[Merry Mockmas]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

At 11 years old though? Does a an 11 year old really have a proper understanding of the consequences of their actions? I'm not sure. My own son is 11 so i guess straight away I can put myself in the shoes of his parents (well not the fact that they had a gun lying around just being his parents I mean)

To me the parents are more at fault than the child

At 11 years of age I never wanted to shoot off a gun at an 8 year old in a fit of rage, in fact it's never entered my head to want to do that.

I agree with you that the parents should get into a lot of trouble though.

[ChristmasNeeve]

Originally Posted by Mystic Mock

At 11 years of age I never wanted to shoot off a gun at an 8 year old in a fit of rage, in fact it's never entered my head to want to do that.

I agree with you that the parents should get into a lot of trouble though.

Yes but you probably wouldn't have had access to a gun to even think about it anyway Mock. 11 is still a child and kids see people shooting other people on TV and it doesn't seem very real I'd imagine. It seems so easy and I don't know if at that age alot of 11 year olds would really be thinking if I do this I'm actually killing this girl and her life is over, if you know what I mean? Like I mean alot of 11 year olds would have hit another kid for not getting their way or because the other kid annoyed them, it could have been a similar thing in his mind

[arista]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

At 11 years old though? Does a an 11 year old really have a proper understanding of the consequences of their actions? I'm not sure. My own son is 11 so i guess straight away I can put myself in the shoes of his parents (well not the fact that they had a gun lying around just being his parents I mean)

To me the parents are more at fault than the child

Yes Valid Point
he was so angry he could not see her new puppy
next door.

I would think up until he fired the shotgun
he would be in a tantrum type rage.

Then after it comes back to real life

[ChristmasNeeve]

Originally Posted by arista

Yes Valid Point
he was so angry he could not see her new puppy
next door.

I would think up until he fired the shotgun
he would be in a tantrum type rage.

Then after it comes back to real life

Yep which is pretty normal behaviour for kids of that age but the vast majority wouldn't have easy access to guns

[Ammi]

..I also don't understand First Degree Murder either, which is what some are asking for him to be tried for...I understand that him going into the house and getting the gun, knowing what he would do with it is 'premeditation and intent'...but his mind-set is still that of a child, not an adult..so how can he fully understand consequences/.. fully understand 'death'....

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Yep which is pretty normal behaviour for kids of that age but the vast majority wouldn't have easy access to guns

I don't know that it's necessarily that simple though, I think it would be a gross representation of normal psychology to suggest that this was just "normal kid stuff" but he happened to have access to a gun. I mean, any kid anywhere in the world has "access to" planks of wood / bricks / rocks which they could bash each other over the head with, sharp pieces of wood or metal that they could stab each other with, and cause serious injury or death in a rage during all sorts of "normal kid disputes" but they... well... they generally don't.

I'm not for a minute saying that it's right that these kids in America have access to firearms, of course it's not, and these lethal weapons being at hand certainly ups the incidence of really horrible outcomes like this. But the motivation behind it is extremely violent and not at all even close to being a normal "child tantrum". Not at 5 years old... and definitely not at 11.

That said, I agree with the point that children and adolescents don't have a full concept of mortality and for that reason it seems questionable for him to be tried as an adult / as it being a premiditated killing. There's a reason that non-adults aren't generally tried as adults... and I don't really understand the logic of making exceptions to that just because the crime was a particularly bad one. If anything, the worse the crime, the MORE likely it becomes that the child didn't understand the consequences of their actions.

[Ashsleigh]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

At 11 years old though? Does a an 11 year old really have a proper understanding of the consequences of their actions? I'm not sure. My own son is 11 so i guess straight away I can put myself in the shoes of his parents (well not the fact that they had a gun lying around just being his parents I mean)

To me the parents are more at fault than the child

You hit the age of responsibility at 10 years old. When I was 11 I was fully aware of weapons and crime, I even learned about crime in my first year of secondary school (when I was 11).

So to answer your question, yes, I think 11 year olds know exactly what they're doing.

[ChristmasNeeve]

Originally Posted by Ashley.

You hit the age of responsibility at 10 years old. When I was 11 I was fully aware of weapons and crime, I even learned about crime in my first year of secondary school (when I was 11).

