[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

The whole thing is a perfect example of PC gone mad. Self- identification will undoubtedly be abused, it’s just a case I suspect as to numbers and to what extent. Judging by the vile rhetoric of some It seems likely that any victims of such abuse will simply be written off as ‘collateral damage’ by some intent on putting more emphasis and more value on the rights of those that feel female and/ or those that like to dress female over and above the rights of those born female.

It seems to me that many of those dismissing the views of those born as female don’t actually value the feelings and rights of this important group which suggests to me they care little about females and more about taking on the system to prove a point. The rape of women/girls by men has always been a significant issue worldwide and apparently on the rise. It is definitely not an issue to be dismissed as purely the concerns of ‘radical feminists’. Anyone who thinks that is in my opinion a person of ‘concern’.

We have to be careful here. There was a time when gay men were thought of in the same light as pedophiles. To be gay was to potentially be a pedophile and we should, therefore, guard our children against them.

Some of these people want to prove a point and will happily run amock over the rights or concerns of others but this is the loud-mouthed vocal minority. The majority of male to female transgenders just quietly get on with their life. There is as much risk to transgender women as anyone else.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

We have to be careful here. There was a time when gay men were thought of in the same light as pedophiles. To be gay was to potentially be a pedophile and we should, therefore, guard our children against them.

Some of these people want to prove a point and will happily run amock over the rights or concerns of others but this is the loud-mouthed vocal minority. The majority of male to female transgenders just quietly get on with their life. There is as much risk to transgender women as anyone else.

I don't think it is. I think 'genuine transsexuals' are the minority now. And I think that there should not be any laws changed to protect these mouthy bastards. As the changes in laws will be detrimental to transsexual people, along with women and kids. And some men too though I can't see too many transmen taking advantage as most of them dont want to access male areas/sports/whatever in the first place as there is no advantage for them to do so...unlike 'transwomen' v females.

Even if if IS the vocal minority, it is this vocal minority who are currently getting laws changed. It is this minority who are advising the government and schools on how to handle the issue.

People need to know whats going on, whats actually being pushed for and how blindly accepting it will be detrimental to most people besides some pervs/misogynists/narcissists. And if I will keep being called a terf and transphobic in the meantime, well I can deal with that. its water off a ducks back now tbh as, as I said, even believing biology is relevant in certain areas of life makes you a 'terf'. FFS they even call transsexual people who are gender critical terfs too

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

I don't think it is. I think 'genuine transsexuals' are the minority now. And I think that there should not be any laws changed to protect these mouthy bastards. As the changes in laws will be detrimental to transsexual people, along with women and kids. And some men too though I can't see too many transmen taking advantage as most of them dont want to access male areas/sports/whatever in the first place as there is no advantage for them to do so...unlike 'transwomen' v females.

Even if if IS the vocal minority, it is this vocal minority who are currently getting laws changed. It is this minority who are advising the government and schools on how to handle the issue.

People need to know whats going on, whats actually being pushed for and how blindly accepting it will be detrimental to most people besides some pervs/misogynists/narcissists. And if I will keep being called a terf and transphobic in the meantime, well I can deal with that. its water off a ducks back now tbh as, as I said, even believing biology is relevant in certain areas of life makes you a 'terf'. FFS they even call transsexual people who are gender critical terfs too

But like TS has pointed out, its the minority who are being mouthy bastards and not the majority.

Having worked in the club scene, the transsexuals I've known have been very gender-critical, to a point of unfairness. They like to point out that they are a woman with a cherry on top whilst others aren't.

I've yet to meet a misogynist transexual or transvestite. They normally adore everything that is considered female and feminine.

There are transvestite pervs but transvestite pervs tend to like men, not women. Stunners was full of transvestite pervs and it was full of men who considered themselves straight but wanted a quick shag with something that looked relatively female.
Crossdressers tend to be straight. They just like the feel of female clothes on their bodies but tend to have straight girlfriends and wives who are cool with that.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

But like TS has pointed out, its the minority who are being mouthy bastards and not the majority.

Having worked in the club scene, the transsexuals I've known have been very gender-critical, to a point of unfairness. They like to point out that they are a woman with a cherry on top whilst others aren't.

