[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Cherie

I haven't seen or heard anyone on this forum or outside it have any problem with unaccompanied minors being taken in, the crux really is that they are being left behind and the number agreed in is bring filled up by older refugees as the people processing take the easy route and fill the places available with anyone who vaguely fits the term refugee

'Shouldn't we be questioning JUST WHY children as young as 8 ARE 'unaccompanied'? As well as JUST HOW they managed to travel many hundreds of miles through strange and foreign countries to get to Calais?

Shouldn't we be examining whether this is yet another 'ploy' by economic migrants who are so desperate to secure entry into the UK they simply hand their children over to uncle Ahmed to take them with him on his long trek to Calais, knowing that we British WILL eventually take in the children, thereby setting a legal precedence for them to later be also allowed entry because of 'family ties'. (Uncle Ahmed will obviously have to keep 'Stum' about his relationship though for this to be viable)'


There you go, there's one.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

I don't think that ANY of us are in ANY doubt that a lot of these 'children' ARE in fact NOT children, so what doubt are you referring to?

Incidentally, MOST jokes and humour are based on misfortune or tragic occurrences.

No one is mocking any genuine refugees - only the ludicrousness of a totally incredible, unbelievable, situation where some 'WET' bleedin' heart UK 'official bodies' are EXPECTING us to SWALLOW the B.S. that some of these '30 somethings' are 'children'.

If they are children they must have been birthed at 17 years of age.

There you go my point is proven here, so well done the Express the Mail and the Times... The seed of doubt has mutated and any empathy for the plight of these refugee children is subverted.

[Kizzy]

Hundreds of refugee children are to be brought from Calais to Britain in the next three weeks but one in four councils in England, including Theresa May’s own, says they cannot take responsibility for them.

As the French clearance operation got under way at the Calais refugee camp, the home secretary told MPs that 800 children claiming family links with Britain have been interviewed by Home Office officials in the camp in the past week.

Amber Rudd said that almost 200 children have been brought to Britain in recent days, including 60 girls under the Dubs amendment, which is designed to protect vulnerable child refugees across Europe. But 38 councils out of 156 in England have so far refused to take part in resettling those who have arrived.

Shameful.

[Crimson Dynamo]

No links make your posts meaningless

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

No links make your posts meaningless

Ok... they are updates from the link I have already posted on the thread but that's fine.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

There you go my point is proven here, so well done the Express the Mail and the Times... The seed of doubt has mutated and any empathy for the plight of these refugee children is subverted.

It is ludicrous to always claim 'orchestrated media propaganda' whenever their is reportage which does not suit one's own ideologies - totally, wholly ridiculous.

The very real, wholly irrefutable facts ARE, that not only are SOME devious ADULT, MALE, 'would-be' illegal immigrants, posing as children to gain access into the UK, but also that SOME wet, bleeding heart idiotic UK do-gooders are DECEITFULLY complicit in the fraud too.

I would also advise you that THERE IS NOT ONE TRUE REFUGEE IN THOSE CAMPS so your post is misleading on more than just the Media propaganda claim.

As Peter Hitchens so correctly pointed out, EVEN a GENUINE refugee ceases to be that once he has reached a safe country which affords sanctuary.

If that EX-refugee then decides to spurn that offer of sanctuary and travel through other safe countries to reach a specific destination, he then becomes a plain old simple MIGRANT.

Those residents of the Calais camps were there SOLELY because they ELECTED to be there.

Of course, very few of them are not, were not, and have NEVER been genuine refugees anyway, just plain old simple would be illegal immigrants into the UK for ECONOMIC reasons.

And of course, very few of them are not, were not, and have NEVER been WOMEN and CHILDREN - the majority of them since 1999 being fit, able-bodied MALES in the 17 to 38 year old age bracket.

They CHOSE to avoid APPLYING FOR ASYLUM in any of the many Official Processing Centres in EVERY safe country which most of them passed through to get to Calais, because they KNEW that they were NOT genuine refugees and that applying and being refused Asylum or Refugee status would mean the OFFICIAL end of their UK residential ambitions.

By the way, this post of mine is not about any genuine unaccompanied children, of whom I have already stated SHOULD be rescued by us from those camps and given a new home within the UK.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

There you go my point is proven here, so well done the Express the Mail and the Times... The seed of doubt has mutated and any empathy for the plight of these refugee children is subverted.

