[GoldHeart]

Originally Posted by Liam-

Even trying to compare the trans rights movement to the horrific, historical, systematic abuse and cover ups of the church is actually just braindead

You going to keep pretending there isn't an alarming rise in attention seeking 'trans' people who treat women like garbage? , Whilst demanding respect yet shouting & threatening abuse at others ......When anyone doesn't agree with them they get screamed at "terf terf" , what intelligent conversations they must have with people . Most of them don't even have 'Gender dysphoria ', they just jump on tik tok to get views and to influence little kids to change their bodies,which is pretty scary.

And it is a fair comparison as any pervert will get to children anyway they can . And I hope you practice what you're saying re: "historical cover ups" , because the way things are going with this new trend of sex ed drag & story time drag, don't be surprised if there's a sudden pile of grooming abuse in schools, that's been missed....due to teachers going along with this nonsense in fear of being labelled a 'bigot' , therefore common sense goes out the window.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Liam-

Yes, safeguarding is good, everybody agrees with that point, but safeguarding doesn’t mean restricting maligned groups rights and labelling an entire community as possible sexual deviants, ‘just to be safe’ the way the people you support and look up to are going, it’s going to cause damage far beyond just safeguarding for the general good of safety, it’s going to cause irreparable harm

Women are entitled to safe guarding from men in some instances, you've already seen plenty of examples where relaxing that safe guarding to accommodate and give transwomen extra rights over women can lead to safety & privacy issues and unfairness, women are not acceptable collateral damage to validate transwomens feelings no matter how much you say we are.

[Liam-]

Originally Posted by GoldHeart

You going to keep pretending there isn't an alarming rise in attention seeking 'trans' people who treat women like garbage? , Whilst demanding respect yet shouting & threatening abuse at others ......When anyone doesn't agree with them they get screamed at "terf terf" , what intelligent conversations they must have with people . Most of them don't even have 'Gender dysphoria ', they just jump on tik tok to get views and to influence little kids to change their bodies,which is pretty scary.

And it is a fair comparison as any pervert will get to children anyway they can . And I hope you practice what you're saying re: "historical cover ups" , because the way things are going with this new trend of sex ed drag & story time drag, don't be surprised if there's a sudden pile of grooming abuse in schools, that's been missed....due to teachers going along with this nonsense in fear of being labelled a 'bigot' , therefore common sense goes out the window.

Yes, there are people very angry that there’s a hate movement against an already marginalised demographic, orchestrated by the media and religious fundamentalists, absolutely there are, but there is also a large portion of the anti-trans movement which are just as hateful and spiteful, planning to turn up to a vigil for a dead teenager ti disrupt it because they don’t people paying respects to a trans person, hate and intolerance is a two way street.

And once again, nobody is influencing little kids to change their bodies, read something other than the daily mail please, I’m actually begging you, before you go further down the rabbit hole of conspiracy theories.

If there’s ever a full scale government and trans co-op coverup of abuse, then we can talk about the comparison being legitimate, until then, I won’t converse about things that haven’t happened just because you think gay people are perverts, soz.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Liam-

You’re women so I can’t call your opinions and theories names? But it’s everybody else shielding themselves from scrutiny with their identity, got it

I think you can put your point across without implying I have nothing between my ears yes?

Where have I said that? There are opportunists in every group in the world, there always will be unfortunately, but there also aren’t hate movements against other groups to punish them for the wrong doings of those few people, the anti-trans movement hasn’t been about asking actual legitimate questions for a long time and everybody knows it, so let’s not get on this ‘hijacked movement’ nonsense

I think you can put your point across without implying I have nothing between my ears yes?

You keep mentioning hate, the only hating on anyone is the people who do not care about women's safety in society and look like they want us to live as second class citizens and will not enter to any meaningful discussion to address it

[Liam-]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Women are entitled to safe guarding from men in some instances, you've already seen plenty of examples where relaxing that safe guarding to accommodate and give transwomen extra rights over women can lead to safety & privacy issues and unfairness, women are not acceptable collateral damage to validate transwomens feelings no matter how much you say we are.

