[bbfan1991]

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/01/y...thout-parole/#

Thoughts?

[Smithy]

seems right to me

[Ninastar]

Originally Posted by Smithy

seems right to me

this

[GypsyGoth]

Originally Posted by Ninastar

this

that

[Jessica.]

Originally Posted by Smithy

seems right to me

This.

[Omah]

Originally Posted by Smithy

seems right to me

Originally Posted by Ninastar

this

Originally Posted by GypsyGoth

that

Originally Posted by InOne

Probably only right. The kid is 13 now and if he is showing no signs of remorse he won't change. He's best kept away from Society

Originally Posted by Jessica.

This.

These

[MTVN]

I think it's wrong, you cant treat kids differently in every single respect throughout society and then treat him no differently than an adult in the justice system. You cant and shouldnt compare a child murderer to an adult murderer imo..

[Ninastar]

Originally Posted by MTVN

I think it's wrong, you cant treat kids differently in every single respect throughout society and then treat him no differently than an adult in the justice system. You cant and shouldnt compare a child murderer to an adult murderer imo..

I'm pretty sure they both know what they are doing though.

[MTVN]

Originally Posted by Ninastar

I'm pretty sure they both know what they are doing though.

Maybe but I dont think you can trust an 11 year old to fully understand life and the consequences of their actions as well as an adult can. They're young, naive, stupid and impressionable and cant assess situations the same way an adult can. They also have a far better chance of being able to turn their lives around than adults can and I dont think it's possible to say that because he killed someone at 11 you can just mark him down as an evil murderer for life.

[Stu]

End a life you should get life.

Jk lol I don't see things that black and white. The kid was eleven. He could have been helped and rehabilitated through extensive mental therapy to mould him into a functionable member of society. There was plenty of time. What's not to say he had a horrible upbringing and could have changed completely in a few years? It happens to drug addicts doesn't it? It happens to grown men and women when they 'find god' in the space of a day at the truck stop.

Originally Posted by Ninastar

I'm pretty sure they both know what they are doing though.

Yeah they both known in the visceral, immediate sense that they are ending a life ... but the difference in implications and world view etc between an adult and a child are endless.

Your brain doesn't stop developing at eleven, you know. Eleven year olds don't represent the current apex of human thought and understanding.

[Ninastar]

Originally Posted by Stu

End a life you should get life.

Jk lol I don't see things that black and white. The kid was eleven. He could have been helped and rehabilitated through extensive mental therapy to mould him into a functionable member of society. There was plenty of time. What's not to say he had a horrible upbringing and could have changed completely in a few years? It happens to drug addicts doesn't it? It happens to grown men and women when they 'find god' in the space of a day at the truck stop.


Yeah they both known in the visceral, immediate sense that they are ending a life ... but the difference in implications and world view etc between an adult and a child are endless.

Your brain doesn't stop developing at eleven, you know. Eleven year olds don't represent the current apex of human thought and understanding.

You have a point, but I still believe he deserves life imprisonment

[MTVN]

Originally Posted by Stu

End a life you should get life.

Jk lol I don't see things that black and white. The kid was eleven. He could have been helped and rehabilitated through extensive mental therapy to mould him into a functionable member of society. There was plenty of time. What's not to say he had a horrible upbringing and could have changed completely in a few years? It happens to drug addicts doesn't it? It happens to grown men and women when they 'find god' in the space of a day at the truck stop.


Yeah they both known in the visceral, immediate sense that they are ending a life ... but the difference in implications and world view etc between an adult and a child are endless.

Your brain doesn't stop developing at eleven, you know. Eleven year olds don't represent the current apex of human thought and understanding.

Yeah, I agree with this

[InOne]

Probably only right. The kid is 13 now and if he is showing no signs of remorse he won't change. He's best kept away from Society

[ILoveTRW]

Death penalty would be more deserving.

[Angus]

Jon Venables is a living testament as to how a vicious 10 year old child killer, despite being given every chance of rehabilitation, and every help in establishing a new identity and a new life, grows up and continues to offend, secure in the knowledge that our pathetic justice system will continue to make excuses for him, and do gooders will continue to fall over themselves to "explain" his despicable crimes and offer him "rehabilitation".

I doubt Jamie Bulger's parents give a rat's behind as to whether the two scumbags who killed their 2 year old son without an ounce of compassion or remorse, "turn their lives around".

[MTVN]

Originally Posted by angus58

Jon Venables is a living testament as to how a vicious 10 year old child killer, despite being given every chance of rehabilitation, and every help in establishing a new identity and a new life, grows up and continues to offend, secure in the knowledge that our pathetic justice system will continue to make excuses for him, and do gooders will continue to fall over themselves to "explain" his despicable crimes and offer him "rehabilitation".

I doubt Jamie Bulger's parents give a rat's behind as to whether the two scumbags who killed their 2 year old son without an ounce of compassion or remorse, "turn their lives around".

Obviously rehabilitation is possible, even more so in the cases of children, and all actions can be explained, it is of great benefit to us all to try and better understand why people commit the crimes they do.

[Shasown]

Originally Posted by angus58

Jon Venables is a living testament as to how a vicious 10 year old child killer, despite being given every chance of rehabilitation, and every help in establishing a new identity and a new life, grows up and continues to offend, secure in the knowledge that our pathetic justice system will continue to make excuses for him, and do gooders will continue to fall over themselves to "explain" his despicable crimes and offer him "rehabilitation".

I doubt Jamie Bulger's parents give a rat's behind as to whether the two scumbags who killed their 2 year old son without an ounce of compassion or remorse, "turn their lives around".

I take it from that post you are a glass half empty type of person eh?

You could look at it from another angle and say so far the rehabilitators in this case had a 50% success rate.

Bearing in mind when he comes up for early release after serving half of his two year term later this year, the Parole Board have to evaluate first his rehabilitation on the child porn charges, and then if his life licence should be reinstalled.

[Angus]

Originally Posted by Shasown

I take it from that post you are a glass half empty type of person eh?

You could look at it from another angle and say so far the rehabilitators in this case had a 50% success rate.

Bearing in mind when he comes up for early release after serving half of his two year term later this year, the Parole Board have to evaluate first his rehabilitation on the child porn charges, and then if his life licence should be reinstalled.

No I would say they caught the little b*stard before he got around to actually abducting another child and perhaps killing again. I would say it's a 100% fail. He had the benefit of years of psychiatric evaluation and treatment and every educational opportunity, not to mention the mollycoddling he got inside because of his age. The Parole Board have no right to be gambling with the welfare of his potential victims if they get it wrong again.

[BB_Eye]

Originally Posted by angus58

Jon Venables is a living testament as to how a vicious 10 year old child killer, despite being given every chance of rehabilitation, and every help in establishing a new identity and a new life, grows up and continues to offend, secure in the knowledge that our pathetic justice system will continue to make excuses for him, and do gooders will continue to fall over themselves to "explain" his despicable crimes and offer him "rehabilitation".
I doubt Jamie Bulger's parents give a rat's behind as to whether the two scumbags who killed their 2 year old son without an ounce of compassion or remorse, "turn their lives around".

Venables was a neglected child getting a 15 year jail sentence in an adult court... after pleading guilty at that. What more do you want? Should they have had him hung, drawn and quartered?

Nobody of his age before him was convicted in such a way without the prosecution first being required to prove that a person under the age of 14 can be deemed a culpable in the eyes of the law (doli incapax). This was the only reason they were able to scrape so much as a 10 year minimum sentence for him in the first place. We have media pressure from the gutter press to thank for the additional 5.

The very idea that an 11 year old has the capacity to freely choose between right and wrong is absurd anyhow. People are not born evil and most certainly can never become calculating psychopaths until late adolescence. It's every bit as absurd and dangerous as suggesting that a minor can consent to sex. Such is Britain's national fixation with punishing and mollycoddling children in equal measure.

Indeed, there is something to be learned from Venables re-offending after his release. That throwing children into prison is completely inadequete as both a deterrant and a method of rehabilitation.

[MTVN]

Originally Posted by InOne

It's the fact he pleaded "not guilty" which sorta spelt out to the judge he showed no remorse. And he's been there for 2 years, so he must've talked to therapists and that. Also the nature of the crime, cold and callous.

Hmm true, although his lawyers may well have advised that plea thinking there was not enough evidence or something like that.

Originally Posted by BB_Eye

Venables was a neglected child getting a 15 year jail sentence in an adult court... after pleading guilty at that. What more do you want? Should they have had him hung, drawn and quartered?

Nobody of his age before him was convicted in such a way without the prosecution first being required to prove that a person under the age of 14 can be deemed a culpable in the eyes of the law (doli incapax). This was the only reason they were able to scrape so much as a 10 year minimum sentence for him in the first place. We have media pressure from the gutter press to thank for the additional 5.

The very idea that an 11 year old has the capacity to freely choose between right and wrong is absurd anyhow. People are not born evil and most certainly can never become calculating psychopaths until late adolescence. It's every bit as absurd and dangerous as suggesting that a minor can consent to sex. Such is Britain's national fixation with punishing and mollycoddling children in equal measure.

Indeed, there is something to be learned from Venables re-offending after his release. That throwing children into prison is completely inadequete as both a deterrant and a method of rehabilitation.

Excellent post

[InOne]

Originally Posted by BB_Eye

Venables was a neglected child getting a 15 year jail sentence in an adult court... after pleading guilty at that. What more do you want? Should they have had him hung, drawn and quartered?

Nobody of his age before him was convicted in such a way without the prosecution first being required to prove that a person under the age of 14 can be deemed a culpable in the eyes of the law (doli incapax). This was the only reason they were able to scrape so much as a 10 year minimum sentence for him in the first place. We have media pressure from the gutter press to thank for the additional 5.

The very idea that an 11 year old has the capacity to freely choose between right and wrong is absurd anyhow. People are not born evil and most certainly can never become calculating psychopaths until late adolescence. It's every bit as absurd and dangerous as suggesting that a minor can consent to sex. Such is Britain's national fixation with punishing and mollycoddling children in equal measure.

Indeed, there is something to be learned from Venables re-offending after his release. That throwing children into prison is completely inadequete as both a deterrant and a method of rehabilitation.

Not always true. Think of Mary Bell.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by BB_Eye

Venables was a neglected child getting a 15 year jail sentence in an adult court... after pleading guilty at that. What more do you want? Should they have had him hung, drawn and quartered?

Nobody of his age before him was convicted in such a way without the prosecution first being required to prove that a person under the age of 14 can be deemed a culpable in the eyes of the law (doli incapax). This was the only reason they were able to scrape so much as a 10 year minimum sentence for him in the first place. We have media pressure from the gutter press to thank for the additional 5.

The very idea that an 11 year old has the capacity to freely choose between right and wrong is absurd anyhow. People are not born evil and most certainly can never become calculating psychopaths until late adolescence. It's every bit as absurd and dangerous as suggesting that a minor can consent to sex. Such is Britain's national fixation with punishing and mollycoddling children in equal measure.

Indeed, there is something to be learned from Venables re-offending after his release. That throwing children into prison is completely inadequete as both a deterrant and a method of rehabilitation.

I agree with this post but mainly the bolded point.

It's a difficult case though, on one hand a life sentence for a child seems wrong yet he's completely unrepentant for his crimes. Maybe give him a long sentence but in a Mental Health facility? I'm not sure. Every solution feels wrong with this one.

[Fetch The Bolt Cutters]

another joyful post from angus

[Angus]

Originally Posted by Scott

another joyful post from angus

If you want chat, games and frivolity, you're on the wrong thread

[Patrick]

Suicide is the only way out.

No honestly, if I was in that position that's what I'd do.