said.


Crowd outside the police stationPortuguese police suggested to Mrs McCann that traces of Madeleine's blood were found in a car the family hired 25 days after the girl went missing.

She told them there was "no way" her daughter's blood could have been found inside the vehicle, the friend said.

However, her lawyer, Carlos Pinto de Abreu, warned her she could be charged today.

Madeleine's father Gerry is still being treated as a witness.

The McCann family spokesperson Justine McGuiness said: "The police are treating Kate as if she is involved in the death of her daughter.

"That suggestion hasn't been put to Gerry, so they are treating them differently.

"It is a ridiculous suggestion."

The McCanns announced on August 31 that they would take legal action against a Portuguese newspaper which claimed they killed Madeleine.

A large crowd whistled and shouted as Kate arrived back in Portimao for more questioning.


Madeleine went missing on May 3Mrs McCann was greeted by journalists, locals and holidaymakers, many of them whistling and shouting at her.

One British tourist shouted: "We believe you, Kate." But there were apparent jeers from other people in the crowd.

Madeleine's mother has been made an "arguida", a formal suspect, in the case, according to her friend.

An arguida receives more protection under Portuguese law, including the right to remain silent in formal interviews.

Sky News Crime Correspondent Martin Brunt said: "The police are doing this so they can ask her a list of 22 questions about the night Madeleine disappeared."

"There are specific questions they need to ask and they can only do that if she is a suspect."

The friend added: "She is shocked and surprised in several ways. First of all that such an accusation could be made against her.

"And obviously she is concerned that such a line of investigation can become a distraction from further attempts to find Madeleine."

Gerry McCann is due to be re-interviewed this afternoon.

[Matt08]

Even if Maddy isn't found I still think that Kate and Gerry should face procecution or even a jail sentence for leaving three young children in their appartment alone.

[Bigbrotherin]

NEWS: Kate now suspect

Police are suggesting she may have accidently killed her, panicked, moved her body and hidden it and then returned to it 25 days later and disposed it. Blood was found in a hire car she took from a place in the middle of know where back to the hotel she was staying in.

[Bigbrotherin]

NOTE - In portugal your only made a formal suspect if they have strong reason to be suspicious of you. :conf2:

[Bigbrotherin]

NEWS - Another formal suspect has been confirmed - source: sky news

Maybe it's her dad thats the other suspect? He's the one currently being interviewed.

[Scarlett.]

Why is ITV news on?

[Scarlett.]

I cant belive they think Kate killed Maddie
:nono:

[Bigbrotherin]

Originally posted by Chewy
Why is ITV news on?
probably covering this i dunno, i dont watch it lol.

[Scarlett.]

Originally posted by Bigbrotherin
Originally posted by Chewy
Why is ITV news on?
probably covering this i dunno, i dont watch it lol. Lol I turned over for Antony Cotton and got a news report

[Matt08]

Originally posted by Chewy
I cant belive they think Kate killed Maddie
:nono:

You never know, she didn't seem very emotional when she went missing.

[Scarlett.]

Originally posted by Matthew
Originally posted by Chewy
I cant belive they think Kate killed Maddie
:nono:

You never know, she didn't seem very emotional when she went missing. but why would they get the case on TV? surely if she killed her she would want to keep it quiet
plus they keep making appeals instead of letting it fade away

[Bigbrotherin]

Originally posted by Chewy
Originally posted by Bigbrotherin
Originally posted by Chewy
Why is ITV news on?
probably covering this i dunno, i dont watch it lol. Lol I turned over for Antony Cotton and got a news report
Why would you watch him for? lol

and what is happening on your DP is that from the Emmerdale webcam and is it from a future storyline?

[Bigbrotherin]

Originally posted by Chewy
Originally posted by Matthew
Originally posted by Chewy
I cant belive they think Kate killed Maddie
:nono:

You never know, she didn't seem very emotional when she went missing. but why would they get the case on TV? surely if she killed her she would want to keep it quiet
plus they keep making appeals instead of letting it fade away
They dont invite the press, they come of their own accord and they make appeals to make it look genuine?

[Scarlett.]

Originally posted by Bigbrotherin
Originally posted by Chewy
Originally posted by Bigbrotherin
Originally posted by Chewy
Why is ITV news on?
probably covering this i dunno, i dont watch it lol. Lol I turned over for Antony Cotton and got a news report
Why would you watch him for? lol

and what is happening on your DP is that from the Emmerdale webcam and is it from a future storyline? its a big fire thats coming up (and I like AC! although I'd have preffered Bradley Walshs chat show)

[Scarlett.]

Originally posted by Bigbrotherin
Originally posted by Chewy
Originally posted by Matthew
Originally posted by Chewy
I cant belive they think Kate killed Maddie
:nono:

You never know, she didn't seem very emotional when she went missing. but why would they get the case on TV? surely if she killed her she would want to keep it quiet
plus they keep making appeals instead of letting it fade away
They dont invite the press, they come of their own accord and they make appeals to make it look genuine? yeaThey werent emotional because they were putting on a brave face, and concentrating on finding Maddie

[supernoodles!]

Its a bit funny how shes managed to keep the exact same blank expression for what 4 months now,every times shes out in public.Did anyone see Kates mum and dad on itv just?diddnt look very upset,shocked,surprised,anxious to me.It just amazes me how calm the whole family seem to be.

[Jackie]

Yeah i was watching that her mum didnt seemed upset but i think it coild be shock at the moment some people show emotions differently.I do hope they had nothing to do with her dissaperance.

[Jack]

Originally posted by supernoodles!
Its a bit funny how shes managed to keep the exact same blank expression for what 4 months now,every times shes out in public.Did anyone see Kates mum and dad on itv just?diddnt look very upset,shocked,surprised,anxious to me.It just amazes me how calm the whole family seem to be.

As Jackie said, people deal with trauma in different ways. They also have other children, who they must remain strong for.

[gracie24]

Whatever happens with Madeline, whether she is alive or not, her parents should be charged with neglecting their children. I just have a horrible feeling that they're going to get away with that if they're not charged with anything more serious.

I honestly don't think they're completely innocent.
The Portuguese police wouldn't interview them like this if they weren't seriously suspicious about them.

Kate's friends are saying "oh if you knew her, you would know that there is no way on earth she would do this" - but the thing is, nobody knows anybody, you only know yourself. If people knew people were going to murder people surely they could stop it from happening!!

[bananarama]

I don't know what to think. I do have a problem however with the portugese police. Their method of working is like something out of the stone age.

If blood has been found in a hire car that was hired 5 weeks after the girl went missing then the body must have been hidden fairly local until the parents presumambly moved it to another location 5 weeks after she went missing.

That does not say much for the accuracy of the searches that went on. Neither does it say much about the police ability to monitor the couple. If true they must have moved the body right under the noses of the police.

Also their is the first suspect. If they were wrong about him they could be wrong about the latest suspects....

I don't know if the parents have been responsible or not but I am convinced the police over there are the biggest bunch of amateurs you would never wish to meet up wth...

[gracie24]

The police work completely different over there though, they don't like to bring attention to things and disturb the people of Portugal with the cases.

They were a bit slow in the beginning but, I honestly don't think that it would have made THAT much difference.

I might be wrong.

[supernoodles!]

It is possible that the first suspect could have been helping gerry and kate remove madelines body from the apartment.A part of me suspects that Kate,being a doctor may have sedated maddy in order to go out for a meal and leave her and the twins behind,then came back to realise that it had gone horribly wrong and as a result of shock and fear used the original suspect (is it john?i forget) to help cover up her death.
I understand that people deal with grief in many different ways but look at when she met the pope,as a catholic kate should have been overwhelmed that such an important figure in her life was holding her daughters photo and praying for her return but still,no emotion!
I think theres no smoke without fire but if it is proven that madelines family are not connected in anyway then i will feel terribly guilty as no parent deserves to go through this regardless of wether or not they have neglected their children previously,which in my opinion,they have.

[bananarama]

Originally posted by gracie24
The police work completely different over there though, they don't like to bring attention to things and disturb the people of Portugal with the cases.

They were a bit slow in the beginning but, I honestly don't think that it would have made THAT much difference.

I might be wrong.

They are in the stone age. Take the latest interviews. They do not record the interview. Instead they write everything down in their language then they have to write it again translated into English. Then they only produce a summary of all the notes for the suspects or witnesses to agree to or not.

Translating from one langugae to another is fraught with dangers of misunderstandings. Having no recording to re-listen to only translated notes makes for an investigation that has a value rating of almost zero..

The stone age....

[gracie24]

That's just the way they work!!
If the Portuguese people are happy with that, then why should they change it all because a British family have gone over there?

I can see where you're coming from, but I really don't think if they had computers, recorded interviews, it would make that much difference.
It's not like the police officers are actually stupid.
There are a lot of good translator out there too.

The Forensic work was done in Britian and that's what has been the most influencial thing to put Kate as a suspect, not the actual Portuguese police making a decision purely on questions.

[bananarama]

Originally posted by gracie24
That's just the way they work!!
If the Portuguese people are happy with that, then why should they change it all because a British family have gone over there?

I can see where you're coming from, but I really don't think if they had computers, recorded interviews, it would make that much difference.
It's not like the police officers are actually stupid.
There are a lot of good translator out there too.

The Forensic work was done in Britian and that's what has been the most influencial thing to put Kate as a suspect, not the actual Portuguese police making a decision purely on questions.

Recorded interviews would make a world of difference. They could listen time and time again and pick up on discrepencies they may not see from transalted documents which are tedious to sift through.

Not recording an interview is a crime in itself as they are asking for miscarriages of justice to come about.

They need to change not for the sake of a British family but for the sake of any crime and commited in that country.

The fact they refused to give a description of the girl and what she was wearing imediately she went missing is incompetent byond belief. There are no excuses for the terrible incompetent way the investigation has been prosecuted...

[gracie24]

Originally posted by bananarama
Originally posted by gracie24
That's just the way they work!!
If the Portuguese people are happy with that, then why should they change it all because a British family have gone over there?

I can see where you're coming from, but I really don't think if they had computers, recorded interviews, it would make that much difference.
It's not like the police officers are actually stupid.
There are a lot of good translator out there too.

The Forensic work was done in Britian and that's what has been the most influencial thing to put Kate as a suspect, not the actual Portuguese police making a decision purely on questions.

Recorded interviews would make a world of difference. They could listen time and time again and pick up on discrepencies they may not see from transalted documents which are tedious to sift through.

Not recording an interview is a crime in itself as they are asking for miscarriages of justice to come about.

They need to change not for the sake of a British family but for the sake of any crime and commited in that country.

The fact they refused to give a description of the girl and what she was wearing imediately she went missing is incompetent byond belief. There are no excuses for the terrible incompetent way the investigation has been prosecuted...

They're just policing the way they would normally.
It's a different country, we can expect everyone to follow the same rules as we do because things are just done differently, it's a different culture in Portugal.

I'm sure they're happy with the "incompitent" way the Portuguese police are handling the situation because it just gives the McCanns an extending holiday in Portugal the longer it takes the police to figure things out.

[spitfire]

ON SKY.COM WEBSITE just now:


A family member has claimed she was offered a deal by police - that she would serve only two years in prison if she admitted accidentally killing her daughter.


