[AnnieK]

Originally Posted by Kazanne

The other one was Corey Feldman who released a statement yesterday Joey, and another thing that bothers me now,WHY has the one guy kept the jewellery that this so called abuser brought him, that is not normal behaviour,I think you might be right that jealousy has paid a big part in this, now it's payback time,just a shame MJ is not here to defend himself, I am a fan of MJ I went to see him on his BAD tour,but I do admit he was not like us but I just think he was trying to relive his childhood somewhat,kids made him happy nothing wrong with that imo. and what must his poor kids be going through now.

His kids are probably going through the same hell as the kids he shared a bed with

[Niamh.]

So unless Michael abused every boy he met then he abused none of them? Good logic

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by AnnieK

So do you think a man who has open admitted to sharing a bed with pre pubescent boys is normal?? Dropping said boy for a younger model when approaching puberty? Sharing a bed / bedroom with that CHILD??? Playing with the needs and.emotions of a child is abuse....whether you lay a finger on them or not

For him to say himself he shared his bed says he is not hiding anything most people wouldn't even mention that,it's not normal to us but in his mind it was, and the boys he apparently swapped the two accusers for have both said he has done nothing sexual to them,so if he wanted sex why would he have swapped them and done nothing ? maybe the accusers were jealous well they were the one admitted it.maybe their cashcow was running out.

[AnnieK]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

So unless Michael abused every boy he met then he abused none of them? Good logic

Kind of looks that way, the ones who have the most to lose (film stars/celebs) say it didn't happen so it couldn't have done

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Firewire

It's hard for someone who has never been sexually abused to accuse some of lying about child sexual abuse.

I believe the victims at this stage, why wouldn't I? Perhaps their accounts aren't 100% accurate (but is anything ever 100% accurate when retold after 30 years...?)

Macaulay Culkin and Corey Feldman have said nothing sexual happened to them... because perhaps it didn't? Just because he is an alleged abuser doesn't mean he abused everyone.

True, but Macaulay in particular was one of the closest to him, so it seems odd that if his interest in children was sexual, that he would not only avoid abuse but have no knowledge of any of this behaviour happening with all of these children he spent so much time with.

Corey Feldman, well his own story is an entire volume of its own. From his own account he was passed around quite a big network of Hollywood pedophiles. Jacko not being included in this group of powerful entertainment industry influencers is, again, interesting.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by AnnieK

So do you think a man who has open admitted to sharing a bed with pre pubescent boys is normal?? Dropping said boy for a younger model when approaching puberty? Sharing a bed / bedroom with that CHILD??? Playing with the needs and.emotions of a child is abuse....whether you lay a finger on them or not

Where did I say this?

We can debate all day how weird Jackson is, his behaviour, his family, his entire life and him toying with the lives of these children and their families. I for one find the entire notion of these families practically selling their kids in the hopes of fame and fortune abhorrent.

But, again, that's not evidence of pedophilia.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by AnnieK

Kind of looks that way, the ones who have the most to lose (film stars/celebs) say it didn't happen so it couldn't have done

What exactly does Corey Feldman have to lose by speaking out against Jackson?
He hasn't had much of a career beyond his films as a child star.

His entire life was ruined due to his abuse, and he's spoken about what happened to him for many years. Why would he draw the line at Jacko?

[AnnieK]

Originally Posted by Kazanne

For him to say himself he shared his bed says he is not hiding anything most people wouldn't even mention that,it's not normal to us but in his mind it was, and the boys he apparently swapped the two accusers for have both said he has done nothing sexual to them,so if he wanted sex why would he have swapped them and done nothing ? maybe the accusers were jealous well they were the one admitted it.maybe their cashcow was running out.