Women and children should be protected, absolutely 100% correct, but no matter how hard to try and make yourself or other people believe it, making trans people lives harder and taking away their rights to dignity and comfort, is not going to make women and children any safer from people who want to harm them, it just isn’t

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Liam-

Yes, there are people very angry that there’s a hate movement against an already marginalised demographic, orchestrated by the media and religious fundamentalists, absolutely there are, but there is also a large portion of the anti-trans movement which are just as hateful and spiteful, planning to turn up to a vigil for a dead teenager ti disrupt it because they don’t people paying respects to a trans person, hate and intolerance is a two way street.

And once again, nobody is influencing little kids to change their bodies, read something other than the daily mail please, I’m actually begging you, before you go further down the rabbit hole of conspiracy theories.

If there’s ever a full scale government and trans co-op coverup of abuse, then we can talk about the comparison being legitimate, until then, I won’t converse about things that haven’t happened just because you think gay people are perverts, soz.

TBH it's fine to not want to discuss it so long as you aren't of the ilk who want to stop actual professionals, academics and safeguarding experts from discussing it, and will accept it when there are safeguarding issues identified and measures implemented, rather than applying political pressure for them to be ignored.

Unless we're pretending "that doesn't happen" as well.

[Liam-]

Originally Posted by Cherie

I think you can put your point across without implying I have nothing between my ears yes?

You keep mentioning hate, the only hating on anyone is the people who do not care about women's safety in society and look like they want us to live as second class citizens and will not enter to any meaningful discussion to address it

I said the comparison was braindead, not you personally, but you know that and just like to try and score points, crack on if you want to I guess

Nobody wants people to live like second class citizens, funny though considering every ‘debate’ that happens about this just seems to be had just included straight cis people, no sense of even wanting to hear from trans people, unless of course they agree with them, there’s never an actual balanced debate or discussion about it and that comes from both sides of the aisle

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Liam-

Women and children should be protected, absolutely 100% correct, but no matter how hard to try and make yourself or other people believe it, making trans people lives harder and taking away their rights to dignity and comfort, is not going to make women and children any safer from people who want to harm them, it just isn’t

I don't know Liam, enforcing safe guarding certainly helped the women in that prison in Scotland that "Isla Bryson" was going to be held in, didn't it? Just ask Nicola Sturgeon......

[GoldHeart]

Originally Posted by Liam-

Yes, there are people very angry that there’s a hate movement against an already marginalised demographic, orchestrated by the media and religious fundamentalists, absolutely there are, but there is also a large portion of the anti-trans movement which are just as hateful and spiteful, planning to turn up to a vigil for a dead teenager ti disrupt it because they don’t people paying respects to a trans person, hate and intolerance is a two way street.

And once again, nobody is influencing little kids to change their bodies, read something other than the daily mail please, I’m actually begging you, before you go further down the rabbit hole of conspiracy theories.

If there’s ever a full scale government and trans co-op coverup of abuse, then we can talk about the comparison being legitimate, until then, I won’t converse about things that haven’t happened just because you think gay people are perverts, soz.

This is why the LGBTQ movement will just continue to go backwards. The progressive left will just keep adding extra alphabet soup letters = what is it now LGBTQIAA??, the maps have probably already sneaked into it .. without anything being said about it . There's no addressing of the hijackers, it's always turning a blind eye or instead name calling at anyone who disagrees.

you can't even have a proper discussion with me about the problematic issues. You've already accused me of thinking "gay men are all perverts", and I never said that .

[Liam-]

Originally Posted by GoldHeart

This is why the LGBTQ movement will just continue to go backwards. The progressive left will just keep adding extra alphabet soup letters = what is it now LGBTQIAA??, the maps have probably already sneaked into it .. without anything being said about it . There's no addressing of the hijackers, it's always turning a blind eye or instead bane calling at anyone who disagrees.

you can't even have a proper discussion with me about the problematic issues. You've already accused me of thinking "gay men are all perverts", and I never said that .

