[Grimnir]

Are you happy with UK Justice system?

What Justice system would you have in place?

Here is mine

All sentences would be between 10 and 30 years depending on severity of the crime. Most serious crimes such as murder, rape, child abuse, terrorism, trafficking would carry automatic LIFE sentence.
Parole and probation system would be scrapped completely. If a prisoner is deemed a possible threat to society they stay in prison.

Each prison cell would have 2 bunk beds, toilet and sink. No televisions, newspapers, pool tables or any other form of entertainment would be available.
Educational documentary would be made and shown to schools throughout the country showing just how awful prisons are.
The prisoners who will one day have freedom will never want to go back and those who are there for life will be punished till they die.

Next there would be special rehab type prison hospitals. These are for criminals caught in possession of drugs and alcohol related drunken disorderly offences such as fighting after a night out.

If caught with drugs you are sent to the rehab and stay there until you volunteer yourself for drug detox. This is when you spend 1 months in isolation with no drugs of any kind available. After the month has passed you are released back into society.
For alcohol related crimes you spend 1 month in isolation with no alcohol in an attempt to make you get your life sorted.
These rehab prisons are not as harsh as the prisons, books and television is available. They also have help and advice from professionals.

[MTVN]

I'd support a restorative justice system, and have a balance between the rights of both the victim and the offender, and between retribution and rehabilitations. Under no circumstances would the death penalty ever be implemented, and I'd stop criminalising people for victimless crimes; prostitution etc.

[Tom.]

Its simply not economically feasible to have these ideal prison sentences. The only way to do it is for tax to go up even more. The prisons are already vastly populated and it already costs in excess of £2bn a year.

I think the prison system does well under the constaints its given, but they should strip away the luxuries and the courts need to use a bit more common sense over the law books.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Grimnir

Are you happy with UK Justice system?

What Justice system would you have in place?

Here is mine

All sentences would be between 10 and 30 years depending on severity of the crime. Most serious crimes such as murder, rape, child abuse, terrorism, trafficking would carry automatic LIFE sentence.
Parole and probation system would be scrapped completely. If a prisoner is deemed a possible threat to society they stay in prison.

Each prison cell would have 2 bunk beds, toilet and sink. No televisions, newspapers, pool tables or any other form of entertainment would be available.
Educational documentary would be made and shown to schools throughout the country showing just how awful prisons are.
The prisoners who will one day have freedom will never want to go back and those who are there for life will be punished till they die.

Next there would be special rehab type prison hospitals. These are for criminals caught in possession of drugs and alcohol related drunken disorderly offences such as fighting after a night out.

If caught with drugs you are sent to the rehab and stay there until you volunteer yourself for drug detox. This is when you spend 1 months in isolation with no drugs of any kind available. After the month has passed you are released back into society.
For alcohol related crimes you spend 1 month in isolation with no alcohol in an attempt to make you get your life sorted.
These rehab prisons are not as harsh as the prisons, books and television is available. They also have help and advice from professionals.

Wait what? So I could steal an apple from a shop and be sent down for a decade if they decide to press charges?

I'm sorry but there's so much wrong with your idea that it's laughable.

I think the system we have now is fine, just needs some adjustments here and there.

[Grimnir]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

Wait what? So I could steal an apple from a shop and be sent down for a decade if they decide to press charges?

I'm sorry but there's so much wrong with your idea that it's laughable.

I think the system we have now is fine, just needs some adjustments here and there.

System is fine is it?

How about when gang of youths beat someone to death, laugh in court and get 10-15 years only. Once they in prison they have a laugh and could even be let out in half the time.

Or paedophiles who get sentences like 3 years

If the offence is a little kid stealing apple or sweets they would not go prison for 10 years obviously. If a burglar breaks into a house, invades someones home and steals valuable possessions of someone. That kind of scum goes to prison for 10 years at least!
If they break into the home of elderly couple and beat them up then those fu**ers go away for LIFE.

You are the one with laughable ideas of justice

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Grimnir

System is fine is it?

How about when gang of youths beat someone to death, laugh in court and get 10-15 years only. Once they in prison they have a laugh and could even be let out in half the time.

Or paedophiles who get sentences like 3 years

If the offence is a little kid stealing apple or sweets they would not go prison for 10 years obviously. If a burglar breaks into a house, invades someones home and steals valuable possessions of someone. That kind of scum goes to prison for 10 years at least!
If they break into the home of elderly couple and beat them up then those fu**ers go away for LIFE.

You are the one with laughable ideas of justice

I just thank god that bloodthirsty people like you who dress up their bloodlust as 'justice' will never get the power to affect anything. You've got a warped sense of time if you think 10-15 years isn't very long considering that for serious crimes you'd be sent to Class A prisons which is the equivalent of Maximum Security which is far from the easy breezy time you delude yourself into believing it is.

