[the truth]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Women were given a bum deal there's no getting away from it, I hear you feel the pendulum is swinging too far in the opposite direction and with regard to family courts and maintenance issues you may have a point, however I don't feel that is an issue caused in it's entirety by Women.
As said if there is no support network in your area ask your local Councillor why..or better still start one. The church would be a great place to start, I'm sure they would be able to help with all manor of things.. A venue, advertising, organising speakers from different organisations adult mental health for instance?
It's worth an ask if it's an issue that's really close to your heart.

its not just greatly caused by women, its the fact women don't seem to care...not politicians, not councillors, not women in the media...otherwise why do they never even address it, discuss it, debate it, let alone fund it. women need to understand men have feellings too, men love their families and their kids too.....women need to understand they are deliberately and systematically destroying good men in this country

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by the truth

its not just greatly caused by women, its the fact women don't seem to care...not politicians, not councillors, not women in the media...otherwise why do they never even address it, discuss it, debate it, let alone fund it. women need to understand men have feellings too, men love their families and their kids too.....women need to understand they are deliberately and systematically destroying good men in this country

Don't think this is fair really..when infact its NOONE seems to care. Not women in the media, not men in the media.

It is an issue that needs addressed, though honestly I didn't know these support groups and stuff were female only, I always assumed men just...didn't go.

Man up is a phrase that needs to **** off tbh. I hate it.

[Kizzy]

Yet as said the number of men in positions of local and national influence greatly outnumber women, therefore it seems unfair to put the blame squarely at their feet.
There can be supportive campaigns for issues affecting both males and females both are equally important and deserve recognition.
Many women do understand, it's unfair to accuse all women the way you do for failings in the system.

[the truth]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Yet as said the number of men in positions of local and national influence greatly outnumber women, therefore it seems unfair to put the blame squarely at their feet.
There can be supportive campaigns for issues affecting both males and females both are equally important and deserve recognition.
Many women do understand, it's unfair to accuse all women the way you do for failings in the system.

men are not allowed to speak up on these issues or else they will be labelled mysoginist sexist pigs and will lose their jobs, careers, homes and their families will soon follow..there is no freedom of speech for men, whereas women can say virtually anything they like....so yes the onus is now on women to do something and show they actually care and actually believe in equality for ALL...(not just women)

where are these women? what are they saying? ive heard nothing from them anywhere....men speak up for womens rights, male mps do help women all the time, women do nothing for men, not in parliament , nor in the civil service, the courts, the councils or the social services....even little things like the way female nurses talk to talk patients is a disgrace, the way medical secretaries talk to men is a disgrace,demanding personal information about their medical problems? theyre not remotely qualified to do so, its ruse simply to get the man to call back, even if its serious.. if it was the other way around theyd be reprimanded and sacked...women are allowed and encouraged to complain about every tiny little thing, to claim compensation where they can...to sue the moment 1 or 2 words they claim t find offensive to gain yet more financial compensation. its absurd.

no women in mainstream have done a damned thing about male suicides in this country. that tells me simply women don't give a damn. therefore the problem is not only greatly caused by women and ruthless mothers preventing fathers from seeing their children or lying about who is the father (another sin that should be a crime, with longer sentences for women who milk money from men who are later found to not be the fathers ) theyre rewarded and encouraged to be this ruthless and conniving.
the problem of male suicides is a male problem hugely created by women who couldn't care less

[hijaxers]

Here's one for ya to ponder - 4 men were out drinking in Bristol at the weekend and all 4 of them were spiked with Rohypnol ! This has not been reported in the news ( imagine if it were women ! ) They think it happened in a pub on Hotwells Rd - although they had left before the full effects of the drug took hold , one of them had other health problems that led to him being hospitalized quite quickly - hence they actually found rohypnol in his blood stream ! if this had been 4 women it would have been headlines - its men so i've heard nothing in the local press at all !
I know this as my friend works with a member of the family it happened to and i feel its just another case of it happened to men so its not worth reporting to the greater community. I find this quite disgusting
Do you all ?

[the truth]

Originally Posted by hijaxers

Here's one for ya to ponder - 4 men were out drinking in Bristol at the weekend and all 4 of them were spiked with Rohypnol ! This has not been reported in the news ( imagine if it were women ! ) They think it happened in a pub on Hotwells Rd - although they had left before the full effects of the drug took hold , one of them had other health problems that led to him being hospitalized quite quickly - hence they actually found rohypnol in his blood stream ! if this had been 4 women it would have been headlines - its men so i've heard nothing in the local press at all !
I know this as my friend works with a member of the family it happened to and i feel its just another case of it happened to men so its not worth reporting to the greater community. I find this quite disgusting
Do you all ?

yes, its just men after all...women and children first. ill look out for that story though thanks for that

[hijaxers]

Originally Posted by the truth

yes, its just men after all...women and children first. ill look out for that story though thanks for that

I will update you on this tomorrow

[the truth]

ive never even seen sexism against women in my country? never....where I live women get the right to do everything...in work women wpout filth and speak about their private sex lives...men never EVER do that....women generalize about men all day every day...the women say nonsense like men are idiots men don't understand this or that....men could never do this job...all men are bastards etc etc it just goes on and on........even behind closed doors, ive never ever witnessed any man abuse any woman...though ive seen a lot of women steal from men, shout and verbally abuse men for years and years until in the end in some cases it reduced the men to dirt....that's what ive seen, that's real politics.

