[Livia]

Originally Posted by lily.

They want the option, just like everyone else has it. They want to be treated the same, not better, not worse, than heterosexual people.

One day we'll look back on the things that happen today, and we'll be astonished at the narrow-mindedness and bigotry that exists.

When I read about the everyday things that happened in the deep south 50 years ago, I can't imagine living in a time where someone was treated differently because of the colour of their skin.

This is exactly the same. It's prejudice. Plain and simple. Eventually society will move past it, and that includes the churches. I hope it's sooner rather than later. I personally couldn't give a **** about anyone's sexual preference and I'm pretty sure nobody gives a **** about mine. It's completely irrelevant.

I have said this before in another thread, but I don't think you were around at that time lily, so sorry if you were and I'm repeating myself...

When I married my husband, we could not marry in a synagogue because he was not a Jew. I didn't feel marginalised, victimised or any less Jewish because of it. I understand that it is a rule of my religion. It didn't occur to me that I should demand an Act of Parliament to force Judaism to change their rules. I do agree that if gay couples want to marry then they should absolutely have the right to marry in a civil ceremony the same as heterosexuals. But I don't agree that religions should be forced to marry them if it goes against their doctrine. If some churches choose to, then that is their own decision and not one that I feel should be made compulsory.

[lily.]

Good point... and no I haven't read that story in another thread.

They probably shouldn't be made to do it by law, but my hope is that in the future they'll want to do it.

Could someone clarify if this is correct... Wasn't there a time when you couldn't marry in a church if you'd already been married then divorced? If so, has that changed with the times?

Perhaps attitudes towards homosexuality within Christianity is something that'll change over time as well.

[Redway]

Originally Posted by lily.

Good point... and no I haven't read that story in another thread.

They probably shouldn't be made to do it by law, but my hope is that in the future they'll want to do it.

Could someone clarify if this is correct... Wasn't there a time when you couldn't marry in a church if you'd already been married then divorced? If so, has that changed with the times?

Perhaps attitudes towards homosexuality within Christianity is something that'll change over time as well.

I don't know the "ins and outs" of that but I believe the Roman Catholic church is still against it.

[Marsh.]

Yes, the RC's are against it.

That's the main reason the Church of England was created by Henry the 8th.

[lily.]

Are the RCs still against it?

[Redway]

Yeah.

CofE isn't exactly all that keen on it either but it tends to be more lenient and sympathise with people going through marital hardships.

Incidentally, I'm pretty sure CofE allows divorce in certain circumstances, whereas the R.C. church is completely against it. Which is quite ironic considering Jesus actually allowed divorce in the case of adultery in the Bible :S

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by lily.

Are the RCs still against it?

Yes, you can't get married in a Catholic Church if you've been divorced. My mom is getting remarried next year and she has to have a civil ceremony

[Stu]

Originally Posted by lily.

With all due respect, this is bollocks.

The whole point of religion is to take from it what you want.. It's not a load of rules set in stone. 100 people could read the bible and get 100 different messages from it. Everyone has their own interpretation of the stuff religion is made of. Some go to church regularly, some never do. Some read the bible regularly, some never do.

Who the hell are you to decide what criteria you must meet in order to be classed 'Christian'.

Not all Christians are raging homophobes.

What I was going to post, pretty much.

The Bible and the entire umbrella of Christian faith - like most religious and spiritual traditions - is a wide and complicated smorgasbord of alternating views held roughly together by a general theme and set of basic conventions.

It's how religions work. They build up, evolve - devolve even - and branch off. This idea that it is only the ultra dogmatic Bible bashers who qualify for their own faith is facetious and absurd. They themselves pick and choose bits of The Bible.

And what of The Bible? It's not all that was written. Plenty was edited out or never included to begin with. Lost gospels and gnostic traditions galore - available at the click of a mouse.

Most peoples spirituality is generally dependent on faith in a cherry picked set of beliefs the adherent has felt best represents their own world view. So what? It's how it works.

I don't believe any of it myself but I certainly know there is no rigidly defined set of rules as to how it should work.