Police are said to believe that Madeleine was killed accidentally and that her body was hidden, then moved and hidden again.

They are not treating Madeleine's disappearance as murder.

There have been reports that Mrs McCann, 39, is likely to be charged with causing the accidental death of her daughter

[Sunny_01]

Madeleine: Mum 'Offered Deal To Confess'
Updated: 19:41, Friday September 07, 2007

Kate McCann has been named as a formal suspect in the "death" of her missing four-year-old daughter Madeleine.
A family member has claimed she was offered a deal by police - that she would serve only two years in prison if she admitted accidentally killing her daughter.

Kate McCann leaves police stationPolice are said to believe that Madeleine was killed accidentally and that her body was hidden, then moved and hidden again.

They are not treating Madeleine's disappearance as murder.

There have been reports that Mrs McCann, 39, is likely to be charged with causing the accidental death of her daughter.

She was questioned by police again today but released without being charged. Detectives quizzed her for 11 hours yesterday.

Police have suggested that Madeleine's blood was found in a car hired by the McCanns 25 days after their daughter's disappearance.

Gerry McCann's sister Philomena said Mrs McCann was offered a deal through her lawyer to confess to killing her daughter by accident and then disposing of her daughter.

Mr McCann is now being questioned in the same police station in Portimao, Portugal.

Before he arrived he said that any suggestion that his wife was involved in Madeleine's disappearance from their holiday apartment on May 3 was "ludicrous".


Gerry McCann arrives at police stationWriting on his blog he said: "Anyone who knows anything about May 3 knows that Kate is completely innocent. We will fight this all the way and we will not stop looking for Madeleine."

Mrs McCann's father Brian Healy told Sky News: "It would be a joke if it wasn't so disgusting. My daughter's not like that. I just want to hug her."

Family and friends in Rothley, Leicestershire, have said there is "something untoward" in the police investigation. Mrs McCann's mother Susan Healy has suggested that evidence may have been planted in the hired car.

Portuguese police have confirmed that they have a new formal suspect - or arguida - in the case but did not identify them. However, family friends have said that Kate McCann is that suspect.

The only person previously named as a suspect is British expat Robert Murat. He has denied any involvement.


Madeleine went missing on May 3Sky News crime correspondent Martin Brunt said Mrs McCann, who has returned to her home after being questioned by police again today, reportedly remains concerned that she could be charged very soon.

The McCann family spokeswoman Justine McGuiness said: "The police are treating Kate as if she is involved in the death of her daughter.

"That suggestion hasn't been put to Gerry, so they are treating them differently. It is a ridiculous suggestion."

A large crowd whistled and shouted as Mrs McCann arrived back in Portimao for more questioning.

One British tourist shouted: "We believe you, Kate." But there seemed to be jeers from other people in the crowd.

Portuguese criminal law expert Luis Rolo told Sky News: "To be named an arguida means the police already have a few suspicions that this person might have committed a crime."

He said a judge may now ask Mrs McCann to hand over her passport or impose other conditions on her behaviour.

A friend of the McCanns said of Kate: "She is shocked and surprised in several ways. First of all that such an accusation could be made against her.

"And obviously she is concerned that such a line of investigation can become a distraction from further attempts to find Madeleine."

www.sky.com/news

[supernoodles!]

bloody hell

[gracie24]

2 years isn't enough if she pleads guilty to the "accidental" killing of Madeline.

Her lawyer obviously knows a lot more than is being let out because surely he would only suggest that she plead guilty if it was going to be really difficult for him/her to defend Kate pleading innocent.

[Benji]

Originally posted by supernoodles!
It is possible that the first suspect could have been helping gerry and kate remove madelines body from the apartment.A part of me suspects that Kate,being a doctor may have sedated maddy in order to go out for a meal and leave her and the twins behind,then came back to realise that it had gone horribly wrong and as a result of shock and fear used the original suspect (is it john?i forget) to help cover up her death.
I understand that people deal with grief in many different ways but look at when she met the pope,as a catholic kate should have been overwhelmed that such an important figure in her life was holding her daughters photo and praying for her return but still,no emotion!
I think theres no smoke without fire but if it is proven that madelines family are not connected in anyway then i will feel terribly guilty as no parent deserves to go through this regardless of wether or not they have neglected their children previously,which in my opinion,they have.

and for all this TV campaigning etc, that could all easily be an act - i mean, remember ian huntley, he rang the police - why? maybe its something whats going on in there mind?

I thought that she could have sedated her too!!! - And i do believe - that its the people you least expect - I also think that if they do admit to killing there daughter i think that they should get more than 20 years for what they have put the world through - i mean, they have literally had the world searching for poor little maddie, I do think they/she/he did it, and i have said that all along. Im really sorry for them, i mean why would they want to kill there daughter? - even if it was accidental it was still wrong!

[supernoodles!]

I just know its going to turn out shes dead now,and i think its going to be proven that kate was involved.I mean obviously I hope Im wrong but ive had these suspicions for over two months now and finally evidence that I may have been right to have these suspicions all along.I feel really sad atm.Poor Maddie

[supernoodles!]

Originally posted by Benji
Originally posted by supernoodles!
It is possible that the first suspect could have been helping gerry and kate remove madelines body from the apartment.A part of me suspects that Kate,being a doctor may have sedated maddy in order to go out for a meal and leave her and the twins behind,then came back to realise that it had gone horribly wrong and as a result of shock and fear used the original suspect (is it john?i forget) to help cover up her death.
I understand that people deal with grief in many different ways but look at when she met the pope,as a catholic kate should have been overwhelmed that such an important figure in her life was holding her daughters photo and praying for her return but still,no emotion!
I think theres no smoke without fire but if it is proven that madelines family are not connected in anyway then i will feel terribly guilty as no parent deserves to go through this regardless of wether or not they have neglected their children previously,which in my opinion,they have.

and for all this TV campaigning etc, that could all easily be an act - i mean, remember ian huntley, he rang the police - why? maybe its something whats going on in there mind?

I thought that she could have sedated her too!!! - And i do believe - that its the people you least expect - I also think that if they do admit to killing there daughter i think that they should get more than 20 years for what they have put the world through - i mean, they have literally had the world searching for poor little maddie, I do think they/she/he did it, and i have said that all along. Im really sorry for them, i mean why would they want to kill there daughter? - even if it was accidental it was still wrong!

Exactly,he was a good or supposed good friend to both Holly and Jessica,he appealed for their safe return on tv,he even gave a statement to the police before he was cosidered a suspect.More often than not its someone with a connection to the victim.

[Benji]

tbh - this may sound so bad, but - if they are found out to be the "killer(s)" then they are definately going to remain the rest of their lifes hated by everyone, and tbh - one of the 2 may commit suicide - i dont think they could handle it 'inside' - maybe thats what there scared of - Going to prison, maybe there thinking - we dont want to go to prison so we better act as if were concerned parents etc. - and get the world involved etc. i dont know, i may be totally wrong

[supernoodles!]

I know I mean if they are the killers or have something to do with the death or dissapearance of maddie i was thinking well the obvious reason for them to cover this up would be to avoid prison.But then I thought right,if I stick to my theory of what I think may have happened,which is that Kate sedated Maddy in order to be able to have a peacefull dinner with friends and Gerry,it went wrong,she went back to the room at tenpm to pretend to check on maddy and then returned from the apartment and pretended to her dinne guests that she`d been snatched then why would she go through the ordeal of having to lie to the world and set about disposing of her own daughters body!
I for one would rather face the prison sentence
A,becuase I would feel so guilty I couldnt possibly carry on living let alone living my normal life and
B,Becuase if i ever got found out i lied about it then the whole world would hate me ,wheras if i admitted it was accident then yeah id go to prison but i would possibly gan sympathy from at least close fmaily members............That is of course if kate i responsible and lets not forget it may not be an accident even if she is,it could still be a murder.

[Benji]

either way, which ever story does happen i dont think it will be happy and there may be a few arrests and prison sentences - i also think that, if kate did do it - how would she get rid of the body in such a short space of time? where would she have put it? where would she have moved it too? Hhmmmmmmmm,

and if she did kill maddie (on purpose) why would she do it to maddie? and not any/all of her children?

Thinking about what ive just wrote i think that it HAS to be Accidental due to nothing happening to the other children. - I mean, if someone had broken into the aprtment, why would they take maddie? why maddie?

[supernoodles!]

I dont know,maybe three year olds are more desirable to peadophillies,as horrible as that sounds.
However im going to stick with my current thought which is that Kate is definetly in some way or another accidental or not related to the dissapearance of maddy.
We have to remember that the care hired by the mc canns 25 days after the dissapearance of maddy was found to contain traces of her blood.Therefore this may suggest that the car was used to transport maddies body to else where.

[spacebandit]

Well there is the "killing". - Accidental or otherwise


Then there would be the rather massive fraud charge - for the settiing up of the appeal fund which they have directly benefitted from.

When they threatened to sue a reporter for libel, a civil case in Portugal, and like civil cases here have to be paid for out of your own pocket, I wonder where that money was supposed to come from ?, its not cheap to sue someone, even for a couple of doctors.

Like has been said before thay have been given a shockingly easy ride, especially by the British media.

If at some point a kid goes missing from, say a council estate in britain, and it turns out the parents left it alone, and they have other kids - I wonder what the difference in reporting will be when dealing with a low ncome couple rather than a couple of doctors ?. Wonder how social services will react.

I suppose it comforting to know that Middle Class professionals are treated differently when it comes to child neglect - especially comforting if you are a Middle Class professional getting a bit fed up and "wanting to get your life back", at least you won't be treated like those grimy working class oiks and low income single parent familes.

[Benji]

OK....

I think that what will be, will be - i can only sugges that they either won up to doing it or they find maddy (highly unlikely) or they find other evidence.

Whether they find maddie tommrorow or in the next 50 years - i think they WILL get to the bottom of this, and i do think the maddie case is coming to a close

[Wasted]

I thought it would be like a procedure or something to interrogate the parents like this in the first place. I'm surprised it's taken them this long to do that.

[Benji]

I would have thought they would have done this first -

Maybe they have left it this late to try and break them, they may crack up - we dont know - we my never know

[the_stillness]

Originally posted by gracie24
2 years isn't enough if she pleads guilty to the "accidental" killing of Madeline.

Her lawyer obviously knows a lot more than is being let out because surely he would only suggest that she plead guilty if it was going to be really difficult for him/her to defend Kate pleading innocent.

Plea bargaining is what happens very often and sometimes it is a tempting offer when overwealming evidence is evident. I haven't followed so closely about the Madeleine McCann case, but if Blood samples have been found and that evidence can really only point to the parent or parents, then it is looking quite bad for the McCann's, isn't it?

But she has been released for now, so it will be a bit of a wait yet?

This thing has been going on for ages now. It has been publicised soooooooooo much - it is unfair really. All those other missing children out there and all we hear is Madeleine, Madeleine, Madeleine. It is a terrible situation, but no more terrible than someone else going missing

[Benji]

i totally agree - but dont you get the feeling that the mcanns are trying to hide something? - i mean like you said, no other families have gone to this much trouble to get there children back. Maybe the mcanns know that they arnt really going to get there children back and thought all this publisising is only an act to deter the world from the real news.