There are NO refugees there

How hard is this to understand?

[Northern Monkey]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

It is extremely welcome to see vulnerable children who have been trapped in Calais reaching safe haven in the UK over the last week. But, as night falls in Calais tonight, we are deeply concerned for the fate of hundreds of children who remain and who do not know where they will sleep tonight and have no information on what tomorrow will bring.

It is unacceptable that the French operation to demolish the camp, which has been planned for weeks, now risks putting vulnerable children at greater risk.

Disgraceful.

I agree with this.Those kids should've been out well before the camp was dismantled.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Should it have been 100% their responsibility?

It's on French soil so they will have control over logistics, I can't imagine them handing that over to the UK seeing as the camp residents are being bussed to various Areas in France. The UK are handling the movement of minors who have links to the UK but the French suspended that for 24 hours so they are in control

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Cherie

It's on French soil so they will have control over logistics, I can't imagine them handing that over to the UK seeing as the camp residents are being bussed to various Areas in France. The UK are handling the movement of minors who have links to the UK but the French suspended that for 24 hours so they are in control

Our govt has been aware of the situation, the timescales involved and the dubs amendment.. they were, as always woefully ill prepared but what did we expect? #brexit

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

There are NO refugees there

How hard is this to understand?

ok

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

It is ludicrous to always claim 'orchestrated media propaganda' whenever their is reportage which does not suit one's own ideologies - totally, wholly ridiculous.

The very real, wholly irrefutable facts ARE, that not only are SOME devious ADULT, MALE, 'would-be' illegal immigrants, posing as children to gain access into the UK, but also that SOME wet, bleeding heart idiotic UK do-gooders are DECEITFULLY complicit in the fraud too.

I would also advise you that THERE IS NOT ONE TRUE REFUGEE IN THOSE CAMPS so your post is misleading on more than just the Media propaganda claim.

As Peter Hitchens so correctly pointed out, EVEN a GENUINE refugee ceases to be that once he has reached a safe country which affords sanctuary.

If that EX-refugee then decides to spurn that offer of sanctuary and travel through other safe countries to reach a specific destination, he then becomes a plain old simple MIGRANT.

Those residents of the Calais camps were there SOLELY because they ELECTED to be there.

Of course, very few of them are not, were not, and have NEVER been genuine refugees anyway, just plain old simple would be illegal immigrants into the UK for ECONOMIC reasons.

And of course, very few of them are not, were not, and have NEVER been WOMEN and CHILDREN - the majority of them since 1999 being fit, able-bodied MALES in the 17 to 38 year old age bracket.

They CHOSE to avoid APPLYING FOR ASYLUM in any of the many Official Processing Centres in EVERY safe country which most of them passed through to get to Calais, because they KNEW that they were NOT genuine refugees and that applying and being refused Asylum or Refugee status would mean the OFFICIAL end of their UK residential ambitions.

By the way, this post of mine is not about any genuine unaccompanied children, of whom I have already stated SHOULD be rescued by us from those camps and given a new home within the UK.

As the subject of the post you quoted is indeed child refugees it's refreshing to see you in total agreement here.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

As the subject of the post you quoted is indeed child refugees it's refreshing to see you in total agreement here.

Thank you, but it was necessary to point out the immense - but seemingly continually overlooked - difference, between the words; 'Refugee' and 'Illegal Economic Immigrant', and 'Genuine Child' and 'Skanking Adult Pretend Child'.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

Thank you, but it was necessary to point out the immense - but seemingly continually overlooked - difference, between the words; 'Refugee' and 'Illegal Economic Immigrant', and 'Genuine Child' and 'Skanking Adult Pretend Child'.

You have no proof of either accusation, only skewed news reports.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Our govt has been aware of the situation, the timescales involved and the dubs amendment.. they were, as always woefully ill prepared but what did we expect? #brexit

Yes but the key here is the camp is not in the UK

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Cherie

Yes but the key here is the camp is not in the UK

Never let the facts get in the way of a good ole anti-UK non-argument.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

You have no proof of either accusation, only skewed news reports.

