[Beso]

Originally Posted by Twosugars

I'm beginning to think his hatred of the eu is based on the same whacky ideas

He will be enraged that they have laughed at us and mocked the British way all through this proscess, from beginning to where we are now, they have mocked us.

They will still be doing it as they guzzle thier millionth bottle of expensive plonk, clapping and sneering like ze Germans at us.


Thank **** for nigel, about time he came back.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by parmnion

He will be enraged that they have laughed at us and mocked the British way all through this proscess, from beginning to where we are now, they have mocked us.

They will still be doing it as they guzzle thier millionth bottle of expensive plonk, clapping and sneering like ze Germans at us.


Thank **** for nigel, about time he came back.

I'm no Nigel fan, but that's about the size of it.

[The Slim Reaper]

Originally Posted by parmnion

He will be enraged that they have laughed at us and mocked the British way all through this proscess, from beginning to where we are now, they have mocked us.

They will still be doing it as they guzzle thier millionth bottle of expensive plonk, clapping and sneering like ze Germans at us.


Thank **** for nigel, about time he came back.

But lots of us on this island have also mocked the fact they promised amazing deals the day after the referendum was decided. No one with 2 brain cells should have believed that leaving trade agreements with the EU would allow us to get better deals.

Instead of blaming Europeans, does there ever come a time when you hold your hands up and say that we were lied to, and you believed it? There is no shame in believing someone else's lies when you're invested in the premise, but continuing to pretend it was the truth all along is shameful.

[Beso]

Originally Posted by The Slim Reaper

But lots of us on this island have also mocked the fact they promised amazing deals the day after the referendum was decided. No one with 2 brain cells should have believed that leaving trade agreements with the EU would allow us to get better deals.

Instead of blaming Europeans, does there ever come a time when you hold your hands up and say that we were lied to, and you believed it? There is no shame in believing someone else's lies when you're invested in the premise, but continuing to pretend it was the truth all along is shameful.

When I say they have mocked us I don't mean Europeans as such I mean the negotiating team from the eu....something I have seen from them time and time again but yet to see from our side.

[Vicky.]

No Farage fan by any possible stretch, but, I think declaring him anti-semitic on this is a bit of a joke.

Mind, I also think Farage is a bit of a joke. With his 'back for the people who have been horridly mislead' trope. Yes, the public were mislead, but it was mainly his side that mislead them, and now noone knows what to do with the mess that was made, hence stalling til they know arse from tit, to be frank

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by The Slim Reaper

No one with 2 brain cells should have believed that leaving trade agreements with the EU would allow us to get better
deals.

A much better way of putting the muddled 'mislead' part of the post. Struggled articulating that bit

[The Slim Reaper]

Originally Posted by parmnion

When I say they have mocked us I don't mean Europeans as such I mean the negotiating team from the eu....something I have seen from them time and time again but yet to see from our side.

Yeah, and I still say we were absolutely worthy of being mocked. We thought we'd found a miraculous loophole that could allow us to leave the amazing deal we already had in place, for an even better deal minus the responsibility. The world doesn't work like that, I'm afraid.

The fact your anger is pointed at those who laughed when you told them you wanted a free unicorn, rather than the people who convinced you unicorns exist in the first place, says everything about the lies and BS you still want to buy.

[Beso]

Originally Posted by The Slim Reaper

Yeah, and I still say we were absolutely worthy of being mocked. We thought we'd found a miraculous loophole that could allow us to leave the amazing deal we already had in place, for an even better deal minus the responsibility. The world doesn't work like that, I'm afraid.

The fact your anger is pointed at those who laughed when you told them you wanted a free unicorn, rather than the people who convinced you unicorns exist in the first place, says everything about the lies and BS you still want to buy.

I told them nothing so Im not sure why you decided to be so personal with your last 2 replies....par for the course I guess.


All I'm doing is commenting on the attitude of the eu negotiators towards the uk and it's citizens during this process.

The uk needs people like Farage atm to stand up to these self indulgent morons.

[bots]

Originally Posted by parmnion

I told them nothing so Im not sure why you decided to be so personal with your last 2 replies....par for the course I guess.


