[user104658]

Originally Posted by Liam-

It should be illegal to not vaccinate your kids imo.

If you don’t want to vaccinate your kids then like, crack on dummy, but don’t then allow their socialise with other kids, it’s unfair and incredibly irresponsible

Originally Posted by Dezzy

Anti-Vaxxers should lose their kids for child endangerment of their own children and other children too young to be vaccinated. There's few things I hate more in this world than Anti-Vaxxers, their ignorance is dangerous and they are representative of everything that is wrong with the world.

I'm not anti-vax (and I hate that I --always-- have to preface this opinion with that) but I completely 100% disagree with this dystopian nonsense . Social media is responsible for a lot of the anti-vax movement, yes that's probably true, but it's also responsible for the frankly bizarre levels of terror that surround vaccine-preventable illness, the majority of which are minor and self-limiting.

A child is MASSIVELY - not insignificantly but ORDERS OF MAGNITUDE - at more risk from road traffic accidents as a pedestrian or passenger and that would be true even if NO ONE vaccinated. I've yet to see hoards of people clutching their pearls and screeching about the dangers of cars existing, or suggesting that parents should be stripped of their children for taking them on the motorway .

There are countless other examples beyond this. The phobia (yes, phobia - irrational fear) of the risk presented by MMR-preventable illnesses would be hilarious if it wasn't infuriating. More infuriating still is the gaggle of people bleating about "ignorance" whilst in the same breath suggesting that unvaccinated children are "unlikely to reach adulthood", when if that had any knowledge at all of these diseases or of the statistics surrounding them they would realise how ludicrously over the top statements like that are.

There are some horrendous diseases in the world. They're not the ones we routinely vaccinate against.

There are some groups that are at risk from minor vaccine-preventable illness. Otherwise healthy children and adults are not one of those groups.

Other often ignored points;

1) Vaccines are far from always effective.

2) Unlike natural immunity, vaccines can often wear off and if you go today and have your immunities tested, you will probably discover that you are not immune to many of the things you were vaccinated against as a child. You're one of the unvaccinated . Better stay in your house!

3) Almost all of the social stats surrounding vaccine effectiveness fail to present control variables or adjust for other factors (sanitation, antibiotics, modern healthcare) and are thus (deliberately?) botched.

4) Vaccines do carry risks. This has been medically verified. There is no evidence of a link with autism but there are plenty of other - again, medically and scientifically verified - vaccine injuries that can and do occur. This is frequently outright lied about for fear of more people then rejecting vaccines which may be a valid fear - but it presents a huge problem for me as I believe that in a civilised society it is ESSENTIAL that any medical procedure comes with informed consent and this is being happily pissed into the wind.


Again I'll punctuate this by saying I'm not anti-vax. I'm vaccinated, my children are vaccinated, if I had more children they would be vaccinated, and I would strongly encourage any other parent to have their children vaccinated, and in fact, I would encourage adults to have their immunities checked (because as mentioned before, if you think you're immune to all of the things you were vaccinated against as a child, you're probably living in blissful ignorance).

But it is a medical procedure and should be being discussed openly and properly in a balanced way. It should ALWAYS require respectful consent and the idea that we should start legally mandating people to have needles stuck in them at the government's whim is genuinely horrifying to me.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I'm not anti-vax (and I hate that I --always-- have to preface this opinion with that) but I completely 100% disagree with this dystopian nonsense . Social media is responsible for a lot of the anti-vax movement, yes that's probably true, but it's also responsible for the frankly bizarre levels of terror that surround vaccine-preventable illness, the majority of which are minor and self-limiting.

A child is MASSIVELY - not insignificantly but ORDERS OF MAGNITUDE - at more risk from road traffic accidents as a pedestrian or passenger and that would be true even if NO ONE vaccinated. I've yet to see hoards of people clutching their pearls and screeching about the dangers of cars existing, or suggesting that parents should be stripped of their children for taking them on the motorway .

There are countless other examples beyond this. The phobia (yes, phobia - irrational fear) of the risk presented by MMR-preventable illnesses would be hilarious if it wasn't infuriating. More infuriating still is the gaggle of people bleating about "ignorance" whilst in the same breath suggesting that unvaccinated children are "unlikely to reach adulthood", when if that had any knowledge at all of these diseases or of the statistics surrounding them they would realise how ludicrously over the top statements like that are.

There are some horrendous diseases in the world. They're not the ones we routinely vaccinate against.

There are some groups that are at risk from minor vaccine-preventable illness. Otherwise healthy children and adults are not one of those groups.

Other often ignored points;

1) Vaccines are far from always effective.

2) Unlike natural immunity, vaccines can often wear off and if you go today and have your immunities tested, you will probably discover that you are not immune to many of the things you were vaccinated against as a child. You're one of the unvaccinated . Better stay in your house!

3) Almost all of the social stats surrounding vaccine effectiveness fail to present control variables or adjust for other factors (sanitation, antibiotics, modern healthcare) and are thus (deliberately?) botched.

4) Vaccines do carry risks. This has been medically verified. There is no evidence of a link with autism but there are plenty of other - again, medically and scientifically verified - vaccine injuries that can and do occur. This is frequently outright lied about for fear of more people then rejecting vaccines which may be a valid fear - but it presents a huge problem for me as I believe that in a civilised society it is ESSENTIAL that any medical procedure comes with informed consent and this is being happily pissed into the wind.


Again I'll punctuate this by saying I'm not anti-vax. I'm vaccinated, my children are vaccinated, if I had more children they would be vaccinated, and I would strongly encourage any other parent to have their children vaccinated, and in fact, I would encourage adults to have their immunities checked (because as mentioned before, if you think you're immune to all of the things you were vaccinated against as a child, you're probably living in blissful ignorance).

But it is a medical procedure and should be being discussed openly and properly in a balanced way. It should ALWAYS require respectful consent and the idea that we should start legally mandating people to have needles stuck in them at the government's whim is genuinely horrifying to me.

This is basically the anti-vaxx equivalent of 'I'm not a racist but...'

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

This is basically the anti-vaxx equivalent of 'I'm not a racist but...'

It isn't, in simple terms all it is, is pointing out that "anti-anti-vax" is often as ridiculous and hysterical as anti-vax and calling for it to be discussed properly and without people screeching and hammering the panic button, and advocating for the government having control over medical procedures.

I think everyone should vaccinate. I will NEVER agree that anyone should be forced. Especially not when the mechanism used for doing so involves grossly exaggerating the medical facts.

But feel free to completely side-step any rational discussion of the issue by all means. The rest of the world does so what's one more.