Whether he did anything sexual or not is irrelevant.....he played with a kids emotions. Emotional abuse is as, if not more devastating to a kid as physical or sexual as it leaves no scars, only in their minds. I can't argue this any more, its making me emotional, if in years to come my lad ever came out with suffering from any kind of abuse in any form whether it be a celebrity, family member ir stranger, I would be after him.to pursue it, criminally, monetarily or plain ****ing revenge

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

If you can't watch that and see two men not lying I'd suggest you are too young or blinded by fame

It's not complex

In fact it's pretty obvious

Oh we can't all be as old as you.

Some of our mind reading skills have yet to flourish.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by AnnieK

Whether he did anything sexual or not is irrelevant.....

Not really. It's the difference between him being a kiddie fiddler and not, the entire purpose of the documentary is to condemn him as a sexual abuser.

Originally Posted by AnnieK

I can't argue this any more, its making me emotional, if in years to come my lad ever came out with suffering from any kind of abuse in any form whether it be a celebrity, family member ir stranger, I would be after him.to pursue it, criminally, monetarily or plain ****ing revenge

Let's hope he wouldn't aid his abuser to escape justice, reap the financial rewards and then try to capitalise on the attention a decade after his death when the money has dried up.

[AnnieK]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

Where did I say this?

We can debate all day how weird Jackson is, his behaviour, his family, his entire life and him toying with the lives of these children and their families. I for one find the entire notion of these families practically selling their kids in the hopes of fame and fortune abhorrent.

But, again, that's not evidence of pedophilia.

So a grown man, not related, who shares a bed with a pre pubescent child, who he purpotes to "love" is not evidence of maybe, even slightly peodo behaviour, grooming, ego stroking??? Whatever the **** you think it is, it is WRONG. Ge had a pull towards children as an adult...wrong. he has a legal team, family, friends around him who should have recognised the behaviour and stopped it. I personally don't feel he was your tabloid fodder predator but regardless kids were involved and have been affected...I don't give a **** if he was the king of pop or the queen of sheba, he or those around him should have stopped it.

[AnnieK]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

Not really. It's the difference between him being a kiddie fiddler and not, the entire purpose of the documentary is to condemn him as a sexual abuser.



Let's hope he wouldn't aid his abuser to escape justice, reap the financial rewards and then try to capitalise on the attention a decade after his death when the money has dried up.

He certainly ****ing wouldn't....but keep trying.

If my son were abused, money in the world would make up for that

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by AnnieK

So a grown man, not related, who shares a bed with a pre pubescent child, who he purpotes to "love" is not evidence of maybe, even slightly peodo behaviour, grooming, ego stroking??? Whatever the **** you think it is, it is WRONG. Ge had a pull towards children as an adult...wrong. he has a legal team, family, friends around him who should have recognised the behaviour and stopped it. I personally don't feel he was your tabloid fodder predator but regardless kids were involved and have been affected...I don't give a **** if he was the king of pop or the queen of sheba, he or those around him should have stopped it.

I never said it wasn't wrong. Hollywood and its treatment of kids, child stars, vulnerable people is abhorrent.

But, no, not evidence of pedophilia.

Evidence of a strange man, but then his entire life and persona wasn't exactly normal. Does this mean he was a saint? No. But equally it doesn't mean he's guilty of every label and accusation that can be thrown his way.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by AnnieK

He certainly ****ing wouldn't....but keep trying.

If my son were abused, money in the world would make up for that

Keep trying what?

You made a reference to what these men are doing, saying you would hope your son if in this situation would want revenge and justice. I was merely pointing out exactly what these men have done over the past two decades isn't really that.

[Kazanne]

What's with the condemnation of MJ this week I switch to channel 5 and another documentary about him 'poor guy' let him bloody rest

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Kazanne

What's with the condemnation of MJ this week I switch to channel 5 and another documentary about him 'poor guy' let him bloody rest

They've seen the fame and attention MeToo has brought and want a slice of that action. They were refused when trying to capitalise on his death so now they've found another opening.

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

They've seen the fame and attention MeToo has brought and want a slice of that action. They were refused when trying to capitalise on his death so now they've found another opening.

