[Jessica.]

I think abortion is murder.

[arista]

Originally Posted by Jessica.

I think abortion is murder.

No thats the way you are brought up.


It is Legal.

[Ninastar]

Originally Posted by Jessica.

I think abortion is murder.

I see where your coming from but I think that sometimes its for the best

[Tom.]

Wrong. And the limit needs bringing back to about 15 weeks. If she doesn't realise shes pregnant by then then she doesn't know her body and tough luck if she doesn't want it.

Babies can survive if born at 20 weeks. The abortion limit is 24 weeks, so there is some degree of murder involved imo. Sorry that its an inconvenience but if you don't want to get pregnant then dont have sex. Simple.

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by arista

No thats the way you are brought up.


It is Legal.

This is so true Arista. some may view it as murder as that is their belief.


Personal opinions and belief is not the same as what is legal in the UK and many other countries - so you are infact, correct. It is not murder.

[InOne]

It is just a shame that some women have such a disregard for life and use abortion cos they just dont want it at the time or it's the easy option. (I'm not including the legal reasons, Rape, Disability, threat to mothers life etc)

[Tom.]

I also don't like how women have the overall control. If the father doesn't want the baby but the mother does then she gets to keep it and can force him to pay for it even though he doesn't want it, but if she doesn't want it and he does then she can still get rid of it. It might be her body but the baby is just as much a part of him as it is her.

[InOne]

And it often happens too late. Either she has got rid of the baby and then decides to tell you, or turns up at your door with the baby and says "It's yours, pay for it"

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by Tom.

I also don't like how women have the overall control. If the father doesn't want the baby but the mother does then she gets to keep it and can force him to pay for it even though he doesn't want it, but if she doesn't want it and he does then she can still get rid of it. It might be her body but the baby is just as much a part of him as it is her.

Much as I can understand totally what you are saying: in reality though: how many 'fathers to be', would say: Have the baby, I will look after it 24/7?

In reality: there really wouldn't be that many - I honestly believe there are very few out there who would.

[Vicky.]

I really wonder if some mens opinions on this would change if it was THEIR body they were ruining for life, them who had chances of complications during pregnancy, them who could potentially be left alone to deal with a child that they may not be able to actually support financially or emotionally.

Yeah fair enough, dont want to get pregnant, dont have sex...or use contraception, but its not always as easy as that. Many people do use all methods of contraception, and it still happens sometimes :/

I agree that the limit should be lowered drastically though. 24 weeks is ridiculous.

[Tom.]

Originally Posted by Pyramid*

Much as I can understand totally what you are saying: in reality though: how many 'fathers to be', would say: Have the baby, I will look after it 24/7?

In reality: there really wouldn't be that many - I honestly believe there are very few out there who would.

You can flip that around and ask how many women have kids against the fathers wishes, only to force the father to pay up or have some involvement when they don't want to. Its not fair and easier for women to get out of.

Originally Posted by Vicky.

I really wonder if some mens opinions on this would change if it was THEIR body they were ruining for life, them who had chances of complications during pregnancy, them who could potentially be left alone to deal with a child that they may not be able to actually support financially or emotionally.

Yeah fair enough, dont want to get pregnant, dont have sex...or use contraception, but its not always as easy as that. Many people do use all methods of contraception, and it still happens sometimes :/

I agree that the limit should be lowered drastically though. 24 weeks is ridiculous.

If you think contraception will stop you having a baby then you're very naive and shouldn't be having sex. It reduces your chances, but doesn't eliminate it and you need to accept it can still happen.

And even through pregnancy doubts, both mothers and fathers often change their minds and bond with their babies almost straight away whether they wanted it or not.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Tom.

You can flip that around and ask how many women have kids against the fathers wishes, only to force the father to pay up or have some involvement when they don't want to. Its not fair and easier for women to get out of.

Paying money is a lot different to the emotional problems of being forced to have a child that you dont want though. Massive difference.

The comparison would be a bit more even if...say...it was legal for a woman to force the man to see a child 24/7 that she had against his wishes.

Originally Posted by Tom.

If you think contraception will stop you having a baby then you're very naive and shouldn't be having sex. It reduces your chances, but doesn't eliminate it and you need to accept it can still happen.

And even through pregnancy doubts, both mothers and fathers often change their minds and bond with their babies almost straight away whether they wanted it or not.

However, some may not. What then?

[Tom.]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Paying money is a lot different to the emotional problems of being forced to have a child that you dont want though. Massive difference.

The comparison would be a bit more even if...say...it was legal for a woman to force the man to see a child 24/7 that she had against his wishes.

Courts can enforce similar things.

However, some may not. What then?

And some parents don't take to their babies straight away no matter how excited they were during pregnancy. Should we kill those babies too?

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Tom.