Maybe this could be a conspricay theaory in 5 years time....

[the_stillness]

Originally posted by Benji
i totally agree - but dont you get the feeling that the mcanns are trying to hide something? - i mean like you said, no other families have gone to this much trouble to get there children back. Maybe the mcanns know that they arnt really going to get there children back and thought all this publisising is only an act to deter the world from the real news.

Maybe this could be a conspricay theaory in 5 years time....

There are a load of maybes at the minute. But the work that has gone into this particular investigation is pretty extensive. The McCann's will be unaware that much of the investigating which goes on behind the scenes - will be focused on the McCann's themselves.

I do also suspect the same thing that you do Benji. I feel that the McCann's have gone to so much trouble in trying to locate and find Madeleine - that it could just be a smokescreen to hide their own guilt? We shall have to wait and see how things develop over the next few days

[Benji]

Well, Its been good to chat, but im going to bed - hopefully Little maddie too is resting in peace somewhere.

xx

[bananarama]

Originally posted by supernoodles!
I dont know,maybe three year olds are more desirable to peadophillies,as horrible as that sounds.
However Im going to stick with my current thought which is that Kate is definetly in some way or another accidental or not related to the dissapearance of maddy.
We have to remember that the care hired by the mc canns 25 days after the dissapearance of maddy was found to contain traces of her blood.Therefore this may suggest that the car was used to transport maddies body to else where.


Amazing how a dead body for 5 weeks still was able to continue bleeding. If they were clever enough to do all that the police suggest don't you think they would have wrapped the body up so as to avoid any dried blood getting in the car.....

Could be in the interest of tourism that they want to wrap up the investigation one way or another.....We have to trust police when they say they have found blood where they say they have found it.........Never heard of police corruption.......

With massive media coverage amazing how they managed to go back to the body hidden where the searches could not find it and move it elseware while the media were watching every move they made.........A tall story if ever there was one.....

[Ruth]

There's something about Kate and Gerry McCann I don't like. However, that's not enough for me to think that they might have killed Madeleine. I don't know....that just doesn't add up to me.

The Portugese Police system is very different to over here...suspects have more rights than witnesses, so sometimes people are formally named as suspects, in order that they receive those rights.

The saddest thing of all of course, is nobody is any closer to knowing exactly what happened to Madeleine, except whoever did take her. I would love to be wrong, but I really don't see a happy ending to this matter.

[Ruth]

Originally posted by Bigbrotherin
NOTE - In portugal your only made a formal suspect if they have strong reason to be suspicious of you. :conf2:

Not so, as someone can declare themselves as suspect. And the Police have to be suspicious that you did something to name you as a suspect over here as well!

[Bells]

It's such an alarming twist after the entire fiasco over the last few months. It really does seem so unbelievable, but such serious charges wouldn't be made without the necessary evidence, I don't think. Although, of course, it is always necessary to make sure that every single possibility is explored - however the question is, why now? Personally I'm not sure what I believe right now, but I do think things are very fishy. There have been explanations about what exactly happened that day which tend to change quite a bit, which only seems more confusing.

I really hope that the McCanns had nothing to do with it, especially considering the fact that they still have young twins. I will keeping my eye on this news story for quite a while to find out what the overall verdict is.

[Jackie]

Yes i never thought for once they could have anything to do with it.I do hope i am right.

[Sunny_01]

The latest news is on sky

http://news.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,91210-1283278,00.html

I just find the whole thing very uncomfortable, I have always said I was not keen on the Mcanns and the way they have behaved following the disappearence of Maddie, however I am still reluctant to say I think they killed her, not sure why.

As for police "finding" evidence in the hire car, well I have no faith in the justice system at all, whether it is in the UK or abroad. They are just as liekly to plant evidence or fabricate it to get some kind of closure to this case. The portugese police must be fed up with being over run by press, and having their country under scrutiny.

Also offering Kate a sentence of less than 2 years if she admits to accidently killing Maddie seems strange to me, they appear to want to just get things over and done with.

[Jackie]

All along i never thought for once they would be involved and hoping their not their just putting pressure on the Mcanns to see if their going to confess to something.

[rooterwar]

Just been announced on sky news.

[Benji]

Ooooooooooooo, why? - Maybe they know they might get found out... (Seriously, im not saying this to be horrible but..)....Its like a Soap, It has lots of twists and turns, its seriously has had some thought about it.

I think they did do it and i have said that since the beggining -

[rooterwar]

I don't think the parents have done anything to Maddy, but what about the others who allegedly checked on her that night.


It is stated in many reports online, that 2 freinds individually had checked on the children after Gerry had checked and before Kate found Madeleine missing.

So If Madeleine was there when these two people checked then how on earth would Gerry or kate have had the oportunity to hurt or remove Madeleine? they wouldn't! It doesn't look like the police have taken this into account very much.

If Madeleine wasn't there then why didn't the two friends notice or say something? or maybe they didn't check? if not, where did they go when leaving the meal? Surely the police have questioned these two people? they must be key witnesses and yet we have heard little mention of them on the tv news!

Who checked and exactly when is crucial and as far as I can see needs to be looked into more, many of the reports differ on the times!

[spacebandit]

After saying they'd stay til the kid was found
After having their family leak the line of questioning they received from the police
After stating yesterday that they would stay to clear their name - finding Maddie now a forgotten fiction
Suddenly.... they will leave tomorrow
Back to the UK where the tame press will not ask questions in case they upset them and they don't sell their story to their particular paper

and from where they will no doubt fight extradition should the Portugese Police want to charge them

It stunk to high heaven before - its worse now

[Scarlett.]

I think they just want to get away from where Maddie disappeared (or was killed)

[Sticks]

Why aren't the Portuguese police arresting them and detaining them for murder!

[Sticks]

Originally Posted by Space Bandit
In a survey of murder cases carried out in 1998 16% of murder victims were members of the murderers family and 64% where friends and acquaintances - strangers accounted for the remaining 20%.


Thankyou for that, I knew that the crime statistics showed that most murders are committed in the family. From day one I has suspected that Madeline's parents should be prime suspects. They are clever and devious people, so hiding the body would have been no problem for them. They would have figured out how to do it.

If this was in the UK, they would have been charged with murder weeks ago.

Remember that lass who claimed her fiancée was killed by road ragers, and it turned out she had stabbed him in a fit of rage? People do these things and lie to cover up.

[Sticks]

More evidence from British police that Kate is hiding something (http://www.people.co.uk/news/tm_headline=brit-police-watch-and-listenfrom-the-room-next-door%26method=full%26objectid=19758723%26siteid=93 463-name_page.html)

The evidence that they killed Madeline is mounting everyday

[Hugo]

Originally posted by Sticks
More evidence from British police that Kate is hiding something (http://www.people.co.uk/news/tm_headline=brit-police-watch-and-listenfrom-the-room-next-door%26method=full%26objectid=19758723%26siteid=93 463-name_page.html)

The evidence that they killed Madeline is mounting everyday

From a newspaper that can't spell :thumbs:

[Sunny_01]

Lets just hope that at some point Madeline is found, even if she is dead that little girl needs to be laid to rest. Maddie kind of belongs to everyone now, she has been taken into the hearts of many across the world.

[Sunny_01]

I struggle to understand how a couple who made huge statements about staying in Portugal and not being bullied into returning to the UK are now in fact on route home as soon as they are questioned and called official suspects. They assure Portugese police they will return if needed, however what if they dont like why they want them to return? will they fight it? using public money for their fight?

http://news.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,91210-1283316,00.html

[Amy21]

Originally posted by wobblywoo
Just been announced on sky news.

I just heard this right now on the radio that there going home to give their two other children a chance to get back to normality. To be honest I think this is the best thing they can do. I dont see any point in them staying in Portugal as they cant really do anything. I still believe they didnt do anything to Madeleine and that she is still out there somewhere or some sicko has killed her. Its only a matter of time til her body is found or someone sees her and reports seeing her to the police. Please keep praying for Madeleine safe return to those people who support the parents. Every person supporting this really helps alot.

[Sunny_01]

They have had over a 100 days to bring their children home to return to normal life, this all seems very unusual to me. We will stay has been the message all along, question them, make them suspects and hey ho we are off home for the sake of our other children!!!

[spacebandit]

Off home for the sake of the other children, after all the big talk about firstly staying 'til Maddie is found and then staying to "clear their names", as soon as they are questioned properly - something that should have happened months ago, as happens to other families in similar circmstances - they suddenly run back "home". It stinks

There is another angle to this I wonder if they have considered.

If Maddie is suspected of being murdered, the jurisdiction of the crime technically does not matter. Maddie was a British national - her parents, now suspects, are British Nationals - the fact that the crime was committed abroad, and out of UK jurisdiction would not stop the British Pllice investigating fully and properly the death of a British National once they return to the UK.

At one point will the authorities stop handling these people with kid gloves and treat them like every other murder case, and aggressively pursue lines of inquiry and suspects, regardless of whether or not that includes the parents.

Or why not just admit the so called "middle classes" are above the law when it comes to acts committed against children, as opposed to the poor working classes and poor single parent families.

Who get hauled before court by social services if they leave their kids alone for a few hours while they pop out for a pint and some chips, and the kid[s] don't even get hurt.

[Amy21]

Originally posted by Sunny_01
They have had over a 100 days to bring their children home to return to normal life, this all seems very unusual to me. We will stay has been the message all along, question them, make them suspects and hey ho we are off home for the sake of our other children!!!

I think it has nothing to do with them being questioned as suspects for them to make up an excuse to go home. I think reality has hit them hard and they have thought its best for them to go home now so their other children can get back to normal life. It cant be good for them to be away from home and not be living their normal life. They need to get back into normality if their children want a decent life. I dont think or suspect anything wrong with them now deciding to go home. I think its the right thing to do. I hope for their sakes they can adjust back into their lives as best as possible. Come on everyone have a heart there child has been kidnapped surely you must know how awful they must be feeling right now. Give them a break and support them through this hard time. And also keep hoping and praying Madeleine turns up safe and sound and back to her parents :bigsmile:.

[Retroman]

All I can say is, why would anyone kill their own daughter?
[if one of the parents was a little disturbed, the chances of them both being murderers/mentally unstable is slim to none.]

Then, turn it into a worldwide event and attract endless police and people of authority, investigation teams etc? Only to draw attention to themselves and potentially get thrown in prison for several life sentences.

I think people believe they killed their own child because that makes a better story, and also gives them someone to blame instead of constantly wondering what happened.

Now if you're suggesting they paid someone to kidnap and kill their child for them, again..they'd both have to be mentally disturbed in order to do such a thing. And im pretty sure their quality of life wasn't all that bad, so I don't see what they had to gain out of it.

[Sticks]

One thought I wondered is will Leicestershire social services take their other children off of them or at least put them on the at risk register, since the parents are formally suspected of killing their eldest child.

If I was in charge of social services there, that is what I would do, at least to make sure the department was covered.

[Psylocke]

Originally posted by Retroman
All I can say is, why would anyone kill their own daughter?
[if one of the parents was a little disturbed, the chances of them both being murderers/mentally unstable is slim to none.]

Then, turn it into a worldwide event and attract endless police and people of authority, investigation teams etc? Only to draw attention to themselves and potentially get thrown in prison for several life sentences.