That's untrue I've heard a few radio interviews now where the agencies involved have been asked directly about the ages of the "children" brought over, where the question has been dodged and finally answered with 14 to 18 bracket, yet we are still told there are kids as young as 8 in the camp but seemlngly its okay to overlook an 8 year old so an 18 year old can get on the bus

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

You have no proof of either accusation, only skewed news reports.

There is no debate without objectivity, rationality, and a degree of impartiality. Bye.

[Ammi]

..this became a humanitarian crisis a long time ago..it's obvious that buck passing of responsibility hasn't solved anything/responsibility has no bearing on humanitarian../politics and bureaucracy have no bearing on humanitarian..it should never have come to this, not ever...there should not still be anyone there who is a 'problem'...these are human beings and whatever their reasons for being there or what age they are...it's just a sad indication for me off of desensitisation of human beings whose lives can't be related to as being able to imagine anything they've gone through or striven for...

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Ammi

..this became a humanitarian crisis a long time ago..it's obvious that buck passing of responsibility hasn't solved anything/responsibility has no bearing on humanitarian../politics and bureaucracy have no bearing on humanitarian..it should never have come to this, not ever...there should not still be anyone there who is a 'problem'...these are human beings and whatever their reasons for being there or what age they are...it's just a sad indication for me off of desensitisation of human beings whose lives can't be related to as being able to imagine anything they've gone through or striven for...

I'm asking why the youngest unaccompanied minors were not helped first, what's wrong with asking that question Ammi? I'm sickened to hear that kids as young as 8 were still in camp yesterday aren't you? Stop telling me I'm desensitised because I'm not! I want the agencies involved to do their jobs properly and for help to be given to the most vulnerable first, some of the jungle residents say how dangerous the camp had become is this not a cause for concern for the most vulnerable in the camp?

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Cherie

I'm asking why the youngest unaccompanied minors were not helped first, what's wrong with asking that question Ammi? I'm sickened to hear that kids as young as 8 were still in camp yesterday aren't you? Stop telling me I'm desensitised because I'm not! I want the agencies involved to do their jobs properly and for help to be given to the most vulnerable first, some of the jungle residents say how dangerous the camp had become is this not a cause for concern for the most vulnerable in the camp?

..I'm not telling you that you're desensitised Cherie...I'm saying that desensitisation of human beings is a huge factor here (in my opinion..)..because if it wasn't this would not have been allowed to be the crisis that it has become and there would be no questions to be asked....

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Ammi

..I'm not telling you that you're desensitised Cherie...I'm saying that desensitisation of human beings is a huge factor here (in my opinion..)..because if it wasn't this would not have been allowed to be the crisis that it has become and there would be no questions to be asked....

Oh right my apologies, unfortunately I think another camp will spring up again somewhere else, there is already a camp with about a 1000 people in it a few miles away, I think many jungle residents were more than happy to leave yesterday as it had become very dangerous, unless these smaller camps are addressed now we will be doing the same thing again in 5 years time, that is if the world as we know it is still in place

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Cherie

I'm asking why the youngest unaccompanied minors were not helped first, what's wrong with asking that question Ammi? I'm sickened to hear that kids as young as 8 were still in camp yesterday aren't you? Stop telling me I'm desensitised because I'm not! I want the agencies involved to do their jobs properly and for help to be given to the most vulnerable first, some of the jungle residents say how dangerous the camp had become is this not a cause for concern for the most vulnerable in the camp?

There is NOTHING wrong at all in you posing that very legitimate question Cherie, nothing at all.

Once again, some of us who are merely pointing out the truth behind some very ludicrous claims, are being very unfairly manoeuvred into a position of having to defend our opinions, because we are being accused or made to feel that we are inhumane, cold, dispassionate, and callous, by not conforming to the views of certain others.

None of us can state any more clearly or with such repetition that the vulnerable and wholly innocent little children SHOULD be rescued from those camps, and you personally could not state more clearly and passionately that it should be those same little children who should be the priority.

The rest of them - the adults - should NOT be take in by the UK for a variety of reasons:

a) They ARE adults.
b) They are NOT in any type of danger.
c) They have other perfectly safe and valid - and quite frankly generous and
charitable - ALTERNATIVE options.
d) Bringing them into the UK makes a total nonsense of the quite reasonable
'Immigrant Processing Procedures' which are already in place in the
numerous countries which these people have passed through - besides
France - which these people have deliberately spurned.
e) Bringing them into the UK is wholly unfair to those far less calculating and
far less devious immigrants who HAVE gone to such processing centres.
f) Bringing them into the UK is rewarding criminality and punishing
lawfulness.

