[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Lesbians are already getting it left right and centre. Being told they are transphobic for being attracted to female people, rather than people with 'ladybrains' and penises

Have you heard of a youtuber called Riley Dennis? Riley's a transwoman who has made several videos going on about how it's "transphobic" to not date transpeople, that calling a trap "he" is tantamount to violence, and not wanting to date a bisexual is "biphobic" ... it's a migraine, even Riley's voice gives me a headache.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

Have you heard of a youtuber called Riley Dennis? Riley's a transwoman who has made several videos going on about how it's "transphobic" to not date transpeople, that calling a trap "he" is tantamount to violence, and not wanting to date a bisexual is "biphobic" ... it's a migraine, even Riley's voice gives me a headache.

I have heard of Riley and think they are an utter dick. Riley 'lets lesbians off' if they have previously been raped as apparently thats an ok excuse to not want to suck ladydick, but suggests that these people who have been raped work through their issues as its only a 'good excuse' for a certain amount of time

Riley is disgusting.

Its also fine for people like Riley to want to date female lesbians rather than 'male lesbians' (which used to be a 'joke' but is now reality...). But not ok for lesbian females to only want other females. Its all just stupid and ridiculously homophobic tbh, along with rapey to boot

[DemolitionRed]

I can understand why lesbians are hot under the collar because trans will often declare they are lesbians, which of course, lets heterosexual females off the hook! but from what I've seen, its mainly transvestites who declare themselves as lesbians.

As for the transphobic thing, I believe there is quite a bit of transphobia going on but I also know that I wouldn't have wanted to date a female to male transgender and there are more female to male than male to female so why aren't us heterosexuals getting harassed? I think I can answer my own question. It the lipstick wearing, high heeled... walks like John Wayne, wig wearing, dance in front of the mirror trannies throwing their toys out of the pram and demanding their right to a real lesbian.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

I can understand why lesbians are hot under the collar because trans will often declare they are lesbians, which of course, lets heterosexual females off the hook! but from what I've seen, its mainly transvestites who declare themselves as lesbians.

As for the transphobic thing, I believe there is quite a bit of transphobia going on but I also know that I wouldn't have wanted to date a female to male transgender and there are more female to male than male to female so why aren't us heterosexuals getting harassed? I think I can answer my own question. It the lipstick wearing, high heeled... walks like John Wayne, wig wearing, dance in front of the mirror trannies throwing their toys out of the pram and demanding their right to a real lesbian.

Transmen are female so do not have the sense of entitlement to sex that a lot of males seem to have.
Transwomen will not harass men into sleeping with them as generally, the answer would be a swift 'get ****ed' and that would be the end of it. I cannot imagine shaming a male into sex would go well at all...

Along with what you said, about it being the transvestites that are causing issues, not actual transsexual people.

IMO the problems with this whole thing are BECAUSE transvestites and pervs are suddenly being classed as 'the same' as transsexual people. They are miles apart, and should remain that way. But people are too desperate to appear 'right on' that they are not thinking through the whole thing properly at all. I was one of those people until about a year ago too...what changed for me is discovering the 'cotton ceiling' and hearing from lesbian friends how they have been harassed, outcasted and assaulted for refusing dick. Basically. Everything went from there and now I am about as 'gender critical' as they come. Whilst still acknowledging that having sex dysphoria must be crippling and horrendous to live through. This does not mean though, that I think biological sex is irrelevant. Personally I would be happy with classing actual transsexuals are their chosen sex. But its separating transsexuals from the pisstakers thats the issue. And the pisstakers seem to outnumber 'genuine' cases by a lot at the moment. And thats before even getting started on the new 'craze' of 'transkids' who simply reject sex stereotypes and are then lead to believe that because they do not 'perform' gender correctly, that they are actually 'in the wrong body'

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Transmen are female so do not have the sense of entitlement to sex that a lot of males seem to have.
Transwomen will not harass men into sleeping with them as generally, the answer would be a swift 'get ****ed' and that would be the end of it. I cannot imagine shaming a male into sex would go well at all...

Along with what you said, about it being the transvestites that are causing issues, not actual transsexual people.

