[bots]

Victims of crimes, including those alleging rape, are to be asked to hand their phones over to police - or risk prosecutions not going ahead.

Consent forms asking for permission to access information including emails, messages and photographs have been rolled out in England and Wales.

It comes after a number of rape and serious sexual assault cases collapsed after crucial evidence emerged.

Victim Support said the move could stop victims from coming forward.

But police and prosecutors say the forms are an attempt to plug a gap in the law which says complainants and witnesses cannot be forced to disclose phones, laptops, tablets or smart watches.

Director of Public Prosecutions Max Hill said they would only be looked at where it forms a "reasonable line of enquiry", with only relevant material going before a court if it meets stringent rules.

The digital consent forms can be used for complainants in any criminal investigations but are most likely to be used in rape and sexual assault cases, where complainants often know the suspect.

The forms state that victims will be given the chance to explain why they don't want to give consent for police to access data, but they are also told: "If you refuse permission for the police to investigate, or for the prosecution to disclose material which would enable the defendant to have a fair trial then it may not be possible for the investigation or prosecution to continue."

Asking victims, complainants and witnesses - including those alleging rape - to consent to having their smartphones and mobile devices examined is a big ask.

Most modern phones have more computing power than that which powered the first Nasa missions.

They contain photographs (sometimes intimate), emails and social media postings - (sometimes deeply personal, sometimes indiscreet) - not to mention text messages written in haste.

Many people guard the contents of their smartphones jealously and would regard a police examination as an invasion of privacy.

Civil liberties groups have raised concerns that victims may not report crimes if they fear their smartphone will need to be examined.

However, the police do not have the power simply to seize the phones of victims and witnesses, so consent is the only option. Will people willingly hand over their devices? Would you?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-48086244

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This is very serious, and a major step backward I think

[Crimson Dynamo]

"It comes after a number of rape and serious sexual assault cases collapsed after crucial evidence emerged."

[thesheriff443]

Phones give so much information and they can retrieve deleted messages and memory from them and often used to track missing persons and criminals.

[Niamh.]

I mean it's important that all available evidence is checked my only issue is that stuff could be used that isn't relevant to the case in an attempt to assassinate the accusers character or "morals" as is often done to victims in rape cases. The prosecution making out the victim is a slut because of the knickers she was wearing etc.

Imo, the Police should be allowed check it but only use stuff directly linked to whoever the accused is/potential evidence to the particular crime. Not for example see she logged onto Tindr so therefore was asking for it, if you get what I mean

[Denver]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

I mean it's important that all available evidence is checked my only issue is that stuff could be used that isn't relevant to the case in an attempt to assassinate the accusers character or "morals" as is often done to victims in rape cases. The prosecution making out the victim is a slut because of the knickers she was wearing etc.

Imo, the Police should be allowed check it but only use stuff directly linked to whoever the accused is/potential evidence to the particular crime. Not for example see she logged onto Tindr so therefore was asking for it, if you get what I mean

Not all rape victims are women

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Adam.

Not all rape victims are women

No they're not, but it seems to be only the ones who are women that get their names and sexual history dragged through the mud in court cases

[Denver]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

No they're not, but it seems to be only the ones who are women that get their names and sexual history dragged through the mud in court cases

It's hard to make comparison though as a very high number of men dont come forward

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Adam.

It's hard to make comparison though as a very high number of men dont come forward

A very high number of victims of sexual assault/rape don't come forward Adam, but what we do know is that women have their character and morals assassinated in courts when they do. I've not seen that happen to male victims of rape. Women have had their underwear passed around the courtroom and used as evidence as to why she couldn't have been raped. Womens sexual history has been brought into the arguments as to why she couldn't have been raped. Do you not agree with that?

[Ammi]

...although it may be that there have been cases where accessing a phone could have given crucial information, I wonder how many cases that would have been...it’s a difficult one because in general I’m against the police having this access...phones hold so much of people’s lives, their passwords to everything...and I don’t think this is information which should be forced into sharing...

[Tom4784]

I think it's a bad idea since it's going to put off people from reporting since it's something that will make them feel like they're in the wrong. In cases of rape, victims already have felt violated and I think this will definitely stop people coming forward because a fair few victims will see this as another violation.

As for the whole male/female victims and the differences. I did research into it for my first book and male victims are generally, in the west at least, seen more sympathetically than female victims. It's less of an uphill battle for men since it's so rare for them to come forward that they aren't doubted as much as women and they don't tend to be victim blamed as much ('She wore a short skirt' etc). The way we handle the aftermath and the prosecution for both genders is awful. We don't do enough to encourage men to come forward and we demonise female victims in court.

[user104658]

The major problem is the possibility of self-incrimination. Let's say a drugs user is raped; and unrelated to that, her phone is full of text messages back and forward with her dealer. Obviously, that person is going to be VERY wary (flat out unlikely) to hand over their phone to the police. Does that person just have to accept that they can't get justice for something as serious as sexual assault, because they don't want the authorities having free access to their devices?

It doesn't even have to be something like drugs... it could be simple references to basic things... like downloading movies off the internet... buying a Kodi box off your dodgy neighbour. Minor things that are realistically not going to cause problems, but would make many victims think twice about handing over a phone.

Not to mention just personal stuff... like intimate pictures, or even just text mesages between partners. It's not even about those being used as "evidence against the claim" - it's just that it's totally understandable for people to not want anyone - even a police officer - reading through their personal messages that are meant for close friends and family! There's literally nowt dodgy on my phone (it's all on my PC ) but I still wouldn't hand it over to anyone for them to read through text conversations between me and my wife. Just no.

[BBDodge]

Wouldn't have been necessary if the police and CPS weren't devious, trying to get a wrongful conviction.

[bots]

the first thing the prosecution will do now is demand that the "victim" disclose their phone info to the police, because if they don't consent the case will almost certainly get thrown out. I think that's wrong.

[Denver]

What I dont get is if it's a random rape attack how will searching the phone help?

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by Adam.

What I dont get is if it's a random rape attack how will searching the phone help?

and how do you ascertain that it is a random rape attack?

[thesheriff443]

Phone evidence has got men convicted of the rape they committed and it has stopped men being wrongly convicted of rape.

Evidence is evidence, so I think it’s good.

[Cherie]

I can understand this being done where a victim or defendant can claim they have evidence on their phone that corroborates their account of what happened where I can't see its value is if the person is raped by a random? or there has been no phone contact between the people involved, this would then indicate that the police don't believe you which isn't the best starting point

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by BBDodge

Wouldn't have been necessary if the police and CPS weren't devious, trying to get a wrongful conviction.

Eh?

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

Eh?

Too much telly if you ask me...

[joeysteele]

I'm actually against this plan.
I think it could even prevent victims coming forward to report the crime.

No, I don't like this.

[thesheriff443]

An example of the police doing the right thing.

An escort agree to meet a man for sex they agreed a price and she insisted he used a condom they had sex he then removed the condom and had sex with her he hit her and left without paying, she went to the police and he was convicted of rape.

[thesheriff443]

A women selling her body for sex, has the same rights as virgin if she is raped.

If phone evidence can prove innocence or guilt it should be used.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by thesheriff443

A women selling her body for sex, has the same rights as virgin if she is raped.

If phone evidence can prove innocence or guilt it should be used.

No one is disputing that in some cases phone evidence can be helpful just not in all cases?

[Beso]

Surely the police would only ask for the phone if need be.

[bots]

What if someone has some dodgy stuff on their phone, a rapist knows this and then targets them for rape knowing that the incident would get thrown out when the victim wouldn't share their phone details.