[AnnieK]

Originally Posted by the truth

ive never even seen sexism against women in my country? never....where I live women get the right to do everything...in work women wpout filth and speak about their private sex lives...men never EVER do that....women generalize about men all day every day...the women say nonsense like men are idiots men don't understand this or that....men could never do this job...all men are bastards etc etc it just goes on and on........even behind closed doors, ive never ever witnessed any man abuse any woman...though ive seen a lot of women steal from men, shout and verbally abuse men for years and years until in the end in some cases it reduced the men to dirt....that's what ive seen, that's real politics.

You've honestly never seen or heard a man abuse a woman? You've never heard a guy talk about his sex life with his mates? I'm sorry I find that very, very hard to believe. In a previous post you have mentioned medical secretaries asking for personal information, in my experience that is not exclusive to men, I have been asked very personal questions by medical secretaries.

As the mother of a son I of course have sympathy with the issues that men face and ensure that he knows he can speak to me about anything at any time but for you to say that it is solely down to women to put this right and men are not listened to, I cannot agree. It is not that long ago that women didn't have a voice nor be allowed to be heard and they went out and fought for (and died for) that right.

I would also be interested to know if you have written to your MP about these issues and if you have had a response from them?

[Niamh.]

Jesus, you really hate women

[the truth]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Jesus, you really hate women

jeez you really hate men

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by the truth

jeez you really hate men

I haven't said anything bad about men, why would you think that? I have a son, a husband and 3 brothers, I don't hate men at all

[the truth]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

I haven't said anything bad about men, why would you think that? I have a son, a husband and 3 brothers, I don't hate men at all

you've said nothing to help them....as a mother id have thought youd be more passionate about fighting male suicide male mortality rates, men losing their children etc doesn't this concern you? I don't hate women despite your pernicious comments.. I do hate the way some behave , how little support they give men , how little they speak up for mens rights too , how unaccountable many are and how there are so many double standards

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by the truth

you've said nothing to help them....as a mother id have thought youd be more passionate about fighting male suicide male mortality rates, men losing their children etc doesn't this concern you? I don't hate women despite your pernicious comments.. I do hate the way some behave , how little support they give men , how little they speak up for mens rights too , how unaccountable many are and how there are so many double standards

But you do generalise a lot about women in a very negative way which is the reason I think you hate women. You say I'm not concerned about family law concerning men yet if you scroll back through this thread you'll see you're forgetting that I agreed with you about that. My issue with how you approach the subject is that you seem to be blaming women solely for both this and male suicide rates when surely it's everyone's problem where this is concerned? Especially the countries governments and law makers

[Ammi]

..you're right, truth..this is a serious issue and something that should be addressed but you're somehow laying blame or cause to be with females..?..and the statistics don't say that..

Prof Louis Appleby, the chair of the National Suicide Prevention Advisory Group in England, said: “Men are more at risk of suicide because they are more likely to drink heavily, use self-harm methods that are more often fatal and are reluctant to seek help.

“Fifteen years ago the rates among men under 35 were brought down sharply by tackling these problems and we need to use this success to address the problems of the new highest risk group, middle-aged men.

...I do agree that with divorce/separation issues, fathers can often get a fairly rough deal but fathers can also leave their children so it's not a general thing..as can mothers leave their children as well..I had a friend/a female who committed suicide not that long ago and it made me aware of how little help and support there is in this country for mental health issues..I think that's something that has just got progressively worse and is in itself at crisis point or becoming so...I think that's where the focus should be with this and speaking to MPs etc about it and trying to raise awareness that this just can't go on...


..yeah, sometimes males get a bad deal in some areas and sometimes females get a bad deal in others, it really isn't a general thing with one sex or another...but really I do understand your frustration and there are so many areas with mental health issues that should be looked at..why not take those frustrations and the points you make and try to have them heard by the people who have the power to look at these problems/use them to raise awareness ....

[Niamh.]

There you go again blaming everything on women. As a woman myself I find it hard to have a reasonable discussion with you about this subject because all you do is insult women instead of focusing on the issue your discussing itself, I find it offensive to be lumped into the box you've put all women in

[the truth]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

There you go again blaming everything on women. As a woman myself I find it hard to have a reasonable discussion with you about this subject because all you do is insult women instead of focusing on the issue your discussing itself, I find it offensive to be lumped into the box you've put all women in

I find it offensive that women have done nothing for men on these issues. ive been sworn at on this thread and called a mysoginstic pig etc im the one who should feel insulted. I am also insulted by your rather fickle attitude to the matter with your lols and inappropriate smileys......I suggest IF you actually cared about it, write to your mps oh and speak to your sons about the issue too

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

There you go again blaming everything on women. As a woman myself I find it hard to have a reasonable discussion with you about this subject because all you do is insult women instead of focusing on the issue your discussing itself, I find it offensive to be lumped into the box you've put all women in

I actually think The Truth makes a good illustrative flipped example of the issue with feminism, to be fair. This is more or less my experience of discussing feminist issues with most feminists, and the but I've made bold is pretty much what it usually feels like to try. Or even to observe.