IMO the problems with this whole thing are BECAUSE transvestites and pervs are suddenly being classed as 'the same' as transsexual people. They are miles apart, and should remain that way. But people are too desperate to appear 'right on' that they are not thinking through the whole thing properly at all. I was one of those people until about a year ago too...what changed for me is discovering the 'cotton ceiling' and hearing from lesbian friends how they have been harassed, outcasted and assaulted for refusing dick. Basically. Everything went from there and now I am about as 'gender critical' as they come. Whilst still acknowledging that having sex dysphoria must be crippling and horrendous to live through. This does not mean though, that I think biological sex is irrelevant. Personally I would be happy with classing actual transsexuals are their chosen sex. But its separating transsexuals from the pisstakers thats the issue. And the pisstakers seem to outnumber 'genuine' cases by a lot at the moment. And thats before even getting started on the new 'craze' of 'transkids' who simply reject sex stereotypes and are then lead to believe that because they do not 'perform' gender correctly, that they are actually 'in the wrong body'

The whole thing is a perfect example of PC gone mad. Self- identification will undoubtedly be abused, it’s just a case I suspect as to numbers and to what extent. Judging by the vile rhetoric of some It seems likely that any victims of such abuse will simply be written off as ‘collateral damage’ by some intent on putting more emphasis and more value on the rights of those that feel female and/ or those that like to dress female over and above the rights of those born female.

It seems to me that many of those dismissing the views of those born as female don’t actually value the feelings and rights of this important group which suggests to me they care little about females and more about taking on the system to prove a point. The rape of women/girls by men has always been a significant issue worldwide and apparently on the rise. It is definitely not an issue to be dismissed as purely the concerns of ‘radical feminists’. Anyone who thinks that is in my opinion a person of ‘concern’.

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

The whole thing is a perfect example of PC gone mad. Self- identification will undoubtedly be abused, it’s just a case I suspect as to numbers and to what extent. Judging by the vile rhetoric of some It seems likely that any victims of such abuse will simply be written off as ‘collateral damage’ by some intent on putting more emphasis and more value on the rights of those that feel female and/ or those that like to dress female over and above the rights of those born female.

It seems to me that many of those dismissing the views of those born as female don’t actually value the feelings and rights of this important group which suggests to me they care little about females and more about taking on the system to prove a point. The rape of women/girls by men has always been a significant issue worldwide and apparently on the rise. It is definitely not an issue to be dismissed as purely the concerns of ‘radical feminists’. Anyone who thinks that is in my opinion a person of ‘concern’.

We have to be careful here. There was a time when gay men were thought of in the same light as pedophiles. To be gay was to potentially be a pedophile and we should, therefore, guard our children against them.

Some of these people want to prove a point and will happily run amock over the rights or concerns of others but this is the loud-mouthed vocal minority. The majority of male to female transgenders just quietly get on with their life. There is as much risk to transgender women as anyone else.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

We have to be careful here. There was a time when gay men were thought of in the same light as pedophiles. To be gay was to potentially be a pedophile and we should, therefore, guard our children against them.

Some of these people want to prove a point and will happily run amock over the rights or concerns of others but this is the loud-mouthed vocal minority. The majority of male to female transgenders just quietly get on with their life. There is as much risk to transgender women as anyone else.

I don't think it is. I think 'genuine transsexuals' are the minority now. And I think that there should not be any laws changed to protect these mouthy bastards. As the changes in laws will be detrimental to transsexual people, along with women and kids. And some men too though I can't see too many transmen taking advantage as most of them dont want to access male areas/sports/whatever in the first place as there is no advantage for them to do so...unlike 'transwomen' v females.

Even if if IS the vocal minority, it is this vocal minority who are currently getting laws changed. It is this minority who are advising the government and schools on how to handle the issue.

People need to know whats going on, whats actually being pushed for and how blindly accepting it will be detrimental to most people besides some pervs/misogynists/narcissists. And if I will keep being called a terf and transphobic in the meantime, well I can deal with that. its water off a ducks back now tbh as, as I said, even believing biology is relevant in certain areas of life makes you a 'terf'. FFS they even call transsexual people who are gender critical terfs too

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

The whole thing is a perfect example of PC gone mad. Self- identification will undoubtedly be abused, it’s just a case I suspect as to numbers and to what extent. Judging by the vile rhetoric of some It seems likely that any victims of such abuse will simply be written off as ‘collateral damage’ by some intent on putting more emphasis and more value on the rights of those that feel female and/ or those that like to dress female over and above the rights of those born female.