I think people believe they killed their own child because that makes a better story, and also gives them someone to blame instead of constantly wondering what happened.

Now if you're suggesting they paid someone to kidnap and kill their child for them, again..they'd both have to be mentally disturbed in order to do such a thing. And Im pretty sure their quality of life wasn't all that bad, so I don't see what they had to gain out of it.

Theres somthing called Accidental Murder.And if the sedating story is true,highly plausible

[Retroman]

Well if that was true, they'd still have to be mentally unstable to invite everyone to investigate...and potentially find them out.
Plus it was accidental, so they shouldn't need to worry about being convicted murderers.

And if one parent killed their child, the other one would have had to agree to keep it quiet. If my partner accidentally killed my child I wouldn't want to protect them. But of course, that's just me.

But yea, basically...
They killed their child by accident, so decided to improve matters by lying to the entire world that she'd been kidnapped, and thus potentially go to jail for that too.

Also, if they disposed of the body somewhere..it must be nearby and in the UK. Surely friends and family, or even neighbours and townspeople would be aware of them disappearing out of the country for a while before telling the police their daughter was missing.

And for two regular parents, they've done an awful good job of hiding her over here. Especially considering everyone is aware of their missing daughter.

You can't go around accusing parents of murdering their children just because you're growing tired of not finding out who it was...
And throwing plausible stories around doesn't make them true either.

You're quite possibly contributing to the ruin of two people's names, who have done nothing but been through the trauma of losing their daughter.

[Sunny_01]

Originally posted by Amy21
Originally posted by Sunny_01
They have had over a 100 days to bring their children home to return to normal life, this all seems very unusual to me. We will stay has been the message all along, question them, make them suspects and hey ho we are off home for the sake of our other children!!!

I think it has nothing to do with them being questioned as suspects for them to make up an excuse to go home. I think reality has hit them hard and they have thought its best for them to go home now so their other children can get back to normal life. It cant be good for them to be away from home and not be living their normal life. They need to get back into normality if their children want a decent life. I dont think or suspect anything wrong with them now deciding to go home. I think its the right thing to do. I hope for their sakes they can adjust back into their lives as best as possible. Come on everyone have a heart there child has been kidnapped surely you must know how awful they must be feeling right now. Give them a break and support them through this hard time. And also keep hoping and praying Madeleine turns up safe and sound and back to her parents :bigsmile:.

I agree it is right for the children to be home living as normal a life as is possible. I have said from Maddie being missing a couple of weeks that they should get the other children home and into some kind of normal routine, I know as a parent thats what I would like to think I would have done.

You know what Amy I really, really do hope they are innocent, I have said before that I dont want them to be involved, I cant get my head round how parents would ever hurt their children. However the reality is parents do hurt their kids and just because they have been in the public eye and are middle class does not mean they can be above suspicion. I have said before and I will say again I really want to be wrong on my gut feelings about this case.

As for Maddie, I will keep praying for that little girl, I have 2 daughters and can not imagine one of them being missing from my life, just the thought makes me sad.

[Sticks]

On one of the other forums, some of the posters have been saying that Leicestershire Social services should remove or put on the at risk register their other children. They are after all suspected of killing their child, and according to the radio the Portuguese police believe they have enough evidence already to convict them.

If I were in LSS, I definitely would be taking action, if only to make sure the department was covered.

[Sunny_01]

I am pretty sure that Leicester Social serivces will be doing something to ensure the safety of the 2 children. They may not whip them away as that is very difficult for young children to understand, especially those who have already lost a sibling and had their routine thrown to pot by being in another country for a couple of months. Also we need to remember they are not and have not at this time been found guilty of any crime. Social services will not want to make any hasty decisions that show them in a bad light.

If portugese police already had enough to arrest and convict them then why did they let them leave the country. All of what we hear is rumour at this point.

I would suspect they will evaluate them and ensure that the family has regular supervision to maintain contact with the children.

[Sunny_01]

It appears Portugese police are continuing to try and build a case against the Mcanns

http://news.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,91210-1283359,00.html

[Jackie]

I watch the mccanns on gmtv this morning landing at the airport and arriving home the press are everywhere.

[Sticks]

Originally posted by Sunny_01
Also we need to remember they are not and have not at this time been found guilty of any crime. Social services will not want to make any hasty decisions that show them in a bad light.


What about "Better safe than sorry and pilloried in the press"

According to the BBC (link) (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6986514.stm)


Police and representatives from Leicestershire social services are meeting on Monday afternoon to discuss Madeleine's disappearance and the naming of her parents as suspects.


Social Services are already on the case.

[bananarama]

Leaving Portugal at this time is I think the best they could do. The Portuguese press are whipping up a frenzy of anti Mc'cann feelings and as such some hot heads might attempt violence against them. In all their interests leaving Portugal has to be the wisest decision. Guilty or not.......

If the Mc'cann's had intended to hurt the twins then it would have happened long ago....If they are responsible for the loss of their eldest daughter I think it is almost certainly a tragic accident of some sort rather than cold blooded neglect or murder.

I doubt the twins are at risk at all with all the media glare and accusations I think they will go out of there way to see they remain safe..

At this stage until more is known about the evidence that an incompetent police force have gathered I think social services should monitor but not remove from parents.

Children so young need their parents and to remove them could be psycholigically very damaging for the kids...

What matters is what is best for the children and not if social services get egg on their faces.

[Sticks]

Some forums are getting a bit wary of this subject, since anyone voicing certain opinions as to the involvement of the McCanns in certain ways is being seen to be libellous.

Is this a subject we should continue to discuss here?

Can we have a moderator ruling here.

[bananarama]

More details about the DNA in the car just announced. They found half a match DNA and a Full match DNA in the car. They do not say what the DNA was from however. Also a DNA macth on the window sill of the apartment.......The evidence is being submitted to the Portuguese prosecuter for consideration tomorrow...

The devil will still be in the detail as there are possible reasons for them finding DNA where they have.....

[spacebandit]

Originally posted by Sticks
Some forums are getting a bit wary of this subject, since anyone voicing certain opinions as to the involvement of the McCanns in certain ways is being seen to be libellous.

Is this a subject we should continue to discuss here?

Can we have a moderator ruling here.

I will say that in strict terms of libel people here have expressed "opinions", also the McCanns are now officially suspects. whilst we can argue the semantics of the Portugese definition of "suspect", nevertheless suspects they are.

Opinions are not actionable under both libel and slander law, provided it is stated as such, "in my opinion", "I believe", "what I think may have happened is" - although a direct accusation, may, I would have to admit fall into a grey area.

Though because they have been named as suspects, then people may express an opinion.

As an aside, any civil preceedings would see them being cross examined properly - something that has not yet happened, as far as I can see, in my opinion :shocked:

But perhaps moderators may want to err on the side of caution and remove any direct accusation, even mine if a moderator considers it such a direct accusation, although I believe I have made it clear I am expressing my personal opinions in posts I have made, and stand by all my own comments.

[Sunny_01]

I think that because the Mcanns created the huge media frenzy around Madeline that it is only acceptable that people continue to discuss this case.

Everyone on this site is simply voicing an opinion and we are after all entitled to do that without fear of libel suits.

Yes Sticks Social services will be meeting to discuss the other children, they have to but I would be very suprised if they took huge action at this stage. Being a field social worker in a previous life I certainly would not want to be involved in making the decisions about the Mcanns. Whatver decision they make it will be the wrong one.

I believe that in light of the fact that they are official suspects that some level of supervision is necessary at this stage, but I certainly dont think that they should take the children from them. Thats my thoughts on it though and we all have different ones.

[Jackie]

Originally posted by Sunny_01
I think that because the Mcanns created the huge media frenzy around Madeline that it is only acceptable that people continue to discuss this case.

Everyone on this site is simply voicing an opinion and we are after all entitled to do that without fear of libel suits.

Yes Sticks Social services will be meeting to discuss the other children, they have to but I would be very suprised if they took huge action at this stage. Being a field social worker in a previous life I certainly would not want to be involved in making the decisions about the Mcanns. Whatver decision they make it will be the wrong one.

I believe that in light of the fact that they are official suspects that some level of supervision is necessary at this stage, but I certainly dont think that they should take the children from them. Thats my thoughts on it though and we all have different ones.

yes i agree with you on this one.

[spacebandit]

Any "working class", "council estate" family, with one child missing, and lets be blunt, presumed murdered, where the parents where clearly at fault by leaving them alone while they went out for a drink would have social and child services crawling all over them - and I'd wager the other children would be removed until the affair was sorted out, and then if cleared the parents would have to go court to regain custody.

Yes, I do think they other children should be removed from them until the issue is resolved.

They could be placed in the care of the grand-parents with supervised access for the McCanns.

I don't apologise if this sounds harsh, but it happens very very frequently in this country - and I do not see why this case should be any different.

[spitfire]

Originally posted by spacebandit
Any "working class", "council estate" family, with one child missing, and lets be blunt, presumed murdered, where the parents where clearly at fault by leaving them alone while they went out for a drink would have social and child services crawling all over them - and I'd wager the other children would be removed until the affair was sorted out, and then if cleared the parents would have to go court to regain custody.

Yes, I do think they other children should be removed from them until the issue is resolved.

They could be placed in the care of the grand-parents with supervised access for the McCanns.

I don't apologise if this sounds harsh, but it happens very very frequently in this country - and I do not see why this case should be any different.
Dead on.Absolute nail on head.

[Sticks]

Some disagreement over interpretation of the blood / DNA evidence in the car between the Portuguese police and the British press.

In the Daily star more criticism of the Portuguese police by a service British policie officer over their handling of the investigation.

[Sunny_01]

From Sky News

Madeleine DNA 'Match' To Parents' Car
Updated: 11:14, Tuesday September 11, 2007

Files containing "damning" evidence against the parents of Madeleine McCann will be given to the public prosecutor later, according to Sky sources.

McCanns arrive back in UKThe sources say that scientists have found a full DNA match to Madeleine in the boot of a car hired by Kate and Gerry McCann after their daughter went missing.

Mr and Mrs McCann are at home in Rothley, Leicestershire, after police named them as suspects in their daughter's disappearance on May 3 in the Algarve.

"Police say it is the most damning evidence that has been returned by the tests," Sky's Crime Correspondent Martin Brunt said.

Police spokesman Olegario de Sousa said it was "agreed with the prosecutor" that the file would be handed over early today.

A spokeswoman for the prosecutor in Lisbon said a statement would be issued later regarding the investigation.

However Alipio Ribeiro, head of the investigative Policia Judiciaria, suggested the forensic tests had not been conclusive.

He told Portuguese state broadcaster RTP: "We can't say with certainty whether it was the blood of person A or person B."

The report is expected to include interviews with the McCanns and details of forensic evidence from various sites in the Praia da Luz resort where Madeleine vanished on a family holiday.

"The prosecutor will then have to decide whether he has enough evidence to charge the McCanns or whether the police need to carry out more inquiries or gather more evidence," Mr De Sousa said.

He would not discuss details of the evidence, in accordance with Portugal's secrecy laws in criminal investigations.

Family spokesman Brian Kennedy, who is Madeleine's great uncle, said of the family: "They are holding up extremely well."