Note that I don't think the truth is actually trying to portray satire, I'm sure he actually believes a lot of what he's saying, but then, so do "forceful feminists"...

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I actually think The Truth makes a good illustrative flipped example of the issue with feminism, to be fair. This is more or less my experience of discussing feminist issues with most feminists, and the but I've made bold is pretty much what it usually feels like to try. Or even to observe.

Note that I don't think the truth is actually trying to portray satire, I'm sure he actually believes a lot of what he's saying, but then, so do "forceful feminists"...

I guess a "forceful feminist" is just a nice word for a sexist woman though. Feminism in the true sense of the word should just be about equality imo and I strongly disagree that male suicide rates are up because a minority of forceful feminists have taken over the world. That's not helpful to the issue at all imo

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

I guess a "forceful feminist" is just a nice word for a sexist woman though. Feminism in the true sense of the word should just be about equality imo and I strongly disagree that male suicide rates are up because a minority of forceful feminists have taken over the world. That's not helpful to the issue at all imo

In my experience, unfortunately, the vast majority of active feminism is sexist. Ranging from "a little bit" to "extremely" - but feminist articles (propaganda?) is constantly springing up and being "liked" all over my Facebook and I'm genuinely struggling to think of a recent example that wasn't sexist or didn't make me feel "lumped into a box" with other penis-wielders as described above.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

In my experience, unfortunately, the vast majority of active feminism is sexist. Ranging from "a little bit" to "extremely" - but feminist articles (propaganda?) is constantly springing up and being "liked" all over my Facebook and I'm genuinely struggling to think of a recent example that wasn't sexist or didn't make me feel "lumped into a box" with other penis-wielders as described above.

How influential are these feminist groups though really? I can honestly say that I haven't come across any groups like this in my everyday life and do you feel that they're responsible for male suicide rates?

[Niamh.]

Exactly Ammi. Also, I think it was Vicky who brought up the phrase "man up" , in my experience it's mainly men who use this to other men. It's not just women who put pressure on men, men often put pressure on other men and feel like it's "a womens thing" to talk about how they're feeling and seek help if they're feeling depressed. I don't understand how all the blame for mens mental health issues can be laid solely at womens feet.

And truth, I am extremely close to my son, why do you assume I don't talk to him about how he's feeling? Of course I do

[user104658]

I guess though, my sense of self and identity is quite gender-neutral and "I am a man / a male" is a fairly irrelevant statement, to me, when talking about who I am. I'm an individualist and tend to look at almost every issue completely "gender blind". The only responsibility that comes into it is with each individual, for themselves. I am no more responsible for the actions of "some men" than I am for the actions of "some sharks"... And likewise... I have very little time or understanding for women who feel hurt / offended on behalf of "other women" in situations that don't apply to themselves.

Example: historically, women's political freedoms were oppressed by men. I get that. But Are your political freedoms oppressed? Did I personally oppress them? Have I oppressed anyone's political freedoms? With the answers to those being "no", I reserve the right to take absolutely no responsibility, or feel any "guilt" whatsoever, for the actions of other human beings who also happened to have penises.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I guess though, my sense of self and identity is quite gender-neutral and "I am a man / a male" is a fairly irrelevant statement, to me, when talking about who I am. I'm an individualist and tend to look at almost every issue completely "gender blind". The only responsibility that comes into it is with each individual, for themselves. I am no more responsible for the actions of "some men" than I am for the actions of "some sharks"... And likewise... I have very little time or understanding for women who feel hurt / offended on behalf of "other women" in situations that don't apply to themselves.

Example: historically, women's political freedoms were oppressed by men. I get that. But Are your political freedoms oppressed? Did I personally oppress them? Have I oppressed anyone's political freedoms? With the answers to those being "no", I reserve the right to take absolutely no responsibility, or feel any "guilt" whatsoever, for the actions of other human beings who also happened to have penises.

Really , you're just illustrating the point that many women have made here... Some women have a problem with men, most don't and care deeply for at least one and probably more men in their lives. And yet thetruth's posts are clearly anti ALL women.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Livia

Really , you're just illustrating the point that many women have made here... Some women have a problem with men, most don't and care deeply for at least one and probably more men in their lives. And yet thetruth's posts are clearly anti ALL women.

Like I said, I'm not saying I agree with him, just that he makes a good parallel with the majority of feminist literature. He is frequently ridiculous and completely and utterly one sided and seems to have an uncanny ability to make literally ANYTHING into an issue with "evil women!!!" but... that's what makes it a good parallel.