It seems to me that many of those dismissing the views of those born as female don’t actually value the feelings and rights of this important group which suggests to me they care little about females and more about taking on the system to prove a point. The rape of women/girls by men has always been a significant issue worldwide and apparently on the rise. It is definitely not an issue to be dismissed as purely the concerns of ‘radical feminists’. Anyone who thinks that is in my opinion a person of ‘concern’.

Not often I agree with you on the 'PC gone mad' thing but this is actually a case of that I think. Or kind of...its more people being so desperate to be seen as accepting that they do not think about what they are actually fighting for. People see this as no different to gay people fighting for rights...but its very different. gay people were not asking for rights to be taken away from others, in the way that this fight is. I actually do not believe why T is tagged onto LGB, as they are nothing alike. If anything the trans-agenda is actually inherently homophobic and a lot of gay people are waking up to this now (lesbians have been awake for some time generally, as they have suffered the most through it all).

[Vicky.]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZE-JoOQ9s7c

Same woman who I posted before. Taking on Rileys ridiculous views.

[Oliver_W]

I love Magdelen <3

[Vicky.]

Yes, she is amazing. Only discovered her a few months back and she speaks total sense. Gets a LOT of abuse though, for being a lesbian who is attracted to females (as lesbians are...) rather than 'male lesbians' and making no secret of it

[Oliver_W]

I don't know if any of you know of/like Blaire White, but she's a right-leaning trans youtuber, who said something like "I kind of wish we were back in the days when people didn't know what transpeople were, when we'd just use our bathrooms and in a majority of cases, no-one would think anything of it."
Such an attitude is much less harmful than the screeching idiots trying to get laws changed all over the place.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

I don't know if any of you know of/like Blaire White, but she's a right-leaning trans youtuber, who said something like "I kind of wish we were back in the days when people didn't know what transpeople were, when we'd just use our bathrooms and in a majority of cases, no-one would think anything of it."
Such an attitude is much less harmful than the screeching idiots trying to get laws changed all over the place.

Yes, this is a common view among 'genuine transsexuals' actually. I know 3 transwomen and every one of them thinks this. They reckon the activists being awkward (and often violent) ***** are doing much more harm than good and are only out for themselves (often, transactivists are just like any other guy...but expect to be 'treat' as women anyway). However these transsexuals would be known as 'truscum' in the community now. As they are actual people with dysphoria. Which is a bad thing these days apparently. One should be happy waving their 'female penis' at lesbians and demanding to be let into womens changing rooms rather than trying to live their lives quietly and happily

[Vicky.]

Another 2 females have been physically attacked by males at the Anarchist Book Fair yesterday

Seems another male defended them, and of course twitter is up in arms about the 'bald man' attacking 'women'(defending females against males...)

The females were handing out leaflets to inform people what the changes to the law will actually mean for people. So basically, they were attacked for telling people the truth.

https://twitter.com/anokbookfair/sta...28994937495554
https://twitter.com/olivia4hersham/s...18411290828800

More info on there, plus the leaflets they were giving out^

------

https://sages.org.uk/publications/sages-factsheet.html

Website factsheet also, which is worth a read. Seems transactivists don't want people knowing whats actually going on. What a shock. Why, because most people would disagree with it if they knew whats actually being fought for?

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Another 2 females have been physically attacked by males at the Anarchist Book Fair yesterday

Seems another male defended them, and of course twitter is up in arms about the 'bald man' attacking 'women'(defending females against males...)

The females were handing out leaflets to inform people what the changes to the law will actually mean for people. So basically, they were attacked for telling people the truth.

Got to be honest Vicky, at this point you're starting to sound like a bit of an extremist? Like... other than the exact details of the people involved, you sound EXACTLY like TheTruth . I surely can't be the only one seeing the irony in this...

