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Serious Debates & News Debate and discussion about political, moral, philosophical, celebrity and news topics. |
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18-09-2020, 06:55 AM | #76 | ||
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Meh, vile TERF hag Ammi, I won't waste one second of my time reading her toxic transphobia. Boooo, etc.
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18-09-2020, 07:22 AM | #77 | |||
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Quand il pleut, il pleut
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...well, comments like that will never get anyone out of that ‘battleground’ and toward that starting point of discussion, TS, and you know it/..be better...and I know that you know and have understanding of the ‘other side‘ of ‘both sides now’ so who knows if you’ve felt those very words/thoughts yourself but they only apply to a minority, I would say...any thoughts/concerns etc, expressed here...come from very genuine places of feeling let down./...while she’s explaining her perspective.../..some are trying to give theirs in the same way...
...anyways, internet discussions tend to be ‘instant response’ by nature and not allowing for thought time ...so it’s not a place/way that I tend to discuss many things that I like to give thought to when there are a most definite ‘both sides now’ to... |
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18-09-2020, 07:39 AM | #78 | ||
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I have abundant time for anyone who is of course Ammi, my flippant comment above was to illustrate that far too many people are happy to just tweet or post something quick n snappy and will never bother to give any sort of reasoning (if they have it in the first place).
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18-09-2020, 07:42 AM | #79 | |||
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Senior Member
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It takes me longer to correct all the spelling and grammar errors than it does to type out the post half the time Last edited by parmnion; 18-09-2020 at 07:43 AM. |
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18-09-2020, 07:55 AM | #80 | |||
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Quand il pleut, il pleut
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Quote:
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18-09-2020, 11:27 AM | #81 | |||
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I Love my brick
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I think most people will have read that by JK Rowling Ammi, this is what they say is her being transphobic, she posted that after the people who menstruate tweet
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18-09-2020, 11:31 AM | #82 | |||
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POW! BLAM!
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I'm yet to see why people take such offense to JKR - women are the only people who can menstrate #saytheirname
Moreover, I find the term TERF a bit ... pointless? Like, why would feminism include male people, it's meant to be about females expecting feminism to include males is like expecting a support group for eunuchs to help women, as they don't have balls. Last edited by Oliver_W; 18-09-2020 at 12:06 PM. |
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18-09-2020, 11:39 AM | #83 | |||
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I Love my brick
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And after she wrote that essay her abusive ex was in the paper saying "he's not sorry for hitting JK Rowling" He was so emboldened by her "cancellation" suddenly domestic abuse is a-ok....
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Spoiler: Last edited by Niamh.; 18-09-2020 at 11:40 AM. |
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18-09-2020, 11:42 AM | #84 | |||
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You know my methods
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There is a lot of "i am going to criticise a major celeb and make myself feel important..and because there are lots doing it i feel safe from backlash"
"also she is old and white so i see her as fair game in the current climate" |
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18-09-2020, 11:52 AM | #85 | |||
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And that story was rightly universally condemned, even by those horrible trans people and activists people say are mean to her
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Last edited by Liam-; 18-09-2020 at 11:56 AM. |
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18-09-2020, 11:56 AM | #86 | |||
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I Love my brick
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Horrible trans people? I hope you're not trying to put words in my mouth there Liam.
