[Kizzy]

No, I don't agree with it... I can see it exploited.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

No, I don't agree with it... I can see it exploited.

so you would deny thousands of people a dignified chosen end by a supposition?

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by Smithy

Come through Guernsey

Smithy to trial the process in the name of science

[Beso]

Originally Posted by Ammi

...parmunion..?...all we had to do was put a u in you...

Haha..jeez that took me a good two minutes to get I thought i was an onion.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

so you would deny thousands of people a dignified chosen end by a supposition?

yes

[MTVN]

I have issues with it because I think it devalues life and like kizzy says it could be open to exploitation

I also find it hard to deny someone the right to choose but then that carries it's own problems with how you can judge whether someone is capable of making that decision and how can you be sure that their choice now will always be their choice.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by MTVN

I have issues with it because I think it devalues life and like kizzy says it could be open to exploitation

I also find it hard to deny someone the right to choose but then that carries it's own problems with how you can judge whether someone is capable of making that decision and how can you be sure that their choice now will always be their choice.

life has no value its just life. Its easy to create a life and easy to take a life

It seems to work fine on the continent

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

life has no value its just life. Its easy to create a life and easy to take a life

It seems to work fine on the continent

Life has value to the individual and those who know and love them

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Life has value to the individual and those who know and love them

well in that case what a great argument for allowing them to value how they die

[Livia]

So long as no one can be coerced or bullied into it, I'm totally for it.

If I get a diagnosis of dementia or any of those awful diseases that affect older people, I am going out like a ****ing rock star. You will find me full of cocaine, in a Rolls Royce at the bottom of a swimming pool with a big smile on my face.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

well in that case what a great argument for allowing them to value how they die

Well yes I agree with that part (as long as it's not open to abuse of course)

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Livia

So long as no one can be coerced or bullied into it, I'm totally for it.

If I get a diagnosis of dementia or any of those awful diseases that affect older people, I am going out like a ****ing rock star. You will find me full of cocaine, in a Rolls Royce at the bottom of a swimming pool with a big smile on my face.

I like your style

[Crimson Dynamo]

As i get older (late 30s) and see a lot of relatives die the common theme is how fckg rubbish it is and how undignified the end is. It really is not very nice - we need to shake off this post-religious bolloxio about death and start helping people to die a lot better

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

As i get older (late 30s) and see a lot of relatives die the common theme is how fckg rubbish it is and how undignified the end is. It really is not very nice - we need to shake off this post-religious bolloxio about death and start helping people to die a lot better

It's not just religious though, I mean people just don't want to let their loved ones go alot of the time. Lately I can't stop thinking about losing my mom (she's only early 60's and in great health still) but I get panicky when I even think about it (in reality she'll probably out live me )

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Livia

If I get a diagnosis of dementia or any of those awful diseases that affect older people, I am going out like a ****ing rock star. You will find me full of cocaine, in a Rolls Royce at the bottom of a swimming pool with a big smile on my face.

Me too. Sounds a pretty decent way to go

I wonder actually, if there is a way to maybe make a will saying that if I am ever deemed not capable of making the decision, I give permission in advance (while in sound mind) for them to just give me a huge shot of morphine and be done with it. I also want for, if I am in an accident or something and will be very brain damaged, for them to turn the life support off rather than leaving me to a life like that. And in that case too, if I was not on life support, I would want them to put me down. Thats no life.

My mother, a few years ago actually asked me if, if she was very very ill and incapable of committing suicide, would I kill her

[user104658]

Originally Posted by MTVN

I have issues with it because I think it devalues life and like kizzy says it could be open to exploitation

I also find it hard to deny someone the right to choose but then that carries it's own problems with how you can judge whether someone is capable of making that decision and how can you be sure that their choice now will always be their choice.

I don't think either has to be hugely problematic... you could attach some fairly strict criteria i.e. only months left to live anyway, proof that there's unmanageable pain or discomfort, and you could also have it so that both the person requesting it and the medical team surrounding that person have to sign off on it. I don't think the idea of it being significantly exploited in that situation is particularly realistic.

As for the value of life stuff... I dunno. I think people romanticize death. Too many peaceful bedside goodbyes in Hollywood movies with a single tear rolling down the cheeks of loved ones as an old, suspiciously rosy-cheeked person falls asleep with a little smile.

My grandmother died when I was 8 and was cared for in our house in her last months and it was awful. It was bed sores, vomit and confusion as her mind disappeared long before her body, and I have a memory seared in my brain of being able to hear her writhing and shrieking within her final half hour. It was an absolute ****ing horror show.

My mum died 4 years ago and yeah... it was worse. Her main cause of death was liver failure, but basically all of her organs shut down. Her limbs were purple and had swollen to 3x their normal size with oedema. Her immune system had shut down and a simple cold sore had eaten away half of her upper lip and there was dying flesh right round to her cheek. She was mostly unconscious - but would occasionally "gasp awake" for a few confused minutes with a look of real, and complete, terror on her face. She was hallucinating and delirious, but she also knew what was happening to her.