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Got to be honest Vicky, at this point you're starting to sound like a bit of an extremist? Like... other than the exact details of the people involved, you sound EXACTLY like TheTruth . I surely can't be the only one seeing the irony in this...

By pointing out that females keep being attacked by males? And that this law is ill thought out? OK

I know some lefties don't like people arguing against this...but meh. I can deal with that too. Am a leftie in all other respects I think. I just do not believe males should be in female spaces* (or vice versa) which is exactly what this law would allow...and even before the law we have rapists in female prisons, so it would only get worse

*exceptions for those who have undergone reassignment surgery though

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

By pointing out that females keep being attacked by males? And that this law is ill thought out? OK

The laser-focus on the selective use of adjectives in an obviously pointed and agenda-driven manner. "These MALES, these FEMALES, this OTHER MALE. MALES this, MALES that, look at what these MALE THINGS are doing".

It's just the exact flipside of The Truth's rhetoric about women and completely disregards and eschews individualism .

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

The laser-focus on the selective use of adjectives in an obviously pointed and agenda-driven manner. "These MALES, these FEMALES, this OTHER MALE. MALES this, MALES that, look at what these MALE THINGS are doing".

It's just the exact flipside of The Truth's rhetoric about women and completely disregards and eschews individualism .

I have to use males and females though. As 'woman' and 'man' seem to have different meanings these days. Especially on threads about trans stuff...

[Vicky.]

I also do think the focus should be on the fact that its males attacking females tbh (in this instance). Trying to shut them up when they have valid concerns. Its kind of...just the norm. But dressed up as people 'defending' themselves against 'hate speech'. Because violence against people speaking is absolutely the answer...and these very same males are the ones who will be able to go into any female area if this law is passed.

Don't worry, I also have concerns about transmen going into mens changing rooms and such, though my concerns about that are more a privacy thing than a safety one. I just don't believe it will happen...especially not as often as these violent males will force themselves into female areas.

[Vicky.]

'Cis' is pigeonholing people too tbh.

I don't identify as 'cis' and I don't believe many others would if they knew what it actually meant. I dont conform to 'feminine' stereotypes. I don't have a 'gender identity' at all and think 'gender' is all bollocks and a social construct. Which makes me technically a-gender, or non-binary, which in turn puts me under the 'trans umbrella'...I actually think 90%+ of people would be under the umbrella if they knew what all the bull**** terms meant.

The only way 'non-binary' and such is 'special' is if it is assumed everyone else is 'cis'. When thats not the case at all.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

'Cis' is pigeonholing people too tbh.

I don't identify as 'cis' and I don't believe many others would if they knew what it actually meant. I dont conform to 'feminine' stereotypes. I don't have a 'gender identity' at all and think 'gender' is all bollocks and a social construct. Which makes me technically a-gender, or non-binary, which in turn puts me under the 'trans umbrella'...I actually think 90%+ of people would be under the umbrella if they knew what all the bull**** terms meant.

The only way 'non-binary' and such is 'special' is if it is assumed everyone else is 'cis'. When thats not the case at all.

Exactly! It's all bull**** and that's why we shouldn't play into the hands of it by creating "us" and "others" in any circumstance.

Here is the only accurate description of what happened if trying to use loose terms rather than specific motivations:

"Some individuals attacked some other individuals while they were doing some stuff specific to them, because those individuals happened to take personal issue with those things". That's it, that is the entire story.

[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

and think 'gender' is all bollocks and a social construct

Which aspects of gender roles are societal, rather than being driven by biology/neurology?

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

Which aspects of gender roles are societal, rather than being driven by biology/neurology?

Every bit of it

Do you think that people with vaginas tend to wear dresses and play with dolls for biological reasons, or because society tells them thats 'how to girl' and pushes it on them from birth?

I would argue that sex is biology. And that sex cannot be changed. Yes there are biological differences between sexes. Bit none of this is anything to do with 'gender' or 'trans' and no trans person can really 'feel like a woman/man' as they are not a woman/man so cannot know how a woman/man feels. And that most women/men do not feel 'like women/men' they just feel like themselves. Basically in short, sex is a biological reality, not a feeling inside someones head.

