[Alf]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

I would not be surprised if he walks away from this, it does seem a little trumped up

He's being Julian Assange'd.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by Alf

He's being Julian Assange'd.

i get that feeling

[user104658]

Just utter nonsense. The man is guilty of sex trafficking - from his own mouth. He bragged about it. This narrative that "maybe his hoes quite enjoyed it when he hit them in the face" is repulsive. And the posting of messages from people he groomed and exploited as proof of his innocence is maddening. Just such a massive understanding of the mechanisms involved in sex trafficking of young women and girls.

And then to compare him to a political whistle-blower because his basement-dwelling gym bro incel fan base has come up with some ridiculous story about how he's some sort of hero exposing the political elite . Fantasy. An absolute fantasy world. He's never said one word that he didn't read off Reddit first, he's a fraud all round, what exactly is he supposedly exposing?

[arista]

He (Andrew Tate) was in Court again today

Still No Charges

They plan to hold him in the Police cell
until 27th of Feb.


SkyNewsHD
outside the Romanian Court.

[Alf]

Originally Posted by arista

He was in Court again today

Still No Charges

They plan to hold him in the Police cell
until 27th of Feb.


SkyNewsHD
outside the Romanian Court.

Julian Assange'd

[MTVN]

Not many complaining about people being held without being charged now it's the Tates

Most countries you can't be held more than a day or 2 with no charge, they've been there for a month

[bots]

Originally Posted by MTVN

Not many complaining about people being held without being charged now it's the Tates

Most countries you can't be held more than a day or 2 with no charge, they've been there for a month

the court extended it to 2 months. Same as courts do here, although we normally max that out at about 2 weeks

[MTVN]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

the court extended it to 2 months. Same as courts do here, although we normally max that out at about 2 weeks

I think most countries would consider that a pretty big human rights breach. Even if you're being held on terror offences here it wouldn't be allowed to go anywhere near that time

[bots]

Originally Posted by MTVN

I think most countries would consider that a pretty big human rights breach. Even if you're being held on terror offences here it wouldn't be allowed to go anywhere near that time

i think it's rather satisfying that the Tates moved to Romania because they thought they had the police and legal system in their pockets and could behave as they please without recourse

[Alf]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

i think it's rather satisfying that the Tates moved to Romania because they thought they had the police and legal system in their pockets and could behave as they please without recourse

I think their point was that they're corrupt and could be bought. Which seems like what we're witnessing here.

[MTVN]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

i think it's rather satisfying that the Tates moved to Romania because they thought they had the police and legal system in their pockets and could behave as they please without recourse

I can get that sentiment but however much you hate Tate surely people have to admit that this operation is a bit of a shambles at this point lol

[bots]

Romania are corrupt to the core, the problem with that, as the tates have found out, is that if someone powerful wants to pin something on them, they are toast

[Alf]

Toy Soldier told me the other day that I was wrong when I said that there hadn't been any charges against them. This international lawyer backs me up here and claims Toy Soldier to be wrong.

You keep listening to all the wrong people Toy Soldier and you keep taking in all their disinformation as facts.

When will you listen to and learn from the conspiracy theorists who always turn out to be right?

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by Alf

Toy Soldier told me the other day that I was wrong when I said that there hadn't been any charges against them. This international lawyer backs me up here and claims Toy Soldier to be wrong.

You keep listening to all the wrong people Toy Soldier and you keep taking in all their disinformation as facts.

When will you listen to and learn from the conspiracy theorists who always turn out to be right?

this whole thing stinks to high heaven

[user104658]

He's being held on charges relating to sex trafficking and exploiting women into performing sex acts on cam sites, and related organised crime charges (probably money laundering and fraud).

He hasn't been formally charged in court because they are still gathering evidence.

That does not mean there aren't charges. The charges he's being held on are those above, there's no mystery, this is publicly available information.

They're being held while the charges are investigated because they are considered a high risk of leaving the country if they're released. This is NOT all that unusual when someone is a flight risk, or a risk of destroying evidence.

The idea that this is a grand political conspiracy is mad. He's a sad reddit Redpill fraudster who believed his own hype too much and flew too close to the sun by bragging about his crimes all over the Internet. How on earth is he anything like Julian Assange? Can you name ONE secret that he's revealed to the world that hadnt been on Reddit forums already for years? Just... One? Do you believe that all of his "matrix" talk was something new?

[arista]

"He hasn't been formally charged in court
because they are still gathering evidence."


Yes TS
they should have enough by now,
unless they are corrupt?
And making up stuff?

[MTVN]

Originally Posted by Soldier Boy

He's being held on charges relating to sex trafficking and exploiting women into performing sex acts on cam sites, and related organised crime charges (probably money laundering and fraud).

