[lime]

Originally Posted by DanaC

That's a very narrow definition of racism. How about a racist outlook that accepts that black people can be good at sports, but also thinks they are lazy and need extra motivation because of it, or that they are excellent runners, but you wouldn't want one marrying your daughter etc. etc.

Even a racist employer, presented with a white candidate with no qualification for the job and a black candidate with all the right qualifications of the job, might give that job to the black candidate. Now, if a slightly underqualified white candidate were up against that perfectly qualified black candidate, that might be a different story.

I have known people who subscribe absolutely to the tenets of the National Front, daubed 'Go Home' and swastikas on the houses of pakistanis yet have been perfectly friendly with some local pakistani lads.

Racism (all isms) is multilayered.

It is entirely possible for someone who is racist to also allow for some qualities/individual talents in the people against whom they are prejudiced. Often framed in a fairly racist way (all blacks are fast runners, virile/Indian workers who are quiet and hardworking, because in their eyes those people are naturally given to servility etc.).

It's also possible for people to hold two sets of entirely contradictory views about the same set of people. Or have vastly different views of pakistanis and Indians, black people and the Chinese etc etc.

Well said Dana

[GiRTh]

Originally Posted by DanaC

That's a very narrow definition of racism. How about a racist outlook that accepts that black people can be good at sports, but also thinks they are lazy and need extra motivation because of it, or that they are excellent runners, but you wouldn't want one marrying your daughter etc. etc.

Even a racist employer, presented with a white candidate with no qualification for the job and a black candidate with all the right qualifications of the job, might give that job to the black candidate. Now, if a slightly underqualified white candidate were up against that perfectly qualified black candidate, that might be a different story.

I have known people who subscribe absolutely to the tenets of the National Front, daubed 'Go Home' and swastikas on the houses of pakistanis yet have been perfectly friendly with some local pakistani lads.

Racism (all isms) is multilayered.

It is entirely possible for someone who is racist to also allow for some qualities/individual talents in the people against whom they are prejudiced. Often framed in a fairly racist way (all blacks are fast runners, virile/Indian workers who are quiet and hardworking, because in their eyes those people are naturally given to servility etc.).

It's also possible for people to hold two sets of entirely contradictory views about the same set of people. Or have vastly different views of pakistanis and Indians, black people and the Chinese etc etc.

Firstly I didn't define racism, I defined racism at its purist and I've used that term a few times. Making a silly comment is not pure/real racism pure/real racism involves some kind of power.

You're talking more about stereotyping in this post. Stereotyping/profiling is not real/pure racism cus there is no power involved and is much more prevalent that pure racism.

[Northern Monkey]

Well,People say 'coloured' all the time where i'm from,I grew up hearing it,I'm only in my early 30's.Maybe different words are offensive in certain areas and not in others?

[DanaC]

I also hear people say coloured. Usually no harm is meant by it.

[CaudleHalbard]

Negro used to be perfectly ok as well. It is merely the Spanish word for black. The feminine derivative - negress - was also fine.... but would nowadays be considered both racist and sexist!

Worth noting that the Latin for black is niger (with one 'g').

It is interesting how words, formerly inoffensive, can become offensive.......... and vice-versa!

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by CaudleHalbard

Negro used to be perfectly ok as well. It is merely the Spanish word for black. The feminine derivative - negress - was also fine.... but would nowadays be considered both racist and sexist!

Worth noting that the Latin for black is niger (with one 'g').

It is interesting how words, formerly inoffensive, can become offensive.......... and vice-versa!

I guess it only became a racist word after it was used in a racist manner due to slavery. Words are just letters until they're used in a positive or negative way by people

[CaudleHalbard]

But that doesn't explain why 'black', formerly offensive, is no longer so?

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by CaudleHalbard

But that doesn't explain why 'black', formerly offensive, is no longer so?

Was Black formerly offensive?

[CaudleHalbard]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Was Black formerly offensive?

Absolutely! Some people of an older generation still feel it is rude.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by CaudleHalbard

Absolutely! Some people of an older generation still feel it is rude.

ahh I didn't know that

[CaudleHalbard]

Just don't ask Big Ron what he thinks of the Chinese!

[CaudleHalbard]

Even my best mate feels uncomfortable using the word black - he's from a small village in Hampshire where black people are noticeable by their absence. They have not yet caught up with what words are nowadays ok or not ok !

[Napoleon_Solo.]

