[Nicky91]

ok fair enough @Niamh.

but it's still sort of advantage over the other women, however should you make her ineligible to compete just because of having some disorder to your body she can't help having, no, because she can't compete in the men's events either



sorry its just making me too stressed out

[Beso]

Paralympic Games. Maybe they would be best competing there. In their own categories.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Nicky91

ok fair enough @Niamh.

but it's still sort of advantage over the other women, however should you make her ineligible to compete just because of having some disorder to your body she can't help having, no, because she can't compete in the men's events either



sorry its just making me too stressed out

Lots of people can't compete in the Olympics Nicky for lots of different reasons, safety for the other competitors should be the very top priority here. If these two have gone through male puberty they shouldn't be able to compete in the female category

[Glenn.]

Originally Posted by parmnion

Paralympic Games. Maybe they would be best competing there. In their own categories.

[Nicky91]

as if any female boxer looks any feminine with all honesty

i mean Lucia Rijker, in my nation back in the day was considered most dangerous woman in the world, even won a oscar in a film alongside Clint Eastwood about boxing, Million Dollar Baby


as if Ms Rijker looked any feminine


but honestly, in a sport like boxing, regardless of gender, you just need to have a good amount of muscle, masculine figure to have a chance at doing well

[Liam-]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

They're not trans Nicky, they have a DSD, I'm not sure anyone was ever disputing that?

The media headlines and viral tweets calling her transgender would disagree

[Zizu]

Originally Posted by parmnion

Paralympic Games. Maybe they would be best competing there. In their own categories.

Great idea … because as soon one of them seriously hurts an opponent there will be valls to ban boxing and UFC for good


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[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by Soldier Boy

I wouldn't say I necessarily agree, more that there aren't many "up and comers" at all in Hollywood or the entertainment industry in general at the moment. The industry is in a very strange place at the moment.

That's a fair point.

And tbf having said what I'd said in my previous post, Shogun did have Mariko and Fallout did have Lucy MacLean (as the Show always loved to refer to her as) so I suppose there are still some attractive people in Hollywood that haven't been super famous in the industry for multiple decades.

And I do agree with you that the industry is lacking any breakthrough talent at the moment, where someone is making it big off one major role, and then landing a huge acting career off of it.

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by Soldier Boy

I would say it's more normal if anything, attraction to people isn't just about what they look like and with reality telly you get more of an idea of "who someone is" as an actual person not just them physically.

Have to say I'm pretty much 100% like that with attraction in general, if you show me a picture of someone and say "is this person attractive" my usual thought is "I don't know I haven't seen them say or do anything". Likewise, with scripted media I can tell you if I find a character attractive - I have no idea if I think the actor is attractive though, unless I've seen them give interviews, etc... and sometimes the answer is yes to the character, no to the actor, or vice versa.

I think there's a name for it somewhere on the LGBTQ identity spectrum but I don't remember what that is .

Personality can definitely help with attraction I do agree with you on that.

But personally for me there has to be some level of physical attraction there too.

[Zizu]

Originally Posted by Mystic Mock

Personality can definitely help with attraction I do agree with you on that.

But personally for me there has to be some level of physical attraction there too.

Its a complex issue..

I am a sucker for a pretty face and regularly fall immediately in love with a gorgeous face online or on holiday or whatever


I jest .. not in love but certainly something happens that muddles my brain for a few moments


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[The Slim Reaper]

I thought the "what is a woman" question was really easy to answer. Interesting to see, in real time, some people realising that might not be the case. Hmmm

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by Zizu

Its a complex issue..

I am a sucker for a pretty face and regularly fall immediately in love with a gorgeous face online or on holiday or whatever


I jest .. not in love but certainly something happens that muddles my brain for a few moments


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I get that looks alone isn't necessarily going to lead to a good romantic relationship.

But I do believe that there has to be some physical attraction there, because I doubt that most people hookup with each other thinking that their partner looks physically repulsive.

