Notices

Serious Debates & News Debate and discussion about political, moral, philosophical, celebrity and news topics.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 21-01-2021, 06:52 PM #101
Captain.Remy Captain.Remy is offline
Nah
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: France.
Posts: 27,913


Captain.Remy Captain.Remy is offline
Nah
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: France.
Posts: 27,913


Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Novo View Post
all you are doing is having a slash, if another guy is having a slash right next you who cares, just relieved to get it out the system aren't you
The dreaded Middle Urinal Dilemma is no joke to some
Indeed, just get it out the system and get out of there
__________________
Captain.Remy is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 21-01-2021, 06:53 PM #102
Niamh.'s Avatar
Niamh. Niamh. is offline
I Love my brick
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Ireland-The peoples Republic of Cork!
Posts: 142,140

Favourites (more):
BB19: Cian
IAC2018: Rita Simons


Niamh. Niamh. is offline
I Love my brick
Niamh.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Ireland-The peoples Republic of Cork!
Posts: 142,140

Favourites (more):
BB19: Cian
IAC2018: Rita Simons


Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Novo View Post
ah yes that awful FENIAN boxer isn't it









just kidding x
Only the greatest female boxer there is, added bonus that she's also Irish
__________________

Spoiler:

Quote:
Originally Posted by GiRTh View Post
You compare Jim Davidson to Nelson Mandela?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesus. View Post
I know, how stupid? He's more like Gandhi.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Isaiah 7:14 View Post



Katie Hopkins reveals epilepsy made her suicidal - and says she identifies as a MAN
Quote:
Originally Posted by Livia View Post
Just because she is a giant cock, doesn't make her a man.

Last edited by Niamh.; 22-01-2021 at 11:00 AM.
Niamh. is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 21-01-2021, 06:56 PM #103
Toy Soldier Toy Soldier is offline
-
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 30,350


Toy Soldier Toy Soldier is offline
-
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 30,350


Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oliver_W View Post
Transwomen are male, women are female - "even" women with intersex conditions, funnily enough.

Sex isn't assigned at birth; it's acknowledged or recorded at birth, but biological realities can't be assigned.
Taking a purely scientific/logical standpoint this is true but I also understand why it's difficult for transgender people.

Sex is a physical descriptor, gender is a sociological construct, and on a scientific level both are totally separate and don't even need to conflict - all it takes to accept transgenderism is to accept that a woman (gender) can be male (biology) and vice versa, but a male cannot become female (biologically). Again though, I appreciate that this is a very sensitive and difficult reality for transpeople.

Funnily enough it would actually be a path to solving the sports problem; just tier the sports leagues as male and female rather than men and women. Though then you do run into a whole host of other problems when it comes to hormone replacement (transmen need a lot of HRT that is banned in female sorts for obvious reasons, and transwomen who have been taking female hormones will, frankly, very quickly become unable to compete with men, including transmen).
Toy Soldier is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 21-01-2021, 06:58 PM #104
Toy Soldier Toy Soldier is offline
-
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 30,350


Toy Soldier Toy Soldier is offline
-
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 30,350


Default

On the sports topic I also think it's just a generally ****ty situation for women to be in - imagine having to have the vulnerability to say "please don't come into our sport, we can't physically compete with biological males" - which must be a ****ing hard thing to admit in the first place - only to be shut down and told that you're wrong and it's a level playing field .

