[Ammi]

...(..from the vid...)...his hand definitely went to the area of her breast, it did look as though he may have touched her ..but when he withdrew his hand, he was holding her hand so looked more as if he was taking her hand, which he then kissed...it could have been though that he also did touch her breast...its so difficult without audio as well...

[GoldHeart]

Originally Posted by Northern Monkey

I’m so glad i’m settled down now.Going out on the pull would be a minefield nowadays.

You'd get arrested just for looking at someone "the wrong way"

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by GoldHeart

You'd get arrested just for looking at someone "the wrong way"

Yes all those men arrested for looking left, shocking

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by GoldHeart

You'd get arrested just for looking at someone "the wrong way"

I was joking when I responded to you with "can't even breathe without being accused of rape" but it seems I had it bang on.

[Vicky.]

like you don't want to acknowledge that it happens?.

Of course it happens. It just does not happen anywhere near the amount that MRA types will claim it does. Its impossible to have a conversation about rape/sexual assault/harassment without someone popping up to remind us false accusations exist (and that there are loads of them apparently) and that sometimes (even rarer..but made out to be common again) women rape/sexually abuse too, and of course..that not ALL men rape people! Along with the ridiculous wails of 'we cannot even look at women these days without being accused of sexual harassment'

Just gets tiring and boring after a while, seeing exactly the same sequence go down time and time again. So yeah, it annoys people and makes them angry. What also makes people angry, is the actual stats on sexual assault/rape. And how often the abusers get away with it. But still, we must think of the 2 men per year that get took to court with false accusations, over the thousands of victims of actual abuse.

[Vicky.]

Would love to see where niamh said false reports do not happen.

Its a 'battle of the sexes with blame' as stats tell us that its..a battle of the sexes, given 98% of sexual abuse is committed by males. If it was 50/50 or something yet all that got spoke of was males abusing then I would take your point. But its nowhere near that.

Edit. Anyway, done this dance before many times and CBA as it goes in circles. Not even sure why I replied tbh. But won't be replying to the 'women do it too!' or whatever comes next.

[GoldHeart]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Would love to see where niamh said false reports do not happen.

Its a 'battle of the sexes with blame' as stats tell us that its..a battle of the sexes, given 98% of sexual abuse is committed by males. If it was 50/50 or something yet all that got spoke of was males abusing then I would take your point. But its nowhere near that.

Because it sounded like I'm not allowed to mention that there's people abusing the #Metoo movement ? . But at the same time real abuse gets missed.

I can't see where Cuba Gooding groped the woman? ,the footage is potato quality ,but all I see is a knee touch and the other guy is actually being affectionate towards Gooding .

I've seen videos of fans crossing the line & getting too touchy feely with celebrities .

[user104658]

Originally Posted by GoldHeart

all I see is a knee touch and the other guy is actually being affectionate towards Gooding .

That's not affection in my opinion, it looks like fairly clear lowkey aggression / dominance assertion behaviour and I think if you could hear the exchange it would be very "tense".

IMO what happened is, the woman approached Gooding as a fan and had no problem with the encounter. The man who was with her DID have a problem with the encounter (jealousy, generally being an arsehole, etc.) and has said something at the time and then this has blown up from that point into her saying she was groped / assaulted in an effort to appease her controlling companion.

That's a lot of guesswork but it's the basics of what I can see in that video: She comes over enthusiastically, he engages with her briefly, there's no sign of discomfort or of there being a problem, and then a (drunk looking, IMO) male appears from the sidelines and behaves in that passive-aggressive drunken attempt at intimidation that I'm sure anyone who has ever spent much time in a bar or club knows all too well.

Because that's the uncomfortable truth about the VAST MAJORITY of false sexual assault allegations that do exist. The false report is made because a boyfriend or partner has discovered something that happened consensually, and the woman has claimed that there wasn't consent out of fear of what an aggressive and dominating partner will do if they find out the truth.

[Crimson Dynamo]

another woman looking for money at the expense of women who do get abused

disgusting greed

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

another woman looking for money at the expense of women who do get abused

Because as we all know, celebs never ever actually act innapropriately towards women, its always just 'for the money'

This despite there being video proof that he did actually touch her, though its not quite as clear if he touched her breast, but his hands were in that general area so of course its possible.

[Ammi]

...I think for me it’s obvious why the allegations against him...whether they’re found to be true or not...(..because it’s impossible to see from the vids shown online...)...he did (unnecessarily) laid his hands on her and could have touched her breast...and again, it’s why (..some..)..men feel the need to do this...don’t touch and there will be no doubt or question I guess is the moral of the story...

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Ammi

...I think for me it’s obvious why the allegations against him...whether they’re found to be true or not...(..because it’s impossible to see from the vids shown online...)...he did (unnecessarily) laid his hands on her and could have touched her breast...and again, it’s why (..some..)..men feel the need to do this...don’t touch and there will be no doubt or question I guess is the moral of the story...

