[user104658]

Originally Posted by Alf

Come on lad, wake up, these people ran a 3 year fake Russia story, non-stop every day. They held a state funeral for a criminal who wouldn't have even died if he'd have just got in a the Police car. They say statements like "White supremecy is the biggest danger to our country" that one came from Mr Don Lemon.
They've gone on non stop about January 6th being an insurrection and still go on about it to this day, it's now December, when not person has been charged for an insurrection.

All I can say Alf is that the truth almost always lies somewhere in the middle ground - and it often seems that you've been lead out towards the opposite extreme by the things you've watched/read.

[Alf]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

All I can say Alf is that the truth almost always lies somewhere in the middle ground - and it often seems that you've been lead out towards the opposite extreme by the things you've watched/read.

No, I just see with my own eyes what's happening. Like those things I just mentioned. You was even joining in with them pushing the big Russia lie for 3 years on this here forum. And now it's a proven made up story, you have nothing else to say on the matter.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Alf

You was even joining in with them pushing the big Russia lie for 3 years on this here forum. And now it's a proven made up story, you have nothing else to say on the matter.

Where to even start unpacking that one. Trump (and associates) have several traceable links to Russian officials. Russian interference in US and other Western politics is 100% something that happens - I watched the Russian Twitter bots in action with my own eyes during the 2020 US election night - it was fascinating (and worrying).

There was an investigation into whether or not Trump was directly involved with Russian interference geared towards helping him win. They could not prove that there was any direct, knowing involvement from the Trump camp. That is all that happened.

1) This does not mean it was "proven to be made up" - it means that there wasn't enough evidence to continue the investigation.

2) This does not mean that Russia didn't interfere - it's widely accepted that they did (and do) try to influence all Western voting events - or that they didn't favour Trump. It only means that him knowing about it and being involved in that activity was not PROVEN (again, "not proven" is not the same as "it didn't happen").

3) I don't have "nothing else to say" on the matter at all, Russian "high tech meddling" in Western politics is very real and very interesting as a topic. Their grubby fingerprints are all over UK politics as well, and I assume most other European political events (I can't say I keep informed on those as much as I do the UK and US). However... of course everyone's "gone quiet" about it - we're not in any sort of election period right now in either country so it's not a current event. Sure a general thread on it could be interesting but there are other things going on in the world right now so it's understandable that it's not really a topic of concern? The idea that Trump is magically "coming back as President" before 2024 is purely fantasy and the idea that he's going to run then, let alone win, I find unlikely. Russians will be trying to influence either way. It's not about Trump. I know you find that concept hard to swallow.

[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Where to even start unpacking that one. Trump (and associates) have several traceable links to Russian officials. Russian interference in US and other Western politics is 100% something that happens - I watched the Russian Twitter bots in action with my own eyes during the 2020 US election night - it was fascinating (and worrying).

...

2) This does not mean that Russia didn't interfere - it's widely accepted that they did (and do) try to influence all Western voting events

...

Russian "high tech meddling" in Western politics is very real and very interesting as a topic.

I'm not active disagreeing with this, but to be fuuuurrrrr, the way some people (not you) went on about the alleged interference one might think the Russians had hacked the voting machines or something.

There's only so much influence accounts like TrumpLover74763518 and maga87655 have over the way people decide to vote...

[bots]

People try and simplify things that aren't simple in my opinion

There is all sorts of election interference going on at every level both internally and externally. Russia really don't care who wins, they want to sew discord more than anything else and they did a very good job on that on scottish independence, brexit and the US presidential elections.

Fair elections and referendums are a thing of the past and we need to get used to it, because it's here to stay

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

I'm not active disagreeing with this, but to be fuuuurrrrr, the way some people (not you) went on about the alleged interference one might think the Russians had hacked the voting machines or something.

That's what I was talking about before though - when you actually take a good look at things you'll almost always find the truth somewhere in the middle ground. It'll obviously never be EXACTLY in the middle (as that would also be extreme in its own way) but, it'll be somewhere around there. But the loudest voices come from the fringes which is 70% massive exaggeration... and 29.9% complete and utter nonsense.