You've obviously read too much Daily Mail or one of it's counterparts and think that all prisons are like modified holiday parks which is far from the truth as is people getting lesser sentences. It's rare cases that get highlighted by the press and made out to be the norm in order to stir a reaction in their readers so they keep on reading.

Your hardline approach would fail miserably, as others have said it's not financially viable and it's generally an utterly ridiculous idea.

[Grimnir]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

I just thank god that bloodthirsty people like you who dress up their bloodlust as 'justice' will never get the power to affect anything. You've got a warped sense of time if you think 10-15 years isn't very long considering that for serious crimes you'd be sent to Class A prisons which is the equivalent of Maximum Security which is far from the easy breezy time you delude yourself into believing it is.

You've obviously read too much Daily Mail or one of it's counterparts and think that all prisons are like modified holiday parks which is far from the truth as is people getting lesser sentences. It's rare cases that get highlighted by the press and made out to be the norm in order to stir a reaction in their readers so they keep on reading.

Your hardline approach would fail miserably, as others have said it's not financially viable and it's generally an utterly ridiculous idea.

your loony left liberal approach is beyond utterly ridiculous
why do you defend criminal scum?
i bet you don't give a sh** about victims of crime
probably just say crap like oh well thats life live with it, now let me listen to me ipod
i don't read papers ever i just see the news and know that crime is increasing and justice system stinks

if a gang beat someone to death for a laugh what sentence would you suggest for them? would you be filming it on phone and laughing? would you get angry reading the story or not?

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Grimnir

your loony left liberal approach is beyond utterly ridiculous
why do you defend criminal scum?
i bet you don't give a sh** about victims of crime
probably just say crap like oh well thats life live with it, now let me listen to me ipod
i don't read papers ever i just see the news and know that crime is increasing and justice system stinks

if a gang beat someone to death for a laugh what sentence would you suggest for them? would you be filming it on phone and laughing? would you get angry reading the story or not?

You lack the subtlety to understand me, just because I'm not all for inhumane punishments doesn't mean I'm defending the criminals I just think violent and torturous punishments for violent crimes is hypocrtical, We'd be doing the same thing as them but dressing it up as justice when we as a society need to be above that..

I've lost a family member to violet crime, I know how it feels but I also know better then to want revenge, the person who did it is rotting in prison now and I don't care if he has a telly or not, I know how bleak those places are and regardless of treats people will still suffer there, people like you always forget the other inmates and how they'll make life hell.

Your assumptions have lost you any credibility you might have had, you know nothing of anything of how the law or the prison systems work, and the fact you've resorted to painting me as some criminal sympathiser is hilarious. Take your ranting elsewhere because it'll get you nowhere here. Just because you've seen a news bulletin doesn't make you an expert on the ethics and ins and outs of crime and punishment.

[Shaun]

I'm not really sure someone in prison for fighting after a night out is really worth the effort of rehabilitation - it could just as easily be a one-off moment of madness. Same for drugs possession: not all are addicts.

I agree with the basic prison cells though - the whole redemption idea and gaining of privileges (such as TV or whatever) is just a waste of money, to be honest. As much as I'm in favour of the idea of rehabilitation.

[Shasown]

A minor problem with the removal of so called luxuries, is the fact you remove them and it will increase resentment, boredom and anger.

Most prisoners are life's under achievers, people who had educational problems, life's drop outs. Build up boredom anger resentment, fustration etc and you go back to prison riots, increased assaults on prison staff etc.

Treat a man like a dog and he will eventually bite.

[Stu]

Give 'em all the bloody chair etc.

The country would be near bankrupt alone simply on the back of processing and detaining every single person caught with any amount of drug. You do realize that right?

[Zippy]

I think there should definitely be much longer sentences for any form of violent crime or intrusive crimes where you are a physical threat to others.

this could be counteracted with shorter prison sentences for non victim crimes(like benefit fraud). With criminals that are not a threat to others they should be more creative with punishments and give them community service or house arrest even. If it involves money fraud then fine them and make them pay out of their wages or benefits.

Prisons are just filled up with the wrong people. Hardcore burglars, muggers and violent thugs are constantly thrown back out time and time again even though everybody knows they will re-offend in a matter of time. There should be a 3 strikes rule; after 3 convictions its a life sentence automatically. Like they had in New york and was a huge success.

[Stu]

The balls out, 'get tough on prisoners' mentality always amuses me. Simply being locked up and away from society is punishment in itself. I couldn't care less how comftorable the beds are or how many books they are allowed read. They are in the process of being punished enough as it is. Let them educate themselves whilst they are there instead of just caging them up in solitude. What difference does it make to your life, really?

~liberal elite 4 lyf dawg.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Stu

The balls out, 'get tough on prisoners' mentality always amuses me. Simply being locked up and away from society is punishment in itself. I couldn't care less how comftorable the beds are or how many books they are allowed read. They are in the process of being punished enough as it is. Let them educate themselves whilst they are there instead of just caging them up in solitude. What difference does it make to your life, really?

~liberal elite 4 lyf dawg.

