[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

What you said didn't warrant a response and no one is trying to police threads other than you, Marsh. What I was pointing out is that the idea of you suddenly lecturing people on what is and isn't unnecessary is utterly bizarre and given that it seems to be pretty much confined to this thread, I'm comfortable enough in putting it down to being agenda-driven.

Didn't warrant a response, yet gave one anyway. Kind of sums it up.

Yes, I think you coming in and being personal with a bunch of people for daring to have a different opinion to you and daring to continue to discuss the ongoing story/interviews/developments in the thread (despite you apparently having grown bored of it) is unnecessary. Think what the hell you want about me, I don't care.

Now, I have an "agenda". Ok.
Whether Michael Jackson was or was not a pedophile, whether Wade and James are telling the truth or a pack of lies, whether they want justice or money makes ZERO difference to my life. But, yeah, call it whatever makes you comfortable.

The only "agenda" I may have is being sick and tired of the likes of you deciding when "enough is enough" in a discussion. The thread will continue for as long as the story is in the headlines, and as long as members on here care enough to contribute to it. Regardless of what you find pointless or repetitive or boring.

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

Didn't warrant a response, yet gave one anyway. Kind of sums it up.

Yes, I think you coming in and being personal with a bunch of people for daring to have a different opinion to you and daring to continue to discuss the ongoing story/interviews/developments in the thread (despite you apparently having grown bored of it) is unnecessary. Think what the hell you want about me, I don't care.

Now, I have an "agenda". Ok.
Whether Michael Jackson was or was not a pedophile, whether Wade and James are telling the truth or a pack of lies, whether they want justice or money makes ZERO difference to my life. But, yeah, call it whatever makes you comfortable.

The only "agenda" I may have is being sick and tired of the likes of you deciding when "enough is enough" in a discussion. The thread will continue for as long as the story is in the headlines, and as long as members on here care enough to contribute to it. Regardless of what you find pointless or repetitive or boring.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

Didn't warrant a response, yet gave one anyway. Kind of sums it up.

Yes, I think you coming in and being personal with a bunch of people for daring to have a different opinion to you and daring to continue to discuss the ongoing story/interviews/developments in the thread (despite you apparently having grown bored of it) is unnecessary. Think what the hell you want about me, I don't care.

Now, I have an "agenda". Ok.
Whether Michael Jackson was or was not a pedophile, whether Wade and James are telling the truth or a pack of lies, whether they want justice or money makes ZERO difference to my life. But, yeah, call it whatever makes you comfortable.

The only "agenda" I may have is being sick and tired of the likes of you deciding when "enough is enough" in a discussion. The thread will continue for as long as the story is in the headlines, and as long as members on here care enough to contribute to it. Regardless of what you find pointless or repetitive or boring.

I mean it's a decent attempt however, unfortunately, we don't get to change the narrative on a forum because it only takes a click to check the facts;

Originally Posted by Marsh.

Sorry, but if we're condemning a dead man for accusations he can't defend himself against on the basis that said man was weird and eccentric then the entire frigging world has gone stark raving mad.

Yes, he was strange (the whole bloody family are rather weird) but that itself is not evidence of anything.

Post #29 on a 1500 post thread before the doc had even aired. Your leanings have been evident since literally the second page but you're trying to argue that you don't have one and are just now, today, saying something because of something I said yesterday.

Come on Marsh. At least try. Own your bias and by all means make an argument from that point but don't just start screeching that the sky is green and that you have no personal or emotional stake in the topic. Not when you tilted your hand in that regard on your first post in the thread, several weeks ago.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Post #29 on a 1500 post thread before the doc had even aired. Your leanings have been evident since literally the second page but you're trying to argue that you don't have one and are just now, today, saying something because of something I said yesterday.

Come on Marsh. At least try. Own your bias and by all means make an argument from that point but don't just start screeching that the sky is green and that you have no personal or emotional stake in the topic. Not when you tilted your hand in that regard on your first post in the thread, several weeks ago.

I'd return the favour but this is an appalling attempt at... whatever it is you're attempting to do.

The post you quote was pretty much my response to a bunch of people using the "Well, Michael Jackson WAS weird wasn't he guys?" as "evidence" of his guilt as a pedophile. I have no idea how that gives me an emotional stake in the topic but, yeah keep trying. I never suggested I had no opinions on the topic and everything that has been going on with this documentary. Just that whatever the actual TRUTH is, not what he or she said, or what is suggested by a certain piece of evidence on either side, but the actual TRUTH makes zero impact on my life.

So... still not quite sure what you're getting at. But, as I said earlier, whatever makes you comfortable in your ruling that the discussion is over.... seemingly because you have finished contributing.... apparently when your frequent postings in the thread say otherwise.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

I'd return the favour but this is an appalling attempt at... whatever it is you're attempting to do.

The post you quote was pretty much my response to a bunch of people using the "Well, Michael Jackson WAS weird wasn't he guys?" as "evidence" of his guilt as a pedophile. I have no idea how that gives me an emotional stake in the topic but, yeah keep trying. I never suggested I had no opinions on the topic and everything that has been going on with this documentary. Just that whatever the actual TRUTH is, not what he or she said, or what is suggested by a certain piece of evidence on either side, but the actual TRUTH makes zero impact on my life.

So... still not quite sure what you're getting at. But, as I said earlier, whatever makes you comfortable in your ruling that the discussion is over.... seemingly because you have finished contributing.... apparently when your frequent postings in the thread say otherwise.

OK Marsh. You haven't chosen a side on this topic at all, you've been totally neutral throughout, and have swooped in in outrage at the suggestion that the thread has become an obvious circlejerk, not because of any personal leaning on the topic, but because you felt a duty to protect the innocents of the thread against such heinous accusations. How dare!