Last edited by Toy Soldier; 21-01-2021 at 06:59 PM.
Toy Soldier is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 21-01-2021, 06:59 PM #105
GoldHeart's Avatar
GoldHeart GoldHeart is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 24,647

Favourites (more):
BB2023: Trish
The Circle 2019: Georgina


GoldHeart GoldHeart is offline
Senior Member
GoldHeart's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 24,647

Favourites (more):
BB2023: Trish
The Circle 2019: Georgina


Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Novo View Post
all you are doing is having a slash, if another guy is having a slash right next you who cares, just relieved to get it out the system aren't you
Well I'd still use a private cubicle if I was a man.
__________________
GoldHeart is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 21-01-2021, 07:00 PM #106
Captain.Remy Captain.Remy is offline
Nah
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: France.
Posts: 27,913


Captain.Remy Captain.Remy is offline
Nah
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: France.
Posts: 27,913


Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toy Soldier View Post
I have to wonder - do people who are all for abandoning single-sex spaces aware of what the actual fear is? It's not a fear that genuine transwomen are going to start attacking people at random... it's a fear that men will use it as a loophole to access those spaces disingenuously and with nefarious intent.

As for the argument that "that won't happen" - all I can really say there is that anyone who genuinely believes it won't happen doesn't know the half of this world and probably doesn't want to. It's not a "maybe"... it -will- happen. That's not a judgment on genuine transwomen at all, it's a judgement on men, and an acceptance that there are a seriously sickening number of men out there who will absolutely exploit an opportunity to abuse and harm women. Hard realities but there it is.
I think some feel like transmen and transwomen will attack them any shape or form (sexual attacks etc), specifically transwoman.

That's why the best public toilets have full-sized doors and a sink in the cubicle, so you can do what you need to do in privacy and go about your day.
Now that doesn't resolve the issue, but it falls back to how you educate your children, men (that are seen as the biggest danger in this context) and women on how to behave and act right. I feel like the more we have of them, the more people will get used to it and eventually accept them.
__________________

Last edited by Captain.Remy; 21-01-2021 at 07:04 PM.
Captain.Remy is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 21-01-2021, 07:00 PM #107
Toy Soldier Toy Soldier is offline
-
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 30,350


Toy Soldier Toy Soldier is offline
-
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 30,350


Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldHeart View Post
Well I'd still use a private cubicle if I was a man.
I can't pee in front of people so I have to . It's not even a "don't want people to see my peener" thing - I could go and stand at a urinal with my knob out all day and not be bothered - but I still won't be able to piss .
Toy Soldier is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 21-01-2021, 07:01 PM #108
Niamh.'s Avatar
Niamh. Niamh. is offline
I Love my brick
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Ireland-The peoples Republic of Cork!
Posts: 142,140

Favourites (more):
BB19: Cian
IAC2018: Rita Simons


Niamh. Niamh. is offline
I Love my brick
Niamh.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Ireland-The peoples Republic of Cork!
Posts: 142,140

Favourites (more):
BB19: Cian
IAC2018: Rita Simons


Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toy Soldier View Post
On the sports topic I also think it's just a generally ****ty situation for women to be in - imagine having to have the vulnerability to say "please don't come into our sport, we can't physically compete with biological males" - which must be a ****ing hard thing to admit in the first place - only to be shut down and told that you're wrong and it's a level playing field .
It really is, womens sports struggle to be taken seriously as it is
__________________

Spoiler:

Quote:
Originally Posted by GiRTh View Post
You compare Jim Davidson to Nelson Mandela?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesus. View Post
I know, how stupid? He's more like Gandhi.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Isaiah 7:14 View Post



Katie Hopkins reveals epilepsy made her suicidal - and says she identifies as a MAN
Quote:
Originally Posted by Livia View Post
Just because she is a giant cock, doesn't make her a man.
Niamh. is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 21-01-2021, 07:04 PM #109
Novo's Avatar
Novo Novo is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: England
Posts: 58,822

Favourites (more):
CBB20: Chad Johnson
BB14: Dexter


Novo Novo is offline
Senior Member
Novo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: England
Posts: 58,822

Favourites (more):
CBB20: Chad Johnson
BB14: Dexter


Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toy Soldier View Post
On the sports topic I also think it's just a generally ****ty situation for women to be in - imagine having to have the vulnerability to say "please don't come into our sport, we can't physically compete with men" - which must be a ****ing hard thing to admit in the first place - only to be shut down and told that you're wrong and it's a level playing field .
spot on, times in the past i use to laugh about 15 year old boys school kids beating womens professional teams but its just a totally different playing field and doesn't make them any less talented they still have to work just as hard to get where they are, the difference really is huge when it comes to have the sports are played, tactics, stamina, strength etc
__________________


