[Tom4784]

I watched it on Monday, it was dreadful and utterly amateurish and the way they implemented Carrie Fisher was just disrespectful. They should have had more faith in their original direction since it's obvious they likely threw out their original plan for the third film in the trilogy when fans got pissy that women existed in The Last Jedi.

The sad attempts at fanservice moments were utterly cringeworthy too. It's just... remarkable how bad this film was.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

I watched it on Monday, it was dreadful and utterly amateurish and the way they implemented Carrie Fisher was just disrespectful.

I had forgotten about the "Bethesda style" generic dialogue scenes with Carrie Fisher!! I watched it in a mostly empty cinema with maybe 6 or 7 other people in the whole place - and I audibly laughed out loud. Really one of the best parts of the movie in terms of pure entertainment. I can't believe it got past quality control, I can only assume they were like "Oh god this is awful but we've already committed to it..."

[Oliver_W]

The Carrie Fisher stuff was borderline creepy.

It didn't even feel like Leia. I don't know how much sense this'll make, but Leia never just "stands and talks". She was always interacting with her surroundings and the other people in the scene.

Her death wasn't even explained. She's not old enough to die of old age without having been ill, and unless I've forgotten something she wasn't meant to be sick or anything?

The way the character told Rey "sorry, she's gone" sounded as if she'd just gone to another planet or something.

Originally Posted by Dezzy

when fans got pissy that women existed in The Last Jedi.

Is there any need for that? Admiral Holdo and Finn's woman were just crappy characters, their gender didn't come into it. People didn't care that Rey was female, they cared that her powers were accelerating faster than they should be as established in previous films. You can blame their gender if you like, but there's more substance to it. Everyone loves Leia, everyone likes Padme.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

The Carrie Fisher stuff was borderline creepy.

It didn't even feel like Leia. I don't know how much sense this'll make, but Leia never just "stands and talks". She was always interacting with her surroundings and the other people in the scene.

Her death wasn't even explained. She's not old enough to die of old age without having been ill, and unless I've forgotten something she wasn't meant to be sick or anything?

The way the character told Rey "sorry, she's gone" sounded as if she'd just gone to another planet or something.


Is there any need for that? Admiral Holdo and Finn's woman were just crappy characters, their gender didn't come into it. People didn't care that Rey was female, they cared that her powers were accelerating faster than they should be as established in previous films. You can blame their gender if you like, but there's more substance to it. Everyone loves Leia, everyone likes Padme.

At the end of the day, would those same fans have hated Rose and Holdo if they were male characters? It would be disingenuous to say they would have been. At most, they would have been treated as forgettable,certainly not hated enough to completely bully the actors that would have played them.

Don't forget that fan edit of the film that cut out female characters, that was downloaded a ridiculous amount of times. I remember the outcry about that film, to pretend that it wasn't about the female focus is just not true.

Geek culture is filled with such misogyny, I should know because I'm into all the geeky ****. It's the same crowd that gets upset whenever there's a gay person in a video game or a female character that isn't dressed up in an armoured bikini. Thesde people see such things as 'political' and act like politics shouldn't have a role in the things they love as they read and watch Game of Thrones, read,play and watch the Witcher, play their Call of Duties, Metal Gear Solid and JRPGs that end with the main characters overthrowing governments and religions and killing God itself.

They always call it politics and it's always bull****.

[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

At the end of the day, would those same fans have hated Rose and Holdo if they were male characters? It would be disingenuous to say they would have been. At most, they would have been treated as forgettable,certainly not hated enough to completely bully the actors that would have played them.

Actually I'm gonna come back on this a bit
Do you think people would be defending the characters if they were male?

Jake Lloyd's childhood was basically ruined by the backlash from his appearance in Phantom Menace, and I don't think that's ever talked about. Same with Jar Jar's actor, Ahmed Best, he actually considered suicide over the online abuse he was facing, and no-one said he should be left alone either.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

Jake Lloyd's childhood was basically ruined by the backlash from his appearance in Phantom Menace, and I don't think that's ever talked about. Same with Jar Jar's actor, Ahmed Best, he actually considered suicide over the online abuse he was facing, and no-one said he should be left alone either.

You do have a point when it comes to the SW franchise to be fair; the evidence that male actors wouldn't face backlash is... lacking. Hayden Christensen's career didn't come out of the prequel trilogy particularly well either, he was widely panned as Anakin.

The problem is that there's an almost cult-like extended SW fan base that goes back literally decades, and whenever that happens, you will see a lot of hatred mounting over perceived issues where it would be overlooked elsewhere. Star Wars especially is quite a divided fan base - half like the lore and extended universe and want to see those concepts and stories taken and run with in a more... modern... way (I personally fall into this category) - others are in it for the nostalgia and mainly looking to "recapture the originals". The results are mixed. I personally think the absolute worst of the new movies are when they come off as cheesy late 70's "family films" and I would VERY much welcome a darker, "15"-rated Star Wars story . For me, personally, you could have cut BOTH Rose and Finn out of The Last Jedi - the entire subplot . It was only there for the "ye olde Star Wars" factor IMO and was a waste of screen time . Finn was a good character in Episode VII but wasted after that.

This is probably why I much prefer SW video games to the movies... I like the lore a lot, I sort of intensely dislike the schlocky "let's recapture the original movies" stuff.

I also liked The Mandalorian and hope they continue in a similar direction with the other Disney+ stuff in future.

[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Hayden Christensen's career didn't come out of the prequel trilogy particularly well either, he was widely panned as Anakin.

Well, quite. Maybe it's because people don't like things (they think) suck, instead of hating either gender

I don't know or care if Rey is a "Mary Sue", I literally don't have an opinion either way. I do think her character is garbage because like I said before, her healing powers make Vader's fall to the dark side pointless, and she's waay overpowered compared to what had been established.

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

half like the lore and extended universe and want to see those concepts and stories taken and run with in a more... modern... way (I personally fall into this category)

I wonder what you mean by modern?

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

I wonder what you mean by modern?

The quality of Sci-fi blockbusters increased dramatically from the mid 80's onwards (granted, this is in part THANKS to Star Wars) and IMO the attempts to recapture the "feel" of the original trilogy results in something that's a bit too cheesy / "family fun" / twee for my liking. A few too many "high fives all round, gang!" moments. I dunno how to describe it. A bit "white picket fence"?

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

I do think her character is garbage because like I said before, her healing powers make Vader's fall to the dark side pointless, and she's waay overpowered compared to what had been established.

I agree with that, her ability as a Jedi makes no sense, jumps the shark massively. She has abilities comparable to Qui-Gon/Obi-Wan/Anakin in the prequel trilogy... who were trained for decades, from childhood, by other high-level Jedi. She should be more like Luke in the OG trilogy - i.e. an utterly pish Jedi in comparison to the "legendary" pre-Empire Jedi. She was fine in the first film and even the 2nd but in this one her abilities took a dramatic leap forward that was purely for plot convenience.