[NettoSuperstar!]

Originally Posted by InOne

Yes and no. Say like a lesser intelligent Psychopath might be violent, get caught and end up in prison for the rest of their life. While the more intelligent ones are more likely to go cause havoc in the business world. That is why is so ruthless at the high end of it. I agree labels are not good, and should not be used likely. But this is an extreme case, where clearly they didn't see the suffering, it's a rarity but sometimes you have to diagnose them early I think. Without dignosing you might be concentrating on all the worng things and end up not helping them at all.

I dont believe in putting labels on people, tackle the behaviour but theres nothing to gain from saying a child is a psychopath and there is no way of accurately predicting if they will end up that way at all so it would damaging to even slap that label on. tackle the behaviour, tackle the poor parenting and if neccessary remove children from the poor environment. If a child is persistantly truanting, getting into trouble, has a poor record of behaviour at school then theres clear signs that things are amiss and they need help. Concentrating on the behaviour/symptoms/causes is the only way to deal with it, diagnoses are just umbrella terms and can be unhelpful when it comes to treatment. Everyone is different and needs treating in different ways

[InOne]

Originally Posted by NettoSuperstar!

I dont believe in putting labels on people, tackle the behaviour but theres nothing to gain from saying a child is a psychopath and there is no way of accurately predicting if they will end up that way at all so it would damaging to even slap that label on. tackle the behaviour, tackle the poor parenting and if neccessary remove children from the poor environment. If a child is persistantly truanting, getting into trouble, has a poor record of behaviour at school then theres clear signs that things are amiss and they need help. Concentrating on the behaviour/symptoms/causes is the only way to deal with it, diagnoses are just umbrella terms and can be unhelpful when it comes to treatment. Everyone is different and needs treating in different ways

I guess so, but don't you think it could be a bit hit and miss treatment then? I guess that what mental health is like anyway really. It would be nice if these two are not too far gone, but giving the nature of the crime i'm not too sure. Hopefully the system will do them good, but like someone said earlier, it will be like with the kids who killed James Bulger, we will probably never even know when they are released or where they are.

[bbfan1991]

Shocking case, such a shame for their victims and their families but for the attackers they are obviously very disturbed and the upbringing excuses only last for so long... they chose to commit that act so must take the consequences. 5 years is a joke the sentences these days are but it's going to take ages to rehabilitate them. When eventually let out which obviously could be longer than their sentence always the risk of re-offending but they are sick and very cold people to do such a thing .

[NettoSuperstar!]

Originally Posted by InOne

I guess so, but don't you think it could be a bit hit and miss treatment then? I guess that what mental health is like anyway really. It would be nice if these two are not too far gone, but giving the nature of the crime i'm not too sure. Hopefully the system will do them good, but like someone said earlier, it will be like with the kids who killed James Bulger, we will probably never even know when they are released or where they are.

Oh they'll be given new identities I reckon. Yeh haha it is pretty hit and miss but then I guess humans are too complex creatures for it to be that simple. treating specific individual things/behaviours/symptoms has got to better than treating a label thats used to describe a wide range of people with differing problems and symptoms...btw have you seen Boy A? its supposed to be loosely based on the bulger boys and kids like this pair, worth a watch!

[InOne]

Originally Posted by NettoSuperstar!

Oh they'll be given new identities I reckon. Yeh haha it is pretty hit and miss but then I guess humans are too complex creatures for it to be that simple. treating specific individual things/behaviours/symptoms has got to better than treating a label thats used to describe a wide range of people with differing problems and symptoms...btw have you seen Boy A? its supposed to be loosely based on the bulger boys and kids like this pair, worth a watch!

I saw some of it, i'm hoping it might be on youtube or 4od or something??? But yeah, apprently the mother of Bulger got told where Venables was, but too overcome by anger to even move. God knows what the parents of the victims think of the boys, but you've heard cases of people doing time in prison then a whole other stretch in Broadmoor right? I think that could be a possibility too.

[NettoSuperstar!]

Originally Posted by InOne

I saw some of it, i'm hoping it might be on youtube or 4od or something??? But yeah, apprently the mother of Bulger got told where Venables was, but too overcome by anger to even move. God knows what the parents of the victims think of the boys, but you've heard cases of people doing time in prison then a whole other stretch in Broadmoor right? I think that could be a possibility too.

