[thesheriff443]

Originally Posted by GoldHeart

Are you still talking about the Jordy Chandler case ?? .

Also there's misconceptions that it was "hush money" when it was a civil lawsuit .

Evans Chandler was a proven crook & Liar ,Jordy fled the country conveniently after the pay out .

Yes I am!, as this was were the sex abuse allegations started.

As to it being a civil case or a criminal one you would still want to clear your name and if it was a liar and a cheat that was blackmailing him, would that not be a bigger reason to fight it out in court.

Stop trying to dismiss me!

Answer the question, would you give 21 million to a blackmailer if you was innocent??

[thesheriff443]

Let me make it easy.

If you give 21 million to a liar you can’t throw your toys out of the pram if more liars come along.

[Christmas Lights]

Originally Posted by thesheriff443

Yes I am!, as this was were the sex abuse allegations started.

As to it being a civil case or a criminal one you would still want to clear your name and if it was a liar and a cheat that was blackmailing him, would that not be a bigger reason to fight it out in court.

Stop trying to dismiss me!

Answer the question, would you give 21 million to a blackmailer if you was innocent??

Trying to dismiss you ???? that's funny ,there's other people writing in this Mj thread not just you . How self entitled .

Also I was responding to TS if you paid attention earlier .

And personally NO I wouldn't pay anyone that much money if I was innocent , but you can flip it the other side and say why accept the money if your child genuinely had been abused! . I feel it's irrelevant this conversation though as we all know Evan Chandler set mj up . Evan drugged his own son to lie . And was recorded saying he wants to get everything he can & ruin mj , no mention of his son suffering.

Plus the case could still of been filed for a criminal court of law , but Evan just wanted mj's money, and it's very telling that jordy disappeared later on and Evan committing suicide . People around mj advised him on things , he just wanted to move on .Plus he was likely going on tour at the time ,so people are talking in his ear telling him to do this etc .

[thesheriff443]

Originally Posted by GoldHeart

Trying to dismiss you ???? that's funny ,there's other people writing in this Mj thread not just you . How self entitled .

Also I was responding to TS if you paid attention earlier .

And personally NO I wouldn't pay anyone that much money if I was innocent , but you can flip it the other side and say why accept the money if your child genuinely had been abused! . I feel it's irrelevant this conversation though as we all know Evan Chandler set mj up . Evan drugged his own son to lie . And was recorded saying he wants to get everything he can & ruin mj , no mention of his son suffering.

Plus the case could still of been filed for a criminal court of law , but Evan just wanted mj's money, and it's very telling that jordy disappeared later on and Evan committing suicide . People around mj advised him on things , he just wanted to move on .Plus he was likely going on tour at the time ,so people are talking in his ear telling him to do this etc .

You were avoiding my question evening putting a sleep emoji on, when the first case was the start of the accusations, so now it’s not relivent?

You was cherry picking from the from the thread!

You answered my question, you would not pay the money.

I don’t write an essay to answer a simply question.

[joeysteele]

I would never say I was guilty if I wasn't.
I'd fight it completely.

I would not give any money to anyone to avoid defending myself against their allegations.

The celebrity world however is a really weird place to be and existence and a norm doesn't really apply.

Kazanne posted a video,.dismissed by those against Jackson no matter what.
If a divine messenger came and said Jackson was innocent, they'd be dismissed too likely.

In that video,.those around MJ advised him to let that money be paid to Chandler.
It is clearly stated in the video, although dismissed by his haters.
That MJ didn't want or approve the money being paid, he wanted it taken to court and him fight the claim.
He was, with all those advising him, not to do so.
In other words, more taken out of his hands.

Now the haters can poo poo that all they like but in 2005 he did fight against all charges, again I say, 10 serious charges and 4 minor charges.
Even with all the claims of the 90s too, being allowed to be raised in that 2005 trial.
He was still in spite of that successful in clearing his name, being found not guilty on ALL charges.
Read out individually.

