[user104658]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Yep which is pretty normal behaviour for kids of that age but the vast majority wouldn't have easy access to guns

I don't know that it's necessarily that simple though, I think it would be a gross representation of normal psychology to suggest that this was just "normal kid stuff" but he happened to have access to a gun. I mean, any kid anywhere in the world has "access to" planks of wood / bricks / rocks which they could bash each other over the head with, sharp pieces of wood or metal that they could stab each other with, and cause serious injury or death in a rage during all sorts of "normal kid disputes" but they... well... they generally don't.

I'm not for a minute saying that it's right that these kids in America have access to firearms, of course it's not, and these lethal weapons being at hand certainly ups the incidence of really horrible outcomes like this. But the motivation behind it is extremely violent and not at all even close to being a normal "child tantrum". Not at 5 years old... and definitely not at 11.

That said, I agree with the point that children and adolescents don't have a full concept of mortality and for that reason it seems questionable for him to be tried as an adult / as it being a premiditated killing. There's a reason that non-adults aren't generally tried as adults... and I don't really understand the logic of making exceptions to that just because the crime was a particularly bad one. If anything, the worse the crime, the MORE likely it becomes that the child didn't understand the consequences of their actions.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I don't know that it's necessarily that simple though, I think it would be a gross representation of normal psychology to suggest that this was just "normal kid stuff" but he happened to have access to a gun. I mean, any kid anywhere in the world has "access to" planks of wood / bricks / rocks which they could bash each other over the head with, sharp pieces of wood or metal that they could stab each other with, and cause serious injury or death in a rage during all sorts of "normal kid disputes" but they... well... they generally don't.

I'm not for a minute saying that it's right that these kids in America have access to firearms, of course it's not, and these lethal weapons being at hand certainly ups the incidence of really horrible outcomes like this. But the motivation behind it is extremely violent and not at all even close to being a normal "child tantrum". Not at 5 years old... and definitely not at 11.

That said, I agree with the point that children and adolescents don't have a full concept of mortality and for that reason it seems questionable for him to be tried as an adult / as it being a premiditated killing. There's a reason that non-adults aren't generally tried as adults... and I don't really understand the logic of making exceptions to that just because the crime was a particularly bad one. If anything, the worse the crime, the MORE likely it becomes that the child didn't understand the consequences of their actions.

The difference in the way I see it when it comes to guns, is that they're just too easy to use and kill with, without even breaking a sweat or actually doing much violent things yourself if you know what I mean? Like picking up a gun and pulling the trigger is the same action that many kids that age do everyday with their toys guns. Picking up a brick and bashing someones head in is quite a different story.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

The difference in the way I see it when it comes to guns, is that they're just too easy to use and kill with, without even breaking a sweat or actually doing much violent things yourself if you know what I mean? Like picking up a gun and pulling the trigger is the same action that many kids that age do everyday with their toys guns. Picking up a brick and bashing someones head in is quite a different story.

I suppose, there are arguments that there's a "disconnect" with the violence committed with guns. You just pull a little trigger, you're not using physical force which I would imagine there are some instincts built into most people that stop that sort of violence. It's the same sort of disconnect that allows politicians to kill thousands with the push of a button or flick of a pen authorising the use of force when they could never pick up a weapon and do the same themselves.

Still, though, aged 11 I find it very unlikely that something like this could arise from normal "kid frustration", unless he has some sort of disorder or learning difficulty. A psychologically "normal" 11 year old would not pick up a shotgun and fire it at a little girl. Still, that's even more reason he shouldn't be being tried as a mentally sound adult who engaged in a simple act of premeditated violence.

I get conflicted with things like this though. The above is the detached, pure psychology answer. Then I try to put it into the context of what my opinion would be if one of the young boys around here was to kill my daughter and... Well... To be blunt, the proper course of legal action would be irrelevant because he'd be dead before the police arrived,and it would be me being arrested.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I suppose, there are arguments that there's a "disconnect" with the violence committed with guns. You just pull a little trigger, you're not using physical force which I would imagine there are some instincts built into most people that stop that sort of violence. It's the same sort of disconnect that allows politicians to kill thousands with the push of a button or flick of a pen authorising the use of force when they could never pick up a weapon and do the same themselves.

Still, though, aged 11 I find it very unlikely that something like this could arise from normal "kid frustration", unless he has some sort of disorder or learning difficulty. A psychologically "normal" 11 year old would not pick up a shotgun and fire it at a little girl. Still, that's even more reason he shouldn't be being tried as a mentally sound adult who engaged in a simple act of premeditated violence.

I get conflicted with things like this though. The above is the detached, pure psychology answer. Then I try to put it into the context of what my opinion would be if one of the young boys around here was to kill my daughter and... Well... To be blunt, the proper course of legal action would be irrelevant because he'd be dead before the police arrived,and it would be me being arrested.

mmm I guess if you wanted to get emotionally invested in the case you could put yourself in the shoes of both kids parents. Maybe it is easier for me to do that with the boy this time because I happen to have an eleven year old son at the moment? I have to say though my own son is a bit obsessed with guns but he's also an extremely empathetic child. I couldn't imagine him actually doing something like that either.