I've yet to meet a misogynist transexual or transvestite. They normally adore everything that is considered female and feminine.

There are transvestite pervs but transvestite pervs tend to like men, not women. Stunners was full of transvestite pervs and it was full of men who considered themselves straight but wanted a quick shag with something that looked relatively female.
Crossdressers tend to be straight. They just like the feel of female clothes on their bodies but tend to have straight girlfriends and wives who are cool with that.

Yes, from my experience (I know 3 transwomen in real life and talk to a fair few online too) actual transsexual people do NOT think they are actually female and would also benefit from 'gender' being abolished completely. They also kind of take offense when others tell them they actually ARE women as they say a transwoman is a transwoman, not a woman. Its different. And thats fine.

The transsexual cause (and also intersex is appropriated a lot in the arguments) has basically been hijacked by a bunch of idiots with their own agenda.

BUT noone is challenging this

Transpeople who challenge it are shouted down by the very same 'activists' who claim to be fighting for them. they are called truscum and denounced by their own communities ffs. Women who challenge it are shouted down and threatened with rape and violence (indeed some actually are attacked). Men who challenge it are just ignored...but the men who challenge it are fewer as it hasn't personally affected them yet.

Its all a mess. yet these activists are actually consulting with the government, and schools. The same group who attacked (and defended the attackers) the 60 year old (trans health for london or whatever the hell they call themselves) are the ones 'advising Maria Miller on this ridiculous new law.

Bonkers. And I am glad the gender critical voices seem to be getting more common. As as soon as people think a little deeper into it, they see it all for the bull**** it is.

There are transvestite pervs but transvestite pervs tend to like men, not women.

Well its women, and more specifically lesbians who are bearing the brunt of this. How does that tally? Every lesbian I know (which is quite a few, as I drink on the gay scene) has had at least one negative experience with a 'transwoman' who is a 'lesbian'. I didn't even know about this until about a year ago as I was very much in the 'transwomen are women' camp and would have said any other view was transphobic. Since I became gender critical, these people have confided in me...and actually said they never said anything before as I would cry 'transphobe' like the other people they told. Thats sad..it really is

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Yes, from my experience (I know 3 transwomen in real life and talk to a fair few online too) actual transsexual people do NOT think they are actually female and would also benefit from 'gender' being abolished completely. They also kind of take offense when others tell them they actually ARE women as they say a transwoman is a transwoman, not a woman. Its different. And thats fine.

The transsexual cause (and also intersex is appropriated a lot in the arguments) has basically been hijacked by a bunch of idiots with their own agenda.

BUT noone is challenging this

Transpeople who challenge it are shouted down by the very same 'activists' who claim to be fighting for them. they are called truscum and denounced by their own communities ffs. Women who challenge it are shouted down and threatened with rape and violence (indeed some actually are attacked). Men who challenge it are just ignored...but the men who challenge it are fewer as it hasn't personally affected them yet.

Its all a mess. yet these activists are actually consulting with the government, and schools. The same group who attacked the 60 year old (trans health for london or whatever the hell they call themselves) are the ones 'advising Maria Miller on this ridiculous new law.

Bonkers. And I am glad the gender critical voices seem to be getting more common. As as soon as people think a little deeper into it, they see it all for the bull**** it is.



Well its women, and more specifically lesbians who are bearing the brunt of this. How does that tally? Every lesbian I know (which is quite a few, as I drink on the gay scene) has had at least one negative experience with a 'transwoman' who is a 'lesbian'. I didn't even know about this until about a year ago as I was very much in the 'transwomen are women' camp and would have said any other view was transphobic. Since I became gender critical, these people have confided in me...and actually said they never said anything before as I would cry 'transphobe' like the other people they told. Thats sad..it really is

Or its lesbian women who are complaining about it. Depends on where you spend your nights out but I'll bet you plenty of men get the come on from this particular type of girl brigade. I've been asked out on several occasions in the past by transvestites. Its never been a problem when I've said I'm not interested. What I didn't say is, "I'd never date a trani because I only date men and your not a real man." Perhaps that's the mistake gay girls are making when they are trying to put these trans females off. I've always got along fine with mixed genders but then I've never shown revulsion. The ones I've been acquainted to have always been pleasant and polite.

