[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Livia

That is not a good example at all. To understand the interaction between Harry and the Asian bloke in question, you'd have to understand military humour. The Asian soldier was not in the least offended, and is a good Friend of Harry's. Other people became outraged on his behalf quite unnecessarily and now I see people are misquoting the incident as "a good example" of racism.

To me, racism - or as lostalex more accurately calls it, prejudice, like many other things, is all about intent. If you intend to hurt, offend or harrass someone, then it's obviously not on. If you're using a term to a friend in an innocent manner - quoting song lyrics for example as Emily Parr in BB did - then it is clearly not racism, even though Charley did her best to pretend to be outraged.

I totally disagree, it matters not if he is in the military the P word should not be used...
How do you know he was not offended, it certainly is an offensive term?
It reminds me of the Made in Bradford C4 programme where the retired officer made a reference to past collegues, in which he admitted using this term.
How is one jokey uniformed banter and the other evidence of institutional racism?
Is is because one is a prince?

[Livia]

Originally Posted by kizzy

I totally disagree, it matters not if he is in the military the P word should not be used...
How do you know he was not offended, it certainly is an offensive term?
It reminds me of the Made in Bradford C4 programme where the retired officer made a reference to past collegues, in which he admitted using this term.
How is one jokey uniformed banter and the other evidence of institutional racism?
Is is because one is a prince?

I changed my mind, I don't want to discuss this or anything else -with you.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Livia

I changed my mind, I don't want to discuss this or anything else -with you.

Then why not just delete the post? thats fine, just leave it to show how rude you are...

[lostalex]

Racism is an actual belief system that you are conscious of. It's a choice you make to believe a certain idealogy, just like religion.

Prejudice is different though because it's subconscious. prejudice means you subconsciously have stereotypes about people because of their culture or skin color, it's not an ideology. It's totally subconscious.

being prejudice is not a choice. we are all prejudiced.

Racism is a choice, you choose to believe in a certain ideology to be racist.

you can't help being prejudice, we all are, but you can help being raicst, being racist is an ideological choice, just like choosing to believe in a certain religion.

[MTVN]

Originally Posted by lostalex

Racism is an actual belief system that you are conscious of. It's a choice you make to believe a certain idealogy, just like religion.

Prejudice is different though because it's subconscious. prejudice means you subconsciously have stereotypes about people because of their culture or skin color, it's not an ideology. It's totally subconscious.

being prejudice is not a choice. we are all prejudiced.

Racism is a choice, you choose to believe in a certain ideology to be racist.

you can't help being prejudice, we all are, but you can help being raicst, being racist is an ideological choice, just like choosing to believe in a certain religion.

I don't see much point in trying to make a distinction between the two, racism is prejudice. By no means does it only count as racism if it's incorporated in a set of political views or ideology, racism can occur in many everyday instances in life, however trivial.

Anyway, no I don't think Arron and Conor are racists for not liking Deana

[*mazedsalv**]

Originally Posted by MTVN

I don't see much point in trying to make a distinction between the two, racism is prejudice. By no means does it only count as racism if it's incorporated in a set of political views or ideology, racism can occur in many everyday instances in life, however trivial.

Anyway, no I don't think Arron and Conor are racists for not liking Deana

I think what they mean is that it is different as a whole, yes racism is the highest extreme point of prejudice but as someone has said, racist people know they are racist, however prejudice people would say for example when they see someone looking dodgy on a plane, "Ohh, I'm scared to be in this plane because of that man". The person wouldn't be purposely racist but they have a worry about the person in question and the safety of the place (bad example I know).

Hitler was racist. I think Jade (sorry to bring it up) was a bully, but not racist.

So in full, I do not think Arron is racist, he may have a slight prejudice against Deana (but not from where she's from, more because of her Queen like appearance that she have off maybe in launch night?). Also, I don't think they are BULLYING her, but they are PICKING on her. Slightly different.

Picking on someone gives the person a freedom or the slight courage to bite back, being bullied makes victims feel petrified of fighting back.

[MTVN]

Originally Posted by *mazedsalv**

I think what they mean is that it is different as a whole, yes racism is the highest extreme point of prejudice but as someone has said, racist people know they are racist, however prejudice people would say for example when they see someone looking dodgy on a plane, "Ohh, I'm scared to be in this plane because of that man". The person wouldn't be purposely racist but they have a worry about the person in question and the safety of the place (bad example I know).

Hitler was racist. I think Jade (sorry to bring it up) was a bully, but not racist.

So in full, I do not think Arron is racist, he may have a slight prejudice against Deana (but not from where she's from, more because of her Queen like appearance that she have off maybe in launch night?). Also, I don't think they are BULLYING her, but they are PICKING on her. Slightly different.