I can’t have a proper discussion with you because you spout reactionary nonsense like ‘alphabet soup’ and sex offenders being welcomed into the lgbt fold, it’s complete jibberish you’re reciting because you’ve been told you should be scared of it

[GoldHeart]

Originally Posted by Liam-

I said the comparison was braindead, not you personally, but you know that and just like to try and score points, crack on if you want to I guess

Nobody wants people to live like second class citizens, funny though considering every ‘debate’ that happens about this just seems to be had just included straight cis people, no sense of even wanting to hear from trans people, unless of course they agree with them, there’s never an actual balanced debate or discussion about it and that comes from both sides of the aisle

I'm not a cis woman , I'm a woman. Why is it ok for the movement to call us "cis women" ?.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by GoldHeart

I'm not a cis woman , I'm a woman. Why is it ok for the movement to call us "cis women" ?.

Language demands only swing one way apparently

[Zizu]

I’d be ok with far fewer labels

Hetero / Lesbian / Gay / Trans ..

There are kids with so many different labels to learn that they rarely think or talk about ANYTHING else .. it’s all-consuming .. sod actually trying to get an education!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[Liam-]

Alright, completely avoid the point I made that’s fine, this place is fast turning into mumsnet, it’s actually wild

[GoldHeart]

Originally Posted by Liam-

I can’t have a proper discussion with you because you spout reactionary nonsense like ‘alphabet soup’ and sex offenders being welcomed into the lgbt fold, it’s complete jibberish you’re reciting because you’ve been told you should be scared of it

They keep adding too many letters to it , it was fine at LGBT then ok they added Q but now there's so many letters... it's got a bit silly now.

You know there's some twisted individuals out there just like the priests abusing kids , you know the 'minor attracted person ' are trying to get into the LGBT community, they are justifying their own behaviour by saying they're "not a threat to children" , It's been talked about before on here. The LGBTQ movement should push back harder and speak out against this . I use to hear them speak out against this type of stuff,but it's as if the whole map thing is being ignored again.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Liam-

There’s never an actual balanced debate or discussion about it and that comes from both sides of the aisle

Yes I agree on that and that the hijacking is ultimately on both sides as well. I do see & accept that the most recent, and rather worrying, development is that religious fundamentalists have very much reared their heads in the debate and of course, when it comes down to it, the last thing that group is interested in is women's rights (or anyone elses).

But just as disingenuous individuals use of Trans Rights dogma as protection from scrutiny doesn't mean that all trans people are dangerous, the presence of the hard right and religious groups hopping onto the "other side" doesn't mean that there aren't people with real, valid and reasonable safeguarding concerns.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Soldier Boy

Yes I agree on that and that the hijacking is ultimately on both sides as well. I do see & accept that the most recent, and rather worrying, development is that religious fundamentalists have very much reared their heads in the debate and of course, when it comes down to it, the last thing that group is interested in is women's rights (or anyone elses).

But just as disingenuous individuals use of Trans Rights dogma as protection from scrutiny doesn't mean that all trans people are dangerous, the presence of the hard right and religious groups hopping onto the "other side" doesn't mean that there aren't people with real, valid and reasonable safeguarding concerns.

Yeah agree with that. Matt Walsh is a prime example. JK Rowling however is not, she's always been very much on the left but she's also a survivor of domestic abuse, it make so much sense as to why she'd be concerned about the potential damage to women's rights because of her history yet people pretend that it's more likely she "just hates trans people"

[Liam-]

Originally Posted by Soldier Boy

Yes I agree on that and that the hijacking is ultimately on both sides as well. I do see & accept that the most recent, and rather worrying, development is that religious fundamentalists have very much reared their heads in the debate and of course, when it comes down to it, the last thing that group is interested in is women's rights (or anyone elses).