[Livia]

Well this conversation has moved on swiftly from women having to fight biological men.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by The Slim Reaper

I thought the "what is a woman" question was really easy to answer. Interesting to see, in real time, some people realising that might not be the case. Hmmm

It's still not all that complicated in terms of the trans debate. Intersex conditions exist but are extremely rare, and if anything, I find it problematic, sad & very unfortunate that a genuinely intersex individual, it seems, may have been caught up in the politics of gender identity. When it has little if anything to do with gender identity in the modern context whatsoever. Intersex is not trans.

[Livia]

What is a man?

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Livia

What is a man?

Sheriff!

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by Livia

Well this conversation has moved on swiftly from women having to fight biological men.

I think Khelif is boxing today isn't she?

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Mystic Mock

I think Khelif is boxing today isn't she?

I have no interest in it any more. I won't watch unfairness at this level.

[Niamh.]

Kellie Harrington is fighting for Gold for Ireland tonight, thankfully she's in a different weight class to all the controversy

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Kellie Harrington is fighting for Gold for Ireland tonight, thankfully she's in a different weight class to all the controversy

Good luck to her. Thank God she's not affected.

[Zizu]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Kellie Harrington is fighting for Gold for Ireland tonight, thankfully she's in a different weight class to all the controversy

Yes her opponent seems like a nice girl


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[The Slim Reaper]

Originally Posted by Soldier Boy

It's still not all that complicated in terms of the trans debate. Intersex conditions exist but are extremely rare, and if anything, I find it problematic, sad & very unfortunate that a genuinely intersex individual, it seems, may have been caught up in the politics of gender identity. When it has little if anything to do with gender identity in the modern context whatsoever. Intersex is not trans.

Remind me, how has this person been caught up in the politics of gender identity?

[user104658]

Originally Posted by The Slim Reaper

Remind me, how has this person been caught up in the politics of gender identity?

In my opinion?

1) Because people are (in general) not all that capable of nuanced thinking and can't conceptualise that "sports and intersex conditions" and "sports and transgenderism" are similar, but entirely separate, discussions.

2) The issues around transwomen in women's sports should have been sensibly and reasonably examined before now -- long before now -- and decisions made on the grounds of research and safety, not what "feels right and seems fair".

3) That has not been able to happen because of the public discourse around gender ideology and gender politics. It's not a safe arena for study, and it's almost impossible to filter out the good faith, unbiased results from the flood of agenda-driven chaff from both angles.

4) Thus there is no room for any actual discussion around intersex conditions and equality/safety in sports because of 1).

[The Slim Reaper]

Originally Posted by Soldier Boy

In my opinion?

1) Because people are (in general) not all that capable of nuanced thinking and can't conceptualise that "sports and intersex conditions" and "sports and transgenderism" are similar, but entirely separate, discussions.

2) The issues around transwomen in women's sports should have been sensibly and reasonably examined before now -- long before now -- and decisions made on the grounds of research and safety, not what "feels right and seems fair".

3) That has not been able to happen because of the public discourse around gender ideology and gender politics. It's not a safe arena for study, and it's almost impossible to filter out the good faith, unbiased results from the flood of agenda-driven chaff from both angles.

4) Thus there is no room for any actual discussion around intersex conditions and equality/safety in sports because of 1).

My mistake, I thought it was because of a massive pile on from the same childrens authors, tv stations, and social media personalities as always.

In relation to 3, I was pleased to see that the BMA have recently picked up the cass report for a proper medical/scientific review.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by The Slim Reaper

My mistake, I thought it was because of a massive pile on from the same childrens authors, tv stations, and social media personalities as always.

In relation to 3, I was pleased to see that the BMA have recently picked up the cass report for a proper medical/scientific review.

As with the riots thread the mechanism and the reason isn't the same thing - and again I'd use the metaphor of seeing a flood and blaming the rain. Where we're at is a disaster but the path to getting here is an awful lot more complicated than "people are just bigots who don't like trans". And that's not even to say that a lot of those people don't exist. Sort of like... woodlice exist... and they're going to start crawling out from under your skirting board if you don't keep the floorboards dry, and they'll keep coming.

I'm not feeling very charitable about people after this weekend apparently .