[Jules2]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Further to that if you feel strongly enough to die for something or someone then would it not follow that you could kill too?
Many people across the globe are fighting and they ave all been told the same things by their respective superiors.. that what they are doing is for the greater good, for freedom, for their religion or country. All these young men fighting for what they believe is the meaning of life for them, to protect and serve their cause?

Ah Kizzy on a far greater level you are correct. I took it though that in this instance the word "die" was just a lighthearted expression of love. I guess Livia will know which way she meant it.

I have written a piece about such a thing in my blog, it involves the nuns who were killed many years ago and the loss of a young lad fighting for his country/beliefs. So many young lives indoctrined for the sake of religion and their ancestors training.

I think if it came down to it we would protect our own within our own surroundings, mind you by todays laws we would be the ones who suffered the penalities of standing up for our rights.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Jules2

Ah Kizzy on a far greater level you are correct. I took it though that in this instance the word "die" was just a lighthearted expression of love. I guess Livia will know which way she meant it.

I have written a piece about such a thing in my blog, it involves the nuns who were killed many years ago and the loss of a young lad fighting for his country/beliefs. So many young lives indoctrined for the sake of religion and their ancestors training.

I think if it came down to it we would protect our own within our own surroundings, mind you by todays laws we would be the ones who suffered the penalities of standing up for our rights.

I meant exactly what I said.

[Ninastar]

oh livia...

[Jules2]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Further to that if you feel strongly enough to die for something or someone then would it not follow that you could kill too?
Many people across the globe are fighting and they ave all been told the same things by their respective superiors.. that what they are doing is for the greater good, for freedom, for their religion or country. All these young men fighting for what they believe is the meaning of life for them, to protect and serve their cause?

This is part of the piece I wrote about when the nuns were killed, it was a sad programme and brought tears to my eyes:-

...................................
Many of us wonder whose side God is on, that is if one believes in God, because on the other hand after Jeannie's murder we had the little boy from El Salvador saying, his soul distraught as he spoke of the guns and the fear he should wrought..

"It is not your country it is not your land,
These are my beloveds I will take their hand
And lead them to safety from the cruelty of living
So don't talk of forgiving as you think of your loved ones
Happy and safe in peaceful surroundings away from strife".

For they raped his country, his ideals, his friends
And he wondered when the plundering would end.
Little soul they shot him and as he sank to the ground
He hoped that in oblivion peace would be found.
................................

Dear little chap on the other side but his feelings were real.

[Kizzy]

My feeling was if they are doing what they believe in their heart is right, is it wrong?

What is wrong is the manipulation by those who for power instill in the population fear.

[AnnieK]

My meaning in life now is simple.........get my son to adulthood as a happy, healthy, well rounded, tolerant and intelligent human being and my job here is done. I will go to my grave (and whatever, if anything is beyond) happy and satisfied

[lostalex]

People always want to find "meaning" in everything. like the people that obsess about the beatles or Led zeplin, they play the records backwards and hear hidden messages. Humans for some reason can't understand the concept of nothingness, of chaos, of just believing what you see. There must be order behind it, there must be something deeper, a secret. And people are rewarded when they think they have discovered something secret, it makes them feel superior to all the other "sheep", it makes them feel special and smart. It's pure ego.

What if it really is all just a Clusterfvc|k? could you handle that reality?

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by AnnieK

My meaning in life now is simple.........get my son to adulthood as a happy, healthy, well rounded, tolerant and intelligent human being and my job here is done. I will go to my grave (and whatever, if anything is beyond) happy and satisfied

Originally Posted by lostalex

People always want to find "meaning" in everything. like the people that obsess about the beatles or Led zeplin, they play the records backwards and hear hidden messages. Humans for some reason can't understand the concept of nothingness, of chaos, of just believing what you see. There must be order behind it, there must be something deeper, a secret. And people are rewarded when they think they have discovered something secret, it makes them feel superior to all the other "sheep", it makes them feel special and smart. It's pure ego.

What if it really is all just a Clusterfvc|k? could you handle that reality?

..does this not all go back though to the thing that everyone will have their own 'meaning of life' and for some, there will be no meaning at all..for others, the meaning or what defines their life could be bad/evil..or it could be good stuff, wanting to be a better person..wanting to care for the people around you/close to you etc...just whatever meaning someone wants to give it and for whatever their reasons....I don't think that there is a one fits all meaning of life...

