[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Livia

If only it was just China. Human beings, in their quest for immortality, have no qualms about testing on any kind of animal in the cruelest, most abhorent ways... any kind of animal except humans themselves, of course. Which is strange, because no species has been so negligent, so destructive, so dishonest, so violent nor abused the planet as much as humans and yet we still hold ourselves up as something special.

Does any other animal have the level of consciousness that we do though? Like, whats to say that if cats became top of the food chain and started to develop technology that could save other cats from illnesses and that, that they would not do it? Its wrong I guess, but its what happens when one species become top of the food chain and seemingly a lot more aware/advanced than any other species.

I feel like a bit of an evil ****er with my replies in this thread

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Does any other animal have the level of consciousness that we do though? Like, whats to say that if cats became top of the food chain and started to develop technology that could save other cats from illnesses and that, that they would not do it? Its wrong I guess, but its what happens when one species become top of the food chain and seemingly a lot more aware/advanced than any other species.

I feel like a bit of an evil ****er with my replies in this thread

You're just being realistic/pragmatic Vicky, it IS ridiculous the number of people who will wax lyrical about animal testing and then head out for a cheeseburger . I mean... really. "HEY YOU! Stop testing things on that animal! ... cos... cos I might wanna eat that later "

Also while I agree with Livia that we don't necessarily need to be on a constant quest to extend the human life span (we have enough overpopulation problems as it is!) - finding cures for conditions that DON'T decrease lifespan, but do significantly impact quality of life, is well worth it in my opinion, so long as it is kept to the absolute minimum required. If it can be done another way, by all means do it the other way... but if not, then I think it's a necessary evil.


As for the "Use Paedos!" argument... well... that's just a non-argument. This sort of genetic testing on animals is multi-generational, they have to force mutations at the genetic level before birth. You can't just take an adult human and "genetically engineer" them... it's not Spider-man.

[bots]

Ethics should always be considered, but ethical considerations need to be weighed against the impact of not doing particular experimentation. There is no right or wrong answer, it very much depends on the specifics of individual cases.

China doesn't really place any value on human life, so its not likely they are going to give a crap about anything else.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

Ethics should always be considered, but ethical considerations need to be weighed against the impact of not doing particular experimentation. There is no right or wrong answer, it very much depends on the specifics of individual cases.

China doesn't really place any value on human life, so its not likely they are going to give a crap about anything else.

Their record on animal welfare is worse than their record in human welfare. I have to say I buy nothing from China.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Livia

I have to say I buy nothing from China.

The fact that you're posting online makes that highly unlikely, surely? I can't think of any tech brand that doesn't have components manufactured in China.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

The fact that you're posting online makes that highly unlikely, surely? I can't think of any tech brand that doesn't have components manufactured in China.

I was thinking that, I'm sure pretty almost much everything is made in China The big corporations are the ones most to blame for that. They should be making more of a stand about the slave labour in countries like China but money is much more important than people

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

I was thinking that, I'm sure pretty almost much everything is made in China The big corporations are the ones most to blame for that. They should be making more of a stand about the slave labour in countries like China but money is much more important than people

I was reading an article yesterday about the working conditions at Amazon / Apple / etc factories. Apparently there ARE a tonne of maximum working hours / minimum wage laws now... but China is so huge that there are entire cities with populations in the millions where the labour laws are just totally ignored, people working 80 hour weeks on less than half of minimum wage, etc.

But there really is no way to totally avoid it. There'll be something from China in every computer / phone / tablet, and also the majority of electronic components in every car, bus, train or plane will be from a Chinese factory. You would pretty much have to go full log cabin in the woods. I think the sad reality is that our entire world relies on exploitation in some form or other and in order for it to stop we would need to have BOTH a massive drop in population, and a massive shift in lifestyle.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Livia

Their record on animal welfare is worse than their record in human welfare. I have to say I buy nothing from China.

Addendum: I never consciously buy anything from China. If there are components inside something I am buying that are Chinese about which I am unaware, well... it's hard to be that finite about anything. However, if it says MADE IN CHINA I don't buy it.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Does any other animal have the level of consciousness that we do though? Like, whats to say that if cats became top of the food chain and started to develop technology that could save other cats from illnesses and that, that they would not do it? Its wrong I guess, but its what happens when one species become top of the food chain and seemingly a lot more aware/advanced than any other species.

I feel like a bit of an evil ****er with my replies in this thread

Having our level of consciousness seems to have made us murderous, war-mongering, polluting, greedy beasts.

IN a few years we will realise that there isn't enough room on the planet for our burgeoning population. We've destroyed the habitats of countless other species with no thought at all, we've filled up the ocean with plastic and we use other sentient beings to cure illnesses so that there will be more people surviving and the population expands even more. Every time Nature finds a way of getting rid of some of us, there's a cure found. Now we're all living much longer... but when we do get old, no one wants to know, no one wants to take care of us so we live out our days in a care home. So what's the point of extending life?

We are reproducing at an alarming rate. More accurately, the poorest people are reproducing at an alarming rate. How will we feed them? How will we shelter them? No one knows. But we're still working on IVF and even womb transplants so people can reproduce like it's their right, while children with no parents are dragged through our appalling care system.

Animal testing is just one area where humans disgust me. Pay people to be guinea pigs, lots of pharmaceutical companies do. The physiology of a dog, cat, rabbit, monkey isn't anything LIKE ours, so the tests they do are never conclusive anyway.

So to sum up.... and in my opinion... Animals > Humans.