In addition, where is the 'Humanitarian' crisis in the Calais Camps anyway????

The greatest cry on here from certain quarters is the 'Media propaganda' and bias, in selectively editing news articles on the issue, to show the Calais immigrants in an unfavourable light, but NOTHING could be more poppycock.

The truth is that such media articles are edited to distort the truth about the camps and its residents, to show immigrants in a GOOD light and to grossly exaggerate conditions at the camps for adults - camps which those adult immigrants elected to build of theIr own free will in the first place rather than accept the many alternatives offered to them - BECAUSE Calais is very, very, strategically THE prime location for gaining access to the UK ILLEGALLY.

The truth is, that not ONCE has TV or newspapers EVER mentioned the Nightclubs, Restaurants, Shops, Gymnasiums, and other facilities at that camp - until the Sun did so recently.

Yes - they are temporarily constructed and comparatively spartan, but they WERE there, AND they WERE well patronised by the residents of the camp.

But let us ignore those facts, just as we ignore the fact that 80% of the residents of these camps were young, able bodied, MALE ECONOMIC MIGRANTS NOT refugees.

Like we ignore the fact, that most of the above sported expensive training shoes and casual wear, watches and latest mobile phones.

Like we can ignore the fact that it is irrefutably proven that some of these able-bodied, fit, young MALE Economic Migrants and would-be ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS into the UK, are posing as children to secure unfair ACCESS into the UK.

And just as we can ignore the fact, that the calculating scumbags are doing so AT THE EXPENSE OF GENUINE LITTLE CHILDREN.

Let's ignore EVERYTHING which does not fit in and support any 'bleedin' heart' views that there is a humanitarian crisis at Calais, and that 'Big Old Bad Britain' is full of dispassionate, inhumane, xenophobes and racists who DO NOT CARE.

Strip away the Sun hyperbole from the article below, and there still remains a very large solid kernel of truth which paints a very different picture of the 'Calais Camp' than that portryed in the media:


URBAN JUNGLE

Restaurants, boxing clubs and booming businesses… we go inside Calais’ sprawling migrant city. The Sun on Sunday visits the infamous camp as its population is set to reach 10,000.


LAKESIDE dining, gym sessions and massages are usually associated with luxury spas rather than refugee camps.

But the Jungle in Calais — housing some of the world’s most destitute migrants — is anything but a typical shelter.


Aerial view of a makeshift camp as containers (rear) are put into place to house migrants living in what is known as the "Jungle", a sprawling camp in Calais REUTERS

The Jungle in Calais has transformed into a city within a city

The infamous camp is full of economic activity, including restaurants, shops, bars and nightclubs

In the past year it has transformed into a city within a city, complete with its own shops, cafes – even nightclubs.

It is now so full of life and economic activity that it makes the average British high street look a little bleak.

The Sun on Sunday visited the infamous camp as aid groups warned that its population is set to reach 10,000 for the first time.

Despite the French government’s efforts to close down the Jungle, many still queue in a bid to sneak in to the UK.



Boxing club trainer Arsala Khan says: ‘It’s always busy here. People want to stay in shape and have something to do’



Sun reporter Graeme Culliford plays pool in the camp



Residents of the camp can even take part in a football tournament

When I visited two years ago, the illegal settlement close to the Calais ferry port was little more than a bunch of tents and open fires on rubbish-strewn wasteland.

But now it is a sophisticated hub that makes the British Army’s Camp Bastion in Afghanistan look small.

While there are bigger official refugee camps in Jordan and Turkey, this unauthorised sprawl filled with migrants from Africa and the Middle East is thought to be the largest of its kind in Europe.

Most of the time it is safe, but things can turn nasty — I saw a man stabbed in the stomach the other day
With so many people waiting to hide inside the next truck that can take them to the promised land of Britain, criminal gangs and business entrepreneurs have seized the opportunity to make money.Ali Shan, 25, is the owner of the Three Idiots restaurant on a road known as Afghanistan Street. He spent Ł5,000 of his own money setting it up.

But by serving Ł2 curries to up to 100 customers a day, he has made more than enough to justify his investment.