[spacebandit]

Originally posted by Sticks
Some disagreement over interpretation of the blood / DNA evidence in the car between the Portuguese police and the British press.

In the Daily star more criticism of the Portuguese police by a service British policie officer over their handling of the investigation.

thats why they came back home - the tame press.

They were going to stay....etc etc, within 24 hours both being made suspects they were on a plane

the British press wants them exonerated regardless of what the actual evidence is, because until they are they can't buy their story.

the press has decided the outcome - I don't know how that sits with you, but in my world the police make a decision about the way forward and the outcome is decided by judge and jury - not a newspaper editor, or a politician whoring for friendly column inches

[bananarama]

Just heard that the police are handing over to a judge for a decision. Not sure what that means as the prosecuters have not had time to read the files yet.......

May not be true but a suggestion is coming out that the DNA could be from body fluids. Body fluids as a result of corpse decay........If that be the truth then things do not look good for the McCann's

[Sticks]

The truth will find you out

[Sticks]

From Sky News (http://news.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,91210-1283521,00.html)



Meanwhile, bodily fluids - not blood - matching Madeleine McCann's DNA have been found in the car hired by her parents, according to sources.

The sample was taken from the boot, where the spare tyre is kept.

It had an 88% match with the missing four-year-old's DNA, sources said.

Police searching the car also found so much of Madeleine's hair that it could not have been transferred from a blanket or clothes.

It must have come directly from her body, sources said.

The information came from senior sources in the investigation who briefed Portuguese journalists.


Yup, looks like her own parents killed her and tried to play us all for fools

If this post goes over the line in terms of libel, let me know and I will remove it.

[Jackie]

I really do hope they are not resposible for the dissapearance of their daughter maddie all along i do not think theyve any connection to this awfull case but if they are guilty i for one will be sending them a letter along with millions of others.

[Sticks]

It seems that more evidence that they killed Madeline keeps coming to light every day. You have to follow the evidence, not what you would wish.

[bananarama]

The devil will still be in the detail. Let's not have a kangaroo court here.....

[bananarama]

DNA alone is may not be enough for a conviction. The police have to fill a lot of holes in their theory.

1. They need a body.

2. They need to prove that the hire car was not used by an abducter 25 days before the Mc'Cannns hired it and coincidentally the Mc'Canns hired the same car.

3. They need to establish why the Mc'Canns felt the need to move a body that had failed to be found after weeks of searching..A bit of a counter productive thing to risk if searches had drawn a blank

4. They need to establish where the body was for 25 days

5 They need to establish how they removed the body while in the glare of the media and police..

This story is far from cut and dried.....

[Sunny_01]

the evidence "appears" to be mounting BUT lets see

Like Bananrama says we need to be careful with this, there are still an awful lot of unanswered questions out there

[Sticks]

The hair evidence has to be one of the modt condemming pieces of evidence.

Apparently, according to media reports, one of the false sightings in Morroco was from a Brit who lives not far from the McCanns.

So maybe that is how they distracted the media attention whilst the moved the body from where the probably hid it.

[Sticks]

Addendum, sniffer dogs found the scent of death on a beach, possibly due to the body being dumped in the sea, according to media reports.

[Sunny_01]

From www.sky.com/news

'Mystery Object' In Madeleine Case
Updated: 09:03, Wednesday September 12, 2007

The public prosecutor in the Madeleine McCann case is asking for emergency powers to seize a "mystery object", Sky News can reveal.

Gerry and Kate McCannIt is not known what or where the object is.

A Portuguese judge is now deciding whether or not to grant the order.

Sky News Crime Correspondent Martin Brunt said: "The prosecution has asked the judge for an emergency order to give them permission to go and seize it."

Under Portuguese law, a judge's permission would only be needed if the object is in a place "normally off-limits to police", said Sky News' Andrew Wilson.

This could include a church or other place of worship, or a solicitor's office.

Police are planning new searches in Praia da Luz, where Madeleine went missing, including digging around the village church of Nossa Senhora da Luz, according to Portuguese newspapers.


The church in Praia da LuzPolice spokesman Chief Inspector Olegario Sousa refused to confirm or deny the reports.

It is known Kate and Gerry McCann, both 39-year-old doctors, were given a key to the church so they could go and pray for their daughter any time they wanted.

There is no sign yet of any searches being carried out at the church, which still has yellow and green Madeleine ribbons on the pews and altar.

Sky News Online's Kate Sullivan, who flew back from Portugal with the McCanns, said: "It's a small, well-tended church just up from the beach.

"But around the back there's a fenced-off building site area. The ground's been dug up and workmen are laying foundations."


Madeleine vanished on May 3The judge is also sifting through a 1,000-page dossier as Madeleine's parents face an agonising wait to learn if they will be charged over her disappearance.

He has 10 days to consider its contents.

It is not known if prosecutor Jose Cunha de Magalhaes e Meneses is recommending charging Kate and Gerry McCann over their daughter's disappearance.

It is more likely he wants to carry out fresh searches, conduct more interviews, or impose stricter bail conditions.

Mr and Mrs McCann were declared "arguidos", or formal suspects, in the case during police questioning in Portimao last Friday.

They flew out of the country to their home in Rothley, Leicestershire, two days later.

Mr McCann's sister, Philomena McCann, said the handing of the files to the judge changes nothing as far as her family is concerned.

"That was expected - it doesn't change a thing," she said. "We will have to wait and see if they are bringing charges or not."

[Amy]

Originally posted by jackie46
I really do hope they are not resposible for the dissapearance of their daughter maddie all along i do not think theyve any connection to this awfull case but if they are guilty i for one will be sending them a letter along with millions of others.

Many on here dislike me and think I'm a madam... and this will prove to those fans more reason to hate me.. but I've always said that it could have been the parents.

We skirt around the issue that they actually left these kids alone, no matter how far away or how sorry they may feel for leaving them ... they left not one but THREE kids alone. What is more shocking, to me, is that there was babysitting facility on site! Why not use that then?

I always say this.. would you leave your kids on their own at such a young age? No matter how far you are away from them? How do you know they are not killing themselves with things around the apartment?

I could sit for hours and give reasons to why I have always thought they could have done it. I could also sit and give reasons to why i think, in some respects, they may well not.

[Sunny_01]

No Amy you are only saying what many of us said quite forcefully in the early days. I also questioned why they would leave their children unattended, I know I certainly wouldnt.

I have taken family holidays abroad for many years and not once have I left my children in the hotel room while I swan off and enjoy a meal in peace.

There is no reason why people should not suspect them, the evidence is piling up. My hubby has suspected them from very early in the case, he could not understand how they would choose to fly off to meet the pope leaving 2 young children who had already lost their big sister and go meet important people. He felt they have always been hard faced about it and lacking in emotion.

So dont think people are going to jump on you, all you have done is said what many people are already thinking.

[Sunny_01]

Latest on www.sky.com/news

'We Won't Spend Madeleine Cash'
Updated: 12:10, Wednesday September 12, 2007

Kate and Gerry McCann say they will not use cash from the Find Madeleine campaign to fund their legal defence.

Madeleine fund raised over £1mThe news came as trustees of the fund - which has raised more than £1m - were due to hold a special meeting this afternoon.

They will decide whether the money can be used for the couple's legal bills.

The cash was pledged to help find the missing four-year-old, and there are legal questions over whether it can be used to help the parents.

The couple have appointed lawyers after being named as suspects in Madeleine's disappearance in Portugal on May 3.

The Missing Madeleine website says one of the objectives of the fund is to "provide support, including financial assistance, to Madeleine's family."

Esther McVey, a director of the Madeleine Fund, confirmed she and the other five directors are meeting this afternoon.

"What we are discussing is what does 'support' mean," she explained. "This is the only thing on the agenda and this is a special meeting."

[Sunny_01]

I cant believe that they even considered using public money to pay for their defence and that the trustees are meeting to discuss this.

I think that everyone who donated to this trust could ask for the return of their money if it is going to be used in this way.

[gracie24]

It's like when they were going to sue one of the Portuguese papers, the only place they could have got the money from for that was the funds that have been raised.

Surely if they're charged with the murder or accidental murder they should be charged for fraud too for using the public's money for different things.

[Sunny_01]

I agree gracie, but the good thing is according to a statement from a family member they have no plans to use any trust money to fund their defence.

[~Kizwiz~]

I should hope not....... people didnt give money to the cause so they could sue a paper..... thats fraud

[bananarama]

Originally posted by Sticks
The hair evidence has to be one of the modt condemming pieces of evidence.

Apparently, according to media reports, one of the false sightings in Morroco was from a Brit who lives not far from the McCanns.

So maybe that is how they distracted the media attention whilst the moved the body from where the probably hid it.


I doubt it. Hair can come from a secondary source. It also needs to have the roots. Blood or fluids however would be condemming. Assuming it is not as a result of the abductor hiring the car before the Mc'Canns. Prosecuters need to be able to prove that could not be the case.

Haven't seen it mentioned yet on here but the mystery object the portuguese police want is Kate Mc'Canns diary....

[gracie24]

Sky news: Fund will not pay McCann's legal defence costs

[bananarama]

They have decided not to but could legally do so if they wished. Other donations are being offered for the Mc'Canns legal expenses but that would require a seperate fund.

It was stated that at no time have the Mc'Canns asked for legal funding from existing donations.....

[gracie24]

They did say that if the funds were used for the legal defence costs, the McCanns would have to pay what money was used back if they were found guilty.

[Sunny_01]

British Police Involved In Madeleine Case
Updated: 22:31, Wednesday September 12, 2007

British police are reportedly preparing to seize items belonging to Kate and Gerry McCann, Sky's Crime Correspondent Martin Brunt has learned.

Diary thought to hold clues Brunt said the Portuguese judge considering evidence in the case of their missing daughter Madeleine had signed a warrant giving British detectives the right to take a number of items from the couple.

These included Mr McCann's laptop computer and various correspondence, he added, saying that Leicestershire Police officers were likely to attempt to seize the items tomorrow.

Portuguese prosecutors are reported to have asked the judge to sign the warrant because they believe the items could hold vital clues to the disappearance of four-year-old Madeleine.

They are already believed to have a copy of Mrs McCann's private diary after asking the judge to sign a similar order.

Sky's Andrew Wilson said he understood that Judge Pedro Miguel dos Anjos Frias had responded to the prosecutors' request to seize Mrs McCann's diary and that "at least a copy" was now in their hands.

The McCanns' spokesman David Hughes earlier refused to comment on the diary as he left the family house in Rothley, Leicestershire.

He faced the media circus waiting outside the couple's home shortly after the family returned from a trip to a nearby park.

Earlier, it was reported the police wanted to confiscate Madeleine's toys, including her favourite Cuddle Cat.

Mr McCann's sister, Philomena McCann, said the possibility that police might seize the toy was a "disgrace".

"It would be extremely distressing for Kate because she has seen it as a symbol of her daughter since she went missing," she added.

She went on: "Why on earth do they ask for the toys now? Why didn't they think of this before?"

The judge is also sifting through a 4,000-page police dossier as Madeleine's parents face an agonising wait to learn if they will be charged over her disappearance.

He has 10 days to consider the contents - said to be stored in 10 lever arch files.

It is not known if prosecutors are recommending charging the McCanns over their daughter's disappearance.