[Kyle]

A question I would like to ask the Christians is, does it bother you that some of your friends that you chat to daily on here (and probably in life) are due an eternity in hell after we die? Do you think it's fair that because we reject the idea of Jesus Christ as our lord and saviour that we must be cast down to eternal punishment while you spend you're time playing bingo with the big man? Do you think we deserve that?

[lostalex]

Originally Posted by Ammi

..what I don't think is fair is how some people are scoffed at/ridiculed and belittled for their beliefs or religion..beyond that for me and what happens to anyone after they die is only for me to believe of myself and others to believe whatever they do for themselves...it's more to do with 'life' and the 'meaning' of if people believe there is one and what it is for them, rather than death or any 'beyond'....

religion is not special and it doesn't need to be treated with kid gloves. ridiculous ideas should be ridiculed. and bigoted hateful ideas should be treated as bigoted hateful ideas and scoffed at and condemned. All major religions are hateful and bigoted, and they deserve all of the opposition they receive.

If religion was just your personal belief then why is it being shoved down our kids throats in school, and shoved down everyone's throats in politics?

[rubymoo]

Originally Posted by Kyle

A question I would like to ask the Christians is, does it bother you that some of your friends that you chat to daily on here (and probably in life) are due an eternity in hell after we die? Do you think it's fair that because we reject the idea of Jesus Christ as our lord and saviour that we must be cast down to eternal punishment while you spend you're time playing bingo with the big man? Do you think we deserve that?

This is why i don't believe in heaven and hell, and God, because how can you have someone who believes in God and is a real b@stard in life, and is pretty much guaranteed a place in heaven because they've lived by Gods word (my step mum is one of these people) and then you get a humanitarian who puts their life on the line by helping others basically sacrificing their lives but they don't believe in God so they would go to hell......no no no, this doesn't make sense!

Or a pedophile who turns to God in prison, and becoming born again.....does this wipe his slate clean....no! It can't be like that!

This is why i believe we have our spirit families, and i believe we are energy, i believe i have similar thought processes as Jules, i don't believe in 1 God.

[lostalex]

Nothing about religion makes any sense. There is absolutely no evidence of a loving, kind, fair God anywhere in history. Everything we see in the history of the word is basically a cycle of desperation, rape, survivalism, killing, and more death. 99% of the species that existed on this planet are extinct. please tell me why God made so many species just to make them die?

God must be an evil ****er, cause he seems to like to kill off most of his own creations.

[lostalex]

Originally Posted by rubymoo

This is why i don't believe in heaven and hell, and God, because how can you have someone who believes in God and is a real b@stard in life, and is pretty much guaranteed a place in heaven because they've lived by Gods word (my step mum is one of these people) and then you get a humanitarian who puts their life on the line by helping others basically sacrificing their lives but they don't believe in God so they would go to hell......no no no, this doesn't make sense!

Or a pedophile who turns to God in prison, and becoming born again.....does this wipe his slate clean....no! It can't be like that!

This is why i believe we have our spirit families, and i believe we are energy, i believe i have similar thought processes as Jules, i don't believe in 1 God.

you are just a bunch of molecules cycling through a system.

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by lostalex

religion is not special and it doesn't need to be treated with kid gloves. ridiculous ideas should be ridiculed. and bigoted hateful ideas should be treated as bigoted hateful ideas and scoffed at and condemned. All major religions are hateful and bigoted, and they deserve all of the opposition they receive.

If religion was just your personal belief then why is it being shoved down our kids throats in school, and shoved down everyone's throats in politics?

...I don't believe personally that there is 'no place' for anything religious in schools but I also don't say that I believe in religion in schools as such either..it's like anything that you can take something positive from..like say advice or something..?..or those 'self help' type books..?..I'm not sure if this is a good analogy or not but it's like taking the bits you think apply to you or your life philosophies etc ..so with bible stories/moral stories etc ..there is something which can be applicable in teaching and in schools with children..but that isn't as such teaching them 'religion'...I'm not saying that schools don't go further than that/some schools but that's where I personally think it has 'a place' and I don't think that's enforcing any beliefs...and a bit like what Ruby said...I don't believe that people can 'hide' behind religion if they're not good people generally in life and that's something that I have personally experienced, which is why I don't practise a religion but I do believe in the 'good' of people and if practising a religion does help give them some of that 'good'..the it can't be a bad thing...it doesn't for me have to 'make sense' if it's something that you believe in which helps make you a better person because that in itself is what makes the sense...

