[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by MissKittyFantastico

But by killing someone else's child you are then putting the same grief and suffering that you are going through onto someone else who has done nothing wrong. I just couldn't live with that and wouldn't wish that onto another innocent human being.

I honestly wouldn't care.

[MissKittyFantastico]

Originally Posted by setanta

That's it really. Couldn't do it either. And what are you teaching your other children and how will they view you after the event? Nah, couldn't do it.

That's the thing, I know my initial response would be to want to kill anyone who harmed my own, but would I be able to live with having taken another human life and have my kids look at me knowing I'm for all intents and purposes a murderer? No I couldn't. It would haunt me for the rest of my life.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by angus58

I, too, am impressed by jedward fever's grasp of points made and his ability to form his own opinions about such important issues at such a young age. I find his attitude and comments far more mature than those of some on here.

It's an older post but I took exception to this, His posts spoke of murdering & torturing people, saying that he'd stab criminals if he had the chance and he admitted double standards and bias. We should be encouraging him to be consistant and to think about consequence as well as actions, not applauding him for being hysterical.

Terrible message to send out, he's entitled to his opinion but we shouldn't be praising him for how he came across.

[setanta]

Originally Posted by MissKittyFantastico

That's the thing, I know my initial response would be to want to kill anyone who harmed my own, but would I be able to live with having taken another human life and have my kids look at me knowing I'm for all intents and purposes a murderer? No I couldn't. It would haunt me for the rest of my life.

Talk about emotional damage! They'd be headcases... well, there's a good chance that it would effect them in some ways, no question about it.

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

Again you're belittling our opinions by saying that we don't know what we're on about because we're not parents. Can you actrually try and debate the points instead of writing the same thing over and over? Granted you feel strongly about this but you can't just sit there telling people they can't understand without partaking in the debate yourself.

How can you possibly know how you would feel if you don't have children?I said some people are living in Disney land and they are, if they believe that they could be so forgiving if God forbid someone harmed their child,I am not belittling anyone and you know that,I am posting my opinion which you don't like or agree with,so are now picking up on things i have said ,wrongly!! as you did when you posted i said i wanted people killed,I never said that at all.You cannot know a parents love until you are one,it's common sense I would have thought.I do not post the same thing over and over unless i have to keep explaining to people what i have posted,it might help if people read them properly!I do know what you are trying to doand your supposed to be TIBB staff!,LOL,I am allowed to disagree with you and your buddies you know.

[MissKittyFantastico]

Originally Posted by Niamhxo

I honestly wouldn't care.

But you just said to Dezzy that you don't know how you'd feel if it was your child that had committed the crime and were to be executed. By killing the one that has done the crime to your own is bringing the same grief and suffering onto their family as if they'd been executed so it's basically the same thing, if that makes sense.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by MissKittyFantastico

That's the thing, I know my initial response would be to want to kill anyone who harmed my own, but would I be able to live with having taken another human life and have my kids look at me knowing I'm for all intents and purposes a murderer? No I couldn't. It would haunt me for the rest of my life.

well, I ask myself this question - If say my brother was raped and brutally murdered and my mother killed the murderer would I think she was wrong and look at her as a criminal and I would answer No, I would think she was completely justified.

[MissKittyFantastico]

Originally Posted by kazanne

How can you possibly know how you would feel if you don't have children?I said some people are living in Disney land and they are, if they believe that they could be so forgiving if God forbid someone harmed their child,I am not belittling anyone and you know that,I am posting my opinion which you don't like or agree with,so are now picking up on things i have said ,wrongly!! as you did when you posted i said i wanted people killed,I never said that at all.You cannot know a parents love until you are one,it's common sense I would have thought.I do not post the same thing over and over unless i have to keep explaining to people what i have posted,it might help if people read them properly!I do know what you are trying to doand your supposed to be TIBB staff!,LOL,I am allowed to disagree with you and your buddies you know.

Noone that I've seen has said that they would FORGIVE the person that committed that kind of crime though, not that I have seen anyway. They are just saying, as I am, that although the initial reaction would undoubtedly be to want to exact revenge, that is isn't the answer. I don't think anyone is in Disney Land and saying that it's okay and fine and dandy and let them get away with it, they should be locked up for the forseeable, for life in some cases, but taking away their life doesn't solve anything in the long run.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by MissKittyFantastico

But you just said to Dezzy that you don't know how you'd feel if it was your child that had committed the crime and were to be executed. By killing the one that has done the crime to your own is bringing the same grief and suffering onto their family as if they'd been executed so it's basically the same thing, if that makes sense.

I said I didn't know how I would feel if my child has committed the crime yes but I think I know how I would feel if they were on the receiving end of it.

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

It's an older post but I took exception to this, His posts spoke of murdering & torturing people, saying that he'd stab criminals if he had the chance and he admitted double standards and bias. We should be encouraging him to be consistant and to think about consequence as well as actions, not applauding him for being hysterical.

Terrible message to send out, he's entitled to his opinion but we shouldn't be praising him for how he came across.