"She was left for dead on the sands of Tatooine, as was I. But fate sometimes steps in to rescue the wretched."
Novo is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 21-01-2021, 07:06 PM #110
Alf's Avatar
Alf Alf is offline
Sod orf
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Wapping
Posts: 34,356


Alf Alf is offline
Sod orf
Alf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Wapping
Posts: 34,356


Default

One day in fake office and the Illegitimate President has already got Tibb members at each others throats.

Strap in, this will be a bumpy ride.
Alf is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 21-01-2021, 07:09 PM #111
Captain.Remy Captain.Remy is offline
Nah
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: France.
Posts: 27,913


Captain.Remy Captain.Remy is offline
Nah
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: France.
Posts: 27,913


Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alf View Post
One day in fake office and the Illegitimate President has already got Tibb members at each others throats.

Strap in, this will be a bumpy ride.
As if people weren't at each others throats when Trump was in office.
Nobody said everything would be clear and peaceful when Biden is elected. That would be very naive.
__________________
Captain.Remy is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 21-01-2021, 07:16 PM #112
Vicky. Vicky. is offline
0_o
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 64,533


Vicky. Vicky. is offline
0_o
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 64,533


Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toy Soldier View Post

Funnily enough it would actually be a path to solving the sports problem; just tier the sports leagues as male and female rather than men and women. Though then you do run into a whole host of other problems when it comes to hormone replacement (transmen need a lot of HRT that is banned in female sorts for obvious reasons, and transwomen who have been taking female hormones will, frankly, very quickly become unable to compete with men, including transmen).
Its already male and female though in reality, so that doesn't need to be changed. Its just semantics to say its split by 'gender' because sometimes men and women is used instead. I actually don't see any situation where a 'gender' segregation would ever be needed? Given gender is a very personal thing, and totally internal also.

Honestly, its not the best answer, but all I can think of is a seperate 'league' or whatever for people who are trans. I believe its generally accepted that transwomen would still have an advantage over transmen, because the advantage is caused by male puberty more than the actual current levels of hormones, but that would be a bit more of an even playing field. Which is..well one of the reasons its unfair to have transwomen competing with women even if they lower testosterone to 0. There could be issues with takeup, not many trans athletes, but given the amount of transwomen seemingly wanting into female sports these days, it seems there is definitely some demand, and with proper advertisement or whatever, it could take off. I would actually watch it but maybe not for the right 'reasons' as I would be intruiged to see if the transmen did actually do well against transwomen. As its the whole puberty v testosterone argument in action really. Could get more studies from that option too, and maybe reevaluate options in the future based on results. Non binary people might feel more comfortable with this option also, rather than having to put themselves in male or female, though of course, some do also acknowledge their sex so might be fine in the 'binary' categories, but the option would be there for them anyway. (mind, even with that there could be potential issues. As a non binary male person who is not on medication, would absolutely wipe out everyone else generally speaking)

Besides that, the answer is to have the female category. And change the male one to 'open'. In reality, no man will be disadvataged by a transwoman, or a transman competing with him. But it would mean they still can compete. I think men might find that unfair though, even though its not 'actually unfair' if that makes sense. It would sound unfair if only females got their own sport, though men competing with transwomen and transmen, are not going to be at any disadvantage. With an open category, the few women who think 'males do not have a sporting advantage, the females should just work harder!' and such would also get their chance to prove this, and race against men. They can train themselves up as much as they like and take their chances.

Theres no answer that would please everyone, and thats part of the problem. But the answer certainly is NOT what current activists (and stonewall) are shouting for right now, which is to make female sport unfair/unsafe for females, in order to try and make another group happy, when there is loads of evidence that it IS unsafe and unfair, its not just an opinion. Its fact. I mean, even without all the recent studies and such that prove what most already knew, why did we have segrgeated sport to start with, if there are not any differences?