Picking on someone gives the person a freedom or the slight courage to bite back, being bullied makes victims feel petrified of fighting back.

Well I don't think anyone is born inherently racist, if someone is being unintentionally prejudice I agree that it's not the same thing as someone who consciously discriminates based on race but I still would consider them both to be racism, it'd just be that the former was more based on institutional and societal prejudices as opposed to any malicious intent on their part

I'm still catching up on last nights episode but I haven't seen anything to say Arron or Conor would hold any prejudiced to Deana based on race, I think it's perfectly feasible that they just don't like her or maybe find her a bit up herself.

[*mazedsalv**]

Originally Posted by MTVN

Well I don't think anyone is born inherently racist, if someone is being unintentionally prejudice I agree that it's not the same thing as someone who consciously discriminates based on race but I still would consider them both to be racism, it'd just be that the former was more based on institutional and societal prejudices as opposed to any malicious intent on their part

I'm still catching up on last nights episode but I haven't seen anything to say Arron or Conor would hold any prejudiced to Deana based on race, I think it's perfectly feasible that they just don't like her or maybe find her a bit up herself.

Yes, of course no one is born racist, but if you are brought up by a racist family then you will BECOME racist at a very young age. Just like that family on the Tyra Banks show who's father was a Nazi and he taught his family to hate all black people and Jews, and they do. That's a creepy though.

[Niamh.]

People who use race against someone or in a negative way are racist. There are also people who uses racist words not intending to insult, I think those people are just ignorant ..........in my opinion of course

[alex_front2]

Do you remember early this year when NBA US-Korean basketball Jeremy Lin was breaking records and people were saying 'Linsanity' 'We're Linning'. Basically an Asian had the temerity to be as good as the other players who were mainly black American.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by alex_front2

Do you remember early this year when NBA US-Korean basketball Jeremy Lin was breaking records and people were saying 'Linsanity' 'We're Linning'. Basically an Asian had the temerity to be as good as the other players who were mainly black American.

Do you think that those people were actually racist though or was it just because you don't often see Asian basketball players that good?

[alex_front2]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Do you think that those people were actually racist though or was it just because you don't often see Asian basketball players that good?

Same thing. Not seeing Asian basketball players as good is racist. You are making an assumption based on race. Alot of people think Koreans, Chinese, Mongolians etc are all the same. Heck loads of people think all Chinese are the same.

White people generally get seen as individuals and judged accordingly. But as soon as a someone who isn't white does something that people haven't seen before 'woahhhhh'. Lewis Hamilton can drive an F1? But his dad's black. Tiger Woods plays golf? But his dads' mixed black. Barak Obama wants to run as US president? Are you sure he's an American?

Conor keeps accusing Deana of playing up to the cameras when she knows she's live on TV. OK nothing wrong with that even though we've seen zero evidence of this and we see live before during and after evictions. However Arron was blatantly playing up to the live TV moment when the nomms were announced ie his weird no more pranks speech. I am not a gambler but I am guessing Conor will say nothing.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by alex_front2

Same thing. Not seeing Asian basketball players as good is racist. You are making an assumption based on race. Alot of people think Koreans, Chinese, Mongolians etc are all the same. Heck loads of people think all Chinese are the same.

White people generally get seen as individuals and judged accordingly. But as soon as a someone who isn't white does something that people haven't seen before 'woahhhhh'. Lewis Hamilton can drive an F1? But his dad's black. Tiger Woods plays golf? But his dads' mixed black. Barak Obama wants to run as US president? Are you sure he's an American?

Conor keeps accusing Deana of playing up to the cameras when she knows she's live on TV. OK nothing wrong with that even though we've seen zero evidence of this and we see live before during and after evictions. However Arron was blatantly playing up to the live TV moment when the nomms were announced ie his weird no more pranks speech. I am not a gambler but I am guessing Conor will say nothing.

You're making a massive amount of assumptions. Some people say Wow! About Lewis Hamilton because they think it's refreshing to see a black man in an F1 car.

Aaron, as profoundly stupid as he is, is perfectly entitled to dislike Deana. That doesn't making him a racist. Maybe he just doesn't like her.

[alex_front2]

Originally Posted by Livia

You're making a massive amount of assumptions. Some people say Wow! About Lewis Hamilton because they think it's refreshing to see a black man in an F1 car.

Aaron, as profoundly stupid as he is, is perfectly entitled to dislike Deana. That doesn't making him a racist. Maybe he just doesn't like her.

