[arista]

Originally Posted by Enid

To blame the parents every time is very ignorant. These kids are mentally ill and need help.

From the News Reports
we can see how one of them had a Dad
that was Evil.

[NettoSuperstar!]

Originally Posted by Enid

To blame the parents every time is very ignorant. These kids are mentally ill and need help.

research proves that kids who commit the most terrible crimes like this have very chaotic and abusive homelives, the evidence is there! Plenty of kids are born with similar brain abnormalities but dont commit such terrible crimes

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by InOne

No Whip em' and hang em' members I see.

I do think that they should be locked up for life, to protect people and make sure they can't do it again but there must be something mentally wrong with them.

[arista]

The 11 year old & his brother
have been given a 5 Year sentance.


SkyNews Live.

[NettoSuperstar!]

Originally Posted by arista

The 11 year old & his brother
have been given a 5 Year sentance.


SkyNews Live.

Your joking? Is that it?...need longer than that to sort that pair out

[arista]

Originally Posted by NettoSuperstar!

Your joking? Is that it?...need longer than that to sort that pair out

Confirmed 5 years each.

But at least they are from their Toxic Family.

[NettoSuperstar!]

Originally Posted by arista

Confirmed 5 years each.

But at least they are from their Toxic Family.

Well true, the mother should never have been allowed to keep them kids in the first place! I hope that means they will actually serve five in a secure unit not half the sentence in and half on licence like adults would

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by arista

Confirmed 5 years each.

But at least they are from their Toxic Family.

That's madness!!! Releasing them after 5 years is just putting innocent people in danger

[30stone]

Damn that is just disgusting for them to have no conscience for them to only stop because they were tired.

Thats just messed up in so many ways.

[arista]

Originally Posted by Niamhxo

That's madness!!! Releasing them after 5 years is just putting innocent people in danger

No they will be checked
Its going to go the way Dezzy said.

[InOne]

Originally Posted by NettoSuperstar!

Well I disagree, whilst you do have some good points elsewhere...Children like this can and do get rehabilitated, they caught them early and that is key. If they were born in to a nice family that loved and cared for them properly they wouldnt have done what they did, utter fact. Children like this have suffered high levels of trauma and abuse in their very young and chaotic lives (No excuse for what theyve done, but it is what it is)

Well if they are Psychopaths it is a fact they are wired different. But yes, as they have been caught early, treatment could be possible, like who knows what else they got upto?? But we will see I guess, the difference in enviroment might help. But say if they were like 16 or something they most likely would have already been to far gone. Who knows they might respond brilliantly, as I said before I don't think they're too intelligent, so doubt they'd be able to play games with the docs

[InOne]

Originally Posted by Enid

To blame the parents every time is very ignorant. These kids are mentally ill and need help.

Not really, obviously they are mentally ill but the mother definitely had an impact, it's not just the parents it's a collection of factors, but the parents certianly contributed.

[InOne]

Originally Posted by arista

Confirmed 5 years each.

But at least they are from their Toxic Family.

They will serve their 5 years and get carted off to Broadmoor I bet. It happens all the time, prisoners thinking they'll be released and then getting put in a mental hospital for the rest of their life.

[InOne]

Originally Posted by Niamhxo

I do think that they should be locked up for life, to protect people and make sure they can't do it again but there must be something mentally wrong with them.

I meant to post that on the paedo thread lol

[NettoSuperstar!]

Originally Posted by InOne

Well if they are Psychopaths it is a fact they are wired different. But yes, as they have been caught early, treatment could be possible, like who knows what else they got upto?? But we will see I guess, the difference in enviroment might help. But say if they were like 16 or something they most likely would have already been to far gone. Who knows they might respond brilliantly, as I said before I don't think they're too intelligent, so doubt they'd be able to play games with the docs

Yeh but theyre too young to be classed as psychopaths, plenty of kids are "wired different" but wont grow up to be psychopaths if they grow up in a stable and caring environment

[InOne]

Originally Posted by NettoSuperstar!

Yeh but theyre too young to be classed as psychopaths, plenty of kids are "wired different" but wont grow up to be psychopaths if they grow up in a stable and caring environment

Well, do you think Psychopathy should be diagnosed at a younger age? And no matter what the enviroment, Psychopaths are born not made, their upbrining has an affect obviously, maybe more so than others.

[NettoSuperstar!]

Originally Posted by InOne

Well, do you think Psychopathy should be diagnosed at a younger age? And no matter what the enviroment, Psychopaths are born not made, their upbrining has an affect obviously, maybe more so than others.

Theyre not born, they may be born with the potential but without the abusive, chaotic and traumatic childhoods/ or lack of any discipline at all they wouldnt end up as psychopaths...and if you start sticking labels on children then theres no hope. I do think there are behavioral problems and signs that someone could end up that way at an early age and those kids need to be worked with to prevent it happening, thats the way the govt is going which is a good sign, tackling problem children in schools and working with their families is on the increase now...Im looking at getting into that work now myself as it happens

[InOne]

Originally Posted by NettoSuperstar!