Said I wouldn't post anymore, however, the thread seems relatively calm now compared to how others have gone, and sport has been something I have been looking into for a while. And even after that while, the above is all I can think of to 'even the playing field' so to speak. It IS a difficult convo. I just really despise how the default option always seems to be the one that disadvantages women. And then ontop of this, women are told to shut up, stop being bigoted and accept it else they are big meanies. This is the case regardless of how said woman puts her point across. Oddly, men seem able to talk on this topic without being attacked, even when the men talking are actually using transphobic language and such. Its..odd to see.

(Not saying the men on here are using transphobic language. Speaking more generally here. Women are attacked for mentioning anything on the topic. Men can literally use transphobic slurs and be largely ignored)
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicky91 View Post
always cook meals, i did have chinese takeaways the year before the corona **** happened
but now not into takeaways anymore
Quote:
Originally Posted by Niamh. View Post
Did you get them delivered from Wuhan?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toy Soldier View Post
I would just like to take a second to congratulate Vicky, for creating the first Tibb post that needed chapters and a bibliography.

Last edited by Vicky.; 21-01-2021 at 07:24 PM.
Vicky. is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 21-01-2021, 07:20 PM #113
Vicky. Vicky. is offline
0_o
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 64,533


Vicky. Vicky. is offline
0_o
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 64,533


Default

I also ****ing hate the idea of urinals, though most men seem ok with it. As a side note.

And single loos are definitely the best idea.

Loos are the least of the issues in reality though, and by far the easiest one to 'solve'. Its prisons and such, where the real problems lie.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicky91 View Post
always cook meals, i did have chinese takeaways the year before the corona **** happened
but now not into takeaways anymore
Quote:
Originally Posted by Niamh. View Post
Did you get them delivered from Wuhan?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toy Soldier View Post
I would just like to take a second to congratulate Vicky, for creating the first Tibb post that needed chapters and a bibliography.
Vicky. is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 21-01-2021, 07:23 PM #114
GoldHeart's Avatar
GoldHeart GoldHeart is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 24,647

Favourites (more):
BB2023: Trish
The Circle 2019: Georgina


GoldHeart GoldHeart is offline
Senior Member
GoldHeart's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 24,647

Favourites (more):
BB2023: Trish
The Circle 2019: Georgina


Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toy Soldier View Post
I can't pee in front of people so I have to . It's not even a "don't want people to see my peener" thing - I could go and stand at a urinal with my knob out all day and not be bothered - but I still won't be able to piss .
It's like when some men go in bushes without a care if there's no loo, again as a woman I can't do that and I wouldn't want to anyway
__________________
GoldHeart is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 21-01-2021, 07:26 PM #115
LeatherTrumpet's Avatar
LeatherTrumpet LeatherTrumpet is offline
You know my methods
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 92,787


LeatherTrumpet LeatherTrumpet is offline
You know my methods
LeatherTrumpet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 92,787


Default

At football matches with grounds over say 40k - you have to queue 4 deep for a piss and the bogs are full shoulder to shoulder. there are maybe 3 cubicles and that is for folk doing coke only.

space/cash is the key factor when installing toilets so anyone hoping for a change soon is pissing in the wind

its a money thing

exclusively

its nothing to do with anything else
LeatherTrumpet is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 21-01-2021, 07:33 PM #116
Captain.Remy Captain.Remy is offline
Nah
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: France.
Posts: 27,913


Captain.Remy Captain.Remy is offline
Nah
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: France.
Posts: 27,913


Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vicky. View Post
I just really despise how the default option always seems to be the one that disadvantages women. And then ontop of this, women are told to shut up, stop being bigoted and accept it else they are big meanies. This is the case regardless of how said woman puts her point across. Oddly, men seem able to talk on this topic without being attacked, even when the men talking are actually using transphobic language and such. Its..odd to see.