Shops selling food, clothes, cigarettes and more do brisk



Our reporter gets some groceries at a stall

The charity Help Refugees claims there are more than 9,000 migrants in the Jungle, with the number set to top 10,000 within days
Ali, from Pakistan, said: “It was a risk, but it has definitely been worth it. I could see there were lots of people here who wanted to buy good food so I spent my savings to buy everything we needed.

“The Jungle has changed so much since I got here — it just keeps growing. Life is better than it used to be and I think even more people will arrive in the years to come.”

One of Ali’s main rivals is the Sami restaurant just down the road.

It has the advantage of impressive lakeside views and customers can dine alfresco as they enjoy the summer weather.



At Sami’s restaurant, our reporter enjoyed a feast of chicken, salad, chips and bread for Ł3.50

Around 1,500 migrants sleep in shipping containers while the rest live in densely packed tents, caravans and shacks

A man uses the washing facilities at the camp

For around Ł3.50, I got a feast of chicken, salad and chips served with naan bread by Ahmed, a white-uniformed waiter.

The 25-year-old, from Afghanistan, said business had been good until a recent crackdown by French police.

In broken English he said: “We spend 120 to 140 euros (Ł100 to Ł120) on food each week that we buy from Lidl. Our dishes all cost two euros so we have to sell a lot to make any money.

I am tired of trying to get to London so I think I’ll stay here
“This is a nice restaurant but the police hassle us as we do not have a licence to serve food.”

Barber Jan Mohammed, 21, is working nearby. He told us he does not charge for the haircuts or head massages his people give.


He said it was something to “keep me busy” while he waited to get to London.

But he added: “Now I am tired of trying so I think I will stay here.”


Jan Mohammed started a barbershop in the camp to keep him busy while he waited to get to London


Mohammed does not charge for the haircuts or head massages his people give
Arsala Khan, 27, the trainer at the Calais Jungle Boxing Club, has also decided to stay in France.

He said: “It’s always busy here. People want to stay in shape and have something to do.”

French cops were making their presence felt when we visited the Jungle last week.

They marched in large numbers down roads with names such as David Cameron Street.

But the many businesses selling everything from clothes to cigarettes were still doing brisk trade.

The ever-expanding Jungle has become an eyesore that infuriates native Calais residents and embarrasses French authorities.


Schools offer English lessons and regular organised events
A student participates in an English workshop



Graffiti at the entrance to the camp reads ‘London calling’ and ‘Free Syria’

The charity Help Refugees claims there are more than 9,000 migrants there, with the number set to top 10,000 within days.

But as the population booms, knife attacks, robberies and sexual assaults are a constant danger. Drinking and drug taking is endemic and at night a Wild West atmosphere takes hold.

Meanwhile, there are rumours of Muslim extremists holding meetings in darkened rooms. And there is great concern for the estimated 700 children who live alone in the rat-infested camp without any parents.

The camp has suffered E.coli outbreaks, and wildfires and disease are a constant risk.

Despite the police presence, charities trying to improve conditions, schools offering English lessons and regular organised events, walking around is unsettling.


The Jungle has become an eyesore that infuriates native Calais residents
French cops make their presence felt

Around 1,500 migrants sleep in shipping containers placed here by the government.

But the rest live in densely packed tents, caravans and shacks — some of them sporting fridges and satellite TVs.

Many folk are friendly. But there is a definite edge in the air as people question your intentions and warn you not to take any pictures.We encountered deep suspicion that we were working for the police.
Many of the estimated 72 business owners in the camp refused to talk, accusing us of being “spies”.

And a British volunteer told us: “Most of the time it is safe, but things can turn nasty — I saw a man stabbed in the stomach the other day.

“There is a spot in the centre of town where people meet if they have disagreements to sort out.

“There is money to be made selling drugs and criminal gangs are eager to cash in.”




[Crimson Dynamo]

How does a 10 year old from Afghanistan get to calais with no parents?

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

How does a 10 year old from Afghanistan get to calais with no parents?

With his Uncle Ahmed to look after him, who will of course, not reveal any relationship to the authorities.

Once in the UK, the child's parents back home have an automatic rights to come here under the 'family ties' rule.

Once they are here, their relatives back home have also the same rights.

etc etc. etc.