Theyre not born, they may be born with the potential but without the abusive, chaotic and traumatic childhoods they wouldnt end up as psychopaths...and if you start sticking labels on children then theres no hope. I do think there are behavioral problems and signs that someone could end up that way at an early age and those kids need to be worked with to prevent it happening, thats the way the govt is going which is a good sign, tackling problem children in schools and working with their families is on the increase now...Im looking at getting into that work now myself as it happens

Yes and no. Say like a lesser intelligent Psychopath might be violent, get caught and end up in prison for the rest of their life. While the more intelligent ones are more likely to go cause havoc in the business world. That is why is so ruthless at the high end of it. I agree labels are not good, and should not be used likely. But this is an extreme case, where clearly they didn't see the suffering, it's a rarity but sometimes you have to diagnose them early I think. Without dignosing you might be concentrating on all the worng things and end up not helping them at all.

[NettoSuperstar!]

Originally Posted by InOne

Yes and no. Say like a lesser intelligent Psychopath might be violent, get caught and end up in prison for the rest of their life. While the more intelligent ones are more likely to go cause havoc in the business world. That is why is so ruthless at the high end of it. I agree labels are not good, and should not be used likely. But this is an extreme case, where clearly they didn't see the suffering, it's a rarity but sometimes you have to diagnose them early I think. Without dignosing you might be concentrating on all the worng things and end up not helping them at all.

I dont believe in putting labels on people, tackle the behaviour but theres nothing to gain from saying a child is a psychopath and there is no way of accurately predicting if they will end up that way at all so it would damaging to even slap that label on. tackle the behaviour, tackle the poor parenting and if neccessary remove children from the poor environment. If a child is persistantly truanting, getting into trouble, has a poor record of behaviour at school then theres clear signs that things are amiss and they need help. Concentrating on the behaviour/symptoms/causes is the only way to deal with it, diagnoses are just umbrella terms and can be unhelpful when it comes to treatment. Everyone is different and needs treating in different ways

[InOne]

Originally Posted by NettoSuperstar!

I dont believe in putting labels on people, tackle the behaviour but theres nothing to gain from saying a child is a psychopath and there is no way of accurately predicting if they will end up that way at all so it would damaging to even slap that label on. tackle the behaviour, tackle the poor parenting and if neccessary remove children from the poor environment. If a child is persistantly truanting, getting into trouble, has a poor record of behaviour at school then theres clear signs that things are amiss and they need help. Concentrating on the behaviour/symptoms/causes is the only way to deal with it, diagnoses are just umbrella terms and can be unhelpful when it comes to treatment. Everyone is different and needs treating in different ways

I guess so, but don't you think it could be a bit hit and miss treatment then? I guess that what mental health is like anyway really. It would be nice if these two are not too far gone, but giving the nature of the crime i'm not too sure. Hopefully the system will do them good, but like someone said earlier, it will be like with the kids who killed James Bulger, we will probably never even know when they are released or where they are.

[bbfan1991]

Shocking case, such a shame for their victims and their families but for the attackers they are obviously very disturbed and the upbringing excuses only last for so long... they chose to commit that act so must take the consequences. 5 years is a joke the sentences these days are but it's going to take ages to rehabilitate them. When eventually let out which obviously could be longer than their sentence always the risk of re-offending but they are sick and very cold people to do such a thing .

[NettoSuperstar!]

Originally Posted by InOne

I guess so, but don't you think it could be a bit hit and miss treatment then? I guess that what mental health is like anyway really. It would be nice if these two are not too far gone, but giving the nature of the crime i'm not too sure. Hopefully the system will do them good, but like someone said earlier, it will be like with the kids who killed James Bulger, we will probably never even know when they are released or where they are.

Oh they'll be given new identities I reckon. Yeh haha it is pretty hit and miss but then I guess humans are too complex creatures for it to be that simple. treating specific individual things/behaviours/symptoms has got to better than treating a label thats used to describe a wide range of people with differing problems and symptoms...btw have you seen Boy A? its supposed to be loosely based on the bulger boys and kids like this pair, worth a watch!

[InOne]

Originally Posted by NettoSuperstar!

Oh they'll be given new identities I reckon. Yeh haha it is pretty hit and miss but then I guess humans are too complex creatures for it to be that simple. treating specific individual things/behaviours/symptoms has got to better than treating a label thats used to describe a wide range of people with differing problems and symptoms...btw have you seen Boy A? its supposed to be loosely based on the bulger boys and kids like this pair, worth a watch!

I saw some of it, i'm hoping it might be on youtube or 4od or something??? But yeah, apprently the mother of Bulger got told where Venables was, but too overcome by anger to even move. God knows what the parents of the victims think of the boys, but you've heard cases of people doing time in prison then a whole other stretch in Broadmoor right? I think that could be a possibility too.

[Tom4784]

They should have got longer since chances are they're sentence will be reduced anyway, Not enough time at all to make them safe for the public.

[NettoSuperstar!]

Originally Posted by InOne

I saw some of it, i'm hoping it might be on youtube or 4od or something??? But yeah, apprently the mother of Bulger got told where Venables was, but too overcome by anger to even move. God knows what the parents of the victims think of the boys, but you've heard cases of people doing time in prison then a whole other stretch in Broadmoor right? I think that could be a possibility too.

Well it depends how far gone they are, personally I think theyre too young to end up that bad unless theres an additonal risk of developing a psychotic illness later on, dont know what the family history is there. A lot of people in prison have got mental health problems of differing kinds and some prefer life inside to out thats for sure. Its hard to put yourself in the parents place cos the boys that did it were so young too, Im sure I'd be angry for a long while, I'd like to think I'd be able to forgive them if they truly felt bad for what they'd done though, but who knows in reality