(Not saying the men on here are using transphobic language. Speaking more generally here. Women are attacked for mentioning anything on the topic. Men can literally use transphobic slurs and be largely ignored)
That's the saddest part of it, and a lot of people use the womens rights vs trans rights "war" to completely invalidate both parties and make them look terrible. I once heard someone say "well, women like to hate each other anyway" in a discussion about feminists (not here on TIBB)

And that's for any topic really, when you see that for example in some countries only men are deciding for women or are part of meetings about abortion and womens rights. It's...so wrong.
__________________
Captain.Remy is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 21-01-2021, 07:33 PM #117
Elliot's Avatar
Elliot Elliot is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Posts: 7,608

Favourites (more):
BB2023: Yinrun
Love Island 5: Amber
Elliot Elliot is offline
Senior Member
Elliot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Posts: 7,608

Favourites (more):
BB2023: Yinrun
Love Island 5: Amber
Default

Every other week there’s an anti trans row on here give it a ****ing break

Last edited by Elliot; 21-01-2021 at 07:33 PM.
Elliot is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 21-01-2021, 07:36 PM #118
Josy's Avatar
Josy Josy is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 59,919


Josy Josy is offline
Senior Member
Josy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 59,919


Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elliot View Post
Every other week there’s an anti trans row on here give it a ****ing break
Or you can just leave the thread and leave people that wish to debate the topic to it? Maybe serious debates isnt the place for you if certain threads upset you.
Josy is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 21-01-2021, 07:41 PM #119
GoldHeart's Avatar
GoldHeart GoldHeart is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 24,647

Favourites (more):
BB2023: Trish
The Circle 2019: Georgina


GoldHeart GoldHeart is offline
Senior Member
GoldHeart's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 24,647

Favourites (more):
BB2023: Trish
The Circle 2019: Georgina


Default

And mother's usually take their little boys into women's toilet with them for safety, a father can't do that with his daughter though if he's a single dad .
__________________
GoldHeart is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 21-01-2021, 07:42 PM #120
Oliver_W's Avatar
Oliver_W Oliver_W is offline
POW! BLAM!
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Bill's Secret Garden
Posts: 15,939

Favourites (more):
BBCanada 8: Chris
Apprentice 2019: Lottie


Oliver_W Oliver_W is offline
POW! BLAM!
Oliver_W's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Bill's Secret Garden
Posts: 15,939

Favourites (more):
BBCanada 8: Chris
Apprentice 2019: Lottie


Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elliot View Post
Every other week there’s an anti trans row on here give it a ****ing break
If the threads were saying "eww transwomen are icky" you might have a point. But in this case, it's relating to Joe Biden putting trans rights before women's rights, so it's current and relevant.
__________________


Oliver_W is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 21-01-2021, 07:42 PM #121
Tom4784 Tom4784 is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 45,095
Tom4784 Tom4784 is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 45,095
Default

The article is poorly written, that's my first thought since it's pushing an agenda.

My second thought is that it's a lot of hysteria over nothing and that things will be done with common sense in mind.
Tom4784 is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 21-01-2021, 07:47 PM #122
Niamh.'s Avatar
Niamh. Niamh. is offline
I Love my brick
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Ireland-The peoples Republic of Cork!
Posts: 142,140

Favourites (more):
BB19: Cian
IAC2018: Rita Simons


Niamh. Niamh. is offline
I Love my brick
Niamh.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Ireland-The peoples Republic of Cork!
Posts: 142,140

Favourites (more):
BB19: Cian
IAC2018: Rita Simons


Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Novo View Post
spot on, times in the past i use to laugh about 15 year old boys school kids beating womens professional teams but its just a totally different playing field and doesn't make them any less talented they still have to work just as hard to get where they are, the difference really is huge when it comes to have the sports are played, tactics, stamina, strength etc
I guess a comparison could be a feather weight to a heavy weight boxer, they both put in equal work and train hard but making them fight eachother still wouldn't be fair
__________________