All I'm doing is commenting on the attitude of the eu negotiators towards the uk and it's citizens during this process.

The uk needs people like Farage atm to stand up to these self indulgent morons.

all farage has done so far is the equivalent of if you don't do as i say i will knife the country in the head. So its no real wonder they are bemused.

[The Slim Reaper]

Originally Posted by parmnion

I told them nothing so Im not sure why you decided to be so personal with your last 2 replies....par for the course I guess.


All I'm doing is commenting on the attitude of the eu negotiators towards the uk and it's citizens during this process.

The uk needs people like Farage atm to stand up to these self indulgent morons.

It's not personal parm, I'm using "you" as in your side of the argument, not to hurt your ickle feelings. Maybe I just lack empathy like your goodself

All I'm doing is showing you why we were worthy of being laughed at, but you refuse to look at that, and would rather still moan about being laughed at.

The EU negotiators have actually been willing and tolerant to deal with us, they just refuse to bend over and let us take them dry. I'm sorry that makes you angry.

[Beso]

Originally Posted by The Slim Reaper

It's not personal parm, I'm using "you" as in your side of the argument, not to hurt your ickle feelings. Maybe I just lack empathy like your goodself

All I'm doing is showing you why we were worthy of being laughed at, but you refuse to look at that, and would rather still moan about being laughed at.

The EU negotiators have actually been willing and tolerant to deal with us, they just refuse to bend over and let us take them dry. I'm sorry that makes you angry.

It doesn't make angry so there is no need to be as patronising with your ickle comments etc.

You need to watch the storyville documentary made by the eu side if you believe they have been tolerant with us...cause that is way way off the mark as they have been anything but.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by The Slim Reaper

The fact your anger is pointed at those who laughed when you told them you wanted a free unicorn, rather than the people who convinced you unicorns exist in the first place, says everything about the lies and BS you still want to buy.

Quite (no meaning at parm, but generally speaking)

I still have no ****ing clue how on earth people thought we could just ditch the bad parts of being in the EU, and keep the good bits, maybe make the good bits even better! Why the hell would the EU agree to that?! Its just..insane, but so many were convinced that it could happen and some still seem convinced, while others just rage about how 'we' voted leave so just crash out with no deal at all and **** the consequences (despite every leaver I know voting leave whilst thinking we would get a trade deal..and saying they would change that if its no deal because we were basically promised some sort of deal:S ). It is just a huge steaming pile of crap really.

The only way I see out of it is another vote, allowing those who did vote under false pretences (and lies were told on both sides, just seemingly more of them on the leave side) to have their say. As so many leavers voted thinking a deal would be done, then surely, a vote of 'leave with no deal' or 'dont leave' makes sense, and theres good reason for it. Its not doing it because 'remoaners' dont like the result (though it makes me laugh when Farage goes on about that, given just before the votes were even confirmed he was already going on about how he would push for a second vote..obviously assuming stay would win ) its actually so people are actually ****ing informed this time. I have a feeling, that those who wish to plunge us into bigger recession than we have known before and such (ah yes, project fear..ignore the experts) will be in the minority tbh.

I was dead against another vote for ages too. But it really does seem to me to be the only way. EU won't keep granting us extensions, and leaving us in permanent limbo is stupid.

[Livia]

I find it par for the course that remainers think the EU is right to mock us, and leavers are angry about it.

[bots]

Originally Posted by Livia

I find it par for the course that remainers think the EU is right to mock us, and leavers are angry about it.

do you think anyone takes our parliament seriously now? We are a laughing stock across the world, and the EU didn't do that to us, we did it all by ourselves

[Vicky.]

Of course the Eu is right to mock us. Well, to mock those of us who believed that basically, we could lose all the bad bits and keep the good, and possibly even get the good bits better. It really is unbelievable to me that anyone thought that. In what world would that ever happen..its wishful thinking, and I wish they were right, but obviously not :S

[Livia]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

do you think anyone takes our parliament seriously now? We are a laughing stock across the world, and the EU didn't do that to us, we did it all by ourselves

No, I think we look ridiculous after the continued mishandling, month after month... but the EU were never going to give us an easy time. And their behaviour has been questionable at best. You know how much we pay to the EU and what proportion we get back. Of course they were always going to make it difficult.

