[Kyle]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

The problem though, is that it's not always planned. My first daughter wasn't, me and my partner were both 4th year University students and certainly not in a "good position". I'd not even call our position "good" now - we do fine but we're still several years from paying off University debt and until that's done, we can't afford to look at buying property. In an ideal world, we would have had all of this out of the way before having kids, I guess. Then again - I personally don't like the idea of being a "middle aged parent" at all, quite looking forward to still being young enough to have a whole life ahead of me when they're grown.

So anyway, because it's not always planned, what can you do? Do you condemn everyone who accidentally gets pregnant before being able to afford it to a life of extreme poverty, or force their hand into abortion or adoption? How is that in any way "civilised"? We might as well just give up on the notion of a moral society completely. The only reasonable option is to help people in that situation. Especially its not only the unemployed who "cant afford it" - an adult on full time minimum wage has NO chance of supporting a family without things like tax credits. So that means many adults don't get to have a family, not because they are unemployed, but because their FULL TIME job isn't "good enough" in a survival climate that is completely artificial (the monetary economy)?

The only reasonable option is to provide support for families. And because it must exist - it's inevitable that SOME people will take advantage of it deliberately. There's very little that can be done about that.

Your proposal steers uncomfortably close to eugenics - and the worst possible kind of eugenics, because it has nothing to do with anything other than cold hard cash, which (let's face it) comes with LUCK as much as with hard work, and certainly doesn't reflect ability.

More simply; you might find yourself allowing well off people of average intelligence to breed, over less well off yet more intelligent people.

If we must have eugenics... can we at least base it on something useful, like allowing people with above average IQ or above average physical ability to breed? Rather than "folks wot got moneys"?

I seriously doubt Evenstar was making a proposal for eugenics she was likely stating an observation based on personal experience. No need to be haughty really.