Spoiler:

Quote:
Originally Posted by GiRTh View Post
You compare Jim Davidson to Nelson Mandela?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesus. View Post
I know, how stupid? He's more like Gandhi.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Isaiah 7:14 View Post



Katie Hopkins reveals epilepsy made her suicidal - and says she identifies as a MAN
Quote:
Originally Posted by Livia View Post
Just because she is a giant cock, doesn't make her a man.
Niamh. is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 21-01-2021, 07:53 PM #123
Vicky. Vicky. is offline
0_o
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 64,533


Vicky. Vicky. is offline
0_o
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 64,533


Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain.Remy View Post
That's the saddest part of it, and a lot of people use the womens rights vs trans rights "war" to completely invalidate both parties and make them look terrible. I once heard someone say "well, women like to hate each other anyway" in a discussion about feminists (not here on TIBB)

And that's for any topic really, when you see that for example in some countries only men are deciding for women or are part of meetings about abortion and womens rights. It's...so wrong.
Well yeah. But you have also spent a fair amount of time on here saying that women are worrying for nothing? Which is kind of..the same thing to me, though not quite on the same level as men making the official decisions?

The current asks of transactivists (note I use activists, as transpeople do not seem to be as extreme in their misogyny) absolutely DO steamroll over womens current sex based rights. There is no doubt about it.

It is possible, to find solutions to advance trans rights. Without requiring women to lose their current rights. Just the current demands do not do this, they actively do take away the rights of female people. And this is why a lot of women are fighting back. Its not about attacking 'trans rights'. Its fighting to retain our existing rights, and saying we are bigoted for doing that, is..not good really.

As you seem quite adamant that current demandsdo not actually affect female people at all ad instead just help transpeople, can you explain to me how..as prisons are the easiest issue for people to see (though I always thought this would be sports)..the following does not remove the rights of female people, to be incarcerated with other female people.

A male person who is a transwoman (a male woman, when using both gender and sex I guess) is put in jail for rape. The current rules, and what trasactivists pushed for, say that this male woman, can be sent to the female estate. As their 'gender identity' is 'woman'. Even though prisons are split by sex, not gender. This move is automatic if the person has a 'gender recognition certificate' which means they have 'legally changed sex' (which is a mass of issues in itself) but even if they have not done this, they can be considered for a move to the female estate.

How does that not effect the rights of female people?

This is not a hypothetical. Its happening. And has already had the logical conclusion also. A 'male woman' in female prison, sexually assaulting, or/and raping the female prisoners. When this happens, sometimes the 'male woman' is sent to a different female prison as a 'solution'. Sometimes they are then moved to somewhere in the male estate, but by that point, there has already been victims that should never have been victims.

A situation that should, IMO never even be a possibility.

Acnowledging that this is a HUGE problem, does not mean I think all transwomen are rapists. It does mean that I think men will abuse such a system, and men already have.

And honestly, even one male person in one female prison is an issue for me. I know some will write off a certain amount of injured women as collateral damage, but I won't. And such people can never say how many women need to be harmed for the problem to be acnowledged either oddly enough.

Like..there are loads of these instances currently. And I feel, just a proper look at the topic could sort things for both transpeople and female people. Yes, a 'genuine' transwoman (meaning someone with dysphoria, not a random man trying to abuse this) might be in danger in the male estate. The answer to that though is not to use women as human shields, and say that any male who might be at risk (or 'says he is a woman') should become the female peoples problem to sort? The answer, surely, is to have...trans wings, or something like that. So yes, sex, and how it matters is acknowledged. But also, gender is acknowledged, along with general safety of different groups of people. And more people as a result are kept safe. The current way, men have a very easy loophole to transfer to female prisons (and its well known how awful mens prisons are, so in a way you cant blame a lot of them for trying, thats before even getting into the ones wanting to move to abuse the women) which simply results in, female people being massively more at risk, in a place where they absolutely cannot escape.