[The Slim Reaper]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

do you think anyone takes our parliament seriously now? We are a laughing stock across the world, and the EU didn't do that to us, we did it all by ourselves

Such is the ignorant delusion, they still believe the EU should bend to our will.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Of course the Eu is right to mock us. Well, to mock those of us who believed that basically, we could lose all the bad bits and keep the good, and possibly even get the good bits better. It really is unbelievable to me that anyone thought that. In what world would that ever happen..its wishful thinking, and I wish they were right, but obviously not :S

Well, they're mocking us now and they've mocked us from the start. The steel industry in this country is about to collapse, and the EU has to take responsibility for that. But they won't.

Who do you think thought we would keep all the good stuff and lose all the bad stuff. We have to get past this idea that everyone who voted to leave was misinformed and gullible, and those who voted remain... and lost... had it right all the time. The whole of Parliament has mocked everyone who voted to leave. That's worse than the EU mocking us.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by The Slim Reaper

Such is the ignorant delusion, they still believe the EU should bend to our will.

Yeah, I think that was meant for me.

No one here is ignorant, not even you.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Livia

Well, they're mocking us now and they've mocked us from the start. The steel industry in this country is about to collapse, and the EU has to take responsibility for that. But they won't.

Who do you think thought we would keep all the good stuff and lose all the bad stuff. We have to get past this idea that everyone who voted to leave was misinformed and gullible, and those who voted remain... and lost... had it right all the time. The whole of Parliament has mocked everyone who voted to leave. That's worse than the EU mocking us.

Erm I don't think that and have never thought that. I think most were misinformed but it IS mainly leavers I know who regret their vote as they were convinced we would have trade deals and such as..well thats what they were told Hell, right after the results leavers were already fighting among themselves for 'soft' or 'hard' brexit, so they were clearly voting on two seperate things in reality...soft brexit..from what I have seen appears to be wanting the good without the bad. Trade deals with no immigration, that kind of thing.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Erm I don't think that and have never thought that. I think most were misinformed but it IS mainly leavers I know who regret their vote as they were convinced we would have trade deals and such as..well thats what they were told Hell, right after the results leavers were already fighting among themselves for 'soft' or 'hard' brexit, so they were clearly voting on two seperate things in reality...soft brexit..from what I have seen appears to be wanting the good without the bad. Trade deals with no immigration, that kind of thing.

It's all I hear, Vicky... especially on here... how gullible was the electorate who voted to leave, they believed all that money would go to the NHS every year. No one believed that, Not even Boris, I suspect.

I voted leave because I want us to take control of our own borders not be told who we can and can't let in, and so that our courts could not be overruled by foreign judges. The reason we have not left yet, in my view, is twofold... Mrs May is intransigent and would take no advice from anyone, pushing her lame duck deal through time after tie to be voted down. And much of Parliament, including some Tory MPs, would have overruled anything that was produced because the majority of them are remainers, despite what their constituents voted.

If we had no deal on the date we were leaving, we should have just left with no deal. We buy more German cars than the Germans, and look at all the stuff we import from the EU. No one thinks those sellers wouldn't want to sell to us, so it's in the EU's best interest to broker a decent deal for everyone... but no, they can't make it look too easy because if they did, other countries would follow.

One thing I'm certain of... it's a ****ing mess.

[The Slim Reaper]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Erm I don't think that and have never thought that. I think most were misinformed but it IS mainly leavers I know who regret their vote as they were convinced we would have trade deals and such as..well thats what they were told Hell, right after the results leavers were already fighting among themselves for 'soft' or 'hard' brexit, so they were clearly voting on two seperate things in reality...soft brexit..from what I have seen appears to be wanting the good without the bad. Trade deals with no immigration, that kind of thing.

It just get's better. By saying they never believed this or never believed that, then they just reveal themselves as the most easily duped and ignorant voting bloc in the history of the country.

They believed nothing, but when you point out it must have been for xenophobic anti-immigration reasons they have a fit about that too.

