[Brother Leon]

Worth watching as a counterpoint to the Leaving Neverland documentary.

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by AnnieK

This is going to sound sarcastic, but please believe me, it isn't but IF some irrefutable evidence came out to prove MJ did have sexual relationships with these or other boys, would you guys then condemn him or still believe, as Streisand obviously does, that his upbringing were to blame and so in some way his actions can be excused?

I would not be the fan I am now but I would not stop playing his music,there are also celebrities (Diana Ross,Will-I-am) etc who have also said they do not believe the accustations so no different to some of us really, Streisand is unsure imo,she just doesn't want to be seen as 'sticking up for him' hence the apology ,also if the shoe was on the other foot and those two men were found to be lying would people feel bad for accusing him,I don't think they would as the theory is set in their minds already.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

But Annie's point was about them absolving him of blame due to his upbringing, not his work.

I know?

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

I know?

I said that because you said "absolve him because of his fame and career" not his upbringing.

[bots]

I never liked Jackson's music, i never liked Jackson, I always thought he was very dodgy, and being eccentric does not excuse anyone for preying on little kids. That being said, the guy is dead, he can do no more harm, so it's of no concern to me what other peoples view is of him and I really don't know what either side of the arguments hope to achieve by regurgitating stuff over and over again. In terms of world problems its about as low on the priority list as you could get.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

I never liked Jackson's music, i never liked Jackson, I always thought he was very dodgy, and being eccentric does not excuse anyone for preying on little kids. That being said, the guy is dead, he can do no more harm, so it's of no concern to me what other peoples view is of him and I really don't know what either side of the arguments hope to achieve by regurgitating stuff over and over again. In terms of world problems its about as low on the priority list as you could get.

There's nothing to be gained by the public but there is plenty for his victims; bringing historic abuse out into the open can finally give closure and a sense of at least some sort of justice. Harbouring things like this unheard destroys lives.

My argument really has eff all to do with MJ, my "interest" in this or reason for continuing to argue against those who would vilify his accusers is that all victims of abuse should be able to share their story without being torn down and attacked for it. That is HUGELY important, whether the perpetrator is alive or dead.

I mean when it comes down to the story itself, my reaction has never been "what scum!" or "what an unforgivable paedo!" ... it's just "what an all around tragic and horrible story". Michael Jackson's life is a horror story and I don't know how anyone can deny that, even with ALL of the accusations out of the equation, he had an absolutely bizarre childhood, and adulthood, destroyed his face with surgery after surgery, and had terrible addiction problems that wound up killing him. He undeniably had SIGNIFICANT mental health problems, and a tragic part of that (in my belief) involved being sexually inappropriate with young boys. But his story is still a sad one in itself. Funnily enough - I get the strong impression that James Safechuck and especially Wade Robson themselves understand that.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Brother Leon

Worth watching as a counterpoint to the Leaving Neverland documentary.

very interesting, especially the timeline regarding the alleged Cirque de Soleil booking and subsequent dropping for Robson and also Safechucks claim that he refused to testify for Jackson second time round when he was never called by the defence

[bots]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

There's nothing to be gained by the public but there is plenty for his victims; bringing historic abuse out into the open can finally give closure and a sense of at least some sort of justice. Harbouring things like this unheard destroys lives.

My argument really has eff all to do with MJ, my "interest" in this or reason for continuing to argue against those who would vilify his accusers is that all victims of abuse should be able to share their story without being torn down and attacked for it. That is HUGELY important, whether the perpetrator is alive or dead.

I mean when it comes down to the story itself, my reaction has never been "what scum!" or "what an unforgivable paedo!" ... it's just "what an all around tragic and horrible story". Michael Jackson's life is a horror story and I don't know how anyone can deny that, even with ALL of the accusations out of the equation, he had an absolutely bizarre childhood, and adulthood, destroyed his face with surgery after surgery, and had terrible addiction problems that wound up killing him. He undeniably had SIGNIFICANT mental health problems, and a tragic part of that (in my belief) involved being sexually inappropriate with young boys. But his story is still a sad one in itself. Funnily enough - I get the strong impression that James Safechuck and especially Wade Robson themselves understand that.

but the people are not bringing anything into the open, there is nothing new in any of it. Jackson was who he was. Nothing is being achieved. Also, the more allegations that go on, the more it reduces the earning potential for his legacy, so the less money is going to be available for any "victims". It's all self-defeating

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

I said that because you said "absolve him because of his fame and career" not his upbringing.

