[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

I can understand why lesbians are hot under the collar because trans will often declare they are lesbians, which of course, lets heterosexual females off the hook! but from what I've seen, its mainly transvestites who declare themselves as lesbians.

As for the transphobic thing, I believe there is quite a bit of transphobia going on but I also know that I wouldn't have wanted to date a female to male transgender and there are more female to male than male to female so why aren't us heterosexuals getting harassed? I think I can answer my own question. It the lipstick wearing, high heeled... walks like John Wayne, wig wearing, dance in front of the mirror trannies throwing their toys out of the pram and demanding their right to a real lesbian.

Transmen are female so do not have the sense of entitlement to sex that a lot of males seem to have.
Transwomen will not harass men into sleeping with them as generally, the answer would be a swift 'get ****ed' and that would be the end of it. I cannot imagine shaming a male into sex would go well at all...

Along with what you said, about it being the transvestites that are causing issues, not actual transsexual people.

IMO the problems with this whole thing are BECAUSE transvestites and pervs are suddenly being classed as 'the same' as transsexual people. They are miles apart, and should remain that way. But people are too desperate to appear 'right on' that they are not thinking through the whole thing properly at all. I was one of those people until about a year ago too...what changed for me is discovering the 'cotton ceiling' and hearing from lesbian friends how they have been harassed, outcasted and assaulted for refusing dick. Basically. Everything went from there and now I am about as 'gender critical' as they come. Whilst still acknowledging that having sex dysphoria must be crippling and horrendous to live through. This does not mean though, that I think biological sex is irrelevant. Personally I would be happy with classing actual transsexuals are their chosen sex. But its separating transsexuals from the pisstakers thats the issue. And the pisstakers seem to outnumber 'genuine' cases by a lot at the moment. And thats before even getting started on the new 'craze' of 'transkids' who simply reject sex stereotypes and are then lead to believe that because they do not 'perform' gender correctly, that they are actually 'in the wrong body'

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Transmen are female so do not have the sense of entitlement to sex that a lot of males seem to have.
Transwomen will not harass men into sleeping with them as generally, the answer would be a swift 'get ****ed' and that would be the end of it. I cannot imagine shaming a male into sex would go well at all...

Along with what you said, about it being the transvestites that are causing issues, not actual transsexual people.

IMO the problems with this whole thing are BECAUSE transvestites and pervs are suddenly being classed as 'the same' as transsexual people. They are miles apart, and should remain that way. But people are too desperate to appear 'right on' that they are not thinking through the whole thing properly at all. I was one of those people until about a year ago too...what changed for me is discovering the 'cotton ceiling' and hearing from lesbian friends how they have been harassed, outcasted and assaulted for refusing dick. Basically. Everything went from there and now I am about as 'gender critical' as they come. Whilst still acknowledging that having sex dysphoria must be crippling and horrendous to live through. This does not mean though, that I think biological sex is irrelevant. Personally I would be happy with classing actual transsexuals are their chosen sex. But its separating transsexuals from the pisstakers thats the issue. And the pisstakers seem to outnumber 'genuine' cases by a lot at the moment. And thats before even getting started on the new 'craze' of 'transkids' who simply reject sex stereotypes and are then lead to believe that because they do not 'perform' gender correctly, that they are actually 'in the wrong body'

The whole thing is a perfect example of PC gone mad. Self- identification will undoubtedly be abused, it’s just a case I suspect as to numbers and to what extent. Judging by the vile rhetoric of some It seems likely that any victims of such abuse will simply be written off as ‘collateral damage’ by some intent on putting more emphasis and more value on the rights of those that feel female and/ or those that like to dress female over and above the rights of those born female.

It seems to me that many of those dismissing the views of those born as female don’t actually value the feelings and rights of this important group which suggests to me they care little about females and more about taking on the system to prove a point. The rape of women/girls by men has always been a significant issue worldwide and apparently on the rise. It is definitely not an issue to be dismissed as purely the concerns of ‘radical feminists’. Anyone who thinks that is in my opinion a person of ‘concern’.

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

The whole thing is a perfect example of PC gone mad. Self- identification will undoubtedly be abused, it’s just a case I suspect as to numbers and to what extent. Judging by the vile rhetoric of some It seems likely that any victims of such abuse will simply be written off as ‘collateral damage’ by some intent on putting more emphasis and more value on the rights of those that feel female and/ or those that like to dress female over and above the rights of those born female.

It seems to me that many of those dismissing the views of those born as female don’t actually value the feelings and rights of this important group which suggests to me they care little about females and more about taking on the system to prove a point. The rape of women/girls by men has always been a significant issue worldwide and apparently on the rise. It is definitely not an issue to be dismissed as purely the concerns of ‘radical feminists’. Anyone who thinks that is in my opinion a person of ‘concern’.

