[Garfie]

I felt it was sad, rather than uncomfortable, and felt it was better for Cameron to discuss things with him directly, rather than bitching behind his back. Those sorts of conversations are always difficult to have, but sometimes you just have to be honest, and I give Cameron credit for having the courage to tackle the subject.

I got the impression that the lack of trust he spoke about stemmed from Cian's drunken comments about fancying Cameron, and either Cameron (rightly or wrongly) feeling that he'd almost been outed by this before he was ready, or feeling that Cian was pushing things further than Cameron was comfortable with as soon as he admitted to him he was gay.

Cian has obviously been hurt by this, and I imagine he felt even more hurt, isolated and alone than he already did as a result; I think it will have upset him greatly as I don't believe his intentions were wrong either, but just a drunken mistake which has made him lose the trust of someone he genuinely cared about. I feel part of his upset came from regret.

I don't think Cameron wanted to hurt Cian during this conversation either- he'd recognised that Cian was not feeling good and was isolating himself, and I think he wanted to explain things from his point of view. I think his motives were genuine.

All in all, I think this is just one of those difficult and sad situations in which two people cause each other pain with no intention of doing so. But poor Cian is obviously hurting badly at the moment, and that is hard to watch. I just hope that someone in there is able to offer him a little bit of comfort.

[ChristmasNeeve]

Originally Posted by Garfie

I felt it was sad, rather than uncomfortable, and felt it was better for Cameron to discuss things with him directly, rather than bitching behind his back. Those sorts of conversations are always difficult to have, but sometimes you just have to be honest, and I give Cameron credit for having the courage to tackle the subject.

I got the impression that the lack of trust he spoke about stemmed from Cian's drunken comments about fancying Cameron, and either Cameron (rightly or wrongly) feeling that he'd almost been outed by this before he was ready, or feeling that Cian was pushing things further than Cameron was comfortable with as soon as he admitted to him he was gay.

Cian has obviously been hurt by this, and I imagine he felt even more hurt, isolated and alone than he already did as a result; I think it will have upset him greatly as I don't believe his intentions were wrong either, but just a drunken mistake which has made him lose the trust of someone he genuinely cared about. I feel part of his upset came from regret.

I don't think Cameron wanted to hurt Cian during this conversation either- he'd recognised that Cian was not feeling good and was isolating himself, and I think he wanted to explain things from his point of view. I think his motives were genuine.

All in all, I think this is just one of those difficult and sad situations in which two people cause each other pain with no intention of doing so. But poor Cian is obviously hurting badly at the moment, and that is hard to watch. I just hope that someone in there is able to offer him a little bit of comfort.

Actually, that's a great post, you've changed my mind on it, I agree

[Ammi]

...(..also..)..a perfect post, Garfie.....I felt so much for Cian but it’s one of those things sadly...that is just is what it is and it’s something he addressed as well as he could have...


...I do feel though at the time...Lewis did add to it by constantly saying his drunken actions were careless and reckless and without consideration..both to Cameron and to Cian ...when it was a slip through alcohol of a moment...but still a slip that should never ever have happened...

[Garfie]

Originally Posted by Ammi

...(..also..)..a perfect post, Garfield.....I felt so much for Cian but it’s one of those things sadly...that is just is what it is and it’s something he addressed as well as he could have...


...I do feel though at the time...Lewis did add to it by constantly saying his drunken actions were careless and reckless and without consideration..both to Cameron and to Cian ...when it was a slip through alcohol of a moment...but still a slip that should never ever have happened...

Thank you, Ammi.

Do you know, I totally agree with you about Lewis fuelling Cameron's discomfort regarding Cian; Cameron even used the term 'reckless' when he first spoke to Cian about it. I remember this particularly as I'd never heard the word used in this context before Lewis used it.

I truly think that if they'd been left to their own devices to sort it out between themselves without the input of Lewis, they might have laughed it off and all might have been forgiven at the time.

At the time, I felt that Lewis had almost orchestrated the rift that developed between them, so that he'd receive all the credit for helping Cameron to come out, when he was clearly being supported in this by Cian as well.

Sometimes, I wonder if he's using his relationship with Cameron to boost his own ego and to make himself appear like some sort of guru who can achieve things that no-one else can. To me, it's almost like he wants to have Cameron all to himself, and distanced from others, so that he can manipulate his thoughts, feelings and views. Almost like he wants to control him. Sometimes he gives me the impression of being an almost Frankenstein like figure, and at times their relationship has left me feeling uncomfortable, and this is the reason I have described it as unhealthy in the past.

I recognise I am going to be slaughtered for this view, and therefore stress that this is only my impression. However, I'm preparing for the onslaught!

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Garfie

Thank you, Ammi.

Do you know, I totally agree with you about Lewis fuelling Cameron's discomfort regarding Cian; Cameron even used the term 'reckless' when he first spoke to Cian about it. I remember this particularly as I'd never heard the word used in this context before Lewis used it.