[lostalex]

Originally Posted by Ammi

...I don't believe personally that there is 'no place' for anything religious in schools but I also don't say that I believe in religion in schools as such either..it's like anything that you can take something positive from..like say advice or something..?..or those 'self help' type books..?..I'm not sure if this is a good analogy or not but it's like taking the bits you think apply to you or your life philosophies etc ..so with bible stories/moral stories etc ..there is something which can be applicable in teaching and in schools with children..but that isn't as such teaching them 'religion'...I'm not saying that schools don't go further than that/some schools but that's where I personally think it has 'a place' and I don't think that's enforcing any beliefs...and a bit like what Ruby said...I don't believe that people can 'hide' behind religion if they're not good people generally in life and that's something that I have personally experienced, which is why I don't practise a religion but I do believe in the 'good' of people and if practising a religion does help give them some of that 'good'..the it can't be a bad thing...it doesn't for me have to 'make sense' if it's something that you believe in which helps make you a better person because that in itself is what makes the sense...

There is no evidence that religion makes any one a better person though, there is however plenty of evidence that religion makes some people WORSE people ...hello ISIS, hello homophobes, hello the crusades, hello the spanish inquisition, hello every single woman that's been stoned to death for committing adultery in muslim countries.

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by lostalex

There is no evidence that religion makes any one a better person though, there is however plenty of evidence that religion makes some people WORSE people ...hello ISIS, hello homophobes, hello the crusades, hello the spanish inquisition, hello every single woman that's been stoned to death for committing adultery in muslim countries.

..no there is no evidence, Alex...but there are people who do take the good out of what their life beliefs are and that's what I mean..they don't judge and they don't 'condemn' for not having the same beliefs..and they're not prejudice and they don't stone people to death....with the atrocities committed by ISIS, I don't believe that religion is a responsibility but an excuse to carry out these barbaric acts...there is no 'God' there whatsoever...

[Jules2]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

My feeling was if they are doing what they believe in their heart is right, is it wrong?

What is wrong is the manipulation by those who for power instill in the population fear.

I agree with you totally Kizzy, the young lad in my piece was very young and whilst our nuns had been killed I felt for the young lad who suffered at our hands. I would say that he didnt know any better because of his training. It is a cruel cruel world but he thought he was in the right and he was protecting his earthly "masters" voice.

[Jules2]

One of the greatest sayings is "unto thine own self be true". We all know that we have different views and this is great because we can honour each persons thought. If there is nothing then it wont matter because we wont realise.

On the other hand many have had great experiences which are nothing to do with wishful thinking, they are just that, experiences. Mine came about through prayer when I was truly involved with the thought of a God. It is to long a story to go into but whilst at one time I was possibly looking and searching for help, I began to think of other things, I began to question. I realised that there was a reason for my distress, I began to handle it with a positive thought. The distress is still with me after many years but my thought is fighting for my family who need to be uplifted. We have had many illnesses which have been quite distressing. We therefore feed off of each others positivity. We work as one. Regardless my experiences are real and I will never deny them. It is as though I am in another dimension. I am wise enough to know though that an experience is only an experience to that person, to others it can be deemed rubbish. Seek and yea shall find.

There have been many great teachers over the centuries, people just telling us how to get through the trials and tribulations of life. One of the greatest things is forgiveness, possibly the only reason why we should forgive is to help ourselves because the negativity eats us away. Forgive and let it go, let life sort out the karma of an incident. It is very hard at times to forgive though.

Talking about nothing and just darkness I remember I used to sit in primary school just visualising nothing, what would happen if there was nothing at all. It was an eerie feeling and one which seemed to consume me at that time. My paintings had much black within their outline, but then that tiny spark of light shone through.

There is a thought that as we think on this planet so shall we think in another existence until that little light gives us hope and the spirit can move on. To me hell is just our own thoughts and many a time we can say that the hell is here on earth.

[Jules2]

Originally Posted by lostalex

Nothing about religion makes any sense. There is absolutely no evidence of a loving, kind, fair God anywhere in history. Everything we see in the history of the word is basically a cycle of desperation, rape, survivalism, killing, and more death. 99% of the species that existed on this planet are extinct. please tell me why God made so many species just to make them die?

God must be an evil ****er, cause he seems to like to kill off most of his own creations.

I guess it depends on what people want to take out of religion, I had a friend who was over religious but she would spend her time running others down and criticising. I challenged her once with something not on the religious vein but on another, she isnt my friend anymore!! Cant help laughing tbh.

If things rightly uplift then religion works but it possibly depends on how it is used. So much has been laid at its door and many have fallen away from it. I suppose we are beginning to think for ourselves and to realise that we cannot just live by the word of another.