"Devalues life", indeed. I sometimes wonder if the people who are against these things actually realise what an undignified ****-show real death actually is. There is no value there. It's like a cruel joke tacked onto the end of a life. To deny people a way to avoid that out of the (irrational) fear that people are going to somehow use it to bump off their elderly relatives is just madness.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I don't think either has to be hugely problematic... you could attach some fairly strict criteria i.e. only months left to live anyway, proof that there's unmanageable pain or discomfort, and you could also have it so that both the person requesting it and the medical team surrounding that person have to sign off on it. I don't think the idea of it being significantly exploited in that situation is particularly realistic.

As for the value of life stuff... I dunno. I think people romanticize death. Too many peaceful bedside goodbyes in Hollywood movies with a single tear rolling down the cheeks of loved ones as an old, suspiciously rosy-cheeked person falls asleep with a little smile.

My grandmother died when I was 8 and was cared for in our house in her last months and it was awful. It was bed sores, vomit and confusion as her mind disappeared long before her body, and I have a memory seared in my brain of being able to hear her writhing and shrieking within her final half hour. It was an absolute ****ing horror show.

My mum died 4 years ago and yeah... it was worse. Her main cause of death was liver failure, but basically all of her organs shut down. Her limbs were purple and had swollen to 3x their normal size with oedema. Her immune system had shut down and a simple cold sore had eaten away half of her upper lip and there was dying flesh right round to her cheek. She was mostly unconscious - but would occasionally "gasp awake" for a few confused minutes with a look of real, and complete, terror on her face. She was hallucinating and delirious, but she also knew what was happening to her.

"Devalues life", indeed. I sometimes wonder if the people who are against these things actually realise what an undignified ****-show real death actually is. There is no value there. It's like a cruel joke tacked onto the end of a life. To deny people a way to avoid that out of the (irrational) fear that people are going to somehow use it to bump off their elderly relatives is just madness.

Yeah spot on. I wouldn't like my loved ones to remember me in that kind of way and I would like some sort of dignity in death

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Yeah spot on. I wouldn't like my loved ones to remember me in that kind of way and I would like some sort of dignity in death

People say "you remember the good times" but for me that's been a lie. When I remember my mum it comes with that attached image of a yellow, swollen zombie gasping in a hospital bed. Maybe I need therapy or something .

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

People say "you remember the good times" but for me that's been a lie. When I remember my mum it comes with that attached image of a yellow, swollen zombie gasping in a hospital bed. Maybe I need therapy or something .

Yeah, I never bought into lines like that either when it comes to death. When I was 18 my best friend died and I really didn't want to see her body, my reasoning was I didn't want to picture her dead everytime I remembered her and my dad kept pushing and pushing for me to go in the funeral home because I'd regret it and I almost did but turned back at the door. I'm so glad to this day that I didn't do it. Everyone said how peaceful she looked etc but her sister said to me afterwards that she wishes she never saw her because she didn't look like her at all and now she can't get that image out of her head

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

People say "you remember the good times" but for me that's been a lie. When I remember my mum it comes with that attached image of a yellow, swollen zombie gasping in a hospital bed. Maybe I need therapy or something .

Yes. I agree with this for sure. I have so many happy memories of my uncle..mainly from childhood days. I went to see him a few days before he died and I no longer really remember the good stuff, I just remember him clutching at his throat doing what I now know to be 'the death rattle' and looking like a corpse already

[Livia]

I feel quite lucky that I haven't experienced that death-throes moment. My husband was recovering from his injuries when he died, and he just passed away in his sleep. He looked like he was still sleeping, and it helped to know he didn't have that awful, terrifying, last-minute fight for breath. And I don't want to inflict that on people either. I choose how I live, I should be able to choose how I die.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Livia

I feel quite lucky that I haven't experienced that death-throes moment. My husband was recovering from his injuries when he died, and he just passed away in his sleep. He looked like he was still sleeping, and it helped to know he didn't have that awful, terrifying, last-minute fight for breath. And I don't want to inflict that on people either. I choose how I live, I should be able to choose how I die.

[user104658]

My two ideal deaths would be to reach around 80 and then catastrophic heart failure out of nowhere. Like just "lol look at this funny thing I found on the super advanced interne..." *boop* drop dead.

OR... get assassinated by a really skilled sniper while I'm just minding my own business. I don't know why that would happen , but the idea of just not seeing it coming at all really appeals to me.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

My two ideal deaths would be to reach around 80 and then catastrophic heart failure out of nowhere. Like just "lol look at this funny thing I found on the super advanced interne..." *boop* drop dead.

OR... get assassinated by a really skilled sniper while I'm just minding my own business. I don't know why that would happen , but the idea of just not seeing it coming at all really appeals to me.

How about a Robotic Bee flying directly into you brain through your ear?

[Crimson Dynamo]

I have watched a few people die by assisted method and its all not too bad they just drink a small cup of the poison and fall asleep, as it were