[Twosugars]

EU citizens feel more welcome and safer in Scotland than they do in England, university researchers have found.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics...nd-report-says


Not surprising

[arista]

Originally Posted by Twosugars

EU citizens feel more welcome and safer in Scotland than they do in England, university researchers have found.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics...nd-report-says


Not surprising

Sure No Surprise

[Twosugars]

The UK’s most senior police officer has criticised Boris Johnson for making a political speech in front of a backdrop of police recruits and expressed puzzlement at how it was allowed to take place.

The Metropolitan police commissioner, Cressida Dick, was away earlier this month when the prime minister was accused of abusing the impartiality of the police by making partisan comments about Brexit and the next election at a police training college in Wakefield.

Asked about the incident on an LBC radio phone-in on Tuesday, Dick joined the West Yorkshire police constable, John Robins, in questioning the prime minister’s behaviour.

She said: “To make a highly political speech in front of a group of police officers does seem to me to be problematic on all sides.” She added: “How it happened, I don’t know. But I’m sure everybody wishes it hadn’t happened.”
The Guardian

[arista]

"has criticised"


Johnson PM /Cummings
do not care.

[Withano]

The ****ing hilarious part is that people voted for this government because they were told they were strong and stable. And people are still listening to their words as if they mean a single jot.

[Scarlett.]

Originally Posted by Withano

The ****ing hilarious part is that people voted for this government because they were told they were strong and stable. And people are still listening to their words as if they mean a single jot.

There is this classic tweet from Cameron in 2015

[Twosugars]

I place Brexit supporters in 3 categories:

1) Those who have some interest from a financial perspective. Especially those directly affected by the EU's Anti Tax Avoidance Directive. This would have heavily impacted Britain's dependencies and the financial sector. Whilst this is a minority group, they are very powerful.
2) Immigration: Here there are subcategories. -Those whose livelihood has been genuinely affected by mass immigration (cheap labour, housing, etc). -Those who have a nationalistic/jingoistic agenda (still fighting the war). -And those of a xenophobic/ bigoted persuasion. -Individuals who believed 40 year of misinformation spread by various news outlets.
3) Austerity: This group is made up primarily of those whose lives were directly or indirectly affected by 6 years of austerity. Their motivation was to punish the perpetrators of austerity who were also the champions of the remain campaign, namely Cameron and Osborne.

The Guardian

[bots]

the problem with this whole brexit debacle is that each side is personally insulting the other. It's a simple difference of opinion, and people do not need to justify or be pigeon holed in having that opinion, that is not how democracy works.

People have a difference of opinion, each side should accept it. Any close result is going to be contested, that again is democracy. The whole thing is just getting childish and silly. I am ashamed to be British at the moment, and it's not a good feeling

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

the problem with this whole brexit debacle is that each side is personally insulting the other. It's a simple difference of opinion, and people do not need to justify or be pigeon holed in having that opinion, that is not how democracy works.

People have a difference of opinion, each side should accept it. Any close result is going to be contested, that again is democracy. The whole thing is just getting childish and silly. I am ashamed to be British at the moment, and it's not a good feeling

Enlightened centrism will get us nowhere and false equivalency just paints an equally false picture of what's going on.

This isn't a matter of opinion. There are reports by the government themselves that warn of the likely scenarios of no brexit and so far they've only been made to release the 'not-so-bad outcomes and they're still terrifying. We've been told by experts for years what will happen if Brexit is badly happened and Gove told the cult of Brexit to not pay attention to experts that told them things they didn't want to hear. If all the impartial sources are telling you the same thing, you listen.

Brexiters are willing to drive us all off a cliff just to 'own the remainers' and to feel a sense of victory. They are willing to cut their noses to spite us all, they are beyond reason and I should know because I am surrounded by them on a daily basis, Brexiters don't know what they pulling for because they aren't willing to listen to anything that doesn't please their delicate sensibilities. They think the grass will be greener on the other side despite the facts because they won't hear them.

To me, brexiters are akin to anti-vaxxers and Trump Supporters in that they've all lost touch with reality to chase a fantasy.

Ideally this whole nightmare will end with a compromise, leaving with a deal but the hardcore brexiters that want to doom us all out of spite will make that impossible.

Trying to make out that both sides are as bad as each other is a waste of time.

[bots]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

Enlightened centrism will get us nowhere and false equivalency just paints an equally false picture of what's going on.

This isn't a matter of opinion. There are reports by the government themselves that warn of the likely scenarios of no brexit and so far they've only been made to release the 'not-so-bad outcomes and they're still terrifying. We've been told by experts for years what will happen if Brexit is badly happened and Gove told the cult of Brexit to not pay attention to experts that told them things they didn't want to hear. If all the impartial sources are telling you the same thing, you listen.

Brexiters are willing to drive us all off a cliff just to 'own the remainers' and to feel a sense of victory. They are willing to cut their noses to spite us all, they are beyond reason and I should know because I am surrounded by them on a daily basis, Brexiters don't know what they pulling for because they aren't willing to listen to anything that doesn't please their delicate sensibilities. They think the grass will be greener on the other side despite the facts because they won't hear them.

To me, brexiters are akin to anti-vaxxers and Trump Supporters in that they've all lost touch with reality to chase a fantasy.

Ideally this whole nightmare will end with a compromise, leaving with a deal but the hardcore brexiters that want to doom us all out of spite will make that impossible.

Trying to make out that both sides are as bad as each other is a waste of time.

Peoples decision on whether to choose to leave or remain is an opinion that they are allowed to have without justification. That's the point people are missing. Facts highlighted are used to further a particular argument one way or another. People are really missing the point of democracy, people do not need to justify their decision else it wouldn't be democracy.