Lawyers in Portugal say it is more likely he wants to carry out fresh searches, conduct more interviews, or impose stricter bail conditions.

According to Portuguese newspapers police on the case officers are planning new searches in Praia da Luz, from where Madeleine went missing on May 3.

Mr and Mrs McCann were declared "arguidos", or formal suspects, in the case during police questioning in Portimao last Friday.

They flew out of the country to their home in Rothley, Leicestershire, two days later.

[Sticks]

I was wondering if the company that hosts the Madeline website should pull it, in light of the fact that the McCanns are being investigated for killing their daughter and that the website might be an elaborate deception.

Anyone know who does the hosting?

Also Pay Pal should be informed that they might be involved in obtaining money by false pretences. That account should at least be suspended.

The Daily Star's headline "Maddies Toy will Nail Killer" show that the red tops are finally cottoning on that they may have been duped by the McCanns all this time.

Not all of us have been fooled.

[Sticks]

From the Sun (http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2005320001-2007420680,00.html)

Cops think Kate killed Maddie

From JULIE MOULT
in Praia da Luz
September 13, 2007

COPS in Portugal are confident they have a watertight case against Kate and Gerry McCann to prove their involvement in Maddie’s death.

But what is in the 1,000-page dossier handed to a judge that makes them so convinced?

Here we examine the evidence — some of it ridiculously far-fetched.

Cops find it difficult to understand why Kate and Gerry left their three children alone in an apartment to join friends for dinner.

The tapas restaurant is not within earshot or clear sight of where they sat with pals.

And they chose not to take advantage of a free baby-sitting service offered by respected holiday company Mark Warner, explaining they did not want to leave the youngsters with a stranger.

But perhaps, police believe, Maddie may have already died by this stage.

They allege Kate and Gerry concocted an incredible plan which meant they were prepared to accept criticism for neglecting their kids by leaving them alone, in order for an “abduction” to take place.

Cops are of the opinion there was an accident in their apartment some time after Maddie was last seen alive.

Their theory is that Kate either slapped Maddie and she banged her head and died, or she had a reaction to sedatives dispensed by her GP mum to help her sleep — or even took an overdose of prescription medication left lying around the apartment.

Either way, cops suspect panic set in when they realised they could not revive her.

They say the McCanns were fearful of going to prison in a foreign country, having their other children taken away and losing their livelihoods.

So the parents are said to have hatched the unlikely plan to cover up her death and move the body, possibly with the help of others.

Details of the hour or so they spent dining with their friends are hazy and police say they have never been fully established.


But as far as can be confirmed by the police, Gerry checked on the children at 9.05pm. Next friend Matthew Oldfield left the table at 9.30pm to check on the kids.

Crucially, instead of going into the bedroom Maddie was sharing with two-year-old twins Sean and Amelie, he just listened at the door.

Fifteen minutes later, another friend Jane Tanner, saw a man walking away from the Ocean Club resort carrying a child in pyjamas. The clothing matched those worn by Maddie. Nobody else has come forward to say they too had seen this person.

For weeks, the McCanns enjoyed a close relationship with the police. But by the beginning of August the relationship turned frosty.

That coincides with the time when police began to tap the phone calls and emails between Kate, Gerry and their pals.

Detectives believe they picked up evidence from the surveillance pointing to the McCanns knowing that Maddie was dead.

Around the same time, UK cops brought in forensic teams and sniffer dogs which located areas of blood and bodily fluid in both the apartment and the Renault Scenic rented 25 days after Madeleine went missing.

A few days after reports on the samples came back, Kate and Gerry were quizzed and named as suspects.

Cops say Madeleine’s blood, bodily fluid, and a mass of blonde hair was found in the boot.

They claim there is too much material for it simply to be explained away as having rubbed off on the car from Madeleine’s belongings.

Toxicology reports are also described as significant. This could indicate whether Maddie was sedated — which Kate and Gerry deny.

If police can prove the presence of a sedative, they can also prove the McCanns have lied.

[Sticks]

Latest from the BBC (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6992372.stm)


The inventor of DNA fingerprinting has offered to act as an expert witness in the Madeleine McCann case.
Sir Alec Jeffreys said DNA matches alone did not establish guilt and all Madeleine's genetic characters would be found in at least one family member.

Gerry and Kate McCann, suspects in their daughter's disappearance, are considering commissioning independent tests on a Portuguese hire car.

But the Madeleine's Fund board will not allow money to go on legal expenses.

It has been reported that DNA evidence with a 100% match to Madeleine was found in the car, but this has been played down by Portuguese police.

In an exclusive interview with the BBC's Newsnight programme, Sir Alec said there could be a potential problem in assigning a profile to Madeleine given that all other members of her family would have been in the car.

"DNA testing seeks to establish whether DNA sample A from a crime scene, came or did not come from individual B," he said.

"So if you get a match there's very strong evidence that it did come from B.

"It is then up to investigators, the courts and all the rest of it to work out whether that connection is relevant or not.

"DNA doesn't have the words innocence or guilt in it - that is a legal concept. What it seeks to establish is connections and identifications."

Earlier John McCann said his brother Gerry thought the Portuguese police had "gone up a cul-de-sac".

He told BBC's The One Show that Gerry had said they had "lost track" of what they were doing and urged the police to be straight with them.

"If they have got something that suggests Madeleine really is dead then for goodness sake tell the family who have the strongest feeling for this."

He added that had the police done a better job early on in the investigation then Gerry and Kate would not be suspects now.


Asked if he doubted their innocence at all, he said: "If you know the people, and you look at the whole situation, you look at it and think this is ridiculous."

Both parents deny vehemently any involvement in their four-year-old daughter's disappearance.

The McCann family were on holiday at a resort in Praia da Luz in the Algarve when they reported Madeleine missing from their apartment on 3 May.

They returned to their home in Rothley in Leicestershire at the weekend and are currently waiting for a judge to decide if they face charges.

It is understood the couple are planning their own forensic tests amid suspicion about claims made by detectives in interviews with Kate McCann.

We stress that Gerry and Kate have not asked for these costs to be paid

The McCanns appointed lawyers in Portugal and Britain after being named as formal suspects - but they will not be paid out of money donated by well-wishers.

A statement made by Esther McVey from the board of Madeleine's Fund said payment of legal defence costs would be legally permissible so long as they were repaid in the event of a guilty conviction.

However, she said the fund's directors recognised the spirit in which the generous donations were given and decided not to pay for the McCanns' legal costs.

"We stress that Gerry and Kate have not asked for these costs to be paid," she said.

So far donations totalling £1,036,104.17 have been received for Madeleine's Fund: Leaving No Stone Unturned, according to the official campaign website.

[Sunny_01]

I just wonder why the Portugese police did not do any of this in the early days. Why wouldnt you consider the parents as suspects at the beginning? if it were my child I would expect to be closely asked about what had happened and expect a full DNA testing of the room, toys etc...

[gracie24]

Didn't Kate wash the toy anyways shortly after Madeline went missing? Surely it really isn't of any evidence towards to police.

Notice how The Sun say its 4,000 page dossier and someone else says it's 1,000 - quite a big difference!

I think having Gerry's laptop will conclude to him being questioned again if not leading to anything more serious.

[Sunny_01]

washing the toy will not eliminate DNA or blood etc... if they have soaked into the toy.

I think that we will never know the full facts of the Portugese police unless they make it public, everything is speculation.

[sexy_leigh]

the police are only questioning the parents because they have nothing else to go on, because why would they all of a sudden want to question them NOW as they couldv'e done it at the beginning of the investigation!

[Sunny_01]

They have been watching and investigating the Mcanns for a long while as would be the case in any missing child case, it just appears that they now have "alleged" evidence to say they "may" have been involved.

If they did not investigate the parents they would be failing in their jobs, like Sticks pointed out in an earlier post statistically a huge number of children die at the hands of a family member. They can not be excluded from this investigation, they should never have been simply because they are her parents.

[Sticks]

Originally posted by gracie24
I think having Gerry's laptop will conclude to him being questioned again if not leading to anything more serious.

At least it will stop him putting more propaganda on that website of his

[bananarama]

Just heard the Mc'Canns have met social services to discuss the twins.....

Unless the portuguese police are holding some ace cards up their sleeve the evidence thus far is weak and full of holes.

Seems the latest requests for diary and laptop are just clutching at straws. Trying to make a circumstantial case to back up a weak forensic case.

The latest I heard is that they have a maximum of 88% DNA match. They still do not confirm what the DNA is from.

Another incompetent move by the portuguese police letting them out of the country before they had obtained relavent material property from the Mc'Canns. How can one trust anything such a buch of amateurs come up with..Guilty or inoccent..

[Sticks]

From what I have read elsewhere people are now coming around the the belief that the McCanns are guilty of killing their own daughter. On one site it is reported that two rich donors that were helping them financially have now washed their hands of them.

The Portuguese press has also turned against them and is towing the official line of the Portuguese police, backed up by British sniffer dogs and Britsh forewnsic evidence.

The wheels are finally coming off of the McCann band waggon and public opinion is tipping in favour of the Portuguese authorities.

[Jackie]

Yeah maybe but i say innocent till proven guilty.

[bananarama]

Originally posted by Sticks
From what I have read elsewhere people are now coming around the the belief that the McCanns are guilty of killing their own daughter. On one site it is reported that two rich donors that were helping them financially have now washed their hands of them.

The Portuguese press has also turned against them and is towing the official line of the Portuguese police, backed up by British sniffer dogs and Britsh forewnsic evidence.

The wheels are finally coming off of the McCann band waggon and public opinion is tipping in favour of the Portuguese authorities.


Well I heard on Sky news that new doners are coming forward to help the Mc'Canns with defence costs.

Like everone else I don't know if they are guilty or not. What we see with the press and public reaction is typical bandwagon mind sets that human nature is well known for.......

Thus far the reality is a lot of the so called evidence is speculation built on private decisions and then reported as if it were factual. We only have snips of details of which are often later contradicted or changed in severity.

The devil is still to be found in the detail. Detail thus far we have none that is reliable...

[bananarama]

It has been reported that the chief investigator of the Mc'Canns enquiry is being investigated himself for beating up a Potuguese woman to try and get a confession regarding another crime......

Also reported that Richard Branson is donating £100,000 to the Mc'Canns legal defence fund. Also a hint of some portuguese press back tracking on the evidence supposedly against the Mc'Canns.

[Sticks]

Originally posted by bananarama
It has been reported that the chief investigator of the Mc'Canns enquiry is being investigated himself for beating up a Potuguese woman to try and get a confession regarding another crime......


I know an ex policeman who is not impressed by this claim. Criminals always try and put in a complaint to prevent an officer from finding the truth. Remember John Stalker and what happened when he was conducting the "shoot to kill" policy in Ulster?.

This allegation is being made by the husband of of someone convicted of first degree murder to try and get her off. Take this one with a massive sack of salt.

[Kate..]

i find it hard to beleive that the parents would kill their own daughter and then bring all the police into it.... they would know the risk of being caught

my bet is that it was one of the parents.... i would put my money on the dad but the whole issue is a :shrug::shrug::shrug:

[Sunny_01]

Have McCann Police Gone Out On A Limb?
Updated: 09:51, Tuesday September 18, 2007

Portuguese police may have "gone out on a limb" by accusing Madeleine McCann's parents over her alleged death, Portuguese newspapers are speculating.

