[Denver]

It's clear as day he is a pedo

[GoldHeart]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/829005...er-and-author/

Name I haven't seen before in all of this, and not seeking cash either.

Once again all this is OLD rubbish that was debunked .

That German guy was selling fake mj memorabilia online and he got caught out ! .

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Does your ability to remember things have anything at all to do with the Jackson case or statements made by his family or accusers? Surely the only reason you mentioned that you can remember the specifics of dinner parties, was to back up that claim that Jackson's nephew remembers the specifics of the dinner parties Wade Robson attended.

I was saying that - regardless OF YOUR abilities with memory - it's not very likely that Jackson's nephew does remember these details so clearly.

I have, without needing to, entertained your barrage of questioning for long enough.

You should be well aware of my feelings and conclusions I've made on this issue, after listening to all now, people on here, off here, this pair of accusers themselves, plus what is past on the issue too.

Your constant nitpicking and subtle digs at things I say as to my excellent memory and my judgements etc.
Is really wearing very thin now.

Read through my posts if really interested in my thinking on this, there are plenty of them.
If not really interested and you therefore are just pressing on with, what I see, I stress what personally I see, just possible irritating nonsense.

Well kindly move on to someone else who is bothered to deal with that.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by GoldHeart

Once again all this is OLD rubbish that was debunked .

That German guy was selling fake mj memorabilia online and he got caught out ! .

Fair enough, I am not as invested in this as you are so will bow to your knowledge. Was just a name that came up on a thread elsewhere that I had not seen before. I still don't believe that all the boys/men who have said they were abused are doing it just for the cash though. Its highly unlikely, one or two yeah fair enough, but theres been I think 7 overall? Each one is discredited immediately and money seeking, including the staff who say they saw dodgy stuff...always some reason to disbelieve, which tbh comes across as nothing but...pure faith. Not looking at things objectively.

Anyway, I decided I would leave the thread pages back but keep reading it and getting sucked in. So, attempting to leave again now as its just going round in circles tbh

[Vicky.]

Also before I go, I really don't think TS is just nitpicking here, It IS highly unusual for anyone to remember every dinner they have had since aged 10. I believe you joey, however its not the norm at all, you really do have quite a skill there. Thats not me trying to be patronising or whatever, it really is unusual and, quite amazing tbh.

[chuff me dizzy]

Originally Posted by GoldHeart

I wish people would stop comparing Saville to MJ . Saville never stood trial whereas MJ did ,plus there was evidence to prove Saville was GUILTY .

BOTH paedophiles so fine to be compared

[user104658]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

I have, without needing to, entertained your barrage of questioning for long enough.

You should be well aware of my feelings and conclusions I've made on this issue, after listening to all now, people on here, off here, this pair of accusers themselves, plus what is past on the issue too.

Your constant nitpicking and subtle digs at things I say as to my excellent memory and my judgements etc.
Is really wearing very thin now.

Read through my posts if really interested in my thinking on this, there are plenty of them.
If not really interested and you therefore are just pressing on with, what I see, I stress what personally I see, just possible irritating nonsense.

Well kindly move on to someone else who is bothered to deal with that.

If you don't want to debate then don't debate Joey but I'm afraid being questioned and "nitpicking" is part of debating a topic. If you want to just "have your say" and have that etched in stone without questioning, or if being questioned and asked to qualify statements that are of questionable logic and come with sometimes frankly outlandish claims - (for example; "it's usual for people to remember every dinner they've ever been to because I have an excellent memory") then why are you engaging in debate?

If you find being pushed and questioned on your statements "irritating nonsense", and being asked to justify those statements somehow "offensive", then I would suggest that debate and discussion forums are not your most advisable pastime? Though of course that is entirely up to you, I'm not "telling you what to do!!", as I know perceived orders are another thing you're not fond of.

However... no, I'm not going to "move on" and let your posts go unchallenged - in a debate forum - because you don't like being questioned. If you can't be bothered with it feel free to ignore those questions, but I will still be asking them.

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by chuff me dizzy

BOTH paedophiles so fine to be compared

You said that about Cliff Richards Chuff,he was also found not guilty,it cant be the 'laws' fault all the time surely.

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

If you don't want to debate then don't debate Joey but I'm afraid being questioned and "nitpicking" is part of debating a topic. If you want to just "have your say" and have that etched in stone without questioning, or if being questioned and asked to qualify statements that are of questionable logic and come with sometimes frankly outlandish claims - (for example; "it's usual for people to remember every dinner they've ever been to because I have an excellent memory") then why are you engaging in debate?

If you find being pushed and questioned on your statements "irritating nonsense", and being asked to justify those statements somehow "offensive", then I would suggest that debate and discussion forums are not your most advisable pastime? Though of course that is entirely up to you, I'm not "telling you what to do!!", as I know perceived orders are another thing you're not fond of.

However... no, I'm not going to "move on" and let your posts go unchallenged - in a debate forum - because you don't like being questioned. If you can't be bothered with it feel free to ignore those questions, but I will still be asking them.