We have to be careful here. There was a time when gay men were thought of in the same light as pedophiles. To be gay was to potentially be a pedophile and we should, therefore, guard our children against them.

Some of these people want to prove a point and will happily run amock over the rights or concerns of others but this is the loud-mouthed vocal minority. The majority of male to female transgenders just quietly get on with their life. There is as much risk to transgender women as anyone else.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

We have to be careful here. There was a time when gay men were thought of in the same light as pedophiles. To be gay was to potentially be a pedophile and we should, therefore, guard our children against them.

Some of these people want to prove a point and will happily run amock over the rights or concerns of others but this is the loud-mouthed vocal minority. The majority of male to female transgenders just quietly get on with their life. There is as much risk to transgender women as anyone else.

I don't think it is. I think 'genuine transsexuals' are the minority now. And I think that there should not be any laws changed to protect these mouthy bastards. As the changes in laws will be detrimental to transsexual people, along with women and kids. And some men too though I can't see too many transmen taking advantage as most of them dont want to access male areas/sports/whatever in the first place as there is no advantage for them to do so...unlike 'transwomen' v females.

Even if if IS the vocal minority, it is this vocal minority who are currently getting laws changed. It is this minority who are advising the government and schools on how to handle the issue.

People need to know whats going on, whats actually being pushed for and how blindly accepting it will be detrimental to most people besides some pervs/misogynists/narcissists. And if I will keep being called a terf and transphobic in the meantime, well I can deal with that. its water off a ducks back now tbh as, as I said, even believing biology is relevant in certain areas of life makes you a 'terf'. FFS they even call transsexual people who are gender critical terfs too

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

I don't think it is. I think 'genuine transsexuals' are the minority now. And I think that there should not be any laws changed to protect these mouthy bastards. As the changes in laws will be detrimental to transsexual people, along with women and kids. And some men too though I can't see too many transmen taking advantage as most of them dont want to access male areas/sports/whatever in the first place as there is no advantage for them to do so...unlike 'transwomen' v females.

Even if if IS the vocal minority, it is this vocal minority who are currently getting laws changed. It is this minority who are advising the government and schools on how to handle the issue.

People need to know whats going on, whats actually being pushed for and how blindly accepting it will be detrimental to most people besides some pervs/misogynists/narcissists. And if I will keep being called a terf and transphobic in the meantime, well I can deal with that. its water off a ducks back now tbh as, as I said, even believing biology is relevant in certain areas of life makes you a 'terf'. FFS they even call transsexual people who are gender critical terfs too

But like TS has pointed out, its the minority who are being mouthy bastards and not the majority.

Having worked in the club scene, the transsexuals I've known have been very gender-critical, to a point of unfairness. They like to point out that they are a woman with a cherry on top whilst others aren't.

I've yet to meet a misogynist transexual or transvestite. They normally adore everything that is considered female and feminine.

There are transvestite pervs but transvestite pervs tend to like men, not women. Stunners was full of transvestite pervs and it was full of men who considered themselves straight but wanted a quick shag with something that looked relatively female.
Crossdressers tend to be straight. They just like the feel of female clothes on their bodies but tend to have straight girlfriends and wives who are cool with that.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

But like TS has pointed out, its the minority who are being mouthy bastards and not the majority.

Having worked in the club scene, the transsexuals I've known have been very gender-critical, to a point of unfairness. They like to point out that they are a woman with a cherry on top whilst others aren't.

I've yet to meet a misogynist transexual or transvestite. They normally adore everything that is considered female and feminine.

There are transvestite pervs but transvestite pervs tend to like men, not women. Stunners was full of transvestite pervs and it was full of men who considered themselves straight but wanted a quick shag with something that looked relatively female.
Crossdressers tend to be straight. They just like the feel of female clothes on their bodies but tend to have straight girlfriends and wives who are cool with that.

Yes, from my experience (I know 3 transwomen in real life and talk to a fair few online too) actual transsexual people do NOT think they are actually female and would also benefit from 'gender' being abolished completely. They also kind of take offense when others tell them they actually ARE women as they say a transwoman is a transwoman, not a woman. Its different. And thats fine.

The transsexual cause (and also intersex is appropriated a lot in the arguments) has basically been hijacked by a bunch of idiots with their own agenda.

BUT noone is challenging this

Transpeople who challenge it are shouted down by the very same 'activists' who claim to be fighting for them. they are called truscum and denounced by their own communities ffs. Women who challenge it are shouted down and threatened with rape and violence (indeed some actually are attacked). Men who challenge it are just ignored...but the men who challenge it are fewer as it hasn't personally affected them yet.