Kate McCann and Portuguese policeSky News crime correspondent Martin Brunt said media in the country where the four-year-old disappeared has started questioning the investigation against Kate and Gerry McCann.

Reporting from Portimao, Brunt said: "(Papers) have been suggesting the Portuguese police have gone out on a limb by making the accusations they have by suggesting the McCanns are involved.

"There are suggestions, hint perhaps, in Portuguese media that, if the Portuguese police are wrong, they are going to be made to look very foolish."

The tide of suspicion against the parents appears to be turning after a judge refused to order Mrs McCann to return to Portugal for questioning.

The Portuguese press had said Madeleine's mother could be called back to the country in the next few days.


Madeleine vanished on May 3But the judge in the case, Pedro Daniel dos Anjos Frias, has now rejected the prosecutors' request, according to a report in the Correio Da Manha newspaper.

Instead, the couple may be interviewed again this week by British police acting on behalf of the Portuguese authorities.

But a source close to the family said no formal request had been made.

The couple's lawyers issued a statement saying they had received no request for new questioning.

But a letter of appeal is expected to be sent to Britain, setting out the new questions Portuguese detectives want to ask the couple.

Portuguese officers are understood to be keen to sit in on any interviews in the UK as observers.

However, an unnamed source told the Correio Da Manha there was only a "very low" probability this would happen.

It is now 138 days since Madeleine went missing from her family's holiday apartment in the Algarve resort of Praia da Luz.

Mr and Mrs McCann, both 39, returned to their home in Rothley, Leicestershire, nine days ago.

[gracie24]

It's still annoying me that the fact that they left Madeline and the twins alone whilst they went out for a meal is being completely ignored!!

People who were at the restaurant said that many people didn't leave the table once they got there and none of the stories told by Gerry and another family friend of part of the family about the night Madeline actually went missing match up.

Did anybody watch the Tonight programme about this last night?

[bananarama]

Sadly many parents if not all parents at some time in their lives take risks with the safety of their children. As I speak a neighbours 5 year old girl is roaming about out of sight of her mother.

I agree it was foolish of the Mc'Canns if that is what happened. That in itself does not mean they killed their daughter. I didn't see the show last night so cannot comment on it. However so much information has been denied us by the portuguese police that all speculation is just that speculation and not secure knowledge.


The fact the portuguese police keep re-interviewing the same people after several weeks have elapsed is asking for discrepencies to manifest. Peoples memories of facts fade with time so each re-interview after weeks have elapsed might well result in a slightly different story due to the fact fresh memories are the only reliable memories.

If a TV program has interviewed people weeks after the event than such interviews cannot be reliable for the reasons mentioned above.....

[Sunny_01]

Originally posted by gracie24
It's still annoying me that the fact that they left Madeline and the twins alone whilst they went out for a meal is being completely ignored!!

People who were at the restaurant said that many people didn't leave the table once they got there and none of the stories told by Gerry and another family friend of part of the family about the night Madeline actually went missing match up.

Did anybody watch the Tonight programme about this last night?

Gracie you echo what many of us have said from day one. It just beggars belief they would leave 3 such small children alone. I still wonder what the press etc.. would have reacted like had it been a single parent that had left their children, I bet they would have been villified from day one.

I didnt see that last night but bet it was really interesting.

[gracie24]

I just hope that that isn't ignored, I will be so annoyed if something isn't done about it.

The programme was quite interesting, it was just giving the 'pros and cons' if you can call it that about the evidence that has come forward which would lead to the McCanns being charged with Madeline's murder.

[Sunny_01]

I have said it before and I have to say again, this is one time in my life that I want my gut to be wrong. I dont want them to have been involved in any way, I want them to be the genuine parents who they appear to be in front of the tv cameras.

Also I doubt they will ever forgive themselves for leaving the children so no law or court could punish them more than I imagine they are punishing themselves.

[Jackie]

Right from the start its never once crossed my mind that the McCanns are involved in this terrible tragically this case is becoming more tainted as the days go by as in todays news it is said"Nappies worn by the twins could clear the parents of any suspicion over lost daughter madeleine it was revealed last night.

[lemon-squeezy]

I live 5 miles from rothley and know it well, even I am inclined to believe the portugese police rather than the Mccans......

[Foebane100]

I wonder what the sanctimonious self-righteous people will say when her mother is found innocent due to lack of evidence. All the evidence seems circumstantial.

As for the family using the fund for their defence they have never said they would and I’ve seen the father say twice they had no intention of using that money for their legal bills. Only the press seems to be saying that is what they are doing.

[spacebandit]

Originally posted by Foebane100
I wonder what the sanctimonious self-righteous people will say when her mother is found innocent due to lack of evidence. All the evidence seems circumstantial.

As for the family using the fund for their defence they have never said they would and I’ve seen the father say twice they had no intention of using that money for their legal bills. Only the press seems to be saying that is what they are doing.

I neither consider myself sacntimonious or self righteous

If they are innocent, as I have said previously I will be glad as that is an even more terrible way for a child to die, at the hands of its parents.

Nevertheless their story remains full of holes.

I also do not think it either sanctimonius or self righteous to expect them to be treated the same as other people when they abandon their child so they can go out gladhanding and something bad happens to their child.

The ordinary blue collar couple of the housing estates would have their other children in care by now and they would have supervised access [if they were lucky], and to get them back they would have to go to court for custody.

One rule for the white collar, one rule for the blue collar and especially the low income groups.

As for using the monies for legal bills in a case where someone is charged with a crime against the very child the fund was set up to help find - you may find that if they did that, someone who donated could have a case against the company - for the return of their monies.

Note that it is a company and not a charity

[Sticks]

In the UK press they are saying how they will take a lie detector test. Everyone in the intelligence and law enforcement industry knows that they can be beaten, and a pair of doctors could in theory work out how to do this.

Passing a lie detector test proves only that they can pass a lie detector test. It does not mean they were being truthful. As I mentioned above, they can be beaten and agents are trained to do so.

It definitely looks like the net is closing in on them, especially as they are now looking at a pet crematorium as the most likely place the body was disposed of.

Who do you trust, the proper police authorities backed by the finest British forensics, or a pair of suspected child killers?

[Red Moon]

MADDIE BODY BURNED

POLICE hunting Madeleine’s body yesterday swooped on a pet crematorium near where she vanished.

Owner Eef Hoos, 61, revealed he was visited by an English-speaking couple shortly after the four-year-old disappeared.

They asked him to cremate their dead dog in a big black bin bag in his furnace 20 miles from the resort of Praia da Luz.

He grew suspicious because the couple did not appear upset at the death of the pet or ask for the ashes – which he scattered himself.

Hoos – who served eight years in jail for blowing up a police station in Holland – said detectives asked him if it was possible there had been a child in the bag dropped off by the English-speaking couple.

But he said he checked inside and found the corpse of a labrador.

But police still wanted to inspect his rusty backyard incinerator.

Yesterday two men in dark glasses arrived in an unmarked car at his home and spent 20 minutes inside before leaving with documents about animal cremations. He said: “They asked me three times if I had spoken to the parents. I said as far as I was aware I had not spoken to the parents.”

Police are mapping out a number of locations where they believe Madeleine’s body could have been dumped.

Mobile phone tracking experts are using satellite technology to draw up a list of sites visited by the McCanns since they rented the hire car Madeleine’s DNA was found in.

Further searches are planned over the next few days.
source:Daily Star (http://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/view/15988/Maddie-body-burned/)

[KissyLittleMissy2]

This investigation is getting beyond a joke. Personally I think that Madeline is indeed dead by now. Apologies to anyone who wishes to believe that she is still alive - but for anyone silly enough to have her in thier possession, is taking a risk too far. It would be better for them to end her life due to the risks of ever getting caught. That is my opinion and a sad one at that, as I would love for her to reappear alive - but never ever will.

The parents of Madeline Mcann must be going through hell. I mean, the police have questioned them so much and thier name has been on the authorities minds as murderers

[Sunny_01]

I agree it is more than liekly that Madeline is now dead, any shred of hope will have gone when the media roller coaster took over. If she had been taken by someone surely by now they will have panicked and killed the poor wee lamb.

I would love them to find this little girl now so that if she is dead she can be given a little dignity and respect and recieve a full funeral rather than being dumped.

[Sticks]

I am more inclined to believe she died on the first night, exactly the way the Portuguese police are saying, since they are more credible

[bananarama]

Originally posted by Sticks
I am more inclined to believe she died on the first night, exactly the way the Portuguese police are saying, since they are more credible

I fail to see how the Portuguese police can be regarded remotely credible.

The same police that interview a suspect then allow the suspect to colude with the next suspect before the next interview.

The same police who refused to give a description of what the child was wearing untill days had past and public memories had faded.

The same police who do incomplete searches first time round..

The same police who keep reinterviewing and reinterviewing weeks apart when memories have faded and fact will inevitably become didstorted.

The same police who say they believe in secrecy about the investigation details then go on to leak convenient pieces of information for the press to feed off with their usual sensationalism and lies.

Portuguese propaganda will almost certainly destroy the possibility of a conviction sticking because of a one sided mass of police accusations which will make some people pre judge a verdict and make a fair trial impossible.

Regardless of if the Mac'Canns are guilty or not the bungling almost brain dead portuguese police have no credibility what so ever....

If you throw balls at a coconut often enough you will by chance get a hit. That sums up the credibilty of the Portuguese police...

[bananarama]

Originally posted by Sticks
I am more inclined to believe she died on the first night, exactly the way the Portuguese police are saying, since they are more credible

I fail to see how the Portuguese police can be regarded remotely credible.

The same police that interview a suspect then allow the suspect to colude with the next suspect before the next interview.

The same police who refused to give a description of what the child was wearing untill days had past and public memories had faded.

The same police who do incomplete searches first time round..

The same police who keep reinterviewing and reinterviewing weeks apart when memories have faded and fact will inevitably become didstorted.

The same police who say they believe in secrecy about the investigation details then go on to leak convenient pieces of information for the press to feed off with their usual sensationalism and lies.

Portuguese propaganda will almost certainly destroy the possibility of a conviction sticking because of a one sided mass of police accusations which will make some people pre judge a verdict and make a fair trial impossible.

Regardless of if the Mac'Canns are guilty or not the bungling almost brain dead portuguese police have no credibility what so ever....

If you throw balls at a coconut often enough you will by chance get a hit. That sums up the credibilty of the Portuguese police...

[Sticks]

The net is closing in on the McCanns as the killers (http://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/view/16068/Seven-hours-to-kill-Maddy/)

There is no independent corroboration of any sighting of Madeline for a seven hour window.

The wheels are coming off of the McCann band wagon as their so called theories become more outlandish by the day.

I read somewhere that only 20% believe they are innocent.

The Portuguese police, in association with the best of British forensics and police dogs have the most likely scenario, that the McCanns killed their own daughter and hid the body.

[Amy21]

I read in the Daily Express newspaper yesterday that the McCanns are going to take a lie detector test to clear their names of not having anything to do with Madeleine's disappearance. I think this is good of them to do as I dont believe they did it at all. They are innocent people!!!! who have been a victim of crime by whoever has took Madeleine. I hope their names are cleared and people start supporting them again instead of everyone accusing them of doing something to Madeleine when they havent at all.

