[ChristmasNeeve]

Originally Posted by rusticgal

Why not?...the similarities are there. The wealth...the gifts...the adulation and fixation with children.

You were trying to make out MJ did so much for children and those in hospitals...it does not prove he is innocent.

MO of a paedophile, just like why paedophiles choose to become priests easy access to children and at the time so powerful you weren't allowed question them

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by GoldHeart

I wish people would stop comparing Saville to MJ . Saville never stood trial whereas MJ did ,plus there was evidence to prove Saville was GUILTY .

Exactly but sadly it seems MJs trial was a total waste of time.
So you mentioning a trial means nothing unfortunately
It's seen as a non event Goldheart.

To some he waas guilty, the law shouldn't hsve bothered with investigating him and not bother with Judge or a Jury.
So much for the law.

Then he's accused of abandoning this pair.
You raised he had his family.
It was fired back at you their abuse took place before his children was born.

That's the time frame of this pairs story.

It would never be considered,.why he spent less and less time with them.
Of the possible reason his own children came along and they were what mattered righty to him then.

You are totally right too in that MJ was in fact tried and cleared.
A world away from the Saville issue.

Good luck to you Goldheart however in your reasoning.

[Parmy]

Originally Posted by GoldHeart

Wowww I wasn't using his charity work to excuse anything. I simply said he stood trial and was found INNOCENT , you can't label someone a "paedophile" just because you think he's weird .

He was highly investigated for years !!! . Had negative media coverage for years !! .

Nothing like Saville!

A blatant cover up is a blatant cover up.

[Christmas Lights]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

Exactly but sadly it seems MJs trial was a total waste of time.
So you mentioning a trial means nothing unfortunately
It's seen as a non event Goldheart.

To some he waas guilty, the law shouldn't hsve bothered with investigating him and not bother with Judge or a Jury.
So much for the law.

Then he's accused of abandoning this pair.
You raised he had his family.
It was fired back at you their abuse took place before his children was born.

That's the time frame of this pairs story.

It would never be considered,.why he spent less and less time with them.
Of the possible reason his own children came along and they were what mattered righty to him then.

You are totally right too in that MJ was in fact tried and cleared.
A world away from the Saville issue.

Good luck to you Goldheart however in your reasoning.

Yeah we're all going round in circles in appears . But I will continue to stick with facts just like you & Kaz as we a know these allegations make zero sense.

Exactly why bother with a court & law if people still think "no smoke without fire" .

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Well no, you're saying that money may possibly be a motive to lie which is true BUT the claim often pushed on this thread is more that "there's money involved so they are obviously lying" which is false.

The money and the judging the validity of the claims are largely unrelated to be honest. Especially in the US where seeking financial compensation when one feels "wronged" is baked into the legal culture.

Except it can't be, because if they are lying, then money is an obvious motive for that lie.

[Rustic bauble]

Originally Posted by GoldHeart

Yeah we're all going round in circles in appears . But I will continue to stick with facts just like you & Kaz as we a know these allegations make zero sense.

Exactly why bother with a court & law if people still think "no smoke without fire" .

Because many have been found guilty in a court of law and then found innocent years later...many have been found not guilty when hard evidence failed to prove without doubt by biased jurors...
To me and many others the facts and allegations make complete sense..

[Christmas Lights]

Originally Posted by rusticgal

Because many have been found guilty in a court of law and then found innocent years later...many have been found not guilty when hard evidence failed to prove without doubt by biased jurors...
To me and many others the facts and allegations make complete sense..

While ignoring these new allegations are by 2 people who are known liars ?? .

And who are suing the Jackson estate for billion dollars , why are their stories so credible?? . Why didn't the film cover their history & backgrounds more? .

why only focus on word of mouth for a wasted 4 hours?. Why edit 45 mins out when people question inconsistencies? , nobody can ever answer me that ?? .

Wade adamantly said from a child with his mum & sister that MJ "would NEVER do that and that he was shocked at the allegations " . His Mum & Sister were backing that story up saying they've spent time at Neverland and seen that they all just watch videos & eat food .

The sister said she has slept there as well and I quote "mj would never hurt my brother" .

For years Wade continued to defend MJ until he got rejected for a tribute show & got into financial trouble ,then out the blue he appears on telly 2013 saying MJ abused him .

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by rusticgal

Why not?...the similarities are there. The wealth...the gifts...the adulation and fixation with children.
You were trying to make out MJ did so much for children and those in hospitals...it does not prove he is innocent.

Doesn't prove he is a pedo either.

[Christmas Lights]

Plus the mockumentary Implies Brett Barnes was abused by MJ so he's suing HBO . And lets not forget the BS claims by an old maid saying Maculay Culkin was abused , when Culkin has been defending MJ and still defends him today.