I truly think that if they'd been left to their own devices to sort it out between themselves without the input of Lewis, they might have laughed it off and all might have been forgiven at the time.

At the time, I felt that Lewis had almost orchestrated the rift that developed between them, so that he'd receive all the credit for helping Cameron to come out, when he was clearly being supported in this by Cian as well.

Sometimes, I wonder if he's using his relationship with Cameron to boost his own ego and to make himself appear like some sort of guru who can achieve things that no-one else can. To me, it's almost like he wants to have Cameron all to himself, and distanced from others, so that he can manipulate his thoughts, feelings and views. Almost like he wants to control him. Sometimes he gives me the impression of being an almost Frankenstein like figure, and at times their relationship has left me feeling uncomfortable, and this is the reason I have described it as unhealthy in the past.

....hmmm I do think Lewis genuinely likes Cameron...but I do feel that his affection for him is somewhat also based on Cameron being his ‘little bro’ and kind of idolising him..?...I think he was always going to self proclaim the biggest support in Cameron coming out...(as his big bro..)...but Cian’s slip threatened it all so it would have been more of a clumsily, stumbling out, rather than a coming out..?...I honestly don’t know if that would make him feel more for himself and the support he hoped to play...or for Cameron in it taking his moment from him..?...but he definately focused no thoughts or feelings whatsoever into Cian and how he would have been feeling awful enough...and he really didn’t need constantly being told he was careless...he was feeling every careless moment for himself already...

[Garfie]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Actually, that's a great post, you've changed my mind on it, I agree

Thanks. I think part of the conversation was edited out- probably cut down because it was too long- and that's why it seemed Cameron's explanation wasn't clearly explained at the time. I felt producers were expecting us to rely on previous conversations in order to understand what Cameron was referring to. Well, that's how I've come to my conclusions anyway.

I really felt for both Cian and Cameron in this situation, and hope they are eventually able to repair and rebuild their friendship.

[ChristmasNeeve]

Originally Posted by Ammi

...(..also..)..a perfect post, Garfie.....I felt so much for Cian but it’s one of those things sadly...that is just is what it is and it’s something he addressed as well as he could have...


...I do feel though at the time...Lewis did add to it by constantly saying his drunken actions were careless and reckless and without consideration..both to Cameron and to Cian ...when it was a slip through alcohol of a moment...but still a slip that should never ever have happened...

Originally Posted by Garfie

Thanks. I think part of the conversation was edited out- probably cut down because it was too long- and that's why it seemed Cameron's explanation wasn't clearly explained at the time. I felt producers were expecting us to rely on previous conversations in order to understand what Cameron was referring to. Well, that's how I've come to my conclusions anyway.

I really felt for both Cian and Cameron in this situation, and hope they are eventually able to repair and rebuild their friendship.

Yeah me too Garfie, but I also agree with Ammis point above about Lewis making it worse than it could have been aswell.

[Ammi]

..Cameron also addressed something quite negative in a more mature and positive way than we’ve ever seen from him, I think...which was away from Lewis...around Lewis he tends to address negative things in a completely different way...and much more akin to Lewis...

[jaxie]

Originally Posted by Garfie

I felt it was sad, rather than uncomfortable, and felt it was better for Cameron to discuss things with him directly, rather than bitching behind his back. Those sorts of conversations are always difficult to have, but sometimes you just have to be honest, and I give Cameron credit for having the courage to tackle the subject.

I got the impression that the lack of trust he spoke about stemmed from Cian's drunken comments about fancying Cameron, and either Cameron (rightly or wrongly) feeling that he'd almost been outed by this before he was ready, or feeling that Cian was pushing things further than Cameron was comfortable with as soon as he admitted to him he was gay.

Cian has obviously been hurt by this, and I imagine he felt even more hurt, isolated and alone than he already did as a result; I think it will have upset him greatly as I don't believe his intentions were wrong either, but just a drunken mistake which has made him lose the trust of someone he genuinely cared about. I feel part of his upset came from regret.

I don't think Cameron wanted to hurt Cian during this conversation either- he'd recognised that Cian was not feeling good and was isolating himself, and I think he wanted to explain things from his point of view. I think his motives were genuine.

All in all, I think this is just one of those difficult and sad situations in which two people cause each other pain with no intention of doing so. But poor Cian is obviously hurting badly at the moment, and that is hard to watch. I just hope that someone in there is able to offer him a little bit of comfort.

Good post but I don't really feel Cameron has a real reason for his lack of trust. It's not like Cian made a pass at him or anything like that. Had Cameron not been gay, Cian could still have fancied him so I don't see that telling him he has a crush is outing him, though it was patently obvious to everyone watching that Cameron coming out was coming. I think he should be flattered rather than making it into something bad or wrong. The problem with Cameron is he is letting Lewis paranoia run him too so he sees ulterior motives in everything other people in the house say or do. I feel sorry for Cian, I don't think he deserves to be a person is not trusted.

If anything I think Lewis pushed Cameron into outing himself, ready or not.