I was just moving on the conversation

[chuff me dizzy]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

I never liked Jackson's music, i never liked Jackson, I always thought he was very dodgy, and being eccentric does not excuse anyone for preying on little kids. That being said, the guy is dead, he can do no more harm, so it's of no concern to me what other peoples view is of him and I really don't know what either side of the arguments hope to achieve by regurgitating stuff over and over again. In terms of world problems its about as low on the priority list as you could get.

There is no excuse for taking away children innocence for your own self want and perversion

[GoldHeart]

It's as if we're not allowed to think MJ is innocent , and it's like we musn't question Wade & James despite the financial motivation & the dodgy backgrounds .

People call MJ "weird" & "manipulative" but what about Wade & James ? .Wade called himself "master of deception" , what kind of victim calls himself that? .

And if MJ was alive today I doubt they would of come forward claiming they'd been abused . As MJ would fight them on it & like with the 93 & 03 cases they'd fall to pieces due to all the inconsistencies & contradictions.By suing the estate after the man is dead they can't get challenged by him as he's not around to defend himself.

I honestly hope their appeal gets rejected. They're using Leaving Neverland as some kind of messed up insurance to back up their graphic insane stories because they have NO REAL PROOF !! .

[Brother Leon]

Originally Posted by GoldHeart

It's as if we're not allowed to think MJ is innocent , and it's like we musn't question Wade & James despite the financial motivation & the dodgy backgrounds .

People call MJ "weird" & "manipulative" but what about Wade & James ? .Wade called himself "master of deception" , what kind of victim calls himself that? .

And if MJ was alive today I doubt they would of come forward claiming they'd been abused . As MJ would fight them on it & like with the 93 & 03 cases they'd fall to pieces due to all the inconsistencies & contradictions.By suing the estate after the man is dead they can't get challenged by him as he's not around to defend himself.

I honestly hope their appeal gets rejected. They're using Leaving Neverland as some kind of messed up insurance to back up their graphic insane stories because they have NO REAL PROOF !! .

This is what makes the whole thing just uncomfortable tbh. It’s putting a dead person on trial through media with no real substantial evidence. So we either tarnish a dead man’s name or accuse potential sex abuse victims as liars. Just a mess of a situation.

For what it’s worth, I think it’s untrue and it’s not because it’s MJ. Too many stories just don’t add up with either previous testimony or simple facts and I’m just not going to brand someone a paedophile in that scenario.

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by Brother Leon

This is what makes the whole thing just uncomfortable tbh. It’s putting a dead person on trial through media with no real substantial evidence. So we either tarnish a dead man’s name or accuse potential sex abuse victims as liars. Just a mess of a situation.

For what it’s worth, I think it’s untrue and it’s not because it’s MJ. Too many stories just don’t add up with either previous testimony or simple facts and I’m just not going to brand someone a paedophile in that scenario.

Well said Brother Leon, but I fear the damage has already been done.

[Nancy.]

So according to him, Safechuck was still being abused at 16 / 17 - which completely goes against their narrative in the movie. How many more times are their stories going to change?

This hole they've dug themselves into just keeps getting deeper and deeper.

[GoldHeart]

Originally Posted by Brother Leon

This is what makes the whole thing just uncomfortable tbh. It’s putting a dead person on trial through media with no real substantial evidence. So we either tarnish a dead man’s name or accuse potential sex abuse victims as liars. Just a mess of a situation.

For what it’s worth, I think it’s untrue and it’s not because it’s MJ. Too many stories just don’t add up with either previous testimony or simple facts and I’m just not going to brand someone a paedophile in that scenario.

Sensible post

Sadly the pop culture we live in now is jumping to conclusions and anyone can say they were abused today or 30 years ago without proof and it's taken as gospel , the media love bashing MJ alive & dead .