No I would not give anything to anyone if I was innocent.
As with most celebrities however they don't likely handle their affairs so rely on trusted advisors to do the best for them.

I tell everyone something else I wouldn't do however too, I'd never under oath in a court for any reasons, testify someone was innocent if they weren't.

As to this pair, now changing their stories near a decade later.
Waiting for MJ himself however to have died, removing from him the chance and right to fight their story as he did all those charges in 2005.

With no legal repercussions for them likely to come either, which they know too.

[Christmas Lights]

Originally Posted by thesheriff443

You were avoiding my question evening putting a sleep emoji on, when the first case was the start of the accusations, so now it’s not relivent?

You was cherry picking from the from the thread!

You answered my question, you would not pay the money.

I don’t write an essay to answer a simply question.

I'm also not a celebrity billionaire , the civil lawsuit doesn't make the issue go away as the person can still file a proper crime case plus there was no evidence to match mj as guilty. it is irrelevant ! as the first allegation by Chandler was BS .
You avoid the fact that the dad was a crook & Liar using his son .

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by thesheriff443

Let me make it easy.

If you give 21 million to a liar you can’t throw your toys out of the pram if more liars come along.

The operative word being liars.
You are correct mostly in your last paragraph.

However far from throwing his toys out the pram, MJ did fight the new liars in court and won.
After the most invasive personal investigation into him, as to his person, his home and belongings.

People can dismiss that all they like, however that is one of the proven facts of the MJ issue.
As well as the payment to the Chandler's.

I repeat the celebrity world at the levels MJ was at, is a probable strange mixed up existence anyway.

Most celebs don't even know where they need to be until reminded by their trusted advisors.

[thesheriff443]

Originally Posted by GoldHeart

I'm also not a celebrity billionaire , the civil lawsuit doesn't make the issue go away as the person can still file a proper crime case plus there was no evidence to match mj as guilty. it is irrelevant ! as the first allegation by Chandler was BS .
You avoid the fact that the dad was a crook & Liar using his son .

You are tieing yourself up in knots.

So if it never made anything go away why pay it?

If there was no evidence why pay it?

If the man was using his son why pay it?

If he could still face a criminal court case why pay it?

[Christmas Lights]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

I would never say I was guilty if I wasn't.
I'd fight it completely.

I would not give any money to anyone to avoid defending myself against their allegations.

The celebrity world however is a really weird place to be and existence and a norm doesn't really apply.

Kazanne posted a video,.dismissed by those against Jackson no matter what.
If a divine messenger came and said Jackson was innocent, they'd be dismissed too likely.

In that video,.those around MJ advised him to let that money be paid to Chandler.
It is clearly stated in the video, although dismissed by his haters.
That MJ didn't want or approve the money being paid, he wanted it taken to court and him fight the claim.
He was, with all those advising him, not to do so.
In other words, more taken out of his hands.

Now the haters can poo poo that all they like but in 2005 he did fight against all charges, again I say, 10 serious charges and 4 minor charges.
Even with all the claims of the 90s too, being allowed to be raised in that 2005 trial.
He was still in spite of that successful in clearing his name, being found not guilty on ALL charges.
Read out individually.

No I would not give anything to anyone if I was innocent.
As with most celebrities however they don't likely handle their affairs so rely on trusted advisors to do the best for them.

I tell everyone something else I wouldn't do however too, I'd never under oath in a court for any reasons, testify someone was innocent if they weren't.

As to this pair, now changing their stories near a decade later.
Waiting for MJ himself however to have died, removing from him the chance and right to fight their story as he did all those charges in 2005.

With no legal repercussions for them likely to come either, which they know too.

Yeah I think I watched that video kaz posted ,and I've seen a few on YouTube about it . Some People want to believe it was "hush money" which is false. I've said same thing about his advisers telling him this & that ,mj was always under pressure .

And yes exactly 2005 he was cleared of everything including back to the 93 case .