And gender is entirely social. And no matter what your sex, you are free to do whatever the hell you like with your hairdo, makeup clothes and whatnot. But changing these things does not mean you have actually changed sex (an a hell of a lot of transsexuals agree with this too) and to pretend that this does mean you have changed sex is detrimental to everyone.

What parts of gender roles do you think are down to biology/neurology?

[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

What parts of gender roles do you think are down to biology/neurology?

Basically all of it? I'm not gonna talk about clothes and makeup because fashions change and have changed over time, while most aspects of gender roles have remained solid.

Males and females are biologically and neurologically different, and these differences are what inform the differences in the roles males and females generally take in society.

Males have about 7% more grey matter in their brains, and in the cerebellum men have more connections between hemispheres, which means an increased ability to translate perception, and for motorskill and ability. Along with the on average higher bone density and muscle mass, this makes males better suited for physical work, and which is why back in our primitive days, men were the hunters.

Meanwhile, females have about 10% more white matter in their brains, and more connections between frontal lobes, which translates to greater empathy, social skills, and nurturing behaviours. This is why women are better suited for staying at home and raising the kids, while men go out and earn the daily bread.

And then there's hormones to consider. Higher testosterone in males drives behaviours such as competitiveness, higher sex drive, more aggression, and providing resources to attract potential mates. Females have more estrogen, which fuels the instincts to nurture and emphasize. Which could explain why courses and careers geared around helping others (nursing, child care, etc.) We even could touch briefly on the makeup thing, as being attractive helps females attract a mate who can provide children and resources.

At the end of the day, we are animals, and we are the products of biology.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

But not all trans are body dysmorphic. Are people who enjoy ‘gender expression’ or those who are ‘gender nonconformist’ and ‘genderqueer’ also suffering from mental illness? There are so many different types of trans people and not all of them have gender dysphoria.

Trassexuals are.

Trangenders without dysphoria simply enjoy dressing a certain way and simply saying they are women. Which is utter bollocks tbh, people like this are just femine males, or masculine females.

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

Basically all of it? I'm not gonna talk about clothes and makeup because fashions change and have changed over time, while most aspects of gender roles have remained solid.

Males and females are biologically and neurologically different, and these differences are what inform the differences in the roles males and females generally take in society.

Males have about 7% more grey matter in their brains, and in the cerebellum men have more connections between hemispheres, which means an increased ability to translate perception, and for motorskill and ability. Along with the on average higher bone density and muscle mass, this makes males better suited for physical work, and which is why back in our primitive days, men were the hunters.

Meanwhile, females have about 10% more white matter in their brains, and more connections between frontal lobes, which translates to greater empathy, social skills, and nurturing behaviours. This is why women are better suited for staying at home and raising the kids, while men go out and earn the daily bread.

And then there's hormones to consider. Higher testosterone in males drives behaviours such as competitiveness, higher sex drive, more aggression, and providing resources to attract potential mates. Females have more estrogen, which fuels the instincts to nurture and emphasize. Which could explain why courses and careers geared around helping others (nursing, child care, etc.) We even could touch briefly on the makeup thing, as being attractive helps females attract a mate who can provide children and resources.

At the end of the day, we are animals, and we are the products of biology.

Everything you have just mentioned, is a result of biological differences between the sexes though. Nothing to do with 'gender'? Yes male and female people are different. Thats kind of my point. Males cannot be female. And females cannot be male. As its all just biology.

For example, you mention women being better suited for nurturing and caring professions. A male who choses a caring profession, does not become a woman. He is just a man who likes caring.

There is so much crossover in our brains...that sexed bodies are pretty much the only proper difference between males and females.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog...-compassionate

Yesterday, journalists at Huffington Post Live asked me to comment on whether women are more compassionate than men. Scientists in general tend to cringe at any strong black-and-white statements of this kind since we know there is no data to support such strong claims. If you ask a neuroscientist to distinguish a male from a female brain, for example, s/he would have a difficult time doing so. Although differences have been detected (for example, women appear to make greater use of both hemispheres of the brain and therefore have a slightly thicker corpus callosum—the part of the brain that bridges the two hemispheres), the differences are subtle and there is no single area of the brain that we can say clearly distinguishes a male brain from a female brain.