Why are they always so negative about him this one is about his plastic surgery, he is gone , we all know how far he went ,so no need for this witch hunt

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Kazanne

The other one was Corey Feldman who released a statement yesterday Joey, and another thing that bothers me now,WHY has the one guy kept the jewellery that this so called abuser brought him, that is not normal behaviour,I think you might be right that jealousy has paid a big part in this, now it's payback time,just a shame MJ is not here to defend himself, I am a fan of MJ I went to see him on his BAD tour,but I do admit he was not like us but I just think he was trying to relive his childhood somewhat,kids made him happy nothing wrong with that imo. and what must his poor kids be going through now.

The jewellery part helped lead me to not believe he was being genuine.

He admits even as a child, he loved jewellery.
He fiddled with the rings.
Shoving them on the end of his fingers.
Happily talking about them being bought for him.

No passion or no distress evident.

Then stating he didn't like looking at the jewellery after a fair inclusion of same in this documentary.

He's talking about being abused, things done he didn't like, not any clouding of his eyes.
Tears nowhere to be seen, a drought of them.

The only slight notable change of attitude was when they felt they were no longer a main part of Jackson's inner circle.
After the arrival of others.

I watched this starting with the intention to listen and give them the benefit of the doubt.
The longer it went on, I was just of the view they were far from being truthful on the supposed abuse.

Mixing likely false accusations along with genuine accounts of the times they were made to feel important.

I don't buy what they are saying at all.

[AnnieK]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

Where did I say this?

We can debate all day how weird Jackson is, his behaviour, his family, his entire life and him toying with the lives of these children and their families. I for one find the entire notion of these families practically selling their kids in the hopes of fame and fortune abhorrent.

But, again, that's not evidence of pedophilia.

A paedophile is.someone who has urges towards pre-pubescent children, whether they act upon those urges or leave them as fantasies....whether any contact has happened or not, the evidence of naked pictures is evidence of some level.of peado behaviour, I don't have naked pics of my kid at this age as he would be mortified and neither do any of my friends with kids over the age of 2-3 so why would he have pictures of naked, semi naked kids that were.not related if not for some gratification???

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Kazanne

I'm not doubting that, The FBI secretly investigate Michael Jackson for four years - tracking his where abouts, his computers, phone calls, etc and release a 300 plus page file completely vindicating him, stating there was absolutely nothing to even remotely suggest he was an abuser, and the general public (and media) completely ignores it. Yet two admitted liars and perjurers (one of which who even refers to himself as a ‘master of deception’) can come out with a completely one sided, sensationalist story (yes story not documentary) which contains literally no evidence whatsoever (and is full of inconsistencies) and a large majority of the public doesn’t even question it.

The jurors who found Michael Jackson not guilty in his 2005 trial agree with the FBI. Juror Paulina Coccoz said: ‘It was pretty obvious there was no molestation done...it was pretty obvious that there were ulterior motives on behalf of the family. And the mother, she orchestrated the whole thing..there wasn’t a shred of evidence’.

Just because a story is graphic and disturbing doesn’t make it factual. Before you judge anything do your research. Facts don’t lie, people do.

The bottom line is..

If you want to view Michael Jackson as a pedophile, you will. It’s easy to do. He admitted to allowing children to sleep in his bedroom (which itself is the same size as a small two story house) and has been accused of child molestation more then once. He’s not the guy next door, was undeniably eccentric, and most certainly didn’t live a conventional life.

But to anyone who has bothered to look into the allegations against him - and I mean really look into them - there is more than enough evidence to demonstrate that he was a victim of extortion and of copycat false claims for the past twenty five years. Yet despite the Los Angeles Police Department stating that Jackson should be presumed to be innocent, despite a jury finding him not guilty on every single charge against him, despite the Los Angeles Department of Children and Family Services twice investigating and clearing him of wrongdoing, despite the FBI conducting a very thorough investigation in which no evidence of wrongdoing was found, and despite the cash grab lawsuits of his posthumous accusers being tossed out of court, the court of public opinion may sadly be what defines this saga and a large part of his legacy.

