[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by parmnion

Part 2 was on last night, it shocked me that it is actually people volountary going to the pastor to be "cured"



Makes you think that some people have a stronger connection to god than they do
with or for their sexuality.

I didn't watch the programme but do you think it's a connection to god or that they don't want to be ostracized by their families etc?

[Beso]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

I didn't watch the programme but do you think it's a connection to god or that they don't want to be ostracized by their families etc?

it definatly seemed like a connection to god rather than any form of persecution.

[Twosugars]

Originally Posted by parmnion

it definatly seemed like a connection to god rather than any form of persecution.

Connection to religion rather than god.
I'd say most homosexuals battle internal homophobia. Usually it's "gifted" to them by the hetoronormative world around them, sometimes reinforced by religion.
When coming out sometimes coming out to yourself is the hardest bit. Truly accepting who you are sexually and be ok with it.
So you can be gay and be a homophobe full of self-loathing.

[Beso]

Originally Posted by Twosugars

Connection to religion rather than god.
I'd say most homosexuals battle internal homophobia. Usually it's "gifted" to them by the hetoronormative world around them, sometimes reinforced by religion.
When coming out sometimes coming out to yourself is the hardest bit. Truly accepting who you are sexually and be ok with it.
So you can be gay and be a homophobe full of self-loathing.

I don't buy any of that.. You can't blame straight people for a gay persons self loathing..

Gay people seem to have separated themselves from society rather than society shunning them.gay bars, pride marches, flags n banners...

So more and more they isolate themselves, staying amongst their own...society having less and less of an impact on their day to day lives, yet still able to blame anyone but themselves for their unhappiness..

[Twosugars]

Originally Posted by parmnion

I don't buy any of that.. You can't blame straight people for a gay persons self loathing..

Gay people seem to have separated themselves from society rather than society shunning them.gay bars, pride marches, flags n banners...

So more and more they isolate themselves, staying amongst their own...society having less and less of an impact on their day to day lives, yet still able to blame anyone but themselves for their unhappiness..

I'm talking about gay people before coming out who view their gayness as something to overcome bc it is not viewed favourably by society. True it is changing now, but even now it's not everywhere.
Young gay person grows up aware gayness is used as an insult at school, parents may want grandchildren, the list goes on. And so they develop self-loathing of that part of themselves and wish they could be straight not to disappoint the expectations.
You're going on about separation which largely does not exist. Sure there are gay venues etc but that's to do with providing safe spaces where there's no judgement if you want to kiss somebody or hold their hand.
For somebody supposedly interested in fighting for our rights you seem to have very little understanding of basic stuff, Parm.
And btw, coming out and living openly as a gay person has a huge positive impact. Gay people are not unhappy as you seem to be saying.

[Beso]

Originally Posted by Twosugars

I'm talking about gay people before coming out who view their gayness as something to overcome bc it is not viewed favourably by society. True it is changing now, but even now it's not everywhere.
Young gay person grows up aware gayness is used as an insult at school, parents may want grandchildren, the list goes on. And so they develop self-loathing of that part of themselves and wish they could be straight not to disappoint the expectations.
You're going on about separation which largely does not exist. Sure there are gay venues etc but that's to do with providing safe spaces where there's no judgement if you want to kiss somebody or hold their hand.
For somebody supposedly interested in fighting for our rights you seem to have very little understanding of basic stuff, Parm.
And btw, coming out and living openly as a gay person has a huge positive impact. Gay people are not unhappy as you seem to be saying.

You brought unhappiness into the discussion so no winder you use the hang your head smiley


Surely its more shame in the family home rather than society itself that makes the majority of people afraid to come out, come out.

[Maru]

Originally Posted by parmnion

Surely its more shame in the family home rather than society itself that makes the majority of people afraid to come out, come out.

Yeah I kind of agree with this. There's lots of things many of us are "accosted" for in society relating to stigmas growing up... part of becoming a whole person is rebutting and saying f** society and what it feels.

Though if your childhood was not supportive, it's very difficult to get off the ground. The emphasis shouldn't be on fixing "society" though, because society is not "fixable" and can't be micromanaged in that way... but rather, finding like-minded folk who will support those individuals and help guide them on their path.

I would think the lack of these types of role-models are more the issue. In my experience though, it seems many people prefer a victim-narrative than paving their own way. The problem is when it's most of us claiming dire need in some manner, it's not very good for the social fabric. I read a statistic yesterday, that nearly 40% of kids hitting 21 (or something like that) were born to unwed mothers... I knew it was high, but not quite that high.

[Twosugars]

Originally Posted by parmnion

You brought unhappiness into the discussion so no winder you use the hang your head smiley


Surely its more shame in the family home rather than society itself that makes the majority of people afraid to come out, come out.

Did I? It is your thread about god fixing gayness, which implies somebody has to be unhappy about gayness in the first place, right? I didn't bring unhapiness to your thread, your thread is about unhappy gays, full stop.

Ok, then not society but environment, is that better? Environment which include home, school, work, neighbours.

The bottom line is people are born being gay, but they're not born being ashamed/unhappy about being gay. That they acquire from somewhere else. The world around them.