Its all a mess. yet these activists are actually consulting with the government, and schools. The same group who attacked (and defended the attackers) the 60 year old (trans health for london or whatever the hell they call themselves) are the ones 'advising Maria Miller on this ridiculous new law.

Bonkers. And I am glad the gender critical voices seem to be getting more common. As as soon as people think a little deeper into it, they see it all for the bull**** it is.

There are transvestite pervs but transvestite pervs tend to like men, not women.

Well its women, and more specifically lesbians who are bearing the brunt of this. How does that tally? Every lesbian I know (which is quite a few, as I drink on the gay scene) has had at least one negative experience with a 'transwoman' who is a 'lesbian'. I didn't even know about this until about a year ago as I was very much in the 'transwomen are women' camp and would have said any other view was transphobic. Since I became gender critical, these people have confided in me...and actually said they never said anything before as I would cry 'transphobe' like the other people they told. Thats sad..it really is

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Yes, from my experience (I know 3 transwomen in real life and talk to a fair few online too) actual transsexual people do NOT think they are actually female and would also benefit from 'gender' being abolished completely. They also kind of take offense when others tell them they actually ARE women as they say a transwoman is a transwoman, not a woman. Its different. And thats fine.

The transsexual cause (and also intersex is appropriated a lot in the arguments) has basically been hijacked by a bunch of idiots with their own agenda.

BUT noone is challenging this

Transpeople who challenge it are shouted down by the very same 'activists' who claim to be fighting for them. they are called truscum and denounced by their own communities ffs. Women who challenge it are shouted down and threatened with rape and violence (indeed some actually are attacked). Men who challenge it are just ignored...but the men who challenge it are fewer as it hasn't personally affected them yet.

Its all a mess. yet these activists are actually consulting with the government, and schools. The same group who attacked the 60 year old (trans health for london or whatever the hell they call themselves) are the ones 'advising Maria Miller on this ridiculous new law.

Bonkers. And I am glad the gender critical voices seem to be getting more common. As as soon as people think a little deeper into it, they see it all for the bull**** it is.



Well its women, and more specifically lesbians who are bearing the brunt of this. How does that tally? Every lesbian I know (which is quite a few, as I drink on the gay scene) has had at least one negative experience with a 'transwoman' who is a 'lesbian'. I didn't even know about this until about a year ago as I was very much in the 'transwomen are women' camp and would have said any other view was transphobic. Since I became gender critical, these people have confided in me...and actually said they never said anything before as I would cry 'transphobe' like the other people they told. Thats sad..it really is

Or its lesbian women who are complaining about it. Depends on where you spend your nights out but I'll bet you plenty of men get the come on from this particular type of girl brigade. I've been asked out on several occasions in the past by transvestites. Its never been a problem when I've said I'm not interested. What I didn't say is, "I'd never date a trani because I only date men and your not a real man." Perhaps that's the mistake gay girls are making when they are trying to put these trans females off. I've always got along fine with mixed genders but then I've never shown revulsion. The ones I've been acquainted to have always been pleasant and polite.

I've also hung out in gay bars but generally, I find gay men much more fun and friendly than gay women. Gay women generally find me being bi, offensive and for some reason, threatening, even though I've never considered coming on to a lesbian. Gay women are probably my least selective group to be amongst because they seem to be so intent on protecting themselves from the outside world, that they to have difficulty chilling out.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

The whole thing is a perfect example of PC gone mad. Self- identification will undoubtedly be abused, it’s just a case I suspect as to numbers and to what extent. Judging by the vile rhetoric of some It seems likely that any victims of such abuse will simply be written off as ‘collateral damage’ by some intent on putting more emphasis and more value on the rights of those that feel female and/ or those that like to dress female over and above the rights of those born female.

It seems to me that many of those dismissing the views of those born as female don’t actually value the feelings and rights of this important group which suggests to me they care little about females and more about taking on the system to prove a point. The rape of women/girls by men has always been a significant issue worldwide and apparently on the rise. It is definitely not an issue to be dismissed as purely the concerns of ‘radical feminists’. Anyone who thinks that is in my opinion a person of ‘concern’.

Not often I agree with you on the 'PC gone mad' thing but this is actually a case of that I think. Or kind of...its more people being so desperate to be seen as accepting that they do not think about what they are actually fighting for. People see this as no different to gay people fighting for rights...but its very different. gay people were not asking for rights to be taken away from others, in the way that this fight is. I actually do not believe why T is tagged onto LGB, as they are nothing alike. If anything the trans-agenda is actually inherently homophobic and a lot of gay people are waking up to this now (lesbians have been awake for some time generally, as they have suffered the most through it all).