As soon as Safechuck mentioned the ridiculous "wedding ring " , the tabloids had a field day twisting old footage of MJ shopping in disguise . That footage is old and it only reamerged after the allegations . MJ was only in disguise so he doesn't get mobbed, he had a kid possibly Safechuck so that he could speak for MJ as people would recognise his voice, he even told a security guard at the time that he's incognito because of that . Not everything is sinister.

MJ was actually buying kids stuff , even if he bought jewellery doesn't mean it was a wedding ring for a Mock wedding . I hate how things get taken out of context & the media runs with it in a frenzy ! .

[Beso]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.the...nd-person.html

[Beso]

Originally Posted by GoldHeart

Sensible post

Sadly the pop culture we live in now is jumping to conclusions and anyone can say they were abused today or 30 years ago without proof and it's taken as gospel , the media love bashing MJ alive & dead .

As soon as Safechuck mentioned the ridiculous "wedding ring " , the tabloids had a field day twisting old footage of MJ shopping in disguise . That footage is old and it only reamerged after the allegations . MJ was only in disguise so he doesn't get mobbed, he had a kid possibly Safechuck so that he could speak for MJ as people would recognise his voice, he even told a security guard at the time that he's incognito because of that . Not everything is sinister.

MJ was actually buying kids stuff , even if he bought jewellery doesn't mean it was a wedding ring for a Mock wedding . I hate how things get taken out of context & the media runs with it in a frenzy ! .

You have just described a guilty paedophile in the middle of grooming his child victim.

[GoldHeart]

Originally Posted by parmnion

You have just described a guilty paedophile in the middle of grooming his child victim.

No I haven't , people like Diane Diamond ,Tom Sneddon , Martin Bashir & Victor Gutierrez are the ones with dirty minds that twisted anything MJ did and tried to make it seem sinister .

Also if they care so much about stopping abuse ,how come NON of them seemed bothered about Jordy Chandler getting beaten almost to death by his psychotic dad ! .

Also everyone ignores Guittierez the real pervert , who wrote a slanderous book on MJ full of paedophilia.

[Beso]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/themich...l-jackson/amp/

[Nancy.]

Michael Jackson biographer claims he’s uncovered evidence that could disprove child sex abuse allegations

https://www.nme.com/news/music/micha...mpression=true

Speaking to the Mirror Online on Friday (March 29), Smallcombe made reference to the fact that Robson said the abuse started when his family went to the Grand Canyon and he stayed behind with Jackson at Neverland. But Smallcombe claims that Robson’s mother, Joy, told a court under oath in 1993 that Robson actually joined them on them trip.

[Nicky91]

oh shocking breakthrough, tbh i believe this immediately, and this proves they made stuff up for attention

[Nicky91]

James Safechuck's story also proving to be a bit false here and there


WTF was this was all for attention making that leaving neverland documentary

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Nancy.

Michael Jackson biographer claims he’s uncovered evidence that could disprove child sex abuse allegations

https://www.nme.com/news/music/micha...mpression=true

Speaking to the Mirror Online on Friday (March 29), Smallcombe made reference to the fact that Robson said the abuse started when his family went to the Grand Canyon and he stayed behind with Jackson at Neverland. But Smallcombe claims that Robson’s mother, Joy, told a court under oath in 1993 that Robson actually joined them on them trip.

We already know that the Robsons testified in Jackson's defense in 1993 how is this in any way new information. Honestly some people must make Christmas so easy for their families. Put last year's gift in a different box and wrap a bow around it, and it becomes a brand new present.

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

We already know that the Robsons testified in Jackson's defense in 1993 how is this in any way new information. Honestly some people must make Christmas so easy for their families. Put last year's gift in a different box and wrap a bow around it, and it becomes a brand new present.

Is there any need to be so condescending ?You may know the ins and outs of a ducks arse about MJ but not everyone does,Nancy is just posting information, you don't have to read it,but some of us want to.

[Beso]

I WATCHED THE NEW SAVILLE THING WITH LOIUS THERROUX ON NETFLIX LAST NIGHT....

he was interviewing one of the girls saville abused, she is now about 50 yr old....she laughed as she recounted the abuse.