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Spoiler: Last edited by Niamh.; 18-09-2020 at 11:58 AM. |
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18-09-2020, 12:05 PM | #87 | ||
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Obviously aware that this is an extreme minority but I don't think it's helpful to pretend that those extreme minorities don't exist, or to put up blinkers to their comments and pretend they didn't happen. |
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18-09-2020, 12:45 PM | #88 | |||
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Senior Member
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18-09-2020, 12:47 PM | #89 | |||
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Senior Member
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18-09-2020, 12:51 PM | #90 | |||
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I Love my brick
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Quote:
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Spoiler: Last edited by Niamh.; 18-09-2020 at 12:52 PM. |
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18-09-2020, 12:55 PM | #91 | |||
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Like I don’t understand how anyone expects trans people to compromise or have nuanced discussion about any of these issues when a majority of people aren’t even willing to validate their gender identity and lived experience... (ie. jk Rowling claiming in her essay that trans people don’t experience oppression based on their identity, or people on this forum claiming hormones and puberty blockers are really easy to get a hold of)
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18-09-2020, 01:00 PM | #92 | ||
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Activists want trans people to be recognised by completely eliminating the biological basis of sex and invalidating the entire point of "transitioning". The entire cause is a big mass of contradictions, misogyny and disregard for reality. I feel sorry for all of the transpeople who will be negatively affected by the radical group's appalling behaviour and morals. |
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18-09-2020, 01:01 PM | #93 | ||
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Senior Member
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Last edited by Marsh.; 18-09-2020 at 01:02 PM. |
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18-09-2020, 01:01 PM | #94 | ||
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I can accept the premise that transwomen are a subset category of the larger group "women". I just have to be honest though and say that the idea that there is no distinction between biologically-female women and transwomen is illogical, unscientific and (to be a little more harsh) wishful thinking. I think feminism can certainly encompass transwomen, but that has to be in a form that acknowledges and addresses that there are differences, and the needs and concerns of all women. Sometimes it feels like the available options are "pretend that there isn't a difference and there's no valid issue in terms of acknowledging different wants and needs", or "Be a TERF!".
I'm trying really hard to come up with a good way to describe what my issue is with that, but eehat I keep coming back to is that it's just immature. An immature, black and white, emotion-driven mindset that I can have sympathy for but don't think has any place in a constructive conversation. |
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18-09-2020, 01:04 PM | #95 | |||
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I Love my brick
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Quote:
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Spoiler: Last edited by Niamh.; 18-09-2020 at 01:25 PM. |
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18-09-2020, 01:05 PM | #96 | ||
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18-09-2020, 01:11 PM | #97 | ||
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A big portion of her essay literally goes into detail about how she has been a big supporter of the LGBT community due to the shared vulnerability in facing violence from men. To now try to twist that into her saying the opposite is, again, ignoring the facts.
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18-09-2020, 01:12 PM | #98 | |||
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POW! BLAM!
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Transwomen are transwomen, and are male.
How many sex-based issues faced by women also apply to transwomen? Not single wex spaces, because transwomen using female spaces goes against it being a single sex space; not abortion rights, because transwomen can't get pregnant; not to be harsh but in most cases transwomen probably don't need to worry about sexual harrassment; issues relating to what is sometimes labelled as the "wage gap" might apply - I can see bigoted employers passing them up for promotions or pay risew, bjt not for the same reasons as females. Issues faced by transwomen are important issues, but they're not femimist issues. |
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18-09-2020, 01:15 PM | #99 | ||
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Banned
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JK got herself into the position she's in by doubling down when she got criticism from a minority until she alienated more and more people, and even then it hasn't even affected her since her book sales are up. It's pretty much the same deal when Piers Morgan was up on his high horse about gender, it never affected him either. As I said before, she had some good points to begin with, I have concerns about self-IDing and gender specific spaces for people who have yet transitioned but she's taking it further than that in response to some initial criticism she had to begin with. When you let criticism warp your message, what you're trying to say gets lost. |
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18-09-2020, 01:19 PM | #100 | |||
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People who agree with JK demand to be listened to and respected for their opinions, in the same breath as saying anyone who disagrees is either sexist, too emotional, doesn’t know what they’re talking about, or is a man so has no right, if a conversation is actually genuinely wanted, then it needs to go both ways, ‘we have to discuss it no matter how offensive it might be’ ‘umm, I think you’re offensive so I’m going to dismiss everything you say’
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Last edited by Liam-; 18-09-2020 at 01:20 PM. |
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