Yes to be fair I do agree with that Ammi, whether or not the claimants are "in it for the right reason", he did quite unnecessarily put his hand on her leg (and quite high up her leg? ) and it's really not something I understand at all. I personally am not a huge fan of being touched by people I don't know fairly well and it baffles me that people think it's OK to get touchy-feely with a stranger without obvious permission.

So while I don't think he was deliberately being a pervert or trying to grope her, I agree with the general message that people should just stop being so damned "handsy" all the time. I've even noticed it a few times watching things like Graham Norton... a male guest putting their hand on a female guest's knee while they're talking. Obviously they don't mean anything by it but often the other person looks clearly uncomfortable, and I have no idea how people can be so unaware that they would miss that??

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Yes to be fair I do agree with that Ammi, whether or not the claimants are "in it for the right reason", he did quite unnecessarily put his hand on her leg (and quite high up her leg? ) and it's really not something I understand at all. I personally am not a huge fan of being touched by people I don't know fairly well and it baffles me that people think it's OK to get touchy-feely with a stranger without obvious permission.

So while I don't think he was deliberately being a pervert or trying to grope her, I agree with the general message that people should just stop being so damned "handsy" all the time. I've even noticed it a few times watching things like Graham Norton... a male guest putting their hand on a female guest's knee while they're talking. Obviously they don't mean anything by it but often the other person looks clearly uncomfortable, and I have no idea how people can be so unaware that they would miss that??

Your reading of body language from the comfort of your armchair is not that reliable TS

You have zero clue if someone is uncomfortable, dont project your insecurities on others and then play it as fact

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Because as we all know, celebs never ever actually act innapropriately towards women, its always just 'for the money'

This despite there being video proof that he did actually touch her, though its not quite as clear if he touched her breast, but his hands were in that general area so of course its possible.

he touched her the guy his partner and probably hundreds of people that day

to try and say he groped her is just bonkers

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

he touched her the guy his partner and probably hundreds of people that day

to try and say he groped her is just bonkers

And this means its fine to touch the thigh/breast of a random woman? Just because you are a touchy feely person who..well touches everyone wether they want it or not?

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

And this means its fine to touch the thigh/breast of a random woman? Just because you are a touchy feely person who..well touches everyone wether they want it or not?

he did not touch her breast and he was with his partner, she invaded their space


just wasting court time and all she wants is to be paid off

cynical disgusting money money money

[Crimson Dynamo]

"Cuba Gooding Jr's lawyer says more than two hours of video surveillance from inside a New York bar shows the woman who has accused Gooding of drunkenly groping her breast was "stalking" Gooding and his girlfriend all night."




https://eu.usatoday.com/story/life/2...er/1460216001/

[chuff me dizzy]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

"Cuba Gooding Jr's lawyer says more than two hours of video surveillance from inside a New York bar shows the woman who has accused Gooding of drunkenly groping her breast was "stalking" Gooding and his girlfriend all night."




https://eu.usatoday.com/story/life/2...er/1460216001/

Sounds like what I said it was ..... A set up

[Crimson Dynamo]

So he was quietly sitting having a drink with his gf and some drunk woman rocks up uninvited ans almost sits on his gf's lap and he thinks great now i can grope her and no one will notice?

i mean do i need to go on??

[user104658]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

So he was quietly sitting having a drink with his gf and some drunk woman rocks up uninvited ans almost sits on his gf's lap and he thinks great now i can grope her and no one will notice?

i mean do i need to go on??

Honestly it's two entirely separate debates though. We can briefly acknowledge yes that people in the public eye should be able to go out with friends and family and not have their space & time invaded by fans / the general public... that's fair enough...

...it has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not it was appropriate for him to touch her thigh as he (wuite clearly IMO) does in the video? AND I'm not even saying that his intent was to cause offense or make her uncomfortable or even necessarily "being a perv" or anything like that and I also don't think this is an example of someone who should now be "cancelled" or face prosecution...

...what it IS, though, is an opportunity to shine a light on what is a very real problem - people not realising that they should keep their hands to themselves. That's all that needs to happen! Some sort of acknowledgement that it's a good idea to respect other people's personal space. And an acknowledgement that while [obligatory appeasement] there are plenty of examples of people invading each other's space... there IS a larger problem with males (especially older males) putting their hands round waists / on legs etc. uninvited. Is it because they don't realise? Is it because they're from "another time" where that was just the norm? Maybe, but I'm inclined to think that "back when it was the norm" it was simply less common for people to admit that it made them uncomfortable, rather than it NOT making them uncomfortable, and now that many people DO admit that over-familiar touch makes them uncomfortable the only sensible and respectable thing for people to do going forward is to stop doing it. WHY is there a backlash against that? I genuinely don't get it. " I'm not allowed to touch strangers on the knee any more and that's my fave!" .