And some parents don't take to their babies straight away no matter how excited they were during pregnancy. Should we kill those babies too?

Yeah, because thats the same thing isnt it...

[Tom.]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Yeah, because thats the same thing isnt it...

Whats different about parents rejecting a child after birth, whether it was wanted during pregnancy by both parents or not?

A lot of womens maternal instinct kicks in after birth regardless of whether they initially wanted the baby or not. Sometimes it doesn't kick in even if they did want it.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Tom.

Whats different about parents rejecting a child after birth, whether it was wanted during pregnancy by both parents or not?

Chances are, if the parents did not want the child through the pregnancy, they arent really going to take to it after the birth. I am aware that people who are really happy about being pregnant sometimes reject the child, but I think its pretty safe to say that of people were forced to have children that they dont want from the outset...that more children would end up 'rejected'

Anyway, its not always just emotional reasons. Some people are not financially capable of bringing up a child. Yeah, these days that doesnt matter, as you could just go on the dole and let the state bring up your kid, but is that really any better?

[Tom.]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Chances are, if the parents did not want the child through the pregnancy, they arent really going to take to it after the birth. I am aware that people who are really happy about being pregnant sometimes reject the child, but I think its pretty safe to say that of people were forced to have children that they dont want from the outset...that more children would end up 'rejected'

Its not as simplistic as that, maybe you should do a bit of reading around the subject.

[Zippy]

I don't like the idea of a 24 week baby being aborted unless for medical reasons. For a woman to leave it that long to abort I would have to question whether she had a conscience. Even I know that a baby is significantly formed at that point so you are actually ending a real human life. Even though Im not sure how developed its feelings are or whether it registers any suffering in death. But it must actually look like a baby at that point and to know youve let it grow that much and then sanctioned its death must be hard to live with. Assuming she has a conscience.

But Im definitely pro-choice. It can't be any other way as you just can't legally force any woman to carry a baby she doesnt want. She would just go elsewhere to get it done or, even worse, try some dangerous method herself to abort it.

but why women can't just use contraception in this day and age is beyond me. Relying on the man to provide it seems pretty stupid considering you're the ones that suffer the consequences.

[Niall]

Originally Posted by Smithy

I have nothing against it, but I think the period of time where you can have an abortion should be shortened

This.

[Tom.]

Originally Posted by Zippy

But Im definitely pro-choice. It can't be any other way as you just can't legally force any woman to carry a baby she doesnt want. She would just go elsewhere to get it done or, even worse, try some dangerous method herself to abort it.

Good, then she can share the pain her dead baby will have.

Abortions should be limited per person as well to stop people using it as a form of contraception.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Tom.

Its not as simplistic as that, maybe you should do a bit of reading around the subject.

I would imagine it is actually(not genuine post-natal depression cases...).

Being forced to carry a child that you do not want for 9 months, the stress of knowing you cant look after it, then eventually having the child...fair or unfair you are likely feel some form of resentment towards the child, even though it is not the childs fault at all. I cant see how anyone could possibly see it any differently

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Tom.

Good, then she can share the pain her dead baby will have.

Abortions should be limited per person as well to stop people using it as a form of contraception.

Its nice to know we have people with such simplistic views on here

I ask, what if the mother does want the child, but the father wants her to abort it...would it then be fair to chop his penis off? After all, that should equal the amount of suffering that you seem to think that the mother should go through for the same thing. Fairs fair and that eh?



However, the second part I definitely agree with. Its easy to make a mistake once, but you learn from it.

[Tom.]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

I would imagine it is actually(not genuine post-natal depression cases...).

Being forced to carry a child that you do not want for 9 months, the stress of knowing you cant look after it, then eventually having the child...fair or unfair you are likely feel some form of resentment towards the child, even though it is not the childs fault at all. I cant see how anyone could possibly see it any differently

But its not. Its all psychological. Parental instincts often override the initial resentment.

Originally Posted by Vicky.

I ask, what if the mother does want the child, but the father wants her to abort it...would it then be fair to chop his penis off? After all, that should equal the amount of suffering that you seem to think that the mother should go through for the same thing. Fairs fair and that eh

She probably wouldnt abort it in the first place

[Zippy]

Originally Posted by Tom.

Good, then she can share the pain her dead baby will have.

Abortions should be limited per person as well to stop people using it as a form of contraception.

think you're being a bit unrealistic with all this thinking.

a woman aborting her own child will probably be a damn sight more painful for the baby than a hospital method. Assuming you actually care about how the unborn baby dies?

Limiting abortions will not stop abortions. It will just stop legal abortions.

[MTVN]

I'm not especially clued up on this but surely barely anyone actually uses it as a form of contraception; who really thinks "ah dont bother with a condom, I'll just get an abortion", it's not like you can get an abortion just by clicking your fingers