I don't mind being questioned it's when it's the same old,same old it becomes monotonous, you believe them,we don't pretty simple really, and really no need to be so condescending to Joey , you know no more than us.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

If you don't want to debate then don't debate Joey but I'm afraid being questioned and "nitpicking" is part of debating a topic. If you want to just "have your say" and have that etched in stone without questioning, or if being questioned and asked to qualify statements that are of questionable logic and come with sometimes frankly outlandish claims - (for example; "it's usual for people to remember every dinner they've ever been to because I have an excellent memory") then why are you engaging in debate?

If you find being pushed and questioned on your statements "irritating nonsense", and being asked to justify those statements somehow "offensive", then I would suggest that debate and discussion forums are not your most advisable pastime? Though of course that is entirely up to you, I'm not "telling you what to do!!", as I know perceived orders are another thing you're not fond of.

However... no, I'm not going to "move on" and let your posts go unchallenged - in a debate forum - because you don't like being questioned. If you can't be bothered with it feel free to ignore those questions, but I will still be asking them.

Challenge any post of mine you like however by now you must know my position on this, as I've listed it and debated same with you.

Keeping on coming back however, when my position is clear, as yours is to me too, and I don't agree with you on this and likely never will.
Is a waste of time and energy.

So do what you like but don't expect responses from me.
If you wish to waste your time that's fine.
I however have no wish to waste mine.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Kazanne

I don't mind being questioned it's when it's the same old,same old it becomes monotonous, you believe them,we don't pretty simple really

You would think so but apparently not; how many times has the phrase "proven liars!" been used in this thread? You and others have argued as strongly for your beliefs as those who disagree with you have so why are you pretending that it's any different? Yes it's often the same arguments over and over again... but on all sides - don't be a hypocrite.

and really no need to be so condescending to Joey , you know no more than us.

I wouldn't have thought Joey needs you to speak for him and I also haven't claimed to know more than anyone else - all I said was that if one isn't prepared to have their statements questioned then they MIGHT think twice before stating them but I also pointed out that that's entirely Joey's business. Other than that I only said that, no, I won't "move on to someone else" and stop questioning things that I disagree with because someone thinks it's "wearing thin" and finds it "irritating"... and that is entirely my business.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

Challenge any post of mine you like however by now you must know my position on this, as I've listed it and debated same with you.

Keeping on coming back however, when my position is clear, as yours is to me too, and I don't agree with you on this and likely never will.
Is a waste of time and energy.

When I challenge people's opinions I'm not necessarily looking to change that person's mind, I'm stating my view for the benefit of the conversation as a whole, so whether or not your opinion will change is not really relevant.

So do what you like but don't expect responses from me.
If you wish to waste your time that's fine.
I however have no wish to waste mine.

That's fair enough and all I've asked for. I'll continue to quote and comment on your posts if I disagree with what you're saying, again for the benefit of the conversation as a whole not to try to change your mind, but you're under no obligation to respond or even read my posts.

[Beso]

Another telling fact about this is that everyone claiming to have had stuff done and the people who claim to have seen things...and the le toya reveal.....well, they all tie in with what he is accused off...to me that is to big a coincidence to ignore.....he had a certain type and taste, and all these claims prove that.

[chuff me dizzy]

Originally Posted by Kazanne

You said that about Cliff Richards Chuff,he was also found not guilty,it cant be the 'laws' fault all the time surely.

Wait until after he dies

[chuff me dizzy]

Originally Posted by parmnion

Another telling fact about this is that everyone claiming to have had stuff done and the people who claim to have seen things...and the le toya reveal.....well, they all tie in with what he is accused off...to me that is to big a coincidence to ignore.....he had a certain type and taste, and all these claims prove that.

[chuff me dizzy]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

You would think so but apparently not; how many times has the phrase "proven liars!" been used in this thread? You and others have argued as strongly for your beliefs as those who disagree with you have so why are you pretending that it's any different? Yes it's often the same arguments over and over again... but on all sides - don't be a hypocrite.



I wouldn't have thought Joey needs you to speak for him and I also haven't claimed to know more than anyone else - all I said was that if one isn't prepared to have their statements questioned then they MIGHT think twice before stating them but I also pointed out that that's entirely Joey's business. Other than that I only said that, no, I won't "move on to someone else" and stop questioning things that I disagree with because someone thinks it's "wearing thin" and finds it "irritating"... and that is entirely my business.

Ive asked for proof from someone ( Not Kaz or Joey) who has repeatably called Jimmy and Wade this ,Im still waiting for his proof

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by chuff me dizzy

Ive asked for proof from someone ( Not Kaz or Joey) who has repeatably called Jimmy and Wade this ,Im still waiting for his proof

The proof is that they already lied at MJs trial........therefore he did abuse them?

[Epic.]