Jedward is harmless,he just gets angry as most of us do with crimes like this,the lad would no more hurt anyone than you would,he wasn't hysterical,he just cares about childrens welfare,more than a criminals welfare as some of us do.people use these phrases everyday,most don't carry them through.

[MissKittyFantastico]

Originally Posted by Niamhxo

well, I ask myself this question - If say my brother was raped and brutally murdered and my mother killed the murderer would I think she was wrong and look at her as a criminal and I would answer No, I would think she was completely justified.

Of course you wouldn't because she is your mother, but would she be able to live with it and never think about the fact that she has taken someone else's life? Can we sit here and say that it wouldn't affect her mentally and emotionally? No I honestly don't think we can.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by MissKittyFantastico

Of course you wouldn't because she is your mother, but would she be able to live with it and never think about the fact that she has taken someone else's life? Can we sit here and say that it wouldn't affect her mentally and emotionally? No I honestly don't think we can.

I couldn't possibly tell you how another person would feel (my mother or not!) I can only tell you how I think I would feel. I understand that you don't feel the same way but we're all different.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by kazanne

How can you possibly know how you would feel if you don't have children?I said some people are living in Disney land and they are, if they believe that they could be so forgiving if God forbid someone harmed their child,I am not belittling anyone and you know that,I am posting my opinion which you don't like or agree with,so are now picking up on things i have said ,wrongly!! as you did when you posted i said i wanted people killed,I never said that at all.You cannot know a parents love until you are one,it's common sense I would have thought.I do not post the same thing over and over unless i have to keep explaining to people what i have posted,it might help if people read them properly!I do know what you are trying to doand your supposed to be TIBB staff!,LOL,I am allowed to disagree with you and your buddies you know.

I have sympathy and empathy because my family has suffered a violent loss, I know how I feel in situations like that because I've experienced it. I still feel as though capital punishment isn't the way because why would I want to pass that grief onto someone else? the criminal won't feel pain in the end he'll be dead but their family will be left to pick up the pieces. At least with imprisonment they can't escape what they've done.

I'm letting you have an opinion, I just don't agree with you attempting to silence others by saying they can't have an opinion because they're not parents which is essentiallly what you are doing whether you realise that or not. Have an opinion, but give others that same right. That's all I'm saying. Having children doesn't give you a supreme knowledge of law or ethics so who are you to tell other people that they don't understand when we're debating this. You can't exclude people from that.

Just because I'm a mod doesn't mean I'm not entitled to an opinion, I'm not breaking any rules here, I've not attacked you personally so stop trying to make me out to be the bad guys here, It's just taking away from any arguments you do have as you can't argue a point without getting personal with other members.

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by MissKittyFantastico

Noone that I've seen has said that they would FORGIVE the person that committed that kind of crime though, not that I have seen anyway. They are just saying, as I am, that although the initial reaction would undoubtedly be to want to exact revenge, that is isn't the answer. I don't think anyone is in Disney Land and saying that it's okay and fine and dandy and let them get away with it, they should be locked up for the forseeable, for life in some cases, but taking away their life doesn't solve anything in the long run.

But that is what some people want,the criminals to be locked up,not let out after a couple of years,but this is where it all goes wrong,they get a few years in a cushy jail and then let out, all we are saying we would want revenge,of course we would,but most of us would never follow it through,it is just the expressions people use when angry or disbelieving of certain things,My guess is there wouldn't be so many calling for the death penalty back if prison sentences were for life,as they should be for child murders,I would be happy NOT to kill them but let them stay locked up for the rest of their natural.

[MissKittyFantastico]

Originally Posted by Niamhxo

I couldn't possibly tell you how another person would feel (my mother or not!) I can only tell you how I think I would feel. I understand that you don't feel the same way but we're all different.

Yes I know we're all different, I just honestly feel that when it came to it most people would realise that they couldn't actually live with having taken another person's life. Killing someone changes you forever, you mentioned soldiers killing for their job's, well most of them are never the same again afterwards.

And at the end of the day NOONE knows how they would feel until God forbid something like that actually happens.

[MissKittyFantastico]

Originally Posted by kazanne

But that is what some people want,the criminals to be locked up,not let out after a couple of years,but this is where it all goes wrong,they get a few years in a cushy jail and then let out, all we are saying we would want revenge,of course we would,but most of us would never follow it through,it is just the expressions people use when angry or disbelieving of certain things,My guess is there wouldn't be so many calling for the death penalty back if prison sentences were for life,as they should be for child murders,I would be happy NOT to kill them but let them stay locked up for the rest of their natural.

And I agree with this 100% and that's where the problem lies totally. Life doesnt mean life and prisons are too soft these days.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by MissKittyFantastico

Yes I know we're all different, I just honestly feel that when it came to it most people would realise that they couldn't actually live with having taken another person's life. Killing someone changes you forever, you mentioned soldiers killing for their job's, well most of them are never the same again afterwards.

And at the end of the day NOONE knows how they would feel until God forbid something like that actually happens.

Do you not think that having lost a child a mother would already be changed forever?