So to answer your question, yes, I think 11 year olds know exactly what they're doing.

whaaaat? that's still a baby.

[Tom4784]

It's ridiculous to try an 11 year old as an adult. Where is the logic behind it? It's a vengeful act rather than a just one.

The parents should be done for negligence, allowing a child to get easy access to a gun is shocking. If they can't limit the guns in America then they should at least create a few laws detailing how they should be kept so that they don't fall into a child's hands so easily.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

It's ridiculous to try an 11 year old as an adult. Where is the logic behind it? It's a vengeful act rather than a just one.

The parents should be done for negligence, allowing a child to get easy access to a gun is shocking. If they can't limit the guns in America then they should at least create a few laws detailing how they should be kept so that they don't fall into a child's hands so easily.

We are going to have to STOP agreeing , but I do absolutely agree with you.

[Scarlett.]

Notthegunsfault™

[arista]

Originally Posted by Chewy

Notthegunsfault™

For Sure

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Chewy

Notthegunsfault™

LOL You nutter Chewy.

[Christmas Dynasnow]

The minute you acquire a gun the possibility of you killing someone or being killed skyrockets

[ChristmasNeeve]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

The minute you acquire a gun the possibility of you killing someone or being killed skyrockets

Absolutely

[Kazanne]

I'm not getting into this one too deeply,but I do think that kids of that age know pointing a gun at someone and shooting will kill them, they are not stupid .

[DemolitionRed]

What I'd be interested to know is, why was there a fully armed shotgun laying around? I hope the parents are going to be charged with reckless behaviour. There were 6 kids in that house

No matter what, the fallout will lead to lifelong emotional scars for everyone involved.

[Samuel.]

The parents should be the only ones punished.

The child should be given substantial psychological help, both in what led to his actions and the trauma his actions will have caused.

Children are idiots, and this was a series of unfortunate events that was allowed to happen because of the parents' negligence.

[ChristmasNeeve]

Originally Posted by Samuel.

The parents should be the only ones punished.

The child should be given substantial psychological help, both in what led to his actions and the trauma his actions will have caused.

Children are idiots, and this was a series of unfortunate events that was allowed to happen because of the parents' negligence.

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Samuel.

The parents should be the only ones punished.

The child should be given substantial psychological help, both in what led to his actions and the trauma his actions will have caused.

Children are idiots, and this was a series of unfortunate events that was allowed to happen because of the parents' negligence.

..I totally agree Samuel..(I wish I had your knack of saying something so perfectly and directly with so few words..)..

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by Samuel.

The parents should be the only ones punished.

The child should be given substantial psychological help, both in what led to his actions and the trauma his actions will have caused.

Children are idiots, and this was a series of unfortunate events that was allowed to happen because of the parents' negligence.

This is what would happen here in the Uk. America can be so backward when it comes to things like this.

[Ashsleigh]

What if the child kills again in later life? That would be another innocent person dead because they didn't lock him up when they had the chance.

He won't learn from his actions if he gets off scot-free.

[ChristmasNeeve]

Originally Posted by Ashley.

What if the child kills again in later life? That would be another innocent person dead because they didn't lock him up when they had the chance.

He won't learn from his actions if he gets off scot-free.

I'm actually quite shocked that a person who has studied law and is a solicitor is saying that an eleven year old kid should be charged with first degree murder as an adult :/

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

I'm actually quite shocked that a person who has studied law and is a solicitor is saying that an eleven year old kid should be charged with first degree murder as an adult :/

Indeed.....


The age of criminal responsibility is not the same as the age of majority. Kids between 10-17 are tried in different courts with different outcomes to that of an adult. Suggesting an 11 year old should be tried as an adult is ludicrous in the extreme. The parents are clearly at fault in this one.

[Ashsleigh]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

I'm actually quite shocked that a person who has studied law and is a solicitor is saying that an eleven year old kid should be charged with first degree murder as an adult :/

You're putting words in my mouth. I said he shouldn't get off SCOT FREE, not that he should be treated as an adult and locked up until the end of days. It's a bit hypocritical you saying that I should know better because of my job, when you're doing the exact same thing as a mod.