Originally Posted by parmnion

Another telling fact about this is that everyone claiming to have had stuff done and the people who claim to have seen things...and the le toya reveal.....well, they all tie in with what he is accused off...to me that is to big a coincidence to ignore.....he had a certain type and taste, and all these claims prove that.

I looked into the LaToya detail and it doesn't correlate with these claims at all. At the time she had a very abusive boyfriend and had a history of being made say things she wouldn't have wanted to otherwise, one of which being the accusation of calling her brother a pedophile. IF he was, I doubt he'd comfortably tell any family members about it

[chuff me dizzy]

Originally Posted by Epic.

I looked into the LaToya detail and it doesn't correlate with these claims at all. At the time she had a very abusive boyfriend and had a history of being made say things she wouldn't have wanted to otherwise, one of which being the accusation of calling her brother a pedophile. IF he was, I doubt he'd comfortably tell any family members about it

3 times La Toya made the same claims, years apart ..Not just once

[AnnieK]

Originally Posted by Epic.

I looked into the LaToya detail and it doesn't correlate with these claims at all. At the time she had a very abusive boyfriend and had a history of being made say things she wouldn't have wanted to otherwise, one of which being the accusation of calling her brother a pedophile. IF he was, I doubt he'd comfortably tell any family members about it

I highly doubt he told anyone if he was abusing. If true, I would imagine La Toya was talking about things she saw and what she had witnessed herself, not that Michael had said "hey, guess what, I am a pedophile!"

[chuff me dizzy]

Originally Posted by AnnieK

I highly doubt he told anyone if he was abusing. If true, I would imagine La Toya was talking about things she saw and what she had witnessed herself, not that Michael had said "hey, guess what, I am a pedophile!"

She also spoke of her mother hush money writing cheques for the abused children and their families

[Beso]

Originally Posted by Epic.

I looked into the LaToya detail and it doesn't correlate with these claims at all. At the time she had a very abusive boyfriend and had a history of being made say things she wouldn't have wanted to otherwise, one of which being the accusation of calling her brother a pedophile. IF he was, I doubt he'd comfortably tell any family members about it

Or you could interprete it as la toya telling her husband all about it and then him saying "hey hun, you really should say something, your brother is a dangerous man" then legally after the "family had got their hands on her she could easily say that her husband "told" her to say it...I'm assuming another cheque was written in la toya name this time though.

[Beso]

You are correct though epic, she did have a history of having to say things she didn't want to say...things like.

Michael aint a pedo...Jermaines fault.

[Twosugars]

https://www.theguardian.com/music/20...france-lawsuit

Michael Jackson fan groups to sue accusers for 'sullying his memory'
Robson Wade and James Safechuck, who in HBO documentary accuse Jackson of child sex abuse, face legal action in France

Three Michael Jackson fan groups are suing his alleged victims in France for “sullying his memory” by taking part in the Leaving Neverland documentary, the fans’ lawyer told Agence France-Presse on Friday.

The Michael Jackson Community – which claims to be the “official fan club forum” – and the MJ Street and On The Line groups accuse Robson Wade and James Safechuck of “lynching” Jackson.

The case, which will heard by a court in Orléans in northern France in July, follows reports that Jackson’s children were also considering taking legal action against the men, who say that Jackson sexually abused them when they were children.

Lawyer Emmanuel Ludot, who has previously successfully sued Jackson’s doctor for causing distress to his fans by giving him the drugs that killed him, said the groups “want to discredit the accusations of paedophilia” against Jackson.

Ludot said the “indignity of the extremely grave accusations” made by Wade and Safechuck in Leaving Neverland had sullied the memory of the singer, who died in 2009.

Jackson’s image had been affected by the allegations as well as “the whole community of his fans”, the lawyer said.

Leaving Neverland was first broadcast in the US on HBO earlier this month and has since broken streaming records in Britain.

The film has outraged some of Jackon’s fans, who have waged an often vicious social media campaign against his accusers.

A number of radio stations, from Australia to Canada have stopped playing Jackson’s music after the documentary was aired, and the creators of The Simpsons also shelved one of the animated series’ classic episodes because it featured Jackson’s voice.

French luxury brand Louis Vuitton dropped Jackson-themed clothing on Thursday from a collection it had shown at Paris fashion week in January, saying it found the “allegations in the documentary deeply troubling and disturbing”.

Virgil Abloh, the first black designer to lead a major Paris fashion house, was assailed by Jackson fans on social media for the decision.

“Shame on you for removing all items related to Michael Jackson,” one wrote on Instagram, while another accused him of being a “traitor … on the white people side”.

In 2014, French lawyer Ludot won nominal damages of €1 (80¢) from Jackson’s personal doctor Conrad Murray for the hurt he had caused to his fans for his part in the singer’s death.

Murray was jailed for four years for manslaughter for giving Jackson what turned out to be a lethal dose of the anaesthetic drug propofol to help him sleep.

[Beso]

So internet fan groups can now sue individuals for alleged defimation of their hero's character..in france.


Switch of the light people..memo was right we all should just end things.