[Kyle]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

I was not referring specifically to you and therefore am not patronising you Kyle. There are a number of posters, of which you are but one.

That said, I still don't see what you are seeing in the 'time scale' of Ammi's post - I really, genuinely don't.

My perception of Ammi is that she's a poetic dreamer, a gentle soul without a shred of malice in her being.

Mate you can only be talking about me. I'm the only person that reacted.

[Jules2]

Originally Posted by Kyle

A question I would like to ask the Christians is, does it bother you that some of your friends that you chat to daily on here (and probably in life) are due an eternity in hell after we die? Do you think it's fair that because we reject the idea of Jesus Christ as our lord and saviour that we must be cast down to eternal punishment while you spend you're time playing bingo with the big man? Do you think we deserve that?

As we know Kyle, each to their own but I agree that it cant be right. There are too many different thoughts and expressions in the world for any one group to be totally correct. I guess we just find our own way.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by lostalex

"People always want to find "meaning" in everything. like the people that obsess about the beatles or Led zeplin, they play the records backwards and hear hidden messages."

I think that you omitted the word; 'Some' from the beginning of your first statement. Some people do always want to find "meaning" in everything. There are those who search for hidden messages in the lyrics of Helter Skelter from the Beatle's White Album, as there are those who 'suffer' from 'Pareidolia' and discern faces in clouds and trees etc.

Then there some others - myself included - who are essentially metaphysicists (in the true sense) and who seek answers to the genuine mysteries of life. We are not 'nutcases', delusional, and not given to 'blind' acceptance of dogma - from any source, nor do we exclude 'science' from the questions or answers.

"Humans for some reason can't understand the concept of nothingness, of chaos, of just believing what you see."

In part, you are absolutely correct here - at least as far as I am concerned - because I cannot accept the concept of nothingness, which is, after all, just another 'theory' -- as is 'Chaos', 'The Big Bang', String', and every other 'scientific proposition. I will ask again the following:

If life is 'accidental' - where did at all begin?
If there was nothing who introduced the something ?
If there was already something, who put the something there in the first place ?
If there is no meaning to life, and no after life, then we are no different to other animals.

If that is so, then where did our moral code come from?

"There must be order behind it, there must be something deeper, a secret. And people are rewarded when they think they have discovered something secret, it makes them feel superior to all the other "sheep", it makes them feel special and smart. It's pure ego."

Some of the greatest scientific minds who ever lived - and still live - believe(d) in order behind the most seemingly random realities in life.

As for 'feeling superior/special/smart; the polar opposite is true. Any sane, rational man who does seek answers in a metaphysical sense, realises - before he has even set forth on his quest to try to find answers - just how insignificant Man really is in the 'grand scheme of things'. He is instantly humbled by the enormity of that quest.

"What if it really is all just a Clusterfvc|k? could you handle that reality?"

Yes, but the actual odds of being able to procure answers to the 'meaning of life' are so utterly overwhelming, that when all the most exhaustive scientific and philosophical searching is ended, I seriously doubt that Man will ever be left with anything other than a simple choice between 'Faith' and 'Atheism'.

I think you may as well reverse the question and ask: "What if it really is one day proved that there is a God and a higher purpose to life? Could you Atheists handle that reality? .

[Kyle]

Originally Posted by Jules2

As we know Kyle, each to their own but I agree that it cant be right. There are too many different thoughts and expressions in the world for any one group to be totally correct. I guess we just find our own way.

I know you've responded further up to my questions Jules and I apologise for not taking note of them but I'm bowing out of the discussion now. I've enjoyed it though it's been good and I'll definitely keep reading.

[smudgie]

Maybe the question for some is not so much "What is the meaning of life" as "Is there meaning to life" .

My personal theory is that if we all live and let live, life might be a happier journey.
I don't believe in the bible, just another book of fairy tales to me, however, I don't feel the need to tell people that do that they are wrong.
A bit of faith goes a long way in this life, what you have faith in matters not.

[Jules2]

Originally Posted by Kyle

I know you've responded further up to my questions Jules and I apologise for not taking note of them but I'm bowing out of the discussion now. I've enjoyed it though it's been good and I'll definitely keep reading.

I find this thread a must I keep thinking I wont write but then I do Dont leave Kyle or Ammi, there will be something else which will come to fruition and it may need answering by different people. How else are we going to learn?

Kyle did you read my blog on santa clause and Reubens the Royal