[Kizzy]

The whole point of following a religion was accepting that certain rules and provisos are set in stone? I don't follow a faith as they have these, why would anyone want to.
Changing and 'evolving' can't happen if you wish to follow a faith do so, If you wish to live your life another way fine start a new faith, it worked for henry...,

[MTVN]

Kind of simplistic to say that Henry VIII just set up the CofE so he could get a divorce, there was the small matter of the Reformation that had been sweeping across Europe, Christians all over the West had been breaking with the Catholic Church

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by King Moonracer

Kind of simplistic to say that Henry VIII just set up the CofE so he could get a divorce, there was the small matter of the Reformation that had been sweeping across Europe, Christians all over the West had been breaking with the Catholic Church

So the alternative was to rewrite the bible?

[MTVN]

Who rewrote the Bible?

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by King Moonracer

Who rewrote the Bible?

JK Rowling. Haven't you read it?

[Stu]

Originally Posted by Merry Kizzmas

The whole point of following a religion was accepting that certain rules and provisos are set in stone? I don't follow a faith as they have these, why would anyone want to.

I literally can't understand what you are saying here. Is English your second language?

Originally Posted by Merry Kizzmas

Changing and 'evolving' can't happen

Yes they can.

Originally Posted by Merry Kizzmas

start a new faith

Like this.

There are dozens of well known variations and break offs of the Christian faith and thousands of other lesser known, whacked out variations that put more of less emphasis on various parts of the belief structure. Some schools of thought accept doctrines that others don't.

There is no universally correct path that has 'THIS IS THE ONE' emblazoned in a neon arrow that points in the doors of the church.

Hence I don't know why people at the top of this thread were mentioning that you can't pick and match your faith. Yes you can. It's how virtually every one was formed. There is no right, correct way to interpret the Bible. Only those who believe their way is the right, correct way.

It's impossible to follow down to the bone without running into a gas shower of contradictions.

[Kizzy]

No English is not my second language.
Are you having trouble understanding me, would you like me to dumb down my point?....
If a church won't accept to carry out your marriage find one who will.

[Stu]

Originally Posted by Merry Kizzmas

Would you like me to dumb down my point?....

Heaven forbid. No ... just express it clearer. Sometimes it's like trying to do an eye test through a whiskey bottle.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Stu

Heaven forbid. No ... just express it clearer. Sometimes it's like trying to do an eye test through a whiskey bottle.

Put the bottle down stu it may help.

[Stu]

I would if my coke dealer picked up the phone.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by King Moonracer

Who rewrote the Bible?

King James

[Irene Pearson]

Originally Posted by lily.

Good point... and no I haven't read that story in another thread.

They probably shouldn't be made to do it by law, but my hope is that in the future they'll want to do it.

Could someone clarify if this is correct... Wasn't there a time when you couldn't marry in a church if you'd already been married then divorced? If so, has that changed with the times?

Perhaps attitudes towards homosexuality within Christianity is something that'll change over time as well.

Yes and in the meantime these" Christian" folk get away with blatant discrimination.WHY/

[Irene Pearson]

Originally Posted by Scouse Prezzie

I don't know the "ins and outs" of that but I believe the Roman Catholic church is still against it.

This still applies in many C of E churches and is not allowed in catholic establishments as they do not allow or acknowledge divorce.You would be a bigamist in their eyes. Couldn't make it up could you?

[Kizzy]

Because the bible was written before the discrimination laws?...
If you don't like it don't follow it simples...
Everyone would be much happier if they didn't as far as I can see.

[thesheriff443]

kizzy why are all your post's double?

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by triplexxxmas

kizzy why are all your post's double?

I'm posting from a 3ds, it's quite good but sometimes duplicates the post.
I delete them when I notice them.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Irene Pearson

Yes and in the meantime these" Christian" folk get away with blatant discrimination.WHY/

Because they are the rules of their religion. Some religions will not marry people outside that particular faith, some religions will not marry divorced people... Do you suggest that divorced heterosexuals are being disciminated against?