[FaLaLaLand]

Originally Posted by GoldHeart

If Wade & James' story is so true then why have they constantly changed their stories and contradicted time lines ??. According to them all MJ ever did was abuse them every day ! While getting drunk ,Without working or spending time with his own family & kids .

Plus why has Leaving Neverland edited a huge chunk out the film ???

Because unless we've been sexually abused ourselves as young children (or actually, ever) we have absolutely no idea what that does to someone and how it affects them or their decisions. & even then, everyone is extremely different.

I can't even begin to imagine how something like that affects even the most basic functioning and rationale of a person.

[Christmas Lights]

Originally Posted by Jonnii

Because unless we've been sexually abused ourselves as young children (or actually, ever) we have absolutely no idea what that does to someone and how it affects them or their decisions. & even then, everyone is extremely different.

I can't even begin to imagine how something like that affects even the most basic functioning and rationale of a person.

Once again no addressing of all the inconsistencies ?? or why HBO cut a huge chunk out of the film ???

[thesheriff443]

One question to those who believe mj is innocent,

Would you give 21 million to a blackmailer if you was innocent?.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Jonnii

Because unless we've been sexually abused ourselves as young children (or actually, ever) we have absolutely no idea what that does to someone and how it affects them or their decisions. & even then, everyone is extremely different.

I can't even begin to imagine how something like that affects even the most basic functioning and rationale of a person.

So, with that excuse, they can do literally anything because "people react extremely differently". How convenient.

[Christmas Lights]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

So, with that excuse, they can do literally anything because "people react extremely differently". How convenient.

And let's forget about HBO cutting out huge bits of the film when things don't add up .

[user104658]

Originally Posted by GoldHeart

And let's forget about HBO cutting out huge bits of the film when things don't add up .

I keep reading this on here but I can't find anything about it otherwise? Is there a source for this or any indication of what exactly has been cut, and when?

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

So, with that excuse, they can do literally anything because "people react extremely differently". How convenient.

It might be "convenient" or for some reason amusing to you Marsh but it is also true; there is no "standard reaction" for victims of abuse or emotional trauma.

The idea that there is is what leads people to sweeping incorrect judgements about mental health, addiction, etc. As so much (the majority) of drug addiction is linked to childhood emotional trauma but then you get idiots saying things like "Well the same thing / worse happened to me and I'M not a thieving junkie so it's not true that it's because of that!!"

Whether you like it or not human emotion is individual and unpredictable. People can go through exactly the same thing and some will be open about it straight away some will take it to their grave. Some will rage and cry, some will seem totally blank. It just is what it is.

The idea that because abuse victim A) reacts nothing like abuse victim B), one of them must be lying, is just false and uneducated. And not really "convenient" at all.

[Christmas Lights]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I keep reading this on here but I can't find anything about it otherwise? Is there a source for this or any indication of what exactly has been cut, and when?

Google it and you'll see ,in fact I'll post link
Once it was released it was the full 4 hours , but since people have questioned time lines & inconsistencies , then they conveniently cut out 45 minutes .

Things that don't make sense is Wade's wife claiming she had never experienced abuse & has no knowledge of it ,but on their charity page it says she's a survivor of abuse

The birthday message is edited weird & misleading as it was recorded months before Wade's birthday .

Jimmy says he told his mother in 2005 that mj was a "bad person" , but he's changed that story and said in 2013 that's when he told his mum about the abuse . Yet she claims she danced /celebrated when she heard MJ died

There's also dates they've mixed up with mj & the Grammy awards .

Those are a few at the top of my head

[Christmas Lights]

Also another important inconsistency is Wade claiming the dinner he had at neverland with mj & his family was the moment he felt he had to testify in court for Michael as he didn't want to take mj away from his kids , but that dinner happened after he already stood in court for mj defending him .

I thought the hbo website cut chunks out ,but must be on other websites. I watched a couple YouTube videos about it where both halves was chopped down .

[thesheriff443]

I see no one wants to answer my question!

[user104658]

Originally Posted by GoldHeart

Google it and you'll see ,in fact I'll post link
Once it was released it was the full 4 hours , but since people have questioned time lines & inconsistencies , then they conveniently cut out 45 minutes .

Things that don't make sense is Wade's wife claiming she had never experienced abuse & has no knowledge of it ,but on their charity page it says she's a survivor of abuse

The birthday message is edited weird & misleading as it was recorded months before Wade's birthday .

Jimmy says he told his mother in 2005 that mj was a "bad person" , but he's changed that story and said in 2013 that's when he told his mum about the abuse . Yet she claims she danced /celebrated when she heard MJ died

There's also dates they've mixed up with mj & the Grammy awards .

Those are a few at the top of my head

Originally Posted by GoldHeart

Also another important inconsistency is Wade claiming the dinner he had at neverland with mj & his family was the moment he felt he had to testify in court for Michael as he didn't want to take mj away from his kids , but that dinner happened after he already stood in court for mj defending him .