How patronising. Yes, black people can read write and get into top unis become scientists and become billionaires. no patronage of white people needed.

the fact that people say it's refreshing to see a black man in a F1 car is utterly racialist. He's a F1 driver just like Button, Vettel, Webber, Shumey, Alonso. Why should his ethnicity be a big deal.

Then there's the vilification of the William Sisters in tennis. They act no worse than Nadal and are slated.

Anyway back to BB I am putting Conors attitude to deana under the microscope.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by alex_front2

Same thing. Not seeing Asian basketball players as good is racist. You are making an assumption based on race. Alot of people think Koreans, Chinese, Mongolians etc are all the same. Heck loads of people think all Chinese are the same.

White people generally get seen as individuals and judged accordingly. But as soon as a someone who isn't white does something that people haven't seen before 'woahhhhh'. Lewis Hamilton can drive an F1? But his dad's black. Tiger Woods plays golf? But his dads' mixed black. Barak Obama wants to run as US president? Are you sure he's an American?

Conor keeps accusing Deana of playing up to the cameras when she knows she's live on TV. OK nothing wrong with that even though we've seen zero evidence of this and we see live before during and after evictions. However Arron was blatantly playing up to the live TV moment when the nomms were announced ie his weird no more pranks speech. I am not a gambler but I am guessing Conor will say nothing.

It's not racist, it's going on what people are used to seeing. It's like when we Irish had a gold medal winning swimmer years ago, we were all pleasantly surprised because we're used to seeing better swimmers from other countries, that's not racist or xenophobic or whatever and I am Irish.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by alex_front2

Do you remember early this year when NBA US-Korean basketball Jeremy Lin was breaking records and people were saying 'Linsanity' 'We're Linning'. Basically an Asian had the temerity to be as good as the other players who were mainly black American.

How is that racist, exactly?

[alex_front2]

Originally Posted by Livia

How is that racist, exactly?

Wow you are racist with an superiority complex. The fact that you don't see that you are is both worrying and slightly funny and a Cambridge uni degree is nothing if you are not bright enough to see this.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by alex_front2

Wow you are racist with an superiority complex. The fact that you don't see that you are is both worrying and slightly funny and a Cambridge uni degree is nothing if you are not bright enough to see this.

You need to stop with the personal insults.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by alex_front2

Wow you are racist with an superiority complex. The fact that you don't see that you are is both worrying and slightly funny and a Cambridge uni degree is nothing if you are not bright enough to see this.

I am racist? I am a Jew. I still have family alive with the Nazi tattoos from concentration camps on their arms. I know a little more about prejudice and racism than you, I think.

You're trolling now and looking for a fight but in reality you're making yourself look really, really dim.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by alex_front2

Do you remember early this year when NBA US-Korean basketball Jeremy Lin was breaking records and people were saying 'Linsanity' 'We're Linning'. Basically an Asian had the temerity to be as good as the other players who were mainly black American.

To me thats just a clever play on words...

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by kizzy

To me thats just a clever play on words...

Eeeeeeexactly.

[lostalex]

i've already explained all this in my posts, but yyall are still talking about it. Prejudice is NOT the same as RACISM>

RACISM is a conscious ideology. a racist KNOWS that he is racist.

PREJUDICE is a subconscious stereotype.

Being prejudice doesn't mean you are racist. they are 2 completely different things.

[Marc]

I'd always stay away from any accusation of it

[alex_front2]

What's quite interesting is people took against Shilpa and now Deana and said they are stuck up. But we've had stuck up white people on BB and nobody has really taken against them. Scot revels in being snotty (he'd take it as a compliment) and discused his views on chavs in his VT and yet noone is giving him a hard time despite the fact he actually comes from a more humble background. It's as if there is an implicit resentment that Indian (or anyone who isn't white) shouldn't get 'above their station' and be more financial successful than the average white person. It reminds me when Oprah Winfrey went to Hermes (lavish luxury items) store in Paris and was almost thrown out by security despite being smartly dressed


Despite the fact that India China will have the biggest economies.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by alex_front2

What's quite interesting is people took against Shilpa and now Deana and said they are stuck up. But we've had stuck up white people on BB and nobody has really taken against them. Scot revels in being snotty (he'd take it as a compliment) and discused his views on chavs in his VT and yet noone is giving him a hard time despite the fact he actually comes from a more humble background. It's as if there is an implicit resentment that Indian (or anyone who isn't white) shouldn't get 'above their station' and be more financial successful than the average white person. It reminds me when Oprah Winfrey went to Hermes (lavish luxury items) store in Paris and was almost thrown out by security despite being smartly dressed


Despite the fact that India China will have the biggest economies.

So now we're on to class distinction. Well, if you want to see REAL class distinction, go to India. It makes the good old British class system look like a love-in.