But just as disingenuous individuals use of Trans Rights dogma as protection from scrutiny doesn't mean that all trans people are dangerous, the presence of the hard right and religious groups hopping onto the "other side" doesn't mean that there aren't people with real, valid and reasonable safeguarding concerns.

The blatantl hypocrisy though is the anti-trans lot wanting lgbt people to publicly condemn all the hijackers and publicly speak out against them and make amends for behaviours that aren’t their own, but absolutely refuse to speak out themselves about the very obvious coattail riders that are the religious nutjobs and outright bigots that are becoming the faces and the voices of the movement, camouflaging as people that have actual concerns, if you’re happy to accept those people into the movement and let them represent you, you have no right to expect the other side to apologise for the fringe people on their side and that’s what’s happening

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Yeah agree with that. Matt Walsh is a prime example.

Kate Forbes (SNP hopeful) is a concern as well, she largely "says the right things" (i.e. that her own religious views and opinions would never affect her decision-making in politics) but I don't believe that can be true for anyone even if she means it -- and on top of that, I just don't trust that she means it.

[GoldHeart]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Yeah agree with that. Matt Walsh is a prime example.

Yes Matt Walsh is more hard right leaning,but everything he said about Dylan Mulvany was correct. And he has kids he wants to protect from all this ideology.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Liam-

The blatantl hypocrisy though is the anti-trans lot wanting lgbt people to publicly condemn all the hijackers and publicly speak out against them and make amends for behaviours that aren’t their own, but absolutely refuse to speak out themselves about the very obvious coattail riders that are the religious nutjobs and outright bigots that are becoming the faces and the voices of the movement, camouflaging as people that have actual concerns, if you’re happy to accept those people into the movement and let them represent you, you have no right to expect the other side to apologise for the fringe people on their side and that’s what’s happening

I mean, that's tribalism and that's unfortunately the world we live in (and possibly just wide-scale human nature). I don't disagree but that's why I wish the activities and debates of academics and professionals could be left separate to the mind-numbing rabble of the proletariat press.

Unfortunately the Social Media generation means that enough dumb voices shouting in unison about wanting "everything right now" (or alternatively, "nothing at all to change ever") can over-ride a handful of thoughtful, intelligent thinkers who are genuinely seeking careful, considered progress in a reasonable timeframe.

[Crimson Dynamo]

at the end of the day we have major 2 concerns here

1. why was a man dressed up as a sexualized caricature of a woman allowed into a school to abuse children with lies and inappropriate sexual material? WHat adult teacher agreed this?

2. Why did a man want to dress as a sexualized caricature of a woman and talk to children about adult sexual matters?

[Liam-]

Originally Posted by GoldHeart

Yes Matt Walsh is more hard right leaning,but everything he said about Dylan Mulvany was correct. And he has kids he wants to protect from all this ideology.

Yeah, the man that says girls should be having babies below the age of consent because that’s when they’re the most verile, definitely wants to protect kids

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Liam-

I said the comparison was braindead, not you personally, but you know that and just like to try and score points, crack on if you want to I guess

Nobody wants people to live like second class citizens, funny though considering every ‘debate’ that happens about this just seems to be had just included straight cis people, no sense of even wanting to hear from trans people, unless of course they agree with them, there’s never an actual balanced debate or discussion about it and that comes from both sides of the aisle

I have said time and time again that the trans community should speak about against the likes of Isla Bryson as he is tarnishing them...maybe they have?

[GoldHeart]

Originally Posted by Soldier Boy

Kate Forbes (SNP hopeful) is a concern as well, she largely "says the right things" (i.e. that her own religious views and opinions would never affect her decision-making in politics) but I don't believe that can be true for anyone even if she means it -- and on top of that, I just don't trust that she means it.

Well do you want Kate Forbes to do what Theresa May & Tim Farron did and backpedal their views to please people?? . Hardly genuine is it .

I would say Kate Forbes should focus more on education and other political issues, if she has conviction in her decisions and doesn't crumble then she might actually be a stronger leader than Nicole Sturgeon. But we'll see .