Well, I still have the original HBO airing so I'll fact check this later as as far as my memory goes, some of the things you're claiming were said in the original were not.

Off the top of my head; I remember wade's wife saying she didn't know much about the strange ways that abuse can come out with abuse victims. I don't remember her specifically saying she had not experienced abuse.

I also remember Safechuck saying that he told his mum he wouldn't testify for Jackson and that he wasn't a good man in 2005 (as he refused to testify and she was telling him he should because Michael was his friend), but possibly that he didn't specifically tell her (or anyone) about the actual abuse until 2013. Not sure about his mother's comments re: her reaction when he died but easily enough explained by her being likely to have suspicions anyway after James refusing to testify in 2005, or even just her retrospectively trying to make herself look better.

Also I'm 99% sure the claim that Wade says he realised he should testify when at Jackson's for dinner is false, as I quite specifically remember him saying that he decided to testify for the defense when MJ's lawyer (or someone else close to him) talked to him and said "He could go to prison. Can you imagine what would happen to someone like Michael in a prison?"


I also still can't find a link trying to Google this. Not even a Jackson fansite (which I'm not interested in btw I'd need to see something less biased than that)

[Christmas Lights]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Well, I still have the original HBO airing so I'll fact check this later as as far as my memory goes, some of the things you're claiming were said in the original were not.

Off the top of my head; I remember wade's wide saying she didn't know much about the strange ways that abuse can come out with abuse victims. I don't remember her specifically saying she had not experienced abuse.

I also remember Safechuck saying that he told his mum he wouldn't testify for Jackson and that he wasn't a good man in 2005 (as he refused to testify and she was telling him he should because Michael was his friend), but possibly that he didn't specifically tell her (or anyone) about the actual abuse until 2013. Not sure about his mother's comments re: her reaction when he died but easily enough explained by her being likely to have suspicions anyway after James refusing to testify in 2005, or even just her retrospectively trying to make herself look better.

Also I'm 99% sure the claim that Wade says he realised he should testify when at Jackson's for dinner is false, as I quite specifically remember him saying that he decided to testify for the defense when MJ's lawyer (or someone else close to him) talked to him and said "He could go to prison. Can you imagine what would happen to someone like Michael in a prison?"


I also still can't find a link trying to Google this. Not even a Jackson fansite (which I'm not interested in btw I'd need to see something less biased than that)

Are you saying the version you've seen DOESN'T have the things I mentioned?
The mj birthday message?
Wade's wife saying she has no knowledge of abuse in her experience?
Wade talking about the family dinner and deciding to testify?

Like I said it might be other websites that's cut bits out

[user104658]

Originally Posted by GoldHeart

Are you saying the version you've seen DOESN'T have the things I mentioned?

The mj birthday message?

Wade's wife saying she has no knowledge of abuse in her experience?

Wade talking about the family dinner and deciding to testify?



Like I said it might be other websites that's cut bits out

I've not checked yet, this is from memory. I am near enough 100% on Wade deciding to testify when someone talked to him and said that Michael clearly wouldn't be able to handle prison; not at the dinner at Jackson's.

The copy I have is the one first aired on HBO. I downloaded and watched it straight after it aired, before it was even screened in the UK, and that's the copy I still have so unless a Jackson fan has hacked my hard drive and replaced the file, it definitely hasn't been cut or altered.

[thesheriff443]

Originally Posted by GoldHeart

Are you saying the version you've seen DOESN'T have the things I mentioned?
The mj birthday message?
Wade's wife saying she has no knowledge of abuse in her experience?
Wade talking about the family dinner and deciding to testify?

Like I said it might be other websites that's cut bits out

Can you answer my question about giving money to a blackmailer as the most defending mj, say these liars are doing it for money.

[Christmas Lights]

Originally Posted by thesheriff443

Can you answer my question about giving money to a blackmailer as the most defending mj, say these liars are doing it for money.

Are you still talking about the Jordy Chandler case ?? .

Also there's misconceptions that it was "hush money" when it was a civil lawsuit .

Evans Chandler was a proven crook & Liar ,Jordy fled the country conveniently after the pay out .

[Christmas Lights]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I've not checked yet, this is from memory. I am near enough 100% on Wade deciding to testify when someone talked to him and said that Michael clearly wouldn't be able to handle prison; not at the dinner at Jackson's.

The copy I have is the one first aired on HBO. I downloaded and watched it straight after it aired, before it was even screened in the UK, and that's the copy I still have so unless a Jackson fan has hacked my hard drive and replaced the file, it definitely hasn't been cut or altered.

Well something doesn't add up , I remember seeing a clip of Wade saying he didn't want mj's kids to not have a dad . He mentions the dinner being before him testifying . Unless he's changed his story , wait what am I saying both Wade & Jimmy have changed their stories over & over .