I quoted the bottom part of this earlier and replied..I cannot sleep so have been looking around at stuff about this, and...well

http://www.damienshields.com/what-th...s-to-tell-you/

If you want to view Michael Jackson as a pedophile, you will. It’s easy to do. He has admitted to allowing children to sleep in his bedroom (which itself is the same size as a small two-storey house) and has been accused of child molestation on multiple occasions. He’s not the guy next door, was undeniably eccentric, and most certainly didn’t live a conventional life. But to anyone who has bothered to look into the allegations against him—and I mean really look into them—there is more than enough evidence to demonstrate that the pop icon has been a victim of extortion and of copycat false claims for the past twenty-five years. Yet despite the Los Angeles Police Department stating that Jackson should be presumed to be innocent, despite the Los Angeles Department of Children and Family Services twice investigating and clearing Jackson of wrongdoing, despite the FBI conducting a ten-year investigation into the singer in which no evidence of wrongdoing was found (click here to read the FBI’s 300-page file on Jackson, released under the Freedom of Information Act), and despite the cash-grab lawsuits of Jackson’s posthumous accusers being tossed out of court, the court of public opinion may be what defines this entire saga, and Jackson’s legacy.

Infact when reading this, I had deja vu at so many points. Cutting and pasting replies from someone elses post/writings (changing the odd word here and there..but essentially just pasting someone elses thoughts) without crediting them is quite bad form

[Vicky.]

Off to watch this now anyway. Depending on the state of the thread in the morning, might be back

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by AnnieK

A paedophile is.someone who has urges towards pre-pubescent children, whether they act upon those urges or leave them as fantasies....whether any contact has happened or not, the evidence of naked pictures is evidence of some level.of peado behaviour, I don't have naked pics of my kid at this age as he would be mortified and neither do any of my friends with kids over the age of 2-3 so why would he have pictures of naked, semi naked kids that were.not related if not for some gratification???

And you were privy to his urges?

[Twosugars]

Watched it and remain sceptical about their claims.
He had Peter Pan syndrome, but that doesn't mean he was a paedo, sorry.

[Twosugars]

Wish you'd put it in a spoiler

Idk about Freddy, but I'd not buy a second hand car from him

[GoldHeart]

Originally Posted by Kazanne

I agree ,he was a strange person in some ways , he was very childlike himself . but that doesn't prove he was a peado , just that he was very eccentric and different , amazing talent that some people seem to have always wanted to destroy . Very unfair now that he is dead aswell .

I honestly think MJ had alot of issues and lacked the support and advice he needed . And like you say was very childlike himself , i think he missed his childhood as he had alot of pressure and was thrown into fame soo young with Jackson 5 .

I think he was very naive around children , i think he genuinely just wanted them to be happy . I don't think he ever in his wildest nightmares expected them to all turn against him .

The Martin Bashir documentary ( Bashire was a 2 faced idiot) , really highlighted how innocent MJ was but things got twisted of course . Plus why do people keep forgetting that MJ himself was telling children to have his bed while he sleeps ELSEWHERE ?? . But it sounds like the kids would still want to share a bed with him as they supposedly idolised him.

Also if i was abused by someone , whether it was a celebrity or not i WOULD NEVER demand or want any of their money . Who accepts money from an alleged sexual predator? if they've genuinely been abused by them . That's where these greedy liars messed up .

I think MJ thought it would go away if he kept "paying them off" so to speak . But in my eyes that doesn't make him look guilty it just makes the accusers look dirty and scummy. We all know MJ was sadly wreckless with his finances and he spent hell of alot of money . And lacked guidance .

And it's disgusting how even in death this witch hunt continues , more people attention seeking and cashing in on destroying a dead man's reputation who can't fight back.