[thesheriff443]

Originally Posted by GoldHeart

Bad things can sometimes still happen when you're in the same house ,or watching them . So wouldn't that make you less likely to leave them unsupervised whilst you go out drinking.

This wasn't like the parents were asleep in another room while their kid was snatched under their noses. They were out the building plain and simple.

It’s not to hard to understand
People don’t live their lives waiting for bad things to happen
Bad things do happen but you don’t think they will happen to you and if you do think that way you have a mental illness.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by thesheriff443

It’s not to hard to understand

People don’t live their lives waiting for bad things to happen

Bad things do happen but you don’t think they will happen to you and if you do think that way you have a mental illness.

You have a mental illness if you think something bad could happen if you leave 3 babies alone at night in an unlocked apartment in a foreign country? Babysitters are really cashing in on parents mental illnesses then

[thesheriff443]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

You have a mental illness if you think something bad could happen if you leave 3 babies alone at night in an unlocked apartment in a foreign country? Babysitters are really cashing in on parents mental illnesses then

If a fear of something bad will happen to you and your family that stops you doing normal dad to day stuff then it’s a mental illness

Who is the bad parent those that let their children play outside knowing something bad could happen

Or the. Parent that keep their kids in the house protecting them from the outside world.

Your son does contact sports are you a bad parent for letting him do that knowing he could get hurt.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by thesheriff443

If a fear of something bad will happen to you and your family that stops you doing normal dad to day stuff then it’s a mental illness

Who is the bad parent those that let their children play outside knowing something bad could happen

Or the. Parent that keep their kids in the house protecting them from the outside world.

Your son does contact sports are you a bad parent for letting him do that knowing he could get hurt.

Again just to clarify the above; I agree but while "letting kids play out" is normal behaviour, "Leaving toddlers alone in holiday appartments" is NOT normal behaviour, by the vast majority of people's standards.

[thesheriff443]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Again just to clarify the above; I agree but while "letting kids play out" is normal behaviour, "Leaving toddlers alone in holiday appartments" is NOT normal behaviour, by the vast majority of people's standards.

But take into account the facts people go on holiday to relax and have a good time
You don’t going on holiday thinking your kids are going to be kidnapped or murdered because that is not normal

They made a mistake it was not purposeful neglect

[user104658]

Originally Posted by thesheriff443

But take into account the facts people go on holiday to relax and have a good time
You don’t going on holiday thinking your kids are going to be kidnapped or murdered because that is not normal

They made a mistake it was not purposeful neglect

Criminal negligence has nothing to do with purposeful harm, the basics are;

1) There was a bad outcome
2) It resulted from an action that it can be reasonably said that anyone would know is risky.

I just don't buy that many people don't know that leaving young children alone like that is risky. Any number of things could happen, from a fire to one of them simply wandering off. They weren't even 8-year-olds with some ability at self preservation, Madeleine was the oldest and she was three years old.

Even the "letting kids play out" argument falls apart. Yes it's a good idea to let kids play out. But you wouldn't let a 3 year old play in the street with their 1 year old siblings. It's madness.

[GoldHeart]

Originally Posted by thesheriff443

But take into account the facts people go on holiday to relax and have a good time
You don’t going on holiday thinking your kids are going to be kidnapped or murdered because that is not normal

They made a mistake it was not purposeful neglect

I really don't understand why you continue to defend the Mcanns?. Would you still be as sympathetic ,if it was 2 lower class people on benefits who drink alot? .

Because I bet you anything the child services would have taken away their other 2 children, and considered them Unfit parents.

Yes you don't go on holiday expecting your kids to be kidnapped,but surely you'd be more alert and have your wits about you .

There is no good reason to leave 3 BABIES alone! in a holiday home in a different place . Even if they were back in the UK in their own surroundings it STILL would have been very risky, so why put your children in further danger,it makes no sense.

Which is why I think both parents were selfish & neglectful ,and you'll never persuade me otherwise.

[thesheriff443]

Originally Posted by GoldHeart

I really don't understand why you continue to defend the Mcanns?. Would you still be as sympathetic ,if it was 2 lower class people on benefits who drink alot? .

Because I bet you anything the child services would have taken away their other 2 children, and considered them Unfit parents.

Yes you don't go on holiday expecting your kids to be kidnapped,but surely you'd be more alert and have your wits about you .

There is no good reason to leave 3 BABIES alone! in a holiday home in a different place . Even if they were back in the UK in their own surroundings it STILL would have been very risky, so why put your children in further danger,it makes no sense.

Which is why I think both parents were selfish & neglectful ,and you'll never persuade me otherwise.

This has nothing to do with social status and it’s nothing to do with defending the McCanns

Its looking at the bigger picture, no one on is the perfect parent even if you think you are

This is my last post on this subject because I’m bored with all you lot trying to preach

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by thesheriff443

If a fear of something bad will happen to you and your family that stops you doing normal dad to day stuff then it’s a mental illness



Who is the bad parent those that let their children play outside knowing something bad could happen



Or the. Parent that keep their kids in the house protecting them from the outside world.



Your son does contact sports are you a bad parent for letting him do that knowing he could get hurt.

Leaving babies alone in an unlocked apartment at night while you go out isn't normal behaviour though no matter how you try to spin it.