Its easy for us to say we'd never pay out money, but in America they do especially when they can afford to .

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by GoldHeart

Yeah I think I watched that video kaz posted ,and I've seen a few on YouTube about it . Some People want to believe it was "hush money" which is false. I've said same thing about his advisers telling him this & that ,mj was always under pressure .

And yes exactly 2005 he was cleared of everything including back to the 93 case .

Its easy for us to say we'd never pay out money, but in America they do especially when they can afford to .

Yes they do pay out in the States.
Also as you said we are not celebrity billionaires.

[thesheriff443]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

The operative word being liars.
You are correct mostly in your last paragraph.

However far from throwing his toys out the pram, MJ did fight the new liars in court and won.
After the most invasive personal investigation into him, as to his person, his home and belongings.

People can dismiss that all they like, however that is one of the proven facts of the MJ issue.
As well as the payment to the Chandler's.

I repeat the celebrity world at the levels MJ was at, is a probable strange mixed up existence anyway.

Most celebs don't even know where they need to be until reminded by their trusted advisors.

I think you will find that he had no choice in fighting the second lot of so called liars as it was a criminal case and he could not buy his way out of a court room.

[Christmas Lights]

Originally Posted by thesheriff443

You are tieing yourself up in knots.

So if it never made anything go away why pay it?

If there was no evidence why pay it?

If the man was using his son why pay it?

If he could still face a criminal court case why pay it?

Do you actually read what I wrote & even what Joey wrote ? .

The celebrity world is not our world , I'm not tieing myself in anything .

Mj has advisors around him pressuring him . Yeah maybe he could of refused but MJ wanted to carry on working without any issues.

[thesheriff443]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

Yes they do pay out in the States.
Also as you said we are not celebrity billionaires.

Only in America can you buy your innocence.

[thesheriff443]

Originally Posted by GoldHeart

Do you actually read what I wrote & even what Joey wrote ? .

The celebrity world is not our world , I'm not tieing myself in anything .

Mj has advisors around him pressuring him . Yeah maybe he could of refused but MJ wanted to carry on working without any issues.

So work is more is more important than reputation?

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by thesheriff443

I think you will find that he had no choice in fighting the second lot of so called liars as it was a criminal case and he could not buy his way out of a court room.

The point is he did.
He could have pleaded guilty if he ever was.

You can't have it all ways.
You stated if liars cone along a second time he can't throw his toys out the pram.

He did face that investigation, he did go to court.

Now like the others, you can dismiss that.
However to your point when new liars did come along.
He fought it in court and they were deemed liars and him not.

Ignore that valid point all you like but that is a proven fact.

I'd dare bet, if he was here today.
He'd be fighting these 2 now in court againwith the likely same outcome.

Although they may then have faced charges for perjury before.
Of course he isn't here now.
Very conveniently for this pair.
With their appeal against his estate for money coming up.

I actually hope their appeal fails because I just do not accept their story.
You likely do, so we will get nowhere.
I answered your question anyway.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by thesheriff443

So work is more is more important than reputation?

Yes, position, status success do get clouded.
Not just as to money paid to people.

The celebrity world has had gay people marry to present what was seen as acceptable to prejudice.

Avoiding getting married and hiding romantic involvement so as not to lose fanbases.

From celebs to company directors, to politicians.

The really rich and entertainment world is riddled with things avoiding the realities.
Money used to protect that.
Also money sought by liars, your words, knowing that to be the case.

Easy money to be got from the rich,in the cause of protection from devious liars.
Or from those feeling any kind of rejection too.

[ChristmasNeeve]

Originally Posted by GoldHeart

Are you still talking about the Jordy Chandler case ?? .

Also there's misconceptions that it was "hush money" when it was a civil lawsuit .

Evans Chandler was a proven crook & Liar ,Jordy fled the country conveniently after the pay out .