[Sticks]

Originally posted by Amy21
I read in the Daily Express newspaper yesterday that the McCanns are going to take a lie detector test to clear their names of not having anything to do with Madeleine's disappearance. I think this is good of them to do as I dont believe they did it at all. They are innocent people!!!! who have been a victim of crime by whoever has took Madeleine. I hope their names are cleared and people start supporting them again instead of everyone accusing them of doing something to Madeleine when they havent at all.

If you look at my previous post


In the UK press they are saying how they will take a lie detector test. Everyone in the intelligence and law enforcement industry knows that they can be beaten, and a pair of doctors could in theory work out how to do this.

Passing a lie detector test proves only that they can pass a lie detector test. It does not mean they were being truthful. As I mentioned above, they can be beaten and agents are trained to do so.


The quote about the lie detector is yet another smoke screen from the McCann spin machine. (Does anyone seriously find their ever changing account credible?)

[Sunny_01]

I think we are seriously running the risk here of finding the McCanns guilty without trial.

We all have our thoughts on the matter, we all have questions in our minds but need to remember that at the heart of all this a little girl is still missing.

We all know the press are not reliable sources of information, we also know that the Portugese police have bumbled through this investigation and made errors at every turn, yes the McCanns left their children, yes they dont act in a way that most parents would act, but does all of that make them guilty?

I have questioned their actions at every turn like a lot of others but now believe that we may never know the truth, I choose to hope they are not inolved in this, I have tried to stop myself from out and out accusing them, my doubts will possibly be there until otherwise disproved but I want my doubts to be wrong because the thought of accepting that the McCanns are responsible is just not a palatable thought for me.

[spacebandit]

Originally posted by Amy21
I read in the Daily Express newspaper yesterday that the McCanns are going to take a lie detector test to clear their names of not having anything to do with Madeleine's disappearance. I think this is good of them to do as I dont believe they did it at all. They are innocent people!!!! who have been a victim of crime by whoever has took Madeleine. I hope their names are cleared and people start supporting them again instead of everyone accusing them of doing something to Madeleine when they havent at all.

Lie detector tests are not admissible in court.

I usually find that as reports of unsolved murders stretch on and on, the prime suspects often resort to the PR spin stactic of the lie detector test as the be and end all of the case.

It is far from that

Their story changes with the wind

[Sunny_01]

From Sky news

Madeleine: Murat 'Set To Be Cleared'
Updated: 14:21, Saturday September 22, 2007

The first person to be named an official suspect in the Madeleine McCann inquiry is to be cleared, according to reports in Portugal.
Robert Murat has always vehemently denied involvement in the four-year-old's disappearance.
The Briton's home has been searched and he has twice been questioned by police, who named him as their first "arguido" - or official suspect.

But a report in the weekly newspaper Sol reported that Murat had now been told that police have no case against him.

However, the 33-year-old is to remain an arguido until the investigation is complete to avoid compromising other ongoing inquiries, the newspaper said.

Murat - who lives with his mother in a villa less than 100 yards from the apartment from which Madeleine went missing - has not commented publicly on the speculation.

Police searched his house and garden using specialist sniffer dogs after suspicions were aroused over his interest in the case.

Murat, whose father is Portuguese, had earlier offered his services as a translator to police working on the case and became a familiar sight around the crime scene in the days after Madeleine's disappearance.

A British newspaper reporter expressed her concerns to police, who indicated that there were already interested in Murat.

After questioning the property consultant for several hours at their local headquarters in the town of Portimao, Portugal's Policia Judiciaria declared him an official suspect.

Madeleine has not been seen since she disappeared from her family's holiday apartment in Praia da Luz.

Her parents Kate and Gerry have also been named formal suspects in the case.

They too have insisted they played no part in Madeleine's disappearance and have said they want the focus to return to finding their daughter.

[Sunny_01]

From sky news

Police Chief Attacks Kate And Gerry
Updated: 22:55, Friday September 21, 2007

Kate and Gerry McCann have hindered the investigation into their daughter's disappearance, says the man in charge of the Portuguese police federation.

McCanns criticisedCarlos Anjos, head of Asfic, said future interrogation of the couple was effectively pointless because they would, as is their right, refuse to speak.

And he warned the investigation into Madeleine, who was three when she was reported missing, could end up taking a "very long time".

A spokesman for the McCanns dismissed claims they were using their right to silence to withhold co-operation with police.

Mr Anjos said a "difficult and complex case" was "made worse by [the parent's] attitude".

He also said Kate and Gerry had told the portuguese police they would be making no further statements towards the investigation.

Claims that the McCanns were hampering the Portuguese police's search for Madeleine were dismissed by the appointed spokesman for the couple, Clarence Mitchell.

Mr Mitchell said: "We are not prepared to comment on Mr Anjos's remarks but Kate and Gerry have always said they are willing to return to Portugal at any time to help the police with their investigations."

Mr Anjos also said police progress remained slow.

"This case is here for a long time because there is no apparent motive and it will be very difficult to prove if it was homicide if Madeleine's body is not found," he said.

Detectives in the Algarve are reportedly working on the theory that Kate McCann may have accidentally killed Madeleine and relied on her husband, Gerry, to help cover it up.

[bananarama]

If the bungling Portuguese police were wrong about Murat they could just as easily be wrong about the Mc'Canns...Seems to me they make up theories with no facts to back them up. Just like the press really.

[bananarama]

Originally posted by Sticks
Originally posted by Amy21
I read in the Daily Express newspaper yesterday that the McCanns are going to take a lie detector test to clear their names of not having anything to do with Madeleine's disappearance. I think this is good of them to do as I dont believe they did it at all. They are innocent people!!!! who have been a victim of crime by whoever has took Madeleine. I hope their names are cleared and people start supporting them again instead of everyone accusing them of doing something to Madeleine when they havent at all.

If you look at my previous post


In the UK press they are saying how they will take a lie detector test. Everyone in the intelligence and law enforcement industry knows that they can be beaten, and a pair of doctors could in theory work out how to do this.

Passing a lie detector test proves only that they can pass a lie detector test. It does not mean they were being truthful. As I mentioned above, they can be beaten and agents are trained to do so.


The quote about the lie detector is yet another smoke screen from the McCann spin machine. (Does anyone seriously find their ever changing account credible?)


Does anyone ever find the ever changing account of the police credible....All the holes in their wild theories and not one hole has been filled.

As things are it's a one sided public trial. Suggestions by the police with no verifiable facts. The Mc'Canns gagged as they are not allowed to talk about their interviews with the police but the police can go on leaking as much mud as they like.

A jury in a trial considers all facts from both sides before assuming guilt or not....Should not we do the same!!!

[Sticks]

Portuguese police, assisted by the finest British forensics.

Are you questioning the integrity of the British forensic service who placed Madeline's lifeless corpse in a hire car that they acquired one month after this alleged abduction.

Who is more credible, British Forensics, backing up the proper police authorities in Portugal or a couple who are suspected of killing their own daughter.

[Sunny_01]

Originally posted by Sticks
Portuguese police, assisted by the finest British forensics.

Are you questioning the integrity of the British forensic service who placed Madeline's lifeless corpse in a hire car that they acquired one month after this alleged abduction.

Who is more credible, British Forensics, backing up the proper police authorities in Portugal or a couple who are suspected of killing their own daughter.

British forensics - excellent had they been involved from day 1 but they were brought in very late and only have the word of the Portugese police about where things were found etc..

The forensics certainly did NOT place Madelines corpse in the car, the suggested that her DNA was found in the car, now that could have been transferred from her belongings which were transported in the car. Also we only have the word of the press with information leaked from the Portugese police that Madelines body was in the car SO we are back to the question of who is more credible. Well for me the McCanns are more credible than the Portugese police who have handled this case terribly from day one.

I have always had suspicions about the McCanns and the way they behave and have behaved BUT that certainly doesnt make them guilty of killing their daughter, they are as you say suspects but not the only ones in a poorly investigated case.

[Amy21]

Sticks you cant tamper with a lie detector machine to make it go the way you want it to go. You just do the test and if its right its right if its wrong its wrong so really I dont see any true source about that short article about it being a smoke screen for the McCanns to get past easily. I know in my opinion they didnt kill Madeleine and that she has been taken by some sicko who is doing anything to her while her parents are suffering with no clue where she is and if she is still alive.

[spacebandit]

Originally posted by Amy21
Sticks you cant tamper with a lie detector machine to make it go the way you want it to go.

Lie detectors can be beaten - this is not exactly a secret.

Polygraphy is not a science, it is an interrogation technique, inadmissable in court, and once you know how a lie detector actually works - it is comparatively easy to "beat" one.

[Sunny_01]

Originally posted by Amy21
Sticks you cant tamper with a lie detector machine to make it go the way you want it to go. You just do the test and if its right its right if its wrong its wrong so really I dont see any true source about that short article about it being a smoke screen for the McCanns to get past easily. I know in my opinion they didnt kill Madeleine and that she has been taken by some sicko who is doing anything to her while her parents are suffering with no clue where she is and if she is still alive.

Sadly Amy lie detector tests can be beaten, and it is also dependent on what questions are asked. For example if they asked "did you kill Madeline" and they had not and it had been an accident they were involved in they could say "no" and it would show them as telling the truth.

Also some people are able to be calm throughout the test which allows them to beat the test. I certainly wouldnt class someone as being innocent just because they had taken a polygraph test.

I admire your strong feelings about the McCanns and your certainty that they are innocent and agree we need to focus more on Madeline who is still missing. I wish I could be as sure as you are that they are innocent, I just cant let myself to be honest. To much of this does not add up for me, but I will say again I really want to be wrong about how I feel on this occasion.

[Amy21]

Originally posted by Sunny_01

Sadly Amy lie detector tests can be beaten, and it is also dependent on what questions are asked. For example if they asked "did you kill Madeline" and they had not and it had been an accident they were involved in they could say "no" and it would show them as telling the truth.

Also some people are able to be calm throughout the test which allows them to beat the test. I certainly wouldnt class someone as being innocent just because they had taken a polygraph test.

I admire your strong feelings about the McCanns and your certainty that they are innocent and agree we need to focus more on Madeline who is still missing. I wish I could be as sure as you are that they are innocent, I just cant let myself to be honest. To much of this does not add up for me, but I will say again I really want to be wrong about how I feel on this occasion.

This cant be true the McCanns are hardly experts on how to beat a lie detector test by messing with it or getting some phoney doctor to do something to it. I think they are genuine machines that tell the truth and cant be messed with to get it to say the right things. And I do believe that the McCanns didnt do anything to Madeleine. They were just a normal family on holiday and they got chosen at random by some sicko to take one of their kids. I dont think these parents are the type to kill a child as Kate McCann had Madeleine by IVF treatment and thats just shows how much she must of wanted kids to have Madeleine that way. It was revealed in the news she had Madeleine by IVF treatment. Doesnt that show you she really wanted kids so why would she go and kill her own child when she tried so hard to have kids through IVF treatment. People need to open their eyes and see the real truth.

[geoking66]

Amy21, all lie machines are about 85% effective. I've actually beaten one, it isn't too hard.