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by kazanne

But that is what some people want,the criminals to be locked up,not let out after a couple of years,but this is where it all goes wrong,they get a few years in a cushy jail and then let out, all we are saying we would want revenge,of course we would,but most of us would never follow it through,it is just the expressions people use when angry or disbelieving of certain things,My guess is there wouldn't be so many calling for the death penalty back if prison sentences were for life,as they should be for child murders,I would be happy NOT to kill them but let them stay locked up for the rest of their natural.

Originally Posted by MissKittyFantastico

And I agree with this 100% and that's where the problem lies totally. Life doesnt mean life and prisons are too soft these days.

yes! you see if the murderer was inside of a prison cell for the rest of their miserable life then whether or not to murder them would not even be an issue!

[arista]

Originally Posted by kazanne

I cannot believe Jedward Fever is just 14,what an intelligent young lad he is,he has put to shame some of his fellow posters to shame,with his grasp of humanity and his views on things,I knew he had a good head on him as soon as he announced Ben his fave housemate,lol,so for you Jedward,well done,your parents have done a great job with you,such a shame there are not more teenages around like you,I may not be posting too much now,cant be doing with moderators favouring their 'mates' and childish immature posts,but I have met some great posters here they know who they are:-))Think I will head to the adults forum for a while.

This is the Adult Section.
a few younger ones pop in with spoons.

[MissKittyFantastico]

Originally Posted by Niamhxo

Do you not think that having lost a child a mother would already be changed forever?

Of course they would! I can't even begin to imagine what that would feel like, but I still maintain that taking away another person's life is not going to make you feel any better in the long run. Your own child will still be gone, it won't bring them back, and you'd have to live with the fact that you yourself have extinguished another human life. Maybe some people could live with that, and maybe it would bring some kind of satisfaction knowing that that person couldn't ever hurt anyone else again, but like I said, you'd never be the same again, taking a life is like nothing else, same as having a child and losing a child, it just affects you in different ways.

[MissKittyFantastico]

Originally Posted by Niamhxo

yes! you see if the murderer was inside of a prison cell for the rest of their miserable life then whether or not to murder them would not even be an issue!

And that's what most people are saying, if the punishment fit the crime in this country then we wouldn't even be needing to have this debate. It's the system that's at fault and it is little wonder that people feel the way they do when the law is basically an ass at the moment.

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

I have sympathy and empathy because my family has suffered a violent loss, I know how I feel in situations like that because I've experienced it. I still feel as though capital punishment isn't the way because why would I want to pass that grief onto someone else? the criminal won't feel pain in the end he'll be dead but their family will be left to pick up the pieces. At least with imprisonment they can't escape what they've done.

I'm letting you have an opinion, I just don't agree with you attempting to silence others by saying they can't have an opinion because they're not parents which is essentiallly what you are doing whether you realise that or not. Have an opinion, but give others that same right. That's all I'm saying. Having children doesn't give you a supreme knowledge of law or ethics so who are you to tell other people that they don't understand when we're debating this. You can't exclude people from that.

Just because I'm a mod doesn't mean I'm not entitled to an opinion, I'm not breaking any rules here, I've not attacked you personally so stop trying to make me out to be the bad guys here, It's just taking away from any arguments you do have as you can't argue a point without getting personal with other members.

Who am I trying to silence?I said(once again)you cannot know how you would feel if it was your child if you have none!people can have what opinions they like,I do not profess to have supreme knowledge,but I DO have knowledge,I wish I didn't but I do,so I can and will voice my opinion,i have never said i wanted capital punishment,WHY do you keep quoting things I have never said?Who have I been personal to that havent been personal to me?

[Lee.]

Originally Posted by setanta

It wouldn't help matters really. Have a friend who counsels victims of abuse and the deaths of the offenders never heals their wounds, only adds to them.

I'm telling you, the only way I could live after the death of a child is by knowing that his killer was dead too.. SOunds bad perhaps but I know that's how I feel.

I'm a compassionate person and I'm also very forgiving.. But this scenario is a whole different kettle of fish!

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by MissKittyFantastico

Of course they would! I can't even begin to imagine what that would feel like, but I still maintain that taking away another person's life is not going to make you feel any better in the long run. Your own child will still be gone, it won't bring them back, and you'd have to live with the fact that you yourself have extinguished another human life. Maybe some people could live with that, and maybe it would bring some kind of satisfaction knowing that that person couldn't ever hurt anyone else again, but like I said, you'd never be the same again, taking a life is like nothing else, same as having a child and losing a child, it just affects you in different ways.

I hear what you are saying but you also have to see what you're saying to me and apply it to yourself. I'm guessing about how I may or may not feel about something that hasn't happened but so are you. I assume that you have never taken another persons life so you too are only guessing on how you would feel if you did.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by MissKittyFantastico

And that's what most people are saying, if the punishment fit the crime in this country then we wouldn't even be needing to have this debate. It's the system that's at fault and it is little wonder that people feel the way they do when the law is basically an ass at the moment.

absolutely, same in this country unfortunately. The justice system is crazy, seems like the criminals have more rights than the victims which is so frustrating which is why I understand people taking matters into their own hands.