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Honestly it's two entirely separate debates though. We can briefly acknowledge yes that people in the public eye should be able to go out with friends and family and not have their space & time invaded by fans / the general public... that's fair enough...

...it has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not it was appropriate for him to touch her thigh as he (wuite clearly IMO) does in the video? AND I'm not even saying that his intent was to cause offense or make her uncomfortable or even necessarily "being a perv" or anything like that and I also don't think this is an example of someone who should now be "cancelled" or face prosecution...

...what it IS, though, is an opportunity to shine a light on what is a very real problem - people not realising that they should keep their hands to themselves. That's all that needs to happen! Some sort of acknowledgement that it's a good idea to respect other people's personal space. And an acknowledgement that while [obligatory appeasement] there are plenty of examples of people invading each other's space... there IS a larger problem with males (especially older males) putting their hands round waists / on legs etc. uninvited. Is it because they don't realise? Is it because they're from "another time" where that was just the norm? Maybe, but I'm inclined to think that "back when it was the norm" it was simply less common for people to admit that it made them uncomfortable, rather than it NOT making them uncomfortable, and now that many people DO admit that over-familiar touch makes them uncomfortable the only sensible and respectable thing for people to do going forward is to stop doing it. WHY is there a backlash against that? I genuinely don't get it. " I'm not allowed to touch strangers on the knee any more and that's my fave!" .

Yeah great post TS, that's it pretty much

[Ammi]

..it also happens less in the reverse for instance...if a woman were to touch a man with familiarity and intimacy ...and then if anything non consensual was attempted etc..?...did she not ‘lead him to misconstrue..’...it really is very difficult for a woman in some situations but the focus is taken back to ‘difficult for men’...it would be nice to address a woman’s perspective without deviating and digressing...

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Ammi

..it also happens less in the reverse for instance...if a woman were to touch a man with familiarity and intimacy ...and then if anything non consensual was attempted etc..?...did she not ‘lead him to misconstrue..’...it really is very difficult for a woman in some situations but the focus is taken back to ‘difficult for men’...it would be nice to address a woman’s perspective without deviating and digressing...

The huge difference when these things are surveyed is well worth acknowledging too. Both men and women report having been touched without consent (especially places like bars and clubs). More women report it making them feel uncomfortable than men, though plenty of men report being uncomfortable. The huge difference comes in though when people are asked if they felt threatened or unsafe because of it - or if it decreased their general feelings of safety in public places - with men VERY rarely feeling actually unsafe and women OFTEN being made to feel unsafe. That can't be brushed off. There is a difference and, as uncomfortable as it may be for many men to admit, it simply is a worse situation for women than men.

I've been groped in clubs. I've thought "ffs go away!" on more than one occasion. I have literally never experienced fear or anxiety because of it because realistically, an adult male is not at anywhere near the level of real risk.

What really got me thinking about this was something that happened pretty recently. My wife was on a train back from London on her own that got into Glasgow at 11pm. On the final leg of her journey, there was a table of guys in their mid-20's drinking (probably heading for the clubs) who started trying to talk to her / chat her up / telling her she should come out with them / started getting a bit "jeering" when she politely said no thankyou... and she had to move train carriages / was on the phone to me genuinely scared about being harassed or followed when she got off the train. And she is NOT someone who is easily intimidated. And that got me thinking. Because I've again been in similar situations with groups of drunk women on trains talking to me, and yes there have been times when it's been irritating / unwanted, but again, I have never felt scared or intimidated in that situation for even a second. Because realistically, I'm not at risk. And it's not even that this group of lads is LIKELY to have decided to attack her but the point is that it does happen, it could happen, there is a realistic risk, and they were being blissfully unaware of that in deliberately making her uncomfortable OR even in just not bothering to take care to make sure people around them WEREN'T uncomfortable.

Another fairly recent example was a group of teenage girls asking if they could sit with me at the bus stop late at night (again something like 11pm) in town while I was waiting for the bus after work, because there was drunk middle aged man at the other stance trying to talk to them and generally being a weirdo, again probably not realising he was intimidating them but they were genuinely scared. AGAIN not something I ever experienced... having to feel anxious while just trying to wait for a bus .

Anyway just a few things that helped me to realise that there are some massive differences in these everyday experiences for men and women and it's easy for men to saunter through blissfully unaware of these scenarios or declaring very valid fears as "unrealistic" or "over the top".

[Crimson Dynamo]

thats grand TS and it dawns on most men that women will feel far more intimidated in certain situations as you describe but that has got diddly squat to do with this farcical situation - what is does relate to is:

I am amazed that no one has mentioned the man (the partner of the accuser?) who gyrates his cock in front of the accused GF - a much more aggressive and intimidating action??

[chuff me dizzy]

The woman's boyfriend and 2 of his mates surround Cuba ,he must have felt very intimidated ,the more I watch the video the more convinced this was all planned