[Urban Cragou]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Once again, I'm not British and I find it offensive that you keep referring to me as that, especially considering our history. Hitting your kids is illegal in Ireland, it's not in Britain.

You know what I’m saying. Calling parents from non-Western countries lazy and crap parents because you don’t agree with their mode of discipline is more offensive than anything I’ve said on this thread.

[ChristmasNeeve]

Originally Posted by Redway

You know what I’m saying. Calling parents from non-Western countries lazy and crap parents because you don’t agree with their mode of discipline is more offensive than anything I’ve said on this thread.

It really isn't. I'm not British, stop calling me that. Thanks.

[Urban Cragou]

Maybe it’s just my cultural perspective talking. That’s why these conversations are hard to have with people from purely Western cultures.

[Urban Cragou]

Look at this guy trying to quantify traditions passed down from generation to generation.

“Respect for elders is a bull**** concept.”

That attitude’s the reason why the kid was bold enough to call the bus driver a prick in the first place.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Redway

Look at this guy trying to quantify traditions passed down from generation to generation.

“Respect for elders is a bull**** concept.”

That attitude’s the reason why the kid was bold enough to call the bus driver a prick in the first place.

Please explain why relative age merits increased respect. You haven't and don't seem willing to; I can only assume because you have no idea how to.

And no, it doesn't explain why this kid was disrespectful. I quite clearly said that the default should be respect. He should have been respectful towards the driver because he should be respectful towards everyone and likewise vice-versa. The reason he was disrespectful was not "because he hasn't been taught to unquestioningly respect his elders", and the reason for him having a generally bad attitude CERTAINLY isn't "because he didn't get hit enough".

You're battling a point from a purely subjective stance of what you believe to be true and what you have been raised to believe is true. You have absolutely NO objective evidence for any of it, other than what you believe to be true and what you want to be true, and a few unsubstantiated observations that have far too many variables to be conclusive of anything at all.

[Urban Cragou]

“Objective evidence. Unsubstantiated claims.”

You don’t sound any smarter by throwing around academic terms like that. Especially where emotionally toned topics go. I hope you know that.

You can quote my words literally and take them at face value or you can take the substance of what I’m saying. Either way it’s all subjective so long as she and cultural differences come into it. That’s why no one other than you’s linking up ‘conclusive studies’ to substantiate something that all comes down to personal interpretation.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Redway

“Objective evidence. Unsubstantiated claims.”

You don’t sound any smarter by throwing around academic terms like that. Especially where emotionally toned topics go. I hope you know that.

You can quote my words literally and take them at face value or you can take the substance of what I’m saying. Either way it’s all subjective so long as she and cultural differences come into it. That’s why no one other than you’s linking up ‘conclusive studies’ to substantiate something that all comes down to personal interpretation.

No, you're conflating the objective question of whether or not violence against children results in better / more respectful adults (something that absolutely can be and has been examined through detailed study, and is not purely a matter of opinion) with a statement about cultural norms that by your own admission is fuelled by personal bias. You came into the thread specifically to do that, and you were up until that point the only person who had done that.

I'm not "throwing around terms to seem smarter", and you should be careful when assuming that just because a topic is emotionally toned for you due to your own personal circumstances, that it's that for everyone else involved in the discussion.

I have little to zero interest in the emotional or cultural attachment to using physical punishment against children. I'm interested in whether or not it's objectively damaging to psychological development and the creation of stable, respectful, non-violent adults.

To state that this kid is disrespectful towards adults because he wasn't physically punished enough is at absolute best complete guesswork - not least because we have no idea whether he was or wasn't. It's a guess based on another guess. To state that it's acceptable for an adult man to physically put his hands on anyone - let alone a minor, let alone one who is a stranger to him - is in my opinion morally dubious, and legally just plain false.

[ChristmasNeeve]

Originally Posted by Redway

Maybe it’s just my cultural perspective talking. That’s why these conversations are hard to have with people from purely Western cultures.

Just because something is part of a culture doesn't make it ok and un-challangable, there was plenty in my culture (IRISH) that was wrong but we're changing that as time goes by, I have no issues with someone who isn't Irish saying they think something Irish people do as a cultural thing is wrong

[ChristmasNeeve]

Originally Posted by Redway

You know what I’m saying. Calling parents from non-Western countries lazy and crap parents because you don’t agree with their mode of discipline is more offensive than anything I’ve said on this thread.

Oh and to add to this, I'm not only calling people from non western cultures lazy parents btw, plenty of parents in Western cultures still use corporal punishment too(just read this thread for a start) so you can stop trying to paint me as a racist or something. You're the one who brought culture into it not me, I disagree with it regardless of culture.

[Urban Cragou]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Oh and to add to this, I'm not only calling people from non western cultures lazy parents btw, plenty of parents in Western cultures still use corporal punishment too(just read this thread for a start) so you can stop trying to paint me as a racist or something. You're the one who brought culture into it not me, I disagree with it regardless of culture.

No one’s trying to paint you as a racist but culture and generation have the strongest bearing on how people interpret these things.

Bottom line is whether you’re in agreement with different practices or not corporal punishment to kids is so deeply rooted in some cultures it’s seen as an essential part of child training. Dismissing it as lazy just because it doesn’t resonate with you comes off as just a little bit offensive.

[ChristmasNeeve]

Originally Posted by Redway

No one’s trying to paint you as a racist but culture and generation have the strongest bearing on how people interpret these things.

Bottom line is whether you’re in agreement with different practices or not corporal punishment to kids is so deeply rooted in some cultures it’s seen as an essential part of child training. Dismissing it as lazy just because it doesn’t resonate with you comes off as just a little bit offensive.

But only offensive to non western cultures? It was also a cultural thing in Western cultures too but that's starting to change because people realised its wrong to hit children.

You say it's a way of child training. It was also a way of training dogs in the past but dog trainers have updated their methods because they realised it was less effective and a bit cruel. Hitting puppies/dogs as a way of training them makes dogs fearful which in turn can make them dangerous/aggressive. It makes sense. It's logical.

I'm not going to ever sit here and say it's ok to hit a child because it offends you btw, not ever.

[Urban Cragou]

But to go on and call half the world’s parents bad parents all because you’re not in agreement with their mode of discipline kind of is offensive isn’t it.

[ChristmasNeeve]

Originally Posted by Redway

But to go on and call half the world’s parents bad parents all because you’re not in agreement with their mode of discipline kind of is offensive isn’t it.

I never once said bad parents, I said lazy parenting in regards to disciplining their kids.