Originally Posted by CaudleHalbard

Even my best mate feels uncomfortable using the word black - he's from a small village in Hampshire where black people are noticeable by their absence. They have not yet caught up with what words are nowadays ok or not ok !

I don't know of any people, (apart from black.) that are labelled purely because of their colour of skin, having said that, I don't know of any black person being described as black actually being offended by the term...It all depends on what context it is being used.
Most people would like to be judged as the person they are and not what skin colour they happen to have.

[Kyle]

Originally Posted by Napoleon_Solo.

I don't know of any people, (apart from black.) that are labelled purely because of their colour of skin, having said that, I don't know of any black person being described as black actually being offended by the term...It all depends on what context it is being used.
Most people would like to be judged as the person they are and not what skin colour they happen to have.

Absolutely. I think often Implying offence can be as dangerous as real offence at times.


This only happened to me once so I can't claim racial prejudice or anything but I was called a white milky bar bastard by someone of Asian lineage and it was the most hilarious thing I ever heard. I was far from offended.

[DanaC]

Originally Posted by Simple Minds

Absolutely. I think often Implying offence can be as dangerous as real offence at times.


This only happened to me once so I can't claim racial prejudice or anything but I was called a white milky bar bastard by someone of Asian lineage and it was the most hilarious thing I ever heard. I was far from offended.

There is not the same historical legacy involved. Nor do we live in a current world in which British Asians predominately have economic and political power over white British.

[Kyle]

Originally Posted by DanaC

There is not the same historical legacy involved. Nor do we live in a current world in which British Asians predominately have economic and political power over white British.

Ah let's wheel out that one. If there's 3 Asians and just me they have all the power they want over me if they choose to assault me, which fortunately they didn't. British Colonial history certainly wasn't in any of our minds at that time.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Napoleon_Solo.

I don't know of any people, (apart from black.) that are labelled purely because of their colour of skin, having said that, I don't know of any black person being described as black actually being offended by the term...It all depends on what context it is being used.
Most people would like to be judged as the person they are and not what skin colour they happen to have.

Yeah, like obviously I'm not offended if someone calls me Irish, I am Irish, but if someone says "You stupid Irish bitch" it's seems to say that being Irish is part of the insult

[Northern Monkey]

Me and an Asian lad at school always used to call each other racist names as a joke and laughed about it.No offence was taken on either side.

[DanaC]

Originally Posted by EyeballPaul

Me and an Asian lad at school always used to call each other racist names as a joke and laughed about it.No offence was taken on either side.

Oh I don't doubt it. This stuiff is almost always contextual.

[DanaC]

Not saying you wuoldn't feel scared, or at risk or insulted. But 'white' as an insult doesn't carry much weight in a place where 'white' is the default colour and where 'white' is associated primarily with cultural power and dominance rather than cultural trauma and oppression.


Bit like a bloke saying' I was called a slut once, it didn't offend me!'

[Northern Monkey]

Originally Posted by DanaC

Not saying you wuoldn't feel scared, or at risk or insulted. But 'white' as an insult doesn't carry much weight in a place where 'white' is the default colour and where 'white' is associated primarily with cultural power and dominance rather than cultural trauma and oppression.

Racism works both ways.You can't say it's one rule for one and not for another.

[Kyle]

Originally Posted by DanaC

Not saying you wuoldn't feel scared, or at risk or insulted. But 'white' as an insult doesn't carry much weight in a place where 'white' is the default colour and where 'white' is associated primarily with cultural power and dominance rather than cultural trauma and oppression.


Bit like a bloke saying' I was called a slut once, it didn't offend me!'

Course it wouldn't insult me, I am not a woman.


So what your saying is I have to live in a country where I am in a minority to be a victim of racism?

[Kyle]

I'm getting the feeling here Dana and I don't mean to jump the gun so I apologise in advance but me being a white, heterosexual male adult aged 24 means that I am excluded from being offended by anything?

[CaudleHalbard]

Originally Posted by Simple Minds

I'm getting the feeling here Dana and I don't mean to jump the gun so I apologise in advance but me being a white, heterosexual male adult aged 24 means that I am excluded from being offended by anything?

Being called "white trash" by a posh black person might offend you?

It all depends on context... the reference to your racial characteristics could, arguably, add to the offence?

[chuff me dizzy]

Originally Posted by CaudleHalbard

Being called "white trash" by a posh black person might offend you?

It all depends on context... the reference to your racial characteristics could, arguably, add to the offence?

Like Jackson did with Jade Goody ? but ALL accepted ,but Jade got hounded for her"racism"