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Calderyon · 17-12-2022, 12:06 AM

Gathering the news regarding France, i think Argentina might have the edge now.

Calderyon · 17-12-2022, 12:10 AM

If we disregard that, i think It would have been (and still might) a cagey, mistake avoiding battle ending up in 0-0 or 1-1 after full time and extra time and Argentina winning on penalties.

Mystic Mock · 17-12-2022, 01:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Merry Botmas

I meant England vs USA which ended 0-0, while Netherlands beat them 3-1.

England did not throw that match. If they did USA would have been the winner. And Iran beat Wales in the earlier match.

Senegal v Netherlands was both teams 1st match which is usually a "get accostumed" match. Had the same match being player in KO, it would have probably been Netherlands winning by a larger margin.

I honestly think that England didn't try against the USA because we were confident that we were gonna beat Wales.

And tbh we'll see come the final if England were France's toughest opponents in this World Cup or not, because if Argentina get hammered it'd be very clear that themselves and the teams that they beat to get to the final would not have been competitive against England, Morocco or Poland.

bots · 17-12-2022, 07:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mystic Mock

I honestly think that England didn't try against the USA because we were confident that we were gonna beat Wales.

And tbh we'll see come the final if England were France's toughest opponents in this World Cup or not, because if Argentina get hammered it'd be very clear that themselves and the teams that they beat to get to the final would not have been competitive against England, Morocco or Poland.

you have giant rose tinted glasses on

Mystic Mock · 17-12-2022, 07:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SantaslettertoMeghan

you have giant rose tinted glasses on

Maybe.

I mean I was right that we would be tougher opponents for France than Morocco, it's not exactly out of the realm for us to have come closer to beating France than Argentina.

As I've already said we'll see come Sunday, if Argentina can win the World Cup, or lose on penalties or during ET, then we know that they were truly worthy of making the final.

Because say if France does win by a bigger margin than one goal, my point about England being the second best team becomes true... At least to some extent.

Nicky91 · 17-12-2022, 09:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zizu

Well it won’t be boring …

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

it'll be a boring final

Calderyon · 17-12-2022, 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mystic Mock

I honestly think that England didn't try against the USA because we were confident that we were gonna beat Wales.

And tbh we'll see come the final if England were France's toughest opponents in this World Cup or not, because if Argentina get hammered it'd be very clear that themselves and the teams that they beat to get to the final would not have been competitive against England, Morocco or Poland.

I think you are vastly overrating England and i think they just weren't able to. And if England didn't try, then that's incredibly foolish and idiotic.

At the end of the day, at least Argentina is in the World Cup Final and a potential World Champion while England faced yet again another failure on a major tournament.

Both Argentina and France were worthy of making the Final, England and the others weren't.

Mystic Mock · 17-12-2022, 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Merry Botmas

I think you are vastly overrating England and i think they just weren't able to. And if England didn't try, then that's incredibly foolish and idiotic.

At the end of the day, at least Argentina is in the World Cup Final and a potential World Champion while England faced yet again another failure on a major tournament.

Both Argentina and France were worthy of making the Final, England and the others weren't.

Considering England only narrowly lost to France, and had some bizarre Referee decisions go against us on the day, and smashed a good team like Senegal 3-0 (I know without Mane) but they're still a decent team without him, I find it shocking that we couldn't beat the USA if we really wanted to.

And with Argentina I'm not arguing that they don't deserve to be in the final, I mean Messi and Alvarez have played fantastic, and you can only beat the teams that are in front of you, which unlike England they've achieved that.

I do however personally believe that France will beat Argentina comfortably because I feel that France have already faced tougher opponents, and in general had the tougher draw.

Obviously if Argentina can prove me wrong on that, I'll be the first to compliment them on here.

Nicky91 · 17-12-2022, 05:04 PM

dutch NOS aren't broadcasting tomorrow's final

german channels aren't broadcasting the final either

Swan · 17-12-2022, 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nicky91

dutch NOS aren't broadcasting tomorrow's final

german channels aren't broadcasting the final either

How comes?

Calderyon · 17-12-2022, 08:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mystic Mock

Considering England only narrowly lost to France, and had some bizarre Referee decisions go against us on the day, and smashed a good team like Senegal 3-0 (I know without Mane) but they're still a decent team without him, I find it shocking that we couldn't beat the USA if we really wanted to.

And with Argentina I'm not arguing that they don't deserve to be in the final, I mean Messi and Alvarez have played fantastic, and you can only beat the teams that are in front of you, which unlike England they've achieved that.

I do however personally believe that France will beat Argentina comfortably because I feel that France have already faced tougher opponents, and in general had the tougher draw.

Obviously if Argentina can prove me wrong on that, I'll be the first to compliment them on here.

Fair enough.

But i think you are both vastly overrating England and somewhat underrating Argentina.

France might beat Argentina and be the World Champion (best National team in the World). But even then i think Argentina have done enough to prove that they are at least top 2. They did after all destroy Croatia, last World Cup's Runner ups.

England, not so much. (In this tournament at least). Top 8 at most. I would put Brazil, Netherlands and maybe even Portugal above them (without Ronaldo).

Mystic Mock · 17-12-2022, 11:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Merry Botmas

Fair enough.