I've also hung out in gay bars but generally, I find gay men much more fun and friendly than gay women. Gay women generally find me being bi, offensive and for some reason, threatening, even though I've never considered coming on to a lesbian. Gay women are probably my least selective group to be amongst because they seem to be so intent on protecting themselves from the outside world, that they to have difficulty chilling out.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

Or its lesbian women who are complaining about it. Depends on where you spend your nights out but I'll bet you plenty of men get the come on from this particular type of girl brigade. I've been asked out on several occasions in the past by transvestites. Its never been a problem when I've said I'm not interested. What I didn't say is, "I'd never date a trani because I only date men and your not a real man." Perhaps that's the mistake gay girls are making when they are trying to put these trans females off. I've always got along fine with mixed genders but then I've never shown revulsion. The ones I've been acquainted to have always been pleasant and polite.

I've also hung out in gay bars but generally, I find gay men much more fun and friendly than gay women. Gay women generally find me being bi, offensive and for some reason, threatening, even though I've never considered coming on to a lesbian. Gay women are probably my least selective group to be amongst because they seem to be so intent on protecting themselves from the outside world, that they to have difficulty chilling out.

Hmm maybe. My husband gets come onto by so many gay men when we are out, he finds it hilarious and they almost always back off when he says he is straight The drag queens though, will pester and pester. But he doesn't feel intimidated by it

When 'transwomen' (or straight men who like wearing dresses, not genuine transsexuals) are coming onto lesbians...it seems they do not take no for an answer...and the women find that intimidating. Hell in one case, the person 'passed' as female and actually did not reveal that they were a 'person with a penis' until they had the lesbian alone at her house. That completely wrong. This person physically assaulted the lesbian, when the lesbian said that she did not shag people with penises as she was gay. The argument was, you were attracted to me until you realized I was trans, bigot! And they did not appear to understand that lesbians just do not suck dick. Apparently another part of the argument was that lesbians use dildos, so this was no different. Which is very homophobic tbh.

Lesbians really are bearing the brunt of this 'movement' IMO. And when they speak out, they are branded 'transphobic' as 'transwomen are women'. Bizzare. Sexualities are transphobic because people are attracted to a certain sex and apparently sex doesn't matter at all, 'gender identity' does. Both homophobic and (I don't think this is really a thing but for the sake of argument) heterophobic.

Gay women are probably my least selective group to be amongst because they seem to be so intent on protecting themselves from the outside world, that they to have difficulty chilling out.

This is likely to be because their sexualities are attacked over and over. Along with them being physically attacked/intimidated on a regular basis, just for being gay. The stories I have heard about how lesbians are treat in general would curl toes tbh.

Gay men are much more accepted by society than lesbians are.

Read up on the 'cotton ceiling' for how these 'transwomen' (note, not transsexuals) who are attracted to females view lesbians. Its sick.

https://terfisaslur.com/cotton-ceiling/
http://sjwiki.org/wiki/Cotton_ceiling
[T]he cotton ceiling [is] us[ed] to challenge cis lesbians’ tendency to support trans causes generally but draw the line at sleeping with trans women or including trans lesbians in their sexual communities.[5]

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Hmm maybe. My husband gets come onto by so many gay men when we are out, he finds it hilarious and they almost always back off when he says he is straight The drag queens though, will pester and pester. But he doesn't feel intimidated by it

Mine too, but like your husband, it doesn't bother him. If we go in a gay bar the men think I'm his faghag! I actually enjoy them trying to come on to him. I guess that makes me a little sick

This is likely to be because their sexualities are attacked over and over. Along with them being physically attacked/intimidated on a regular basis, just for being gay. The stories I have heard about how lesbians are treat in general would curl toes tbh.

Is that because lesbians are much more private? gay men tend to be out there in all their glory. All of us love a gay male friend because they are so much fun. Lesbians on the other hand, generally aren't a lot of fun to be around.

I would also say that transsexuals and transvestites are attacked a lot, especially physically. If you look at suicide rates of transexuals, its a lot higher than the average gay person.

One things for sure from this thread... you and I haven't led sheltered lives