He hasn't been formally charged in court because they are still gathering evidence.

That does not mean there aren't charges. The charges he's being held on are those above, there's no mystery, this is publicly available information.

They're being held while the charges are investigated because they are considered a high risk of leaving the country if they're released. This is NOT all that unusual when someone is a flight risk, or a risk of destroying evidence.

The idea that this is a grand political conspiracy is mad. He's a sad reddit Redpill fraudster who believed his own hype too much and flew too close to the sun by bragging about his crimes all over the Internet. How on earth is he anything like Julian Assange? Can you name ONE secret that he's revealed to the world that hadnt been on Reddit forums already for years? Just... One? Do you believe that all of his "matrix" talk was something new?

Maybe I'm being thick but I'm confused by your terminology. What does 'being held on charges' mean?

Surely the usual steps of committing a crime are: arrested on suspicion > charged > face trial > found guilty. You don't need to be charged in court, you get charged just after your arrest? By all accounts the Tates are still at stage one of that process - arrested but not charged. In the UK, you cannot be held without charge for more than 4 days unless you are arrested on terror offences

From the BBC article yesterday:

Police have not yet laid any charges against the brothers, who moved to Romania five years ago.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-64485965

[user104658]

Originally Posted by MTVN

Maybe I'm being thick but I'm confused by your terminology. What does 'being held on charges' mean?

Surely the usual steps of committing a crime are: arrested on suspicion > charged > face trial > found guilty. You don't need to be charged in court, you get charged just after your arrest? By all accounts the Tates are still at stage one of that process - arrested but not charged. In the UK, you cannot be held without charge for more than 4 days unless you are arrested on terror offences

From the BBC article yesterday:

The idea that they're being held without charges is being used to in other words say "they can't even say what they're holding them for" - this is false, they have said what they're holding them for, they have said what the charges will be if/when charges go ahead, and they have said why they've been detained while the investigation is ongoing.

That it would be illegal in the UK isn't in dispute - he's not in the UK. He (by his own admission, again) chose not to live in the UK or similar specifically because he didn't want to live under UK law - he wanted to live somewhere corrupt where the authorities could be paid off. It seems he was either very wrong, or very right, but not as powerful as he thought. I have limited sympathy in both cases because, again, he specifically CHOSE to live in a country BECAUSE its not under the very laws that wouldn't allow him to be detained. The law in the UK is completely irrelevant.

Here's the judges reasoning;

"Last month a judge extended their detention until the end of February, citing “the capacity … of the defendants to exercise permanent psychological control over their victims, including by resorting to constant acts of violence”."

But you'll hear people saying" they've given no reason for holding them". They have. It's right there. What they're accused of is also clear. As is their flight risk. And again, UK law just isn't relevant.

Now... It is, apparently, in violation of international human rights law to hold someone for longer than 30 days without charges being made official in court (at which point people can be detained/denied bail until trial if they're considered a flight risk or a risk to the public). So the Romanian authorities may be in violation of Human Rights law but - again - that means relatively little unless its unusual for the Romanian authorities to be in violation of that law. Which I doubt it is. Again... There's a reason Tate chose to live there.

Imagine choosing to live in a country because of its reputation for not doing law by the book, getting arrested, and then your followers announcing a grand conspiracy because....... The country isn't doing law by the book. Come onnn. There's been talk for years of them either withdrawing from or being booted from the EU because they fail to comply with EU law. This isn't special treatment for Andrew Tate .

Not least, and it takes a special kind of delusion to believe that Tate is being framed and is not a violent misogynist and a sex trafficker. He's been openly selling himself as that for years. Hint: he describes himself as a literal pimp, frequently. Pimping is sex trafficking!

"Can't believe I've been arrested on suspicion of robbing a bank, this is a conspiracy!" cried Billy Bankrobber into his sacks of stolen cash.

As a standalone concept, is detention for 2 months (at least) without formal charge a questionable thing? Absolutely. But that doesn't mean the charges proposed aren't valid, and it also doesn't mean that this is particularly unusual.

Hes a joint UK/US citizen so the government's of either country could make a diplomatic case for his release. I don't see that happening, do you? "Please let the pimp out of jail, those women consented to be trafficked and yeah I've seen the videos of physical abuse but Alf off TiBB says they probably enjoy being abused."

[Alf]

Originally Posted by Soldier Boy

The idea that they're being held without charges is being used to in other words say "they can't even say what they're holding them for" - this is false, they have said what they're holding them for, they have said what the charges will be if/when charges go ahead, and they have said why they've been detained while the investigation is ongoing.