So, its not a matter about one side being right or another wrong, it is a democratic right to hold an opinion and not be chastised for doing so

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

Peoples decision on whether to choose to leave or remain is an opinion that they are allowed to have without justification. That's the point people are missing. Facts highlighted are used to further a particular argument one way or another. People are really missing the point of democracy, people do not need to justify their decision else it wouldn't be democracy.

So, its not a matter about one side being right or another wrong, it is a democratic right to hold an opinion and not be chastised for doing so

Bull****. Freedom of speech gives us all a right to an opinion but it does not make that opinion or us beyond reproach. Brexiters are allowed their opinion and I'm allowed to call them out on their utter insanity. That is how freedom of speech works, it is a two way street.

If a decision impacts everyone you can't call any outcry against that decision undemocratic, what you are arguing for is actually really ****ing undemocratic since you're essentially are arguing for silencing the opposition through centrism and false equivalency.

Your centrism in this issue is nothing more than wilful blindness.

[James]

Originally Posted by Twosugars

The Guardian

I'd say the only one of those 3 reasons that had any effect on the referendum result was 2. Immigration.

When you look at the surveys which show attitudes to Brexit it is the C2, D and E social classes that more support Brexit with the upper and middle classes supporting Remain more.

I doubt most Leave supporters have their savings squirrelled away in tax havens.

[Twosugars]

Originally Posted by James

I'd say the only one of those 3 reasons that had any effect on the referendum result was 2. Immigration.

When you look at the surveys which show attitudes to Brexit it is the C2, D and E social classes that more support Brexit with the upper and middle classes supporting Remain more.

I doubt most Leave supporters have their savings squirrelled away in tax havens.

Agree. But brexit supporting press magnates and businessmen were instrumental in getting the referendum to happen in the first place. These people are motivated by the tax issue imo.

Re immigration, I wonder how brexit voters will feel when immigration does not decrease post brexit, but change from Europeans to people from further afield.

[The Slim Reaper]

Originally Posted by Twosugars

Agree. But brexit supporting press magnates and businessmen were instrumental in getting the referendum to happen in the first place. These people are motivated by the tax issue imo.

Re immigration, I wonder how brexit voters will feel when immigration does not decrease post brexit, but change from Europeans to people from further afield.

Not only that, but this country already had the powers to restrict EU immigration, the fact it didn't was the choice of governments from both parties, not because they didn't have the legislative ability to do so.

[Twosugars]

Originally Posted by The Slim Reaper

Not only that, but this country already had the powers to restrict EU immigration, the fact it didn't was the choice of governments from both parties, not because they didn't have the legislative ability to do so.

It's all a con, the successive governments never represented the people on this issue but big business. Big business needs a constant supply of cheap labour. And that's why it will not change.
Anti immigration sentiment was whipped up for the referendum but since then many key brexit politicians made positive noises about continuing immigration.
Not to mention that some big countries will make easing immigration restrictions part of their free trade negotiations. India has already said that much.
All those who are anti immigration and anti immigrants will not get their wish in the "global Britain"

[Tom4784]

The podium debacle is one of Boris' own making. He made himself look like a pussy and a bigger joke than he already is. A real leader would have faced the crowd to make his point, I don't blame the Luxembourg leader one bit for doing what he did.

The truth is it's our own government that is sabotaging us and you can bury your heads in the sand all you want but that won't change what is happening or what will happen.

[arista]

"To me, brexiters are akin to anti-vaxxers and Trump Supporters in that they've all lost touch with reality to chase a fantasy."


You telling me the PM is Bonkers?
Dezzy

You have Marxist Corbyn
or Johnson in next General election
soon.


As for the LibDems
they are busy being Fluffy
and never to be in power.

[Scarlett.]

Originally Posted by arista

You telling me the PM is Bonkers?

Yes

[arista]

Originally Posted by Dia.

Yes

He is not.
He has a Clever Adviser
Dominic Cummings.

The World will carry on , after Brexit.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by arista

"To me, brexiters are akin to anti-vaxxers and Trump Supporters in that they've all lost touch with reality to chase a fantasy."


You telling me the PM is Bonkers?
Dezzy

You have Marxist Corbyn
or Johnson in next General election
soon. You've highlighted why Brexiters are so insane here, any criticism and it's instant 'CORBYN THIS, CORBYN THAT'


As for the LibDems
they are busy being Fluffy
and never to be in power.

Don't be so sure about the Lib Dems, they are pretty much the de-facto remain party and unlike Leave which has been split by the Tories and Brexit, remainers who wish to undo brexit only have one party to vote for. Don't be surprised if Lib Dems potentially take it all in an election.

[arista]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

Don't be so sure about the Lib Dems, they are pretty much the de-facto remain party and unlike Leave which has been split by the Tories and Brexit, remainers who wish to undo brexit only have one party to vote for. Don't be surprised if Lib Dems potentially take it all in an election.

Yes but many Voters want
The Corbyn Plan
after he gets Elected
a New Referendum With Remain
or New Labour Plan Leave.


LibDems are Revoke to try and get voters
but no power as , not enough MP's

So they are Fighting the Brexit Party.


And Taken from LibDem Thread:

[This was spoke about on Radio 4 AM
a few days ago
and Jo is getting Angry
that rushed TV debates on Sky , ITV and the BBC
will Exclude the small party LibDems
The Main Two are Johnson & Corbyn. ]

[arista]

Rumors a 2nd prorogue
could happen just before the 31st

[Scarlett.]

Originally Posted by arista

Rumors a 2nd prorogue
could happen just before the 31st

No way that would be allowed

[arista]

Originally Posted by Dia.

No way that would be allowed

We will see.

[The Slim Reaper]

Originally Posted by arista

We will see.

Does it not give you any pause the way you cheer on law breaking for the tories, and yet you act like a tough guy on any other crime?