Its a fun story so we'll go with it I guess.

Let's go back to the original point;


I don't think the thread is a debate or a discussion if its just people posting painfully dumb YouTube videos at each other and clapping each other on the back. I think it's a pointless circle-jerk. I don't care if you think that's harsh or disagree and I don't understand why you would think it's your place to step in "on principle" for the people posting them but again, I'm willing to accept that's what you're doing if you say it is, it doesn't change my opinion either way. 'tis in my opinion a pointless, boring circle-jerk and if saying so is against the rules then someone will infract me for it. Fair?

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

OK Marsh. You haven't chosen a side on this topic at all, you've been totally neutral throughout, and have swooped in in outrage at the suggestion that the thread has become an obvious circlejerk, not because of any personal leaning on the topic, but because you felt a duty to protect the innocents of the thread against such heinous accusations. How dare!

Its a fun story so we'll go with it I guess.

Where did I say I hadn't debated a side of the discussion when it comes to the validity of Wade Johnson or the Leaving Neverland documentary itself or comments made by others discussing it?

Where did I say "I'm neutral guys, I'm not saying a bad word about anyone and I'm not defending any sides or giving my opinion on the statements or "evidence" given on either side"? Oh, that's right, I didn't.

You quoted an opinion I gave on people jumping on the "Well, Michael Jackson was eccentric" as though that's any kind of proof of anything, just as much as I think I've pointed out the entirely ludicrous comments of the documentary maker himself, including his disastrous interview on GMB.

What I denied was an insinuation made by you that I have some kind of emotional stake in all of this whereby I refuse to believe Jackson was guilty and therefore cannot bear any argument against him. I've come in and pointed out I don't see the documentary as "proof" he was guilty. But if he IS guilty it has zero impact on me, just as if it's proven he is not. So you're attempt at labelling me biased is ludicrous.

That doesn't prevent me from commenting and giving my opinion on the validity of Johnson and the families, the stories, the history of the allegations against Jackson, his trial and 'Leaving Neverland'.

Have I defended Jackson and argued his innocence? No, don't think I've done that either. I've commented on people, comments, stories and allegations. The same as anyone else.

My response to you wasn't because you believe Wade's allegations, but because you're trying to stop the discussion because you apparently don't wish to continue with it. "I've said everything I want to say guys, anything else to be said is repetition, so why don't you all shush!" I'd have responded to that attitude regardless of which side of the debate you fell on.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

Where did I say I hadn't debated a side of the discussion when it comes to the validity of Wade Johnson or the Leaving Neverland documentary itself or comments made by others discussing it?



Where did I say "I'm neutral guys, I'm not saying a bad word about anyone and I'm not defending any sides or giving my opinion on the statements or "evidence" given on either side"? Oh, that's right, I didn't.



You quoted an opinion I gave on people jumping on the "Well, Michael Jackson was eccentric" as though that's any kind of proof of anything, just as much as I think I've pointed out the entirely ludicrous comments of the documentary maker himself, including his disastrous interview on GMB.



What I denied was an insinuation made by you that I have some kind of emotional stake in all of this whereby I refuse to believe Jackson was guilty and therefore cannot bear any argument against him. I've come in and pointed out I don't see the documentary as "proof" he was guilty. But if he IS guilty it has zero impact on me, just as if it's proven he is not. So you're attempt at labelling me biased is ludicrous.



That doesn't prevent me from commenting and giving my opinion on the validity of Johnson and the families, the stories, the history of the allegations against Jackson, his trial and 'Leaving Neverland'.



My response to you wasn't because you believe Wade's allegations, but because you're trying to stop the discussion because you apparently don't wish to continue with it. "I've said everything I want to say guys, anything else to be said is repetition, so why don't you all shush!" I'd have responded to that attitude regardless of which side of the debate you fell on.

Yes I already said that I'm willing to pretend accept that this was the reason for your cavalry charge but I also already responded with that being the case;

I don't think the thread is a debate or a discussion if its just people posting painfully dumb YouTube videos at each other and clapping each other on the back. I think it's a pointless circle-jerk. I don't care if you think that's harsh or disagree and I don't understand why you would think it's your place to step in "on principle" for the people posting them but again, I'm willing to accept that's what you're doing if you say it is, it doesn't change my opinion either way. 'tis in my opinion a pointless, boring circle-jerk and if saying so is against the rules then someone will infract me for it. Fair?

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

Didn't warrant a response, yet gave one anyway. Kind of sums it up.

Yes, I think you coming in and being personal with a bunch of people for daring to have a different opinion to you and daring to continue to discuss the ongoing story/interviews/developments in the thread (despite you apparently having grown bored of it) is unnecessary. Think what the hell you want about me, I don't care.

Now, I have an "agenda". Ok.
Whether Michael Jackson was or was not a pedophile, whether Wade and James are telling the truth or a pack of lies, whether they want justice or money makes ZERO difference to my life. But, yeah, call it whatever makes you comfortable.

The only "agenda" I may have is being sick and tired of the likes of you deciding when "enough is enough" in a discussion. The thread will continue for as long as the story is in the headlines, and as long as members on here care enough to contribute to it. Regardless of what you find pointless or repetitive or boring.

Quite a thing for the forum this thread being made.

I gave up on it a while ago but all I had to say is there over many pages in the first 50.

Just come back to commend your post above Marsh.
Oh and also your patience.

Really well done and I agree with all you say above.

[Christmas Lights]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

Quite a thing for the forum this thread being made.

I gave up on it a while ago but all I had to say is there over many pages in the first 50.

Just come back to commend your post above Marsh.
Oh and also your patience.

Really well done and I agree with all you say above.

Welcome back Joey