[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

A good try by you again Kirk to twist words and jump in at me again too, I actually said talking about myself,I saw myself as a human being,then added just one of many of the whole human race.

I said no one else was not a member of the human race but there you go.

Odd how you too, have chosen to join in and jump on my post while I was only agreeing with another who you totally ignored the comment of.
I am not playing your games Kirk.
I have sent my post to the mods myself.

I responded to a post on a forum Joey, and was not; 'jumping in at you again' - whatever that is meant to imply - nor was I 'playing games'.

Jet made the following post:

"Reading through these threads on the immigrants situation it's pretty clear than Isis haven't just killed people, their activities have also killed our humanity and compassion. I rarely post in these types of threads, as I would be banned within a few days..."

I believe that the meaning of Jet's post is very clear; she is disgusted and angry, that, in her opinion, some members have expressed little sympathy and compassion for the plight of the unfortunate people living in the camps at Calais, and she gives the former as reasons why she does not post very often in 'these type of threads' because she fears that she would quickly get banned - probably for becoming embroiled in 'personal' argument with those members she refers to - members who do not hold the same opinions as she does.

Jet does not say that certain members should NOT hold such opinions - just intimates that she is disgusted and angry that they do - which is her prerogative.

You open your response post to Jet with:

"Well said Jet and I mean that 100%"

Which can only mean that you too, feel exactly the same way.

However, where Jet does not expound on what she is saying, you actually continue Joey:

"I have been off for a few weeks really with family matters.
Serious debates was an area I loved to not only participate in but read too.
Not so now.

My only contribution now to this and likely some abuse will flow from this statement,comes from how I am, think and feel."

Thus, you clearly link the members who are perceived as dispassionate and unsympathetic to the plight of those camped at Calais, to the demise of Serious Debates and the reason why you no longer love to participate in, or even read, Serious Debates.

Whether in the subtext or otherwise, this is a CLEAR and UNEQUIVOCAL statement from you, that ANYONE who does NOT HOLD your views on Illegal Immigrants and the Calais Camps, are contemptible and to blame for impairing the quality of debate on Serious Debates.

What is more, you stamp those same members of being more than likely of subjecting you to abuse simply for posting your views, but this is not the case Joey, because only two members - BOTS and myself - have responded to you, and neither of us have abused you, we have just stated facts and challenged some of your contentions.

I have found that it is the members who do not conform to the 'general consensus of opinion' here on Tibb, that are more likely to suffer irrational abuse for posting their views.

Incidentally Joey – the statements of ALL member's contributions to Serious Debates also 'comes from how they are, think and feel' – or ought to.

“I hope I never change how I have come to think and feel as to migrants,refugees and anything that involves people.

I see myself as a human being, just one of many of the whole human race.

Whether fleeing persecution, war,famine and /or fleeing for their lives,I see all doing so as other equal human beings.
Reaching out and helping in their dire need is what I would always hope I would try to do and what those with power would do.”

Nothing at all to object to in the above Joey, and I would hazard a guess that everyone on Tibb feels exactly the same way.

However, it is the next from you – when taking in the context of the thread title and subject matter, in addition to everything else which you have written – which I find arrogantly presumptuous, very judgemental and very very unfair to those of us on here who have a different viewpoint on the Calais camps and Illegal Immigration in general, because you are clearly indicting us of (adversely) judging the Calais camp immigrants, deriding them, and condemning them:

“Adult or child,if other humans have any need or fear at all, hope and security is what they should be able to find, not judgement, derision and condemnation.”

You cannot claim any 'Moral High Ground' Joey and look down upon the rest of us just because we do not extend the 'Welcome No Questions Asked Mat' to ALL immigrants – Economic especially.

As BOTS said; none of us would seek to turn away GENUINE refugees who are in need of a safe haven and succour, and it is offensive to me anyway, if not the others who share my views, that because we regard the 'refugee' status of the majority of those who are camped at Calais as 'suspect', we are being accused of the above traits.

It is totally illogical, and absolutely dangerously unrealistic, to want to let anyone into this country – unscreened – just because they state a DESIRE to enter the UK, even if their plight may be relatively desperate, when they are, under the law – Illegal Immigrants.

Extend that non-logic to other areas of life;

The drug addict living in a squat who WANTS to shoplift £200 worth of goods from the local ASDA to sell to fund his heroin habit.

He is desperate and destitute and living in abject squalor.

Should we allow him to shoplift and SATISFY his DEMANDS and DESIRES purely because of his plight?

(Coincidentally, the plight of both the hypothetical drug addict, and the people in the Calais camps are self-inflicted)

There are Laws and a system (as flawed and ineffectual as it is) concerning Immigrants and Refugees, and those people in the Calais camps have not only been classified as non-refugees and potential Illegal Immigrants, but - as Cherie has pointed out - for every Calais camp immigrant who is allowed into the UK, it is at the cost of a GENUINE refugee.

I am not – of course – referring to unaccompanied children, who are but a minuscule minority, and who SHOULD be taken in by us even it means making an exceptional case for them and flouting our own laws.