[Urban Cragou]

You can’t write off an entire culture’s mode of discipline kids as lazy parenting just because it doesn’t resonate with modern western standards. In’t that a tad offensive?

[Urban Cragou]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Cultures are not fixed; it used to be the "culture" in Britain to stick orphans in workhouses to work for their gruel, and not even that long ago, but thankfully an end was put to that without people huffing and puffing about it being "part of our culture". And countless other examples. If something is a **** thing to do then it's a **** thing to do, regardless of culture, and physically attacking someone for any reason other than self-defense is a **** thing to do. Doubly so if it's a child.

Except the kid in question’s more a teenager than a small boy.

[ChristmasNeeve]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

Its not everyones opinion

Well, it's more than an opinion in Ireland actually as it's illegal here to hit your child

[Christmas Dynasnow]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Well, it's more than an opinion in Ireland actually as it's illegal here to hit your child

sure but I doubt many pay heed to that

[y.winter]

It all comes to poor parental skills.
You don't need money or violence to avoid your kid being a little brat.

[ChristmasNeeve]

Originally Posted by Redway

On the contrary kids with non-Western upbringing usually have more respect for their elders.

The kid in question’s 15. Not exactly a small child.

Except the post you agreed with said "Perhaps if someone had put their hands on him when he was younger" not when he was 15.

[Urban Cragou]

That’s half the world down as poor parents then.

[Urban Cragou]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Except the post you agreed with said "Perhaps if someone had put their hands on him when he was younger" not when he was 15.

Livia’s damn right either way.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Redway

You can’t write off an entire culture’s mode of discipline kids as lazy parenting just because it doesn’t resonate with modern western standards. In’t that a tad offensive?

I'm pretty comfortable writing off all deliberate violence that is not in self-defence, in all cultures and in all situations, tbqfh. And while I don't think the act itself necessarily comes from a place of laziness... the idea that "I do it cos my parents did it to me, and their parents did it to them, and we're all just peachy", yes, is pretty lazy.

By all means outline to me how and why it is a good idea independently, psychologically and scientifically and then there's a discussion on its merits. "It's just the way we do things!" is none of those things and says absolutely zero about the merits of the practice.

[ChristmasNeeve]

Originally Posted by Redway

You can’t write off an entire culture’s mode of discipline kids as lazy parenting just because it doesn’t resonate with modern western standards. In’t that a tad offensive?

It's offensive to disagree with using physical force against a child? I don't think it is no in the same way I disagree with alot of cultural treatments of women in middle eastern countries for example or FGM in some African cultures, is disagreeing with those practices in the name of culture offensive? And if so call my offensive by all means

[ChristmasNeeve]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

sure but I doubt many pay heed to that

Parents of my generation that I would know very well don't hit their kids as far as I'm aware, I've never seen family or friends of mine hit their kids and alot have spoke about being against that sort of discipline too, that's anecdotal of course but that's all I've got I'm afraid

[Urban Cragou]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I'm pretty comfortable writing off all deliberate violence that is not in self-defence, in all cultures and in all situations, tbqfh. And while I don't think the act itself necessarily comes from a place of laziness... the idea that "I do it cos my parents did it to me, and their parents did it to them, and we're all just peachy", yes, is pretty lazy.

By all means outline to me how and why it is a good idea independently, psychologically and scientifically and then there's a discussion on its merits. "It's just the way we do things!" is none of those things and says absolutely zero about the merits of the practice.

Older generations and people from other cultures where it’s still a thing turn/ed out perfectly okay and have more respect for their elders. Not every opinion needs quantifying and statistical verification but I’d love to see you rebute that last point about respect for elders.

[ChristmasNeeve]

Originally Posted by Redway

That’s half the world down as poor parents then.

You said it

Originally Posted by Redway

Livia’s damn right either way.

Disagree.

[Urban Cragou]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

It's offensive to disagree with using physical force against a child? I don't think it is no in the same way I disagree with alot of cultural treatments of women in middle eastern countries for example or FGM in some African cultures, is disagreeing with those practices in the name of culture offensive? And if so call my offensive by all means

It’s more a deeply rooted part of child training in other parts of the world than lazy parenting. Whether you agree with it or not you can’t apply modern British standards to different world cultures.