I wouldn't blame him, the backlash from MJ fans is what made his father commit suicide or atleast contributed towards it

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by Jonnii

Because unless we've been sexually abused ourselves as young children (or actually, ever) we have absolutely no idea what that does to someone and how it affects them or their decisions. & even then, everyone is extremely different.

I can't even begin to imagine how something like that affects even the most basic functioning and rationale of a person.

I was abused Jonnii and know how it feels, and I think the documentary is full of BS.

[ChristmasNeeve]

Originally Posted by Kazanne

I was abused Jonnii and know how it feels, and I think the documentary is full of BS.

Look at all the children who were abused by priests in the Catholic Church though, an awful lot of those people didn't come forward until years later. It's clear from the documentary that those men had parents who wanted to push the "relationships" their sons had with MJ for their own selfish reasons so I would imagine coming forward to them wouldn't have been easy, they don't come across like they were ever really in their childs corner

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by thesheriff443

Let me make it easy.

If you give 21 million to a liar you can’t throw your toys out of the pram if more liars come along.

If I thought someone was guilty of molesting my child ,no amout of money would pay me off,the Chandlers were in it for the money ,if you watch the video sheriff there is a tape of Chandler saying he wants money (The dad Evan,not the son)

[ChristmasNeeve]

Originally Posted by Kazanne

If I thought someone was guilty of molesting my child ,no amout of money would pay me off,the Chandlers were in it for the money ,if you watch the video sheriff there is a tape of Chandler saying he wants money

Clearly though, the parents of these kids aren't like "normal" parents. I would hope most decent parents would never have put their child into such a precarious situation in the first place

[joeysteele]

S

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Look at all the children who were abused by priests in the Catholic Church though, an awful lot of those people didn't come out until years later. It's clear from the documentary that those men had parents who wanted to push the "relationships" their sons had with MJ for their own selfish reasons so I would imagine coming forward to them wouldn't have been easy, they don't come across like they were ever really in their childs corner

And the guilty Priests when accused and alive have had to have trials and been found guilty in the main.

Something you always want to dismiss as to MJ, having said trial.
With a verdict you don't seem to accept.

Thankfully in law it should be seen as right just as a guilty verdict should have been too.

[ChristmasNeeve]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

S

And the guilty Priests when accused and alive have had to have trials and been found guilty in the main.

Something you always want to dismiss as to MJ, having said trial.
With a verdict you don't seem to accept.

Thankfully in law it should be seen as right just as a guilty verdict should have been too.

The conviction rate for cases like sexual abuse and rape is very low so alot of the times I would dismiss results of cases yes. Unfortunately such a crime is very hard to prove, so being found "not guilty" alot of times just means "not provable" I mean that case in NI with the rugby players is a prime example, the girl got into a taxi crying and covered in blood.....but those men were still found "not guilty" so what hope does anyone with no physical evidence and taking on a multi million dollar mega star have?

[Christmas Lights]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

The conviction rate for cases like sexual abuse and rape is very low so alot of the times I would dismiss results of cases yes. Unfortunately such a crime is very hard to prove, so being found "not guilty" alot of times just means "not provable" I mean that case in NI with the rugby players is a prime example, the girl got into a taxi crying and covered in blood.....but those men were still found "not guilty" so what hope does anyone with no physical evidence and taking on a multi million dollar mega star have?

But the factor isn't just the time wade & Jimmy took to come forward , there's a lot of hole's in their stories.

I don't judge or discredit victims who later reveal they were abused,because everyone is different and at the time they're either scared or they worry they won't be believed as usually the abuser has power . It must be difficult how they carry it around for all those years before they get closure& justice.

But Wade & Jimmy aren't in that category, I don't trust them and I don't believe them . plus why try & sue the Jackson estate holding them accountable?!! What kind of crap is that .

If they were genuinely abused by MJ they would just get their story out there without wanting money. They could of just stuck to interviews as they'll make money from that. Plus Wade has his little scam charity website, this whole thing reeks of greed am afraid.

[Kazanne]

Is Wade Robson lying here on the sofa laughing with the host

Youtube video