I also tend to think when the 'but transwomen are at risk in male prisons' somes up, think of the other groups who would be more at risk in a male prison, smaller males, disabled males, gay males, and so on. Should we also open up female prisons to those people as they are more at risk? Or is the answer, lowering the risk for those people in any way we can, instead of putting MORE people at risk instead?

Much thought is needed. The topic is not one that can be easily 'solved'. But current solutions, put women at risk. Not necessarily from transwomen, but from men. And anyone saying men would never abuse such a loophole is kidding themselves tbh. Some men train for years to be priests or teachers, in order to access victims. To claim to have a 'woman gender identity' is nothing to such people. Also, the proportion of sex offenders in prison claiming to be transwomen is hugely disproportional to the amount of sex offenders in the general male population. Which is something that should concern everyone tbh. I don't think transwomen are more likely to be sex offenders, however, something is happening. The logical conclusion is that male sex offenders are saying they are transwomen, to get a transfer. Which is unsurprising while the option exists.

The answer needs to keep transwomen safe, but also not make women unsafe. The current answer, places women in danger. And quite obviously, removes their current sex based rights.

This has probably gone on for longer than intended. This is because..well its a difficult topic with many areas that need looked at. Not simply a 'women, nothing is affecting you really, just shut up and think of the transpeople' like some seem to think it is. Nor is it a 'well tranwomen are male, just shove them in male prison if they are abused, tough' situation. An answer, needs to take both groups into account. The current answer, only considers transwomen.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicky91 View Post
always cook meals, i did have chinese takeaways the year before the corona **** happened
but now not into takeaways anymore
Quote:
Originally Posted by Niamh. View Post
Did you get them delivered from Wuhan?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toy Soldier View Post
I would just like to take a second to congratulate Vicky, for creating the first Tibb post that needed chapters and a bibliography.

Last edited by Vicky.; 21-01-2021 at 07:58 PM.
Vicky. is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 21-01-2021, 07:55 PM #124
Niamh.'s Avatar
Niamh. Niamh. is offline
I Love my brick
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Ireland-The peoples Republic of Cork!
Posts: 142,140

Favourites (more):
BB19: Cian
IAC2018: Rita Simons


Niamh. Niamh. is offline
I Love my brick
Niamh.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Ireland-The peoples Republic of Cork!
Posts: 142,140

Favourites (more):
BB19: Cian
IAC2018: Rita Simons


Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dezzy View Post
The article is poorly written, that's my first thought since it's pushing an agenda.



My second thought is that it's a lot of hysteria over nothing and that things will be done with common sense in mind.
I do hope so Dezzy, I really think that's all most people want
__________________

Spoiler:

Quote:
Originally Posted by GiRTh View Post
You compare Jim Davidson to Nelson Mandela?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesus. View Post
I know, how stupid? He's more like Gandhi.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Isaiah 7:14 View Post



Katie Hopkins reveals epilepsy made her suicidal - and says she identifies as a MAN
Quote:
Originally Posted by Livia View Post
Just because she is a giant cock, doesn't make her a man.
Niamh. is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 21-01-2021, 07:57 PM #125
GoldHeart's Avatar
GoldHeart GoldHeart is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 24,647

Favourites (more):
BB2023: Trish
The Circle 2019: Georgina


GoldHeart GoldHeart is offline
Senior Member
GoldHeart's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 24,647

Favourites (more):
BB2023: Trish
The Circle 2019: Georgina


Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Niamh. View Post
I do hope so Dezzy, I really think that's all most people want
Yeah true , I think the problem aswell is the Media likes to run with a story aswell and likes to make people look bad .

And not all trans women want to compete in women's sports ,but we're led to believe they do .
__________________
GoldHeart is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Reply

Bookmark/share this topic

Tags
debbie, hayton

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 08:18 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
 

About Us ThisisBigBrother.com

"Big Brother and UK Television Forum. Est. 2001"

 

© 2023
no new posts