That it would be illegal in the UK isn't in dispute - he's not in the UK. He (by his own admission, again) chose not to live in the UK or similar specifically because he didn't want to live under UK law - he wanted to live somewhere corrupt where the authorities could be paid off. It seems he was either very wrong, or very right, but not as powerful as he thought. I have limited sympathy in both cases because, again, he specifically CHOSE to live in a country BECAUSE its not under the very laws that wouldn't allow him to be detained. The law in the UK is completely irrelevant.

Here's the judges reasoning;

"Last month a judge extended their detention until the end of February, citing “the capacity … of the defendants to exercise permanent psychological control over their victims, including by resorting to constant acts of violence”."

But you'll hear people saying" they've given no reason for holding them". They have. It's right there. What they're accused of is also clear. As is their flight risk. And again, UK law just isn't relevant.

Now... It is, apparently, in violation of international human rights law to hold someone for longer than 30 days without charges being made official in court (at which point people can be detained/denied bail until trial if they're considered a flight risk or a risk to the public). So the Romanian authorities may be in violation of Human Rights law but - again - that means relatively little unless its unusual for the Romanian authorities to be in violation of that law. Which I doubt it is. Again... There's a reason Tate chose to live there.

Imagine choosing to live in a country because of its reputation for not doing law by the book, getting arrested, and then your followers announcing a grand conspiracy because....... The country isn't doing law by the book. Come onnn. There's been talk for years of them either withdrawing from or being booted from the EU because they fail to comply with EU law. This isn't special treatment for Andrew Tate .

Not least, and it takes a special kind of delusion to believe that Tate is being framed and is not a violent misogynist and a sex trafficker. He's been openly selling himself as that for years. Hint: he describes himself as a literal pimp, frequently. Pimping is sex trafficking!

"Can't believe I've been arrested on suspicion of robbing a bank, this is a conspiracy!" cried Billy Bankrobber into his sacks of stolen cash.

As a standalone concept, is detention for 2 months (at least) without formal charge a questionable thing? Absolutely. But that doesn't mean the charges proposed aren't valid, and it also doesn't mean that this is particularly unusual.

Hes a joint UK/US citizen so the government's of either country could make a diplomatic case for his release. I don't see that happening, do you? "Please let the pimp out of jail, those women consented to be trafficked and yeah I've seen the videos of physical abuse but Alf off TiBB says they probably enjoy being abused."

Where did I say "they probably enjoy being abused?"

I said that it's possible that there was consent, the same as that it's possible there wasn't consent. The videos I posted of the so called victims saying that they were not victims is the only piece of evidence we have so far to answer that one.

Stop lying to try and win the argument, just because you were wrong and your selfish pride will not allow you to admit that.

[thesheriff443]

My take on this is,
The girls that the police claim are victims have made statements to say they are not but the police are not accepting this and are still try to get them to change their mind and get evidence from them or others to get a case so they can be charged

[MTVN]

Originally Posted by Soldier Boy

The idea that they're being held without charges is being used to in other words say "they can't even say what they're holding them for" - this is false, they have said what they're holding them for, they have said what the charges will be if/when charges go ahead, and they have said why they've been detained while the investigation is ongoing.

That it would be illegal in the UK isn't in dispute - he's not in the UK. He (by his own admission, again) chose not to live in the UK or similar specifically because he didn't want to live under UK law - he wanted to live somewhere corrupt where the authorities could be paid off. It seems he was either very wrong, or very right, but not as powerful as he thought. I have limited sympathy in both cases because, again, he specifically CHOSE to live in a country BECAUSE its not under the very laws that wouldn't allow him to be detained. The law in the UK is completely irrelevant.

Here's the judges reasoning;

"Last month a judge extended their detention until the end of February, citing “the capacity … of the defendants to exercise permanent psychological control over their victims, including by resorting to constant acts of violence”."

But you'll hear people saying" they've given no reason for holding them". They have. It's right there. What they're accused of is also clear. As is their flight risk. And again, UK law just isn't relevant.

Now... It is, apparently, in violation of international human rights law to hold someone for longer than 30 days without charges being made official in court (at which point people can be detained/denied bail until trial if they're considered a flight risk or a risk to the public). So the Romanian authorities may be in violation of Human Rights law but - again - that means relatively little unless its unusual for the Romanian authorities to be in violation of that law. Which I doubt it is. Again... There's a reason Tate chose to live there.

Imagine choosing to live in a country because of its reputation for not doing law by the book, getting arrested, and then your followers announcing a grand conspiracy because....... The country isn't doing law by the book. Come onnn. There's been talk for years of them either withdrawing from or being booted from the EU because they fail to comply with EU law. This isn't special treatment for Andrew Tate .