Well it depends how far gone they are, personally I think theyre too young to end up that bad unless theres an additonal risk of developing a psychotic illness later on, dont know what the family history is there. A lot of people in prison have got mental health problems of differing kinds and some prefer life inside to out thats for sure. Its hard to put yourself in the parents place cos the boys that did it were so young too, Im sure I'd be angry for a long while, I'd like to think I'd be able to forgive them if they truly felt bad for what they'd done though, but who knows in reality

[InOne]

Originally Posted by NettoSuperstar!

Well it depends how far gone they are, personally I think theyre too young to end up that bad unless theres an additonal risk of developing a psychotic illness later on, dont know what the family history is there. A lot of people in prison have got mental health problems of differing kinds and some prefer live inside to out thats for sure. Its hard to put yourself in the parents place cos the boys that did it were so young too, Im sure I'd be angry for a long while, I'd like to think I'd be able to forgive them if they truly felt bad for what they'd done though, but who knows in reality

Yeah, there is also the psychological trauma of the vicitims as well. That is going to take some time to heal.

[NettoSuperstar!]

Originally Posted by InOne

Yeah, there is also the psychological trauma of the vicitims as well. That is going to take some time to heal.

God yeh hope theyre getting enough help what happened to them was truly truly horrific

[sooty]

The word "bored" is bothering me.

It may be too late for these two brothers, but how about where poor young children could go to after school these days?

They do not have computer at home, or
No youth centre near they live or can not afford to join a club.

I hve been wondering whenever if I see a group of very young children gathering at corner doing nothing after school.
If they could go to sports center, music or dancing places without any charge.

I would not think they could turn to monster like these brothers but these ordinary children might need some help before they develop feeling of anger, frustration or dissapointment to turnt to nasty actions.

(I am not saying all cildren in a group at corner.
Some of them may be simply waiting for their friedns or any other simple reasons)

[arista]

Originally Posted by sooty

The word "bored" is bothering me.

It may be too late for these two brothers, but how about where poor young children could go to after school these days?

They do not have computer at home, or
No youth centre near they live or can not afford to join a club.

I hve been wondering whenever if I see a group of very young children gathering at corner doing nothing after school.
If they could go to sports center, music or dancing places without any charge.

I would not think they could turn to monster like these brothers but these ordinary children might need some help before they develop feeling of anger, frustration or dissapointment to turnt to nasty actions.

(I am not saying all cildren in a group at corner.
Some of them may be simply waiting for their friedns or any other simple reasons)

13 years ago
New Labour said they would stop all this.
They Failed.

[NettoSuperstar!]

Originally Posted by arista

13 years ago
New Labour said they would stop all this.
They Failed.

You do realise it is not a simple problem to solve and their is no quick fix solution, theyve put in place measures to tackle the problem, family liaison workers in schools, police social workers and schools working together to monitor and improve anti social behaviour...its just the start and it will take time to show results.

[arista]

Originally Posted by NettoSuperstar!

You do realise it is not a simple problem to solve and their is no quick fix solution, theyve put in place measures to tackle the problem, family liaison workers in schools, police social workers and schools working together to monitor and improve anti social behaviour...its just the start and it will take time to show results.

Yes and New Labour had 13 years
but Failed.

[NettoSuperstar!]

Originally Posted by arista

Yes and New Labour had 13 years
but Failed.

You really think under the Tories it would be better! lol...you have much to learn

[informer]

Originally Posted by sooty

The word "bored" is bothering me.

It may be too late for these two brothers, but how about where poor young children could go to after school these days?

They do not have computer at home, or
No youth centre near they live or can not afford to join a club.

I hve been wondering whenever if I see a group of very young children gathering at corner doing nothing after school.
If they could go to sports center, music or dancing places without any charge.

I would not think they could turn to monster like these brothers but these ordinary children might need some help before they develop feeling of anger, frustration or dissapointment to turnt to nasty actions.

(I am not saying all cildren in a group at corner.
Some of them may be simply waiting for their friedns or any other simple reasons)

your reply is 'bothering ' me..

me and my 3 brothers had very little in terms on toys or games growing up but we were extremely grateful for what we had...

just because i was bored i didnt go and almost kill someone....

they were evil with no sense of morals in their life at all...

religion needs to be brought back in this country

[sooty]

Originally Posted by informer

me and my 3 brothers had very little in terms on toys or games growing up but we were extremely grateful for what we had..

I respect you and your family.