But i think you are both vastly overrating England and somewhat underrating Argentina.

France might beat Argentina and be the World Champion (best National team in the World). But even then i think Argentina have done enough to prove that they are at least top 2. They did after all destroy Croatia, last World Cup's Runner ups.

England, not so much. (In this tournament at least). Top 8 at most. I would put Brazil, Netherlands and maybe even Portugal above them (without Ronaldo).

Portugal lost to Morocco who ended up being less competitive against France than England were.

And tbh I don't think that England are amazing by any means, I just feel that away from France, other teams seem significantly behind the pack to me.

In particular with Argentina they scraped a 2-1 win against Australia whilst France annihilated Australia, and I personally feel that England, Poland & Morocco would've all comfortably beaten Australia as well.

Calderyon · 18-12-2022, 04:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mystic Mock

Portugal lost to Morocco who ended up being less competitive against France than England were.

And tbh I don't think that England are amazing by any means, I just feel that away from France, other teams seem significantly behind the pack to me.

In particular with Argentina they scraped a 2-1 win against Australia whilst France annihilated Australia, and I personally feel that England, Poland & Morocco would've all comfortably beaten Australia as well.

You mean Morocco who topped their Group that featured Belgium and Croatia?

The same Morocco who advanced through Spain and Portugal? (Both former champions btw)

And was pretty close to beating last World Cup's Runner ups?

That Morocco?

Also remember that Australia beat last Euros semifinalist, Denmark. And Argentina beat Poland.

Calderyon · 18-12-2022, 04:37 AM

To me the conclusion is:

Argentina and France both deserve their places in the Final as they were the only ones in this years good enough to do it. And they are the top 2 national teams in 2022. Whether they end up losing big or small.

None of the other 30 nations weren't good enough to do it.

Mystic Mock · 18-12-2022, 05:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Merry Botmas

You mean Morocco who topped their Group that featured Belgium and Croatia?

The same Morocco who advanced through Spain and Portugal? (Both former champions btw)

And was pretty close to beating last World Cup's Runner ups?

That Morocco?

Also remember that Australia beat last Euros semifinalist, Denmark. And Argentina beat Poland.

But England would beat Belgium at the moment as well, not because England are better, but because Belgium's players hate each other.

And I'm judging the margin of defeat here, not former legacies.

France won by a one goal margin against England, they beat Morocco by two goals, by that assumption I'm gonna go with that England would've beaten Morocco, Portugal, Spain & Belgium as these three teams lost to Morocco who were less competitive against France than England were, this is a fact from the margin of victory that France displayed against both England & Morocco.

And we were Euro finalists that beat Denmark to get there, so it's not like Australia has achieved something that England didn't also achieve.

Personally while you think that I'm overrating England, I personally feel like you're underrating the team slightly, because England up to this point of the tournament has put up the best fight against France's first team (not counting the reserve team put out against Tunisia) as they'd already qualified by that point.

Mystic Mock · 18-12-2022, 05:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Merry Botmas

To me the conclusion is:

Argentina and France both deserve their places in the Final as they were the only ones in this years good enough to do it. And they are the top 2 national teams in 2022. Whether they end up losing big or small.

None of the other 30 nations weren't good enough to do it.

That's fair I suppose.

If France does win by a large margin though, Kane, Southgate & he who shall not be named will have eyes staring at them over the mistakes made during that match that potentially cost England the World Cup.

Swan · 18-12-2022, 05:09 AM

Yeah, Clad has a good point. You've got France, the holders, no team has ever made back to back finals (i think), and they've had plenty of injuries. Talk about having depth in numbers. Then Argentina, you have to give them all the credit in the world really. They suffered the biggest (arguably) shock defeat in world cup history losing to SA in their first game, bouncing back from that shows immense character. And in the 1/4's, 2 up against the Netherlands with 10 mins left, concede and equaliser in the 100th min, still go on to win.

A script has been written for both sides. I really don't mind who wins. Both teams deserve to be in the final for sure.

Calderyon · 18-12-2022, 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mystic Mock

But England would beat Belgium at the moment as well, not because England are better, but because Belgium's players hate each other.

And I'm judging the margin of defeat here, not former legacies.

France won by a one goal margin against England, they beat Morocco by two goals, by that assumption I'm gonna go with that England would've beaten Morocco, Portugal, Spain & Belgium as these three teams lost to Morocco who were less competitive against France than England were, this is a fact from the margin of victory that France displayed against both England & Morocco.

And we were Euro finalists that beat Denmark to get there, so it's not like Australia has achieved something that England didn't also achieve.

Personally while you think that I'm overrating England, I personally feel like you're underrating the team slightly, because England up to this point of the tournament has put up the best fight against France's first team (not counting the reserve team put out against Tunisia) as they'd already qualified by that point.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mystic Mock

That's fair I suppose.

If France does win by a large margin though, Kane, Southgate & he who shall not be named will have eyes staring at them over the mistakes made during that match that potentially cost England the World Cup.

Margin of win doesn't matter, only wins do.

England didn't win enough games therefore they are out. Deservedly.
Argentina & France did and they deserve to be there in the Final match, England doesn't.

They just weren't good enough this time, otherwise they would be in the Final.

Like in Euro 2020. (2021)