[Kazanne]

Kids and dogs have different roles in life though,so I think you do have to treat them differently, kids need to be taught the rights and wrongs of life and their punishments will be greater, I mean dogs wont be half as much work as a child, we have to use common sense with both. Children are a totally different ball game and very demanding.

[GoldHeart]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

By hitting them?

Lets see how this goes parmnion

Playfully on the nose maybe to let them know they've done something wrong. But it's usually your tone of voice and proper training which is how you discipline your dog .

I don't agree with hitting them,if anything that'll probably cause the dog to lash out or you'll upset it .

The only way a dog should be hit or attacked is through self defense

[montblanc]

not at all

[Wizard.]

Well I shout at her say if she pees on the carpet I lock her in the bedroom but I have given her a little tap now and then nothing too hard but dogs can get over excited and sometimes it’s not appropriate

[Redway]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

It's legit worrying that some people think hitting a "big dog" is a good idea . Keep it away from children because all you're doing is creating a big aggressive dog. The reason it doesn't bite back at the person doing the hitting is that it thinks that person is above them in the pecking order. And it thinks that the thing to do to anyone below them in the pecking order, is hurt them to assert themself.

In other words; it's going to lash out at other animals, other humans, and especially kids. Well done.

Despite people thinking that dogs are "super smart" - they are not. What they are is easily trained, because they are NOT all that smart, dog psychology is really very basic and all you have to do to assert yourself as your dog's pack leader is act like it. Stand over it, use a strong voice, always GIVE it food (never allow it to TAKE food from you) et voila. No hitting required.

Dogs are susceptible to pavlovian response; action = reward. They have no concept of negative consequence. They have literally no idea why they're being hit, and don't attach the "punishment" to the specific act that you're punishing them for, they just think you're randomly hitting them to gain submission.

I don’t think concepts like submission apply to a dog.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Kazanne

Kids and dogs have different roles in life though,so I think you do have to treat them differently, kids need to be taught the rights and wrongs of life and their punishments will be greater, I mean dogs wont be half as much work as a child, we have to use common sense with both. Children are a totally different ball game and very demanding.

The question was by hitting them though

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Redway

I don’t think concepts like submission apply to a dog.

Of course they do, maybe even more so than in humans infact

[chuff me dizzy]

Originally Posted by parmnion

Id like to watch that chuffle as my nephew sees it as a career move cause his pops kept alsations all his life..any idea what it was called?

No sorry it was a couple of years ago now x

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Redway

I don’t think concepts like submission apply to a dog.

Submission is the CORE concept of training a dog . They're pack animals, they follow a pack hierarchy and submit to those who are higher in the pecking order. That's pretty much dog psychology in a nutshell. All of the human characteristics that humans put on them (e.g. "My dog loves me!" / "My dog misses me when I'm not around!") are just expressions of that. Dogs neither love nor miss humans, they just know they're ****ed without their pack leaders, so they suck up to them, and get anxious when they're "missing".

[user104658]

That happy crazy excitement when you come home? That's not "I'm so happy to see you!", that's "OH THANK GOD I was worried that I might starve!"

[Twosugars]

Originally Posted by Redway

I don’t think concepts like submission apply to a dog.

so submission and dominance are alien concepts to pack animals like dogs?
submission/dominance postures and behaviours they display from puppyhood throughout their lives are what in your view?

[Twosugars]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

That happy crazy excitement when you come home? That's not "I'm so happy to see you!", that's "OH THANK GOD I was worried that I might starve!"

a tad outdated view
latest research (there's been a great rediscovery of dogs in science) suggest they do actually feel love

[Twosugars]

of course they see us as a prized resource to be protected, but that's not all, they also love us

[Redway]

https://www.psychologytoday.com/intl...lly-experience

According to that study dogs’ emotions stop just after love (the 2-year-old human equivalent).

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Redway

https://www.psychologytoday.com/intl...lly-experience

According to that study dogs’ emotions stop just after love (the 2-year-old human equivalent).

Submission isn't an emotion though, it's a behaviour

[Redway]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Submission isn't an emotion though, it's a behaviour

I was talking about love there though.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Redway

I was talking about love there though.

right, well submission as others have said apply to dogs in a big way, ever heard of Top Dog or Alpha dog?

[Redway]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

right, well submission as others have said apply to dogs in a big way, ever heard of Top Dog or Alpha dog?

I was being a little tongue-in-cheek when I made that comment about submission. It obviously applies to them on a biological level in a big way but there’s just something about the way TS worded submission. In the emotional human sense but I knew what he meant. Only the wording sounded funny that’s all.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Redway

I was being a little tongue-in-cheek when I made that comment about submission. It obviously applies to them on a biological level in a big way but there’s just something about the way TS worded submission. In the emotional human sense but I knew what he meant. Only the wording sounded funny that’s all.

sounded exactly like it should be meant to me but ok....

[Redway]

LMAO. Are dog matters really that deep?

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Redway

LMAO. Are dog matters really that deep?

No?

[AnnieK]

Originally Posted by Redway

LMAO. Are dog matters really that deep?

Classic submission post

[Twosugars]

Originally Posted by Redway

https://www.psychologytoday.com/intl...lly-experience

According to that study dogs’ emotions stop just after love (the 2-year-old human equivalent).

very good summary

thanks, Redway!

...your dog can still feel love for you, and contentment when you are around, and aren't these the emotions we truly value?

[Twosugars]

the MRI experiments with oxytocin release in the brain confirm that dogs have the same reaction to their owners like owners have to them, love

[caprimint]

It's possible to show authority without hitting them (the same as it is with kids)