[ChristmasNeeve]

Originally Posted by Redway

Older generations and people from other cultures where it’s still a thing turn/ed out perfectly okay and have more respect for their elders. Not every opinion needs quantifying and statistical verification but I’d love to see you rebute that last point about respect for elders.

How can he rebute a point that is pretty much just your opinion?

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Redway

Except the kid in question’s more a teenager than a small boy.

So you're argument is that they shouldn't be hit as a small child, and then START hitting them as a teenager? When a "little smack on the bum" would be undoubtedly ineffective and inappropriate, so what would be the method? A swift backhand to the face? Being pushed up against a wall? In what possible version of reality are either of those things preferable to a reasonable and respectful conversation?

[Urban Cragou]

And the other half of the world has more respect for elders than Britain does. That’s the funny thing considering their parents are crap according to British standards.

[ChristmasNeeve]

Originally Posted by Redway

It’s more a deeply rooted part of child training in other parts of the world than lazy parenting. Whether you agree with it or not you can’t apply modern British standards to different world cultures.

Once again, I'm not British and I find it offensive that you keep referring to me as that, especially considering our history. Hitting your kids is illegal in Ireland, it's not in Britain.

[Urban Cragou]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Once again, I'm not British and I find it offensive that you keep referring to me as that, especially considering our history. Hitting your kids is illegal in Ireland, it's not in Britain.

You know what I’m saying. Calling parents from non-Western countries lazy and crap parents because you don’t agree with their mode of discipline is more offensive than anything I’ve said on this thread.

[Urban Cragou]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

So you're argument is that they shouldn't be hit as a small child, and then START hitting them as a teenager? When a "little smack on the bum" would be undoubtedly ineffective and inappropriate, so what would be the method? A swift backhand to the face? Being pushed up against a wall? In what possible version of reality are either of those things preferable to a reasonable and respectful conversation?

“Reasonable and respectful conversation.”

LMAO. When it’s gotten to the point of some stupid kid standing up to a grown man like he can reasonable conversation takes a backseat.

[ChristmasNeeve]

Originally Posted by Redway

You know what I’m saying. Calling parents from non-Western countries lazy and crap parents because you don’t agree with their mode of discipline is more offensive than anything I’ve said on this thread.

It really isn't. I'm not British, stop calling me that. Thanks.

[Urban Cragou]

Maybe it’s just my cultural perspective talking. That’s why these conversations are hard to have with people from purely Western cultures.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Redway

Older generations and people from other cultures where it’s still a thing turn/ed out perfectly okay and have more respect for their elders. Not every opinion needs quantifying and statistical verification but I’d love to see you rebute that last point about respect for elders.

Happy to. I believe that "respect for elders" is a bull**** concept and ones elders should only be respected if they are in turn being respectful. In fact, I'll go further than that. I think pushing the idea that one must unquestioningly "respect one's elders" is straight up dangerous and opens to door to covert abuse and exploitation. It's an idea that has been used time and again throughout history to intimidate and silence young people when they are being mistreated by a supposed superior. One does not become more worthy of respect with age. Respect should be the default from birth and equal for everyone until they do something to lose that respect.

Originally Posted by Redway

And the other half of the world has more respect for elders than Britain does.

Are they? Do you have some stats on figures on this? Or is it observational?
Because fear and ingrained response =/= respect, and I would counter that what you are identifying as "respect" is little more than Pavlovian dog training, and completely unrelated to true, deserved, ideological respect.

[Urban Cragou]

Look at this guy trying to quantify traditions passed down from generation to generation.

“Respect for elders is a bull**** concept.”

That attitude’s the reason why the kid was bold enough to call the bus driver a prick in the first place.

[ChristmasNeeve]

Originally Posted by Redway

Maybe it’s just my cultural perspective talking. That’s why these conversations are hard to have with people from purely Western cultures.

Just because something is part of a culture doesn't make it ok and un-challangable, there was plenty in my culture (IRISH) that was wrong but we're changing that as time goes by, I have no issues with someone who isn't Irish saying they think something Irish people do as a cultural thing is wrong