Not least, and it takes a special kind of delusion to believe that Tate is being framed and is not a violent misogynist and a sex trafficker. He's been openly selling himself as that for years. Hint: he describes himself as a literal pimp, frequently. Pimping is sex trafficking!

"Can't believe I've been arrested on suspicion of robbing a bank, this is a conspiracy!" cried Billy Bankrobber into his sacks of stolen cash.

As a standalone concept, is detention for 2 months (at least) without formal charge a questionable thing? Absolutely. But that doesn't mean the charges proposed aren't valid, and it also doesn't mean that this is particularly unusual.

Hes a joint UK/US citizen so the government's of either country could make a diplomatic case for his release. I don't see that happening, do you? "Please let the pimp out of jail, those women consented to be trafficked and yeah I've seen the videos of physical abuse but Alf off TiBB says they probably enjoy being abused."

Yeah I appreciate where you're coming from. I only compared to the UK to show how shambolic this investigation is and how unacceptable treating suspects like this is by most international standards.

I get that it's the Tate's so people have limited sympathy but then there's plenty of groups out there that spend most of their time fighting measures like this no matter how unsavoury the suspects are. There's a reason that limits on detention without charge apply universally regardless of the crime committed.

My prediction is that they won't get enough evidence to charge them with the most serious crimes and they'll have to settle for some minor charges instead

[Alf]

Originally Posted by MTVN

Yeah I appreciate where you're coming from. I only compared to the UK to show how shambolic this investigation is and how unacceptable treating suspects like this is by most international standards.

I get that it's the Tate's so people have limited sympathy but then there's plenty of groups out there that spend most of their time fighting measures like this no matter how unsavoury the suspects are. There's a reason that limits on detention without charge apply universally regardless of the crime committed.

My prediction is that they won't get enough evidence to charge them with the most serious crimes and they'll have to settle for some minor charges instead

If they don't get new evidence then they'll just make up a new law. They want rid of the Tate's or any one else who is a threat to their power. This isn't Romania's doing, this is the deep state controlling this.

It also sends a message out to anyone else who wants to be a threat to their power, that they will lock you up by any means.

[user104658]

It's difficult to balance out morally because I think the threat that the Tates pose to women, and to the minds of vulnerable or just young men, goes way beyond their direct influence. Truly dangerous individuals peddling a truly dangerous ideology.

They pose absolutely no threat at all to "the deep state" or to systems of power which is why the idea that it's those influences that are trying to get rid of them is especially ridiculous. Can only possibly be believed by those who only encountered the Tates and the false narrative around them in the last 3 to 6 months and have no real idea of what they were all about before that (i.e. aggressive and violent misogyny).

[Alf]

Originally Posted by Soldier Boy

It's difficult to balance out morally because I think the threat that the Tates pose to women, and to the minds of vulnerable or just young men, goes way beyond their direct influence. Truly dangerous individuals peddling a truly dangerous ideology.

They pose absolutely no threat at all to "the deep state" or to systems of power which is why the idea that it's those influences that are trying to get rid of them is especially ridiculous. Can only possibly be believed by those who only encountered the Tates and the false narrative around them in the last 3 to 6 months and have no real idea of what they were all about before that (i.e. aggressive and violent misogyny).

Have you not noticed the huge push in society to feminise men. With huge pushes with the LGBT movement and the trans movement and the message that masculinity is toxic?

Feminine men are going to be much easier to control that masculine men and that's what it's all about. So when people like the Tate's come along with their message of promoting masculinity and get a large following, then they're a threat to the agenda.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Alf

Have you not noticed the huge push in society to feminise men. With huge pushes with the LGBT movement and the trans movement and the message that masculinity is toxic?

Feminine men are going to be much easier to control that masculine men and that's what it's all about. So when people like the Tate's come along with their message of promoting masculinity and get a large following, then they're a threat to the agenda.

Real men don't coerce, control and beat up women Alf. If you think that's an example of a good man then you need to give your head a wobble. He's an angry little coward, an abuser, pathetic. He has incel written all over him. He's just done a good job of selling his brand of bitterness to other sad lonely young blokes off the Internet and then used that money and influence to get I to the heads of young boys and to manipulate women for real. Anyone looking up to Andrew Tate as their model of healthy masculinity is in real, real trouble. They're never going to make his money - it's a pyramid scheme so only the ones at the top will make anything. So all you're left with is a bunch of entitled, muscle-bound, whiney young men who are still getting nowhere in life and nowhere with women, getting angrier by the day. Because what attracts women to Tate is his money and his cars. Not his "masculinity", not his attitude, not his gormless overbite.