They are basically saying that they voted for something for absolutely no reason, without any understanding of why it would be a benefit but want you to take them seriously. I mean c'mon, this is just primary school levels of wish fulfillment.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Livia

It's all I hear, Vicky... especially on here... how gullible was the electorate who voted to leave, they believed all that money would go to the NHS every year. No one believed that, Not even Boris, I suspect.

Of course Boris knew it was bollocks. It was his bollocks in the first place wasn't it?! (what a lovely thought ) Unfortunately, a lot of people were duped by this, and other lies like it. Which was what the lies were meant to do. The lies were not one way, fairly sure I saw a campaign round here with placards stating that if we vote leave, noone in the country would get a pension...

It was all bollocks. Just bollocks on a stick. Stupid idea to have a vote and then basically just have a huge campaign of misinformation.

And now, we are ****ed. People in both camps are pissed off, the government look weak as **** and May is a laughing stock (though I do kind of feel for her..poisned chalice and all that.). I still don't get WHY she was so set on her ****ing deal. Putting the exact same one before them over and over is not going to convince anyone, doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result is the definition of insanity ffs. THEN, trying to get it through by promising to **** off afterwards, knowing how many want shot of her so trying to basically bribe them to vote for the deal, like she bribed the DUP with random money pulled from her arse (when we are apparently broke) just so she could stay in power after her ridiculous decision to call a snap election thinking she would wipe the floor with the equally useless Corbyn! How desperate..would love to know why she was so attached to that deal mind

Honestly, at this stage I struggle to even be coherent when debating this topic. Its gone on way too long, much longer than it should and..well whats left to say really. I just end up swearing a lot

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by The Slim Reaper

It just get's better. By saying they never believed this or never believed that, then they just reveal themselves as the most easily duped and ignorant voting bloc in the history of the country.

They believed nothing, but when you point out it must have been for xenophobic anti-immigration reasons they have a fit about that too.

They are basically saying that they voted for something for absolutely no reason, without any understanding of why it would be a benefit but want you to take them seriously. I mean c'mon, this is just primary school levels of wish fulfillment.

I don't think thats fair tbh. Some voted for reasons other than falling for the lies or being xenophobic.

Though I have to say, in my 'friendship/family' group..it was mainly either falling for the lies or it being about immigration. Along with a fair few who voted to leave while believing pie in the sky 'no immigration or fees, but keep trade deals' stuff whcih was clearly ridiculous.

I mean, I don't pretend I even knew what I was voting for, should have looked up more at the time but was kind of put off the whole thing by all the obvious bull**** that people were falling for, along with the fact that the vote itself seemed to make some people think that it was now fine to be openly racist (again, not calling all leavers racist, but its undeniable that many took it as license to be..loud with ignorant views) It all just made me turn off. Also, again I feel the need to point out that obviously not everyone who had immigration as part of the reason for their vote was being xenophobic or whatever, some were genuine. But a fair few..were basically just like 'get the ****ers out!!!!' (which again was not going to bloody happen either..)

So I voted on better the devil you know really. Rather than being totally informed. I didn't even know on the morning I voted which way I was going to go! But decided that the leave side was just telling more lies, and I would rather no change at all than..possibly totally ****ing the country. Of course it could have really benefitted us, still a slim possibility that it might. But in hindsight, I am fairly sure I made the right call.

Just get so frustrated with it all. And how some people on my life have changed for the worse. Or not changed really, just..showed a hidden side of themselves. And how it seems to be denied that this happens.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Livia

I find it par for the course that remainers think the EU is right to mock us, and leavers are angry about it.

Leavers ARE angry, 'Grrr Remainers! Grrr Theresa May! Grrr the EU! Grrr Diane Abbot!' There's no self reflection there, just blaming everyone but themselves for buying the snake oil.

We are a laughing stock and we deserve to be, the people voted for something they didn't understand and were lied to about it and told to disregard experts who said things they didn't like and now brexit isn't likely to ever happen because the leavers want some idealised idea of Brexit that's never going to happen. We aren't going to magically be better off with no deal and we aren't likely to get a better deal than the one that was on the table.