My son does contact sport yes, most sport is "contact" fun fact he's never been injured (besides a few bruises) while doing martial arts. He spent months in physio after a soccer injury though, his friends who play rugby and GAA are injured regularly.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by thesheriff443

It’s not to hard to understand
People don’t live their lives waiting for bad things to happen
Bad things do happen but you don’t think they will happen to you and if you do think that way you have a mental illness.

This is more about a balance of risks though, the example of allowing kids to do normal kid things "being risky anyway" so why not leave them alone in a holiday appartment.

It's like saying... "Why not walk down the middle of the road? Sure you might get hit by a car - but even if you walk on the pavement, a car might lose control, mount the kerb and hit you anyway."

Like... yes... you might get hit by a care whilst walking down the pavement minding your own business. It happens. That doesn't mean you should stop walking down pavements, it's a normal and acceptable risk... one we accept every day. But it's not comparable to a clearly reckless action like prancing along the middle of the road.

To use another risk example...

You're basically saying "there's nothing wrong with driving whilst drunk - because it's always possible that you'll crash your car anyway even stone cold sober".

Same thing. There's an inherent small risk in driving. Drink driving is reckless.

There's an inherent small risk that a child could be abducted at any time. Leaving them alone like the McCanns did... is reckless.

[thesheriff443]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

This is more about a balance of risks though, the example of allowing kids to do normal kid things "being risky anyway" so why not leave them alone in a holiday appartment.

It's like saying... "Why not walk down the middle of the road? Sure you might get hit by a car - but even if you walk on the pavement, a car might lose control, mount the kerb and hit you anyway."

Like... yes... you might get hit by a care whilst walking down the pavement minding your own business. It happens. That doesn't mean you should stop walking down pavements, it's a normal and acceptable risk... one we accept every day. But it's not comparable to a clearly reckless action like prancing along the middle of the road.

To use another risk example...

You're basically saying "there's nothing wrong with driving whilst drunk - because it's always possible that you'll crash your car anyway even stone cold sober".

Same thing. There's an inherent small risk in driving. Drink driving is reckless.

There's an inherent small risk that a child could be abducted at any time. Leaving them alone like the McCanns did... is reckless.

Doing something that you know is wrong is taking it down another route

[user104658]

Originally Posted by thesheriff443

Doing something that you know is wrong is taking it down another route

...like leaving toddlers alone in an apartment in Portugal to go out drinking with pals. Surely!

[thesheriff443]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

...like leaving toddlers alone in an apartment in Portugal to go out drinking with pals. Surely!

It was a meal not a drinking session and they were checking on the kids throughput the evening

[GoldHeart]

Originally Posted by thesheriff443

It was a meal not a drinking session and they were checking on the kids throughput the evening

It's never sat right with me that they did this, and whether they went for a meal or out partying/ drinking or even out to the theatre to see a play.... they still abandoned their kids...and it's still neglect. You can't leave 3 small kids alone , we're talking baby & toddler age,not adolescent & teenagers.And even then...it would still be a bit irresponsible,but atleast they'd be older .

3 tiny kids are very vulnerable & need full supervision, and I'm not buying that they were able to keep going back & forth to check on them. Why didn't they take the kids with them to the restaurant and check that it's child friendly?, or better still... just leave them back in the UK with a respectable relative or trusted member to fully babysit. I don't understand why you would take your 3 small children on holiday...to then dump them in a apartment in a foreign setting, while you go out for dinner with friends? . Doesn't make sense to me.

And we all know as I've said before...if this was another Karen Mathews type family,then social services would have been all over this !! .

[Glenn.]

Originally Posted by GoldHeart

It's never sat right with me that they did this, and whether they went for a meal or out partying/ drinking or even out to the theatre to see a play.... they still abandoned their kids...and it's still neglect. You can't leave 3 small kids alone , we're talking baby & toddler age,not adolescent & teenagers.And even then...it would still be a bit irresponsible,but atleast they'd be older .

3 tiny kids are very vulnerable & need full supervision, and I'm not buying that they were able to keep going back & forth to check on them. Why didn't they take the kids with them to the restaurant and check that it's child friendly?, or better still... just leave them back in the UK with a respectable relative or trusted member to fully babysit. I don't understand why you would take your 3 small children on holiday...to then dump them in a apartment in a foreign setting, while you go out for dinner with friends? . Doesn't make sense to me.

And we all know as I've said before...if this was another Karen Mathews type family,then social services would have been all over this !! .

Anyone that makes ANY excuse for what they did is vile imo.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

...like leaving toddlers alone in an apartment in Portugal to go out drinking with pals. Surely!

........!!!!

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

........!!!!

The best part is that everyone who arguest this point who has kids themselves, you ask them "Would YOU have done it?" and the answer is invariably "Well... err... no... but..."

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

The best part is that everyone who arguest this point who has kids themselves, you ask them "Would YOU have done it?" and the answer is invariably "Well... err... no... but..."

Of course they wouldn't because it's completely neglectful. Apart from anything else danger wise I wouldn't have done it at the age or even a lot older because if a 3 year old wakes up in the middle of the night and can't find an adult they will be terrified which we already know had happened the previous night and they STILL went out the next night anyway. I'd be thinking, oh my god imagine if Madeleine woke up, went looking for her parents straight out the unlocked patio door and ended up in the pool? I know water and pool safety is a massive thing parents do worry about around young kids, there have been many many tragedies with small children drowning on holiday