[Ammi]

..I also don't understand First Degree Murder either, which is what some are asking for him to be tried for...I understand that him going into the house and getting the gun, knowing what he would do with it is 'premeditation and intent'...but his mind-set is still that of a child, not an adult..so how can he fully understand consequences/.. fully understand 'death'....

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Ammi

..I also don't understand First Degree Murder either, which is what some are asking for him to be tried for...I understand that him going into the house and getting the gun, knowing what he would do with it is 'premeditation and intent'...but his mind-set is still that of a child, not an adult..so how can he fully understand consequences/.. fully understand 'death'....

Yeah, I mean how can you have age ratings for movies 16's and 18's because we don't believe children under those ages should be exposed to certain things on screen because they're too young, their minds aren't ready for that kind of thing yet say that at 11 years old they can be tried as an adult for first degree murder? It makes no sense to me.

I suppose I keep thinking back to the Jamie Bulger case because those two boys were even younger but I think their situation was different in that they actually kidnapped a toddler for no apparent reason other than they wanted to hurt him. It was a different situation because those boys were clearly mentally disturbed to do the things they did to that poor baby. Where as this just seems like an 11 year old, like Arista said, having a tantrum because he didn't get his way and unfortunately had access to something he shouldn't have had access to. I don't think he "thought it through" or would really have a proper understanding of the finality of what he did either

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Yeah, I mean how can you have age ratings for movies 16's and 18's because we don't believe children under those ages should be exposed to certain things on screen because they're too young, their minds aren't ready for that kind of thing yet say that at 11 years old they can be tried as an adult for first degree murder? It makes no sense to me.

I suppose I keep thinking back to the Jamie Bulger case because those two boys were even younger but I think their situation was different in that they actually kidnapped a toddler for no apparent reason other than they wanted to hurt him. It was a different situation because those boys were clearly mentally disturbed to do the things they did to that poor baby. Where as this just seems like an 11 year old, like Arista said, having a tantrum because he didn't get his way and unfortunately had access to something he shouldn't have had access to. I don't think he "thought it through" or would really have a proper understanding of the finality of what he did either

..with this, presumably he had known for however long that the gun was there and loaded/accessible but not used it before in any other situation but then did this time because he was angry...so surely that would be more a 'crime of passion' anyway and second degree murder, even if he was tried as an adult...(I would think..)..if this is proceeded with, him being tried as an adult..?...there will have to be first a lengthy process of assessing his full understanding of everything he was doing and I just don't see how that's possible because someone his age/with his life experiences couldn't possibly understand empathy etc...and what her death has meant to her family...

[kirklancaster]

The child is a child, but he is a LIVING child unlike his victim. No, he should not be tried as an adult or for 'Ist Degree' murder, but he should be charged with 'Causing Death by Malicious Wounding' or some such, but it is his parents who should be punished. A gun should be kept in a locked gun cabinet - even in the US of A - and it is gross negligence for it not to have been kept so. When it comes down to it, a sweet young child has been killed and a family left distraught.

Without wishing any Witch Hunt, someone HAS to be held accountable.

[Ammi]

..he's a victim as well though and he'll continue to be a victim, his life will never be the same no matter what now and he's lost his childhood...even if his parents were fully held accountable then if either of them or both of them got prison sentences..he would be without his parents, maybe go into care even..whatever happens in terms of law action, his 'punishment' I think will be life long for him...

[arista]

Originally Posted by Ammi

..he's a victim as well though and he'll continue to be a victim, his life will never be the same no matter what now and he's lost his childhood...even if his parents were fully held accountable then if either of them or both of them got prison sentences..he would be without his parents, maybe go into care even..whatever happens in terms of law action, his 'punishment' I think will be life long for him...

You do not know anything about this boy
he may a nasty bully.

He Rolled The Dice
and lost.

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by arista

You do not know anything about this boy
he may a nasty bully.

He Rolled The Dice
and lost.

..what I know about him is that he's a child Arista...and there were no rolling of dices, just extraordinarily irresponsible parents whose loaded gun was accessible to their son...

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Ammi

..he's a victim as well though and he'll continue to be a victim, his life will never be the same no matter what now and he's lost his childhood...even if his parents were fully held accountable then if either of them or both of them got prison sentences..he would be without his parents, maybe go into care even..whatever happens in terms of law action, his 'punishment' I think will be life long for him...

Yes, it is a really, really difficult one. I agree that this SHOULD haunt him for the rest of his life and that this constitutes punishment in itself, and I do not now advocate imprisonment for either parent, but - obviously - a young child is dead and no one can act as if it all never happened just because addressing the tragic situation piles more heartache on heartbreak.

The parents HAVE to bear the brunt of this tragedy, because it all could have been avoided with a modicum of care.

Incidentally, I do really believe that the boy has serious mental and psychological issues which need addressing. Yes, the average kid can have a dicky fit, but they still do not kill the other child who has 'upset' them. I know that most children have not got ready access to guns, but following this to its logical conclusion, children wound up by an argument would be reaching for bricks, hammers, tree branches or other 'at hand' items to use as weapons, and beating the other child to death, if the child in question's behaviour was 'normal'.

I believe, that tests may yet prove that he has psychopathic tendencies.

We'll see.