Exactly, surely the solitude of it would be more damaging in the long run as well? Books and a community TV won't make their prison lives any easier in the slightest.

[Zippy]

Originally Posted by Stu

Simply being locked up and away from society is punishment in itself.

not for some. They become quickly accustomed and for many its a better life than they have outside. Much better in fact.

seeing them with pool tables, computer games, TVs, dvds and God knows what else is pretty offensive to many. Many free law abiding people can't even afford to have these things.

Im not for treating them like animals but all these luxuries are just too much. No wonder most keep going back to prison.

[Stu]

Originally Posted by Zippy

not for some. They become quickly accustomed and for many its a better life than they have outside. Much better in fact.

seeing them with pool tables, computer games, TVs, dvds and God knows what else is pretty offensive to many. Many free law abiding people can't even afford to have these things.

Im not for treating them like animals but all these luxuries are just too much. No wonder most keep going back to prison.

Most who enjoy prison don't enjoy it for the pool tables and DVD's though. They can get that outside. They become addicted to the stability of it. The constant meals, the structure without need to be motivated in life, that's the draw. The sheer sense of being institutionalized.

I wouldn't give them video game consoles and 24/7 TV but occasional screenings? Sure. Pool tables? Not a problem. No harm in the lads having a game of pool with each other. Worse things could happen in there without it.

You have to take in to account the severity of the crimes too of course, I know.

[Shasown]

Originally Posted by Zippy

not for some. They become quickly accustomed and for many its a better life than they have outside. Much better in fact.

seeing them with pool tables, computer games, TVs, dvds and God knows what else is pretty offensive to many. Many free law abiding people can't even afford to have these things.

Im not for treating them like animals but all these luxuries are just too much. No wonder most keep going back to prison.

There are a small number of repeat offenders who do find life inside easier than life outside. However most repeat offenders have turned back to crime because they cant make a go of life after release.

Does this actually point to the fact that rehabilitation and support services after release are very poor?

[Grimnir]

removing all entertainment and making prisons very basic is not just to make them more punishing and hellish but also to save lots of money that is wasted on them
many criminals will be less inclined to commit crimes if they know they will get sent to a tough prison for a very long sentence so prisons will eventually have fewer inmates and society will be improved
money should not be an issue when it comes to keeping law abiding citizens safe from criminal scum
i hate how loony left always stick up for the criminal and dont give a sh** about the victims of crime

[Shasown]

Originally Posted by Grimnir

removing all entertainment and making prisons very basic is not just to make them more punishing and hellish but also to save lots of money that is wasted on them
many criminals will be less inclined to commit crimes if they know they will get sent to a tough prison for a very long sentence so prisons will eventually have fewer inmates and society will be improved
money should not be an issue when it comes to keeping law abiding citizens safe from criminal scum
i hate how loony left always stick up for the criminal and dont give a sh** about the victims of crime

A reasonable argument I suppose, unfortunately its not backed up by any evidence whatsoever.

If you educated yourself on the subject, lets say for example going onto the Ministry of Justices website and looking at re offending rates, you would know that prisoners who serve in the more harsher regimes within the prison system have higher re-offending rates.

The lowest re-offending rates within the whole justice system occur when the criminal is involved with some form of community work and rehabilitating education. Either in or out of prison.

[Stu]

Originally Posted by Grimnir

money should not be an issue when it comes to keeping law abiding citizens safe from criminal scum

Money is an issue though. Again ... where do you plan on sourcing the funds to apply forced rehab to every single person caught with any amount of recreational drugs? It's impossible. And most of them are not some dangerous threat to society that citizens need to be 'safe' from.

[Tom.]

Originally Posted by Stu

The balls out, 'get tough on prisoners' mentality always amuses me. Simply being locked up and away from society is punishment in itself. I couldn't care less how comftorable the beds are or how many books they are allowed read. They are in the process of being punished enough as it is. Let them educate themselves whilst they are there instead of just caging them up in solitude. What difference does it make to your life, really?

~liberal elite 4 lyf dawg.

Reoffending rates have increased as the prisons have become more relaxed. Coincidence?

For some people, prison is a better life than outside, hence some people want to go back in. A comfortable prison just simply isn't a big enough deterrent from crime.

[Tom4784]

I think a lot of people overestimate the luxuries, considering the company they'll be forced keep in prison and how miserable it is I doubt an Xbox would make it easier. In fact thinking about it the luxuries would make you a target surely?

[Vicky.]

Pretty much the only difference I would make is that LIFE sentences mean just that. Not 10 years or whatever.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Pretty much the only difference I would make is that LIFE sentences mean just that. Not 10 years or whatever.

this but also higher sentences for paedophiles, rapists and any violent crimes

[Vicky.]

Possession shouldnt be illegal anyways, but thats a whole other story

From my experience, you are MUCH less likely to be